Fletcher Loyer

[mathboy]

I wouldn't think having your offense being run through the low post is the type of offense a highly ranked point guard would want to play in.

Purdue has focused on bringing in centers to be the focal point of the offense. The only year that it wasn't the case was Carsen's jr. year. Nothing wrong with that but it's the path Painter has chosen.

I just cannot find the logic to draw any of these conclusions. Just stop. Sorry, but you and Wooly are pumping this 2+2=7,690 stuff, that doesn’t really add up. These five star PG’s that don’t want to come to Purdue are no different than all those five star small forwards, power forwards, five star shooting guards or centers that don’t come to Purdue.

We don’t usually recruit any five stars to any positions so saying the motion offense does or doesn’t affect five star PG’s is really not well grounded. We just can’t afford them.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

I thought the top ten was aggressive. I’d give IU 20-25 all day. Good roster coming back but got boat raced by St Mary’s in their last game. Purdue lost prior to this year to North Texas and had a top 10 preseason team, so I get the idea there. Added some high end players. The big guy will sit behind TJD while the guard starts immediately.

I wish IU would’ve kept Archie. Probably better off under Woodson. Definitely a better defensive team. I’d be happy this year if Purdue split. I still think it’s close in the Big10 ranks between us. I would expect us both around 3-6.

Loyer is a good player. I hope he can be like Guy from Virginia some day. Maybe in the same mold. We will see if he can become that good.

Berg might surprise you a bit. Looks like he can shoot and play on the perimeter. Teske might be a fair comp. We will see. He probably is a RS.

Smith may be similar to Bohannon offensively but I expect him to be a fiery competitor. He won’t jump off the page athletically, but he’s a very good shooter.

Heide had some injuries. I think he was a really good shooter and had some dunks. Had trouble staying healthy, but has some upside.

Bohannon has some size and skill set commonalities with Smith. And pre-injuries Bohannon was a true point guard.

Maybe Bohannon was an outlier in that he over performed expectations as a freshman (he was ranked about 300 and good right away) but if Purdue could get that kind of value out of Smith it’d be a grand slam home run. More often than not players are ranked lower for a good reason, but the comp is pretty solid IMO.

Also, it’s excellent to see this board have a thread that discusses basketball with disagreements and no insults…glad to be part of it!

 

[boilerball2021]

I just cannot find the logic to draw any of these conclusions. Just stop. Sorry, but you and Wooly are pumping this 2+2=7,690 stuff, that doesn’t really add up. These five star PG’s that don’t want to come to Purdue are no different than all those five star small forwards, power forwards, five star shooting guards or centers that don’t come to Purdue.

We don’t usually recruit any five stars to any positions so saying the motion offense does or doesn’t affect five star PG’s is really not well grounded. We just can’t afford them.

We recruit 5 stars all the time. We don’t land them, but we recruit them. You are correct that it isn’t just a PG thing.

 

[ehuffma1]

Bohannon has some size and skill set commonalities with Smith. And pre-injuries Bohannon was a true point guard.

Maybe Bohannon was an outlier in that he over performed expectations as a freshman (he was ranked about 300 and good right away) but if Purdue could get that kind of value out of Smith it’d be a grand slam home run. More often than not players are ranked lower for a good reason, but the comp is pretty solid IMO.

Also, it’s excellent to see this board have a thread that discusses basketball with disagreements and no insults…glad to be part of it!

Smith is a shooter like Bohannon. I think Smith had an extremely high free throw percentage in HS and very good from 3 pointers as well. I’m not sure how it translates but i think he could be good at Purdue. I just don’t know how soon.

Loyer is an excellent shooter as well. He won some kind of National competition, but nobody was guarding him. It will be much harder to get clean looks in college, but he might end up being another Sasha. We all hope he has more guard skills.

I have a lot of friends that like IU. I enjoy friendly conversation. No doubt IU will be a preseason darling in the Big10 as will Michigan. I would think that Wisconsin, Iowa and Purdue will want a piece of all of them. We can all agree that Illinois is annoying and we hope they lose. Enjoy!

 

[buffboiler]

could have the worst backcourt in the Big Ten. Hope not.. but imho the frontcourt better be scoring 60 points a game.

That would mean the Boilers will score 100 points nights in and nights out..

