2022/2023 Team Roster
- Thread starter mathboy
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I imagine he could be the BIG's next great wing. Why not? TKR is cut in the same mold as Keegan Murray.
This might sound a little off but this is the best news I've heard coming from Purdue basketball all off season. I would assume the post would have Painter's blessing and certainly indicates that TKR will be given an opportunity to play the three.
If TKR can play the three at a the same level as Vince Edwards (let alone Keegan Murray) did his sophomore year, it puts Purdue as a contender in the B1G IMO. Vince played the three once Biggie came in and averaged 11.3 points and 5.4 rebounds, 2,9 assist per game his sophomore year and shot 40% from three.
That's a big if, but it would relieve a lot of congestion at the 4 spot and would help solve a lot of short comings we have in the backcourt.
I'm excited to see this kid play. I'm reserved on my expectations, just want to see him play and succeed.
I would agree that when you have a player his size with guard skills that is an asset.
However, I don't see the congestion at the 4 spot. There are basically 2 other guys on the roster who can legitimately play the position, one of which can also move over to the 5, which has one proven guy who can play ~25 minutes. Contrast that with the guys who are limited by size and skill set to playing the 2 or 3 (which are interchangeable), I count up to 5 bodies there.
Robbie and Vince had these skills and both spent a lot of time at the 4, which created mismatches. Seems to me if we have the guard positions adequately covered, having a dynamic player at the 4 spot tends to correlate with some of Painter's better teams (2009-10, 2017-18).
Regardless, 3 or 4, this is a good thing.
In my view Edey and Gillis were better than any of our returners in the backcourt last year and Furst was as good. Because of his reputation out of high school many of us have high expectations for TKR. Its quite possible that these 4 guys will be the best 4 guys on the team next year.
Between the 4 and the 5, you have 80 minutes. Assuming Edey can only play 25 (I think he could play a few more) that leaves 55 minutes for Furst, Gillis and TKR.
Assuming Furst gets 15 minutes at the 5 and 10 at the four that only would leave 30 minutes for Gillis and TKR to split. For reference, Gillis averaged 25 minutes per game in conference. Unless Gillis or TKR can play some three, their minutes will be limited.
That's a solid analysis. There are multiple ways to approach the minutes. I believe for this team to be successful, one or two of the guards need to take a big step forward. While you are looking at TKR to rise up, others are looking at Newman.
I start from a position where Newman gets 30 mpg. Then also assume Jenkins and Morton get 25 mpg. Those 3 guys are your experience base in the back court, and IMO you need that 80 mpg minimum between the 3 of them. Last year, between Ivey, Sasha, and Hunter the number was 88 mpg.
That leaves 40 mpg for Loyer, Smith, Waddell, and Heide. Say Heide redshirts along with Berg. And assume Loyer and Smith get about 12-15 mpg apiece. I think Smith will play out of necessity due to a lack of primary ball handlers. And everyone is raving about Loyer's shooting, which will be a valuable commodity after the loss of our top 3 shooters. That leaves 10-16 minutes.
To me, Waddell is the wild card. Of the remaining 10-16 minutes, does he fill that or does he sit and watch TKR slide over to the 3 as suggested by your analysis? Which guy will be better suited to play and guard the wing?
The only part I might question is that if TKR truly is/was a top 50 recruit, he should be not only a major contributor but a star in his second year at Purdue. He's the 4th rated recruit in the Painter era. If he can't get minutes that's pretty disappointing.
One thing is for sure: some guys are going to surprise us, for better or worse… hopefully more for better. I’m hopeful for all these players to be improved and confident going into the season. And yeah, since we lost our x-factor guard, I hope another player ascends to become special (in addition to Edey who already is)… TKR seems like a good candidate.
If TKR comes into full bloom the only question is whose minutes does he take. I think he will be the primary backup to Gillis to begin the year and then likely eats into his minutes as things progress. Whether he slides over to the 3 for even more minutes IMO depends on matchups and how our young wings are holding up. Ultimately we could see TKR simply overtake Gillis. Which shouldn't come as a surprise if it happens. As you suggest, it's a top 50 recruit vs. top 200ish.
Gillis was hurt his senior year which led to the lower ranking. I missed that he led New Castle to the Little League World Series. He is a competitor and helped us win some big games last year. We need one of them to be at the wing spot at times.
You might be putting too much stock in these high school rankings, and too little in a year of BIG experience. Over the years, the rankings have predicted some good players, but they miss more often than they hit.
I don't have the time or interest, but I wonder if we looked at the top 50 players out of high school two years ago, and mapped out how they did, how many were "busts" and how many were "stars". Where did they go? Are they still on the team? How did the team do? Why am I questioning rankings? Well if you look to the raw numbers, there were only 16 teams that made the sweet sixteen last year, yet there were theoretically 200 "top 50 kids" playing (counting 4 classes possible). That means a whole lot of those top 50 did not make a significant impact on their team's success.
I've got a feeling that Gillis is going to be hard to move out of the starting line up. Then again, last year, after TRK got healthy, the other players called him a "scoring machine". This next season is going to be very interesting.
Full quote with emphasis added:You might be putting too much stock in these high school rankings, and too little in a year of BIG experience. Over the years, the rankings have predicted some good players, but they miss more often than they hit.
I don't have the time or interest, but I wonder if we looked at the top 50 players out of high school two years ago, and mapped out how they did, how many were "busts" and how many were "stars". Where did they go? Are they still on the team? How did the team do? Why am I questioning rankings? Well if you look to the raw numbers, there were only 16 teams that made the sweet sixteen last year, yet there were theoretically 200 "top 50 kids" playing (counting 4 classes possible). That means a whole lot of those top 50 did not make a significant impact on their team's success.