Love it!

Boiler Up!!

 

[buffboiler]

Loyer's and Kramer's games have nothing in common.

They both are guys that you hate to be on your opponents, but love to have on your team.
Not the same style of players, but "THAT' dude annoyingly good for your team.
Fletcher is a very smart player and how to get the bucket in many ways.

 

[buffboiler]

All of the top 50 4/5 star point guards (admitedly there are not many to begin with) don't want to play for Painter.

Wrong!!
We have a guy coming next year, Dravyn Gibbs-Lawhorn ranked at 50 rivals/48 by 247 composite

Boiler Up!

 

[SCBoiler1]

Top 50 aren't

I just cannot find the logic to draw any of these conclusions. Just stop. Sorry, but you and Wooly are pumping this 2+2=7,690 stuff, that doesn’t really add up. These five star PG’s that don’t want to come to Purdue are no different than all those five star small forwards, power forwards, five star shooting guards or centers that don’t come to Purdue.

We don’t usually recruit any five stars to any positions so saying the motion offense does or doesn’t affect five star PG’s is really not well grounded. We just can’t afford them.

Top 50 aren't all five stars. Swanigan, Furst, TKR, JJ, Eatwann all top 50ish top guys. Many top 100 guys and yes we've had great success at the off guard position in recent years but I don't think you want to argue that the level of talent recruited at the point guard position is anywhere close to the talent Painter has recruited at the other 4 positions. If you made a list of the top 15 or 20 players who have played for Purdue under Painter, Lew Jack, would probably be the only PG on the list.

Gibbs will probably end up being top 50 so I hope he proves that a dynamic point guard can flourish in Painter's system.

 

[SCBoiler1]

They both are guys that you hate to be on your opponents, but love to have on your team.
Not the same style of players, but "THAT' dude annoyingly good for your team.
Fletcher is a very smart player and how to get the bucket in many ways.

Kramer was a great competitor and played incredible defense but was limited on offense. His skill set fit in perfectly with the baby Boilers that had plenty of scorers. Next year we're going to need someone at the guard position to score. I think Loyer and Newman are the prime candidates. I believe we need a Mathias more than we need a Kramer next year especially if Smith or Morton is starting at point guard.

 

[Roeder]

I don't think people have yet to give enough respects for
this incoming tandem of Braden Smith and Fletcher Loyer.

I really like what they are bringing to the team this year.
These two will make a nice tandem of Chris Kramer/Aaron Craft Part Deux.
Two you would just hate if on opposing team, but falling in love if on your team.
Imaging them playing on the same team..

For four years!!

Boiler Up!!

I agree that this duo could eventually be a thorn in the side of the B1G. I don't know if Purdue has ever had 2 shooters this good in the same class? Both can shoot off the dribble, and curling off screens already. Braden has deeeeep range. Both have quick, efficient releases. What has me excited is they are both extremely more skilled than the typical Sasha, Cline, Mathias mold that fill the shooter role for Purdue. Of course Loyer getting minutes at PG is not ideal, but the fact the staff even thinks he can do it in spot duty is an attribute to his above average dribbling and passing skills as a 2.

Next year they will likely take some lumps as there are serious questions about how they both can hang physically in the B1G. Down the road though Purdue might have its own version of the splash brothers. Obviously not the same talent level, but seeing how Curry and Thompson mesh as a highly skilled backcourt is the same fit Purdue could see with these guys dribbling off screens into 3s, or off screens into the lane for a pull-up or making the right read and hitting an open teammate. They have the potential to be very fun to watch grow playing together.

 

[bonefish1]

Building on my last comment, dare I say it......all these incoming freshman seem to have a high "basketball IQ", a love for the game and a drive to be better. This is where Purdue has thrived. Painter brings is players that want to get better and have that drive. We can go back, but recent list includes: Carson, Ivey, Williams, Edey.....etc.

I look at a player like TJD for IU. He is the exact same player he was coming out of high school. His skill set has not changed or developed. When he was a freshman, I thought to myself....if he works on his game and can develop an jump shot or 3pt shot, he will be a lottery pick. But, 3 years in and he is still the same.

The dreaded 'basketball IQ" curse....