I've got a feeling that Gillis is going to be hard to move out of the starting line up. Then again, last year, after TRK got healthy, the other players called him a "scoring machine". This next season is going to be very interesting.
"Ultimately we could see TKR simply overtake Gillis. Which shouldn't come as a surprise if it happens. As you suggest, it's a top 50 recruit vs. top 200ish."
We were discussing minutes TKR might get if he achieves the level of a top 50 player. Does he become a full time '3' or overtake an experienced Gillis? None of that is taken for granted by me, but in hindsight it would make sense given their projected potential.
Yeah, I'm hoping TKR gets a good opportunity to shine. Seems to me they're very different players bringing different strengths. Gillis isn't going to put up big numbers. But he'll likely continue to be a great support player (rebounds, defense, knocking down open shots). Hopefully TKR brings some aggressive wing play (drive to the basket, hitting mid-range shots) that maybe Gillis doesn't bring to the table...
Here's yet another wrinkle...is it possible could we see both Gillis and TKR on the floor together? If Gillis works on his lateral speed and ball handling during the off-season, I don't see why he couldn't play spot minutes at the 3. He can already shoot well enough and defend the small forward position, but he needs to take that next step.
I fully expect TKR to fluidly swap between the two positions. If Gillis is able to as well, that would be a huge plus for the team. Flexibility is key.
Just imagine the rebounding prowess of a Gillis/TKR/Edey combo...
In light of Brian's interview with TKR recently I would expect to see some Furst at C, Gillis at PF and TKR at SF on the floor together. And then there's Zachen too. I'm really stoked about our front court.
I kinda think a TKR/Gillis/Furst Combo might be the highest upside rebounding unit
we're going to be pretty solid in the frontcourt, the backcourt is where we're going to have problems.
Some might agree to this, but until we give the players who can play point a shot, we don't know anymore than what we do with TKR. I think he is gonna be really good for us, but I also think we might be in for a pleasant surprise with the back court as well.
Completely agree with this. We have a massive amount of turnover in the back court. Why disparage the new guys until they've had a reasonable chance to prove they can play? Without a doubt our biggest loss is Ivey. Beyond that, it isn't like Thompson and Hunter were all stars. Comparatively, is Jenkins that much worse than Hunter? Is Smith that much worse than Thompson? And that's to say nothing of Newman and Morton who have improved during the off season, or a wild card like Loyer.
I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and just wait and see.
Yep, don't disagree with this. It'll hurt not having Ivey there to create. But if TKR and Jenkins can pick up a bit of what Ivey did, that'll help.
I will be shocked, shocked I tell you, if our backcourt is even somewhat servicable. Our starting PG is a 5'10, 165lb kid who had not other P5 offers. He's going to see on ball pressure D like he's never dreamed of.
Of course Ivey is a huge loss. IT is no loss what-so-ever. Jenkins, not a ball handler/creator. I hope I'm wrong, but we're looking at a bottom 4 B10 back court.
Who says Smith is starting? Jenkins isn't prototype pg, but I'd trust him and Morton more to handle the ball against that pressure than a true freshman. Still not ideal of course.
Look, I'm not sold on Smith. But who's already determined that he's starting?
Yep. Hunter wasn't exactly what I'd call a "point guard". But he was serviceable and did a really nice job toward the end of the season when he got out of his slump. The least of my worries is who handles the ball. I'm more concerned about scoring from the backcourt...
bit premature to be calling Braden Smith the starting point guard when as far as anyone knows- Morton, Jenkins and Newman will be starters
Interesting- because at the time of our #1 ranking, handling the ball and beating the press were literally our biggest concerns last year.
Don't disagree with that. But I think Hunter improved significantly in the latter part of the year.
Good point. Maybe Morton will be the starting PG and Smith will be the backup. Still a less than ideal situation.
YOu won't know that , until it has been played out. Just give it at least a go before we say thumbs down . Remember how hard people were on Morton not being any good until they watched him play last year? I think we can all agree he was better than most ever thought.
I wouldn't agree with that at all. In fact, I'd say Morton has maybe even slightly underperformed expectations.
Averaged 2.4 points, 1.4 rebounds and 1.4 assists per game, appearing in all 37 contests, averaging 14.8 minutes per game. Shot 47.7 percent from the field and 44.1 percent (15-of-34) from 3-point range.
Nothing about that is outstanding. Good 3pt % but shot less than 1/game.
Reminds me of a senior grady eifert type guy. Pretty much out there just to be a 'steady presence'. Don't make mistakes/turn the ball over trying to do too much, take wide open 3s or layups when available, rebound/hustle/defense, and make sure the ball gets in the hands of the guys who can create on offense for us.
Huh? Did they announce smith was starting? I’d put him 4th most likely to start at PG, at least at the start of the season.
I thought Morton played very well down the stretch. Loyer indicated in his interview he can play PG, we have other options if smith does not pan out.
Shooting 44% from 3 on <1 attempt per game is actually quite difficult. His role was maybe 7th or 8th scoring option. There were plenty of guys who could put the ball in the basket that needed shots. Meanwhile he was one of the better defenders and a very good passer. He lead the team in +/- some games, even with limited minutes, including the tourney game against Texas. Anyone who watched that game knows how impactful he was.
He will get more opportunity this season, as will Newman. He is unproven in that larger role, so it remains to be seen how his efficiency can be extrapolated, but he hasn't underperformed to his utilization at all.
Never said he was "outstanding". Said he was better than some were giving him credit for. HOw many minutes