 

[bonefish1]

Will love it when Smith comes in and shows the B1G what he can do especially when I continue to see comments like this. Would not surprise me (as long as he heals peoperly)if he isn't an All Frosh B10 kid. He is just a warrior that could shock alot of people.

I don't look for minutes from Berg and Heide. As one, Berg, surely will RS or maybe even both might RS.

5'10, 165# PG coming off injury, who aren't considered elite in any aspect, don't usually shock people.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong and get to eat a giant helping of crow, but I think he'll look decent to good against the cupcakes preconf, then struggle big time in conf.
I think coaches will do what they did to IT, which is press him the whole way down the court, make him uncomfortable and force him into a bad decision.

 

[bonefish1]

I wouldn't think having your offense being run through the low post is the type of offense a highly ranked point guard would want to play in.

Purdue has focused on bringing in centers to be the focal point of the offense. The only year that it wasn't the case was Carsen's jr. year. Nothing wrong with that but it's the path Painter has chosen.

Guards win in March.

 

[Boiler Buck]

5'10, 165# PG coming off injury, who aren't considered elite in any aspect, don't usually shock people.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong and get to eat a giant helping of crow, but I think he'll look decent to good against the cupcakes preconf, then struggle big time in conf.
I think coaches will do what they did to IT, which is press him the whole way down the court, make him uncomfortable and force him into a bad decision.

Could be. Physically he isn't IT. But iu guys are acting like on some boards like he doesnt belong on a B10 court. Hope he soundly proves them wrong.

If he isn't by far 100% by Nov. 1, scratch everything I have said.

 

[BoilerDeac]

what does it say when an ncoming recruit admits publically that we seem to be weak at the Pg position? and that he admits he's a shooter , but is willing to try to be a PG ? When are we going to sto p recruiting combo guards and shooters, and start recruiting PGs that can distribute the ball and be a floor general?

We can't even use that good old recruiting tool of immediate playing time to attract a transfer PG. What is it about Purdue that true PGs hate and don't want to be a part of ???

a true PG could easily get 8-10 assists a game with the other shooters on this team. As Tina turner would say: we don't need another shooter. what's beyond the Thunder sweet 16?

"easily get 8-10 assists a game" is an overstatement. This isn't the NBA.

 

[meenie]

If your worried about smith or Loyer feeding the post, you have obviously never seen either play. Great shooters and passers. Everybody needs to chill about the point. Between Morton, smith and Loyer, we’re fine. I just like that all can shoot, unlike hunter or Nojel

 

[boilerball2021]

Top 50 aren't

Top 50 aren't all five stars. Swanigan, Furst, TKR, JJ, Eatwann all top 50ish top guys. Many top 100 guys and yes we've had great success at the off guard position in recent years but I don't think you want to argue that the level of talent recruited at the point guard position is anywhere close to the talent Painter has recruited at the other 4 positions. If you made a list of the top 15 or 20 players who have played for Purdue under Painter, Lew Jack, would probably be the only PG on the list.

Gibbs will probably end up being top 50 so I hope he proves that a dynamic point guard can flourish in Painter's system.

I think you are both kind of right here. @mathboy is correct that it's not like we are stacking highly ranked recruits at other positions, and you are correct that we get talent at other positions more frequently than we do the PG position.

*Including Combo Guard Rankings*

Braden Smith - 194
Ethan Morton - 103
IT - 211
Eric Hunter - 150
Nojel Eastern - 69
Grant Weatherford (LOL) - 379
PJ Thompson - 354
Bryson Scott - 96
Ronnie Johnson - 87
Terone Johnson - 71
Lewis Jackson - 116
Keaton Grant - 123

So there was a stretch where Painter landed 3 top 100 PGs in a row.... It also lead to the dark years. After that Painter said he changed his recruiting philosophy to be about fit. I believe recruiting lower ranked players that are a better fit raises the floor, but it also lowers the roof.

 

[boilerball2021]

Could be. Physically he isn't IT. But iu guys are acting like on some boards like he doesnt belong on a B10 court. Hope he soundly proves them wrong.

If he isn't by far 100% by Nov. 1, scratch everything I have said.

What are your expectations of him if he is 100% at the beginning of the season?

 

[boilerball2021]

If your worried about smith or Loyer feeding the post, you have obviously never seen either play. Great shooters and passers. Everybody needs to chill about the point. Between Morton, smith and Loyer, we’re fine. I just like that all can shoot, unlike hunter or Nojel

Hunter isn't a shooter? He lead the team in 3 point percentage last year at 44%. He shot 51% from 3 over the last 18 games. Morton, Smith, and Loyer won't come close to that next year.

 

[SCBoiler1]

5'10, 165# PG coming off injury, who aren't considered elite in any aspect, don't usually shock people.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong and get to eat a giant helping of crow, but I think he'll look decent to good against the cupcakes preconf, then struggle big time in conf.
I think coaches will do what they did to IT, which is press him the whole way down the court, make him uncomfortable and force him into a bad decision.

He's also not going to have much help breaking the press (as a freshmen) which is just going to complicate things. Newman and Morton may end up positively surprising people but I don't think ball handling is either of their strong suit.

 

[Boiler Buck]

What are your expectations of him if he is 100% at the beginning of the season?

IF he can play B10 level D, then quite a bit as he is very offensively talented. I just do not know if he can D it up on a B10 level. That is the wild card for all Purdue Frosh....same with Loyer. Both these kids have to show it on the defensive side. That is what I will be watching. But excited for both long term as Boilers.

 

[boilerball2021]

IF he can play B10 level D, then quite a bit as he is very offensively talented. I just do not know if he can D it up on a B10 level. That is the wild card for all Purdue Frosh....same with Loyer. Both these kids have to show it on the defensive side. That is what I will be watching. But excited for both long term as Boilers.

What are you expecting from him offensively? Most freshmen don't perform well offensively. Low ranked freshmen even less so.

 

[mathboy]

I'm just say


All of the top 50 4/5 star point guards (admitedly there are not many to begin with) don't want to play for Painter.

so i ask, WHY ???? Is it the motion offense? is it they don't get a chance to showcase their talents? is it they hate West lafayette? What is it tha t drives them away?

the only logical answer i could come up with is that a pure point guard must not like playing in painter's offense. You tell me, is there a different reason ?

What I'm saying is that the "top 50" issue is more than point guards. You are taking one aspect of our recruiting and using that as your arguement's key proof. That is not valid logic. In fact it is really intellectually dishonest and I hope you know it. You should be smarter than that.

You could have easily said that no top 50 forwards want to play in Painter's motion offense, or no top 50 2-guards don't... etc. That's because we haven't recriuited ANY top-50 guys at ANY of those positions. It has nothing to do with the motion offense and point guards. It has to do with our ability to recruit top-50 guys. Lots of good teams with top-50 guys run motion. Painter's motion offense isn't the issue.

 

[johnboiler123]

Top 50 aren't

Top 50 aren't all five stars. Swanigan, Furst, TKR, JJ, Eatwann all top 50ish top guys. Many top 100 guys and yes we've had great success at the off guard position in recent years but I don't think you want to argue that the level of talent recruited at the point guard position is anywhere close to the talent Painter has recruited at the other 4 positions. If you made a list of the top 15 or 20 players who have played for Purdue under Painter, Lew Jack, would probably be the only PG on the list.

Gibbs will probably end up being top 50 so I hope he proves that a dynamic point guard can flourish in Painter's system.

Swanigan was a top 20 rated 5 star.

 

[johnboiler123]

Could be. Physically he isn't IT. But iu guys are acting like on some boards like he doesnt belong on a B10 court. Hope he soundly proves them wrong.

If he isn't by far 100% by Nov. 1, scratch everything I have said.

To be fair we really don't know if he belongs on a court with other big ten players at this point. IMO Thompson didn't. Smith had zero other p5 offers besides Purdue. It's not unreasonable to be skeptical about him. Painter also has a poor history of recruiting point guards, so I don't really give him the benefit of the doubt in recruiting that position as I do with centers.

 

[Roeder]

If your worried about smith or Loyer feeding the post, you have obviously never seen either play. Great shooters and passers. Everybody needs to chill about the point. Between Morton, smith and Loyer, we’re fine. I just like that all can shoot, unlike hunter or Nojel

Yeah, it would ideally be nice to add another mid major guard or two just for depth purposes obviously at this point. However, Smith, Morton, and Loyer are all skilled enough to do what Purdue needs to initiate offense. It will just be an unorthodox way of doing it by committee since all the high impact PGs appear to be off the board. Defense is the biggest question for me. Who knows though, some of the best defensive teams every year do not have the athletes but are connected. Last years team had the athletes, but was never connected. Maybe this year will be different as a unit?

I think we'll see bigger lineups with Waddell, Kaufman, or Heide getting some minutes at the the 3. Kaufman sat out a year to work on being a 3. If he's capable it changes everything IMO because it gets another scorer on the floor. Morton will be a Swiss army knife wherever he's needed. This team will have some interchangeable parts that Purdue teams haven't had before.

PG - Smith/Morton/Loyer
SG - Newman/Loyer/Morton
SF - Kaufman/Morton/Wadell/Heide
PF - Gillis/Furst/Kaufman/Heide
C - Edey/Furst/Berg

 

[SCBoiler1]

I think you are both kind of right here. @mathboy is correct that it's not like we are stacking highly ranked recruits at other positions, and you are correct that we get talent at other positions more frequently than we do the PG position.

*Including Combo Guard Rankings*

Braden Smith - 194
Ethan Morton - 103
IT - 211
Eric Hunter - 150
Nojel Eastern - 69
Grant Weatherford (LOL) - 379
PJ Thompson - 354
Bryson Scott - 96
Ronnie Johnson - 87
Terone Johnson - 71
Lewis Jackson - 116
Keaton Grant - 123

So there was a stretch where Painter landed 3 top 100 PGs in a row.... It also lead to the dark years. After that Painter said he changed his recruiting philosophy to be about fit. I believe recruiting lower ranked players that are a better fit raises the floor, but it also lowers the roof.

Thanks for doing this.

Terone Johnson wasn't a point guard as he played with Lew Jack and his brother.

With that in mind. This list confirms that Lew Jack was probably the only one that really excelled in Painter's system. There isn't a guy on this list that ever made an All B1G team. Not really that impressive 17 years in.

Again Painter has had some great players over the years. They just haven't played point guard. It just is what it is.

 

[SCBoiler1]

To be fair we really don't know if he belongs on a court with other big ten players at this point. IMO Thompson didn't. Smith had zero other p5 offers besides Purdue. It's not unreasonable to be skeptical about him. Painter also has a poor history of recruiting point guards, so I don't really give him the benefit of the doubt in recruiting that position as I do with centers.

What I can't get over is that people dismiss the fact that Painter has publicly stated that we needed a guard from the transfer portal. Why would he be saying that if he was comfortable with what he has? He was even saying that before IT and Hunter chose to leave.

 

[bonefish1]

If your worried about smith or Loyer feeding the post, you have obviously never seen either play. Great shooters and passers. Everybody needs to chill about the point. Between Morton, smith and Loyer, we’re fine. I just like that all can shoot, unlike hunter or Nojel

Did you think we were 'fine' at the point last year with IT and EH?

 

[meenie]

Hunter didn’t score a point against St. Peter’s or at iu. Enough said. Dreadful.

 

[johnboiler123]

What I can't get over is that people dismiss the fact that Painter has publicly stated that we needed a guard from the transfer portal. Why would he be saying that if he was comfortable with what he has? He was even saying that before IT and Hunter chose to leave.

We really need anyone we can get just for depth purposes at this point. Completely unacceptable for a coach in his 18th year to be going into the season with only 4 guards on the roster. None of which to look to be high impact players.

 

[bonefish1]

What I'm saying is that the "top 50" issue is more than point guards. You are taking one aspect of our recruiting and using that as your arguement's key proof. That is not valid logic. In fact it is really intellectually dishonest and I hope you know it. You should be smarter than that.

You could have easily said that no top 50 forwards want to play in Painter's motion offense, or no top 50 2-guards don't... etc. That's because we haven't recriuited ANY top-50 guys at ANY of those positions. It has nothing to do with the motion offense and point guards. It has to do with our ability to recruit top-50 guys. Lots of good teams with top-50 guys run motion. Painter's motion offense isn't the issue.

The issue is Painter's inability to close the deal on these top 50 kids with any consistency.

It's 97% on the coach, the other 3% is stuff like facilities, TV, etc.

 

[bonefish1]

Yeah, it would ideally be nice to add another mid major guard or two just for depth purposes obviously at this point. However, Smith, Morton, and Loyer are all skilled enough to do what Purdue needs to initiate offense. It will just be an unorthodox way of doing it by committee since all the high impact PGs appear to be off the board. Defense is the biggest question for me. Who knows though, some of the best defensive teams every year do not have the athletes but are connected. Last years team had the athletes, but was never connected. Maybe this year will be different as a unit?

I think we'll see bigger lineups with Waddell, Kaufman, or Heide getting some minutes at the the 3. Kaufman sat out a year to work on being a 3. If he's capable it changes everything IMO because it gets another scorer on the floor. Morton will be a Swiss army knife wherever he's needed. This team will have some interchangeable parts that Purdue teams haven't had before.

PG - Smith/Morton/Loyer
SG - Newman/Loyer/Morton
SF - Kaufman/Morton/Wadell/Heide
PF - Gillis/Furst/Kaufman/Heide
C - Edey/Furst/Berg

It'll be interesting to see what happens when a team with big strong guards decides to press. We're gonna struggle against a team like Rutgers, or even iu.

 

[boilerball2021]

Hunter didn’t score a point against St. Peter’s or at iu. Enough said. Dreadful.

Morton didn't score a point in either game vs IU and also didn't score vs St. Peter's. There were 14 games on the year where he scored 0 points. 8 of those 14 games he played more than 10 minutes.

So I'm guessing you have a poor view on Morton as well.

 

[boilerball2021]

The issue is Painter's inability to close the deal on these top 50 kids with any consistency.

It's 97% on the coach, the other 3% is stuff like facilities, TV, etc.

This is no longer accurate. NIL a good portion of recruiting now.

 

[johnboiler123]

Morton didn't score a point in either game vs IU and also didn't score vs St. Peter's. There were 14 games on the year where he scored 0 points. 8 of those 14 games he played more than 10 minutes.

So I'm guessing you have a poor view on Morton as well.

Crazy how unproductive Morton has been considering how highly recruited he was out of HS. So far has been a bust. Don't see him being more than a backup level player. IMO our only saving grace at guard next year is that Newman has at least showed potential to be a big time scorer, though I don't think it will happen with any consistency. Loyer will turn into that typical Painter 3 point specialist that can help us win a lot of games, but it takes 2-3 years before he gets there. I'm just hoping smith isn't completely overwhelmed being on a court with big ten players.

 

[Boiler Buck]

What are you expecting from him offensively? Most freshmen don't perform well offensively. Low ranked freshmen even less so.

D likely keeps him off floor.
If he is 100% & can D, just outside of the all B10 frosh team.

 

[boilerball2021]

D likely keeps him off floor.
If he is 100% & can D, just outside of the all B10 frosh team.

He's our starting PG.... He is going to play a lot of minutes regardless of how good he is offensively or defensively.

I'd put his ceiling at IT freshman year and floor at Eric Hunter freshman year.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Hunter isn't a shooter? He lead the team in 3 point percentage last year at 44%. He shot 51% from 3 over the last 18 games. Morton, Smith, and Loyer won't come close to that next year.

Hunter shot well the latter half of the season, but I think it's fair to say he isn't a "shooter" in the same mold as a Sasha, Cline, Mathias, or even a Kendall Stephens.

Basically all of Hunter's three pointers were wide open looks.

Also, 3P% can be a bit misleading because it doesn't take into account volume or whether or not the shot was wide open or contested.

 

[boilerball2021]

Hunter shot well the latter half of the season, but I think it's fair to say he isn't a "shooter" in the same mold as a Sasha, Cline, Mathias, or even a Kendall Stephens.

Basically all of Hunter's three pointers were wide open looks.

Also, 3P% can be a bit misleading because it doesn't take into account volume or whether or not the shot was wide open or contested.

Last year in conference play he was 4th on the team in makes at 23. He shot 53.5% from 3 in conference. Gillis shot 45% with 28 makes. Ivey shot 31% with 29 makes. Sasha shot 37% with 47 makes.

The post I replied to stated Morton, Smith, and Loyer were all shooters and that Hunter was not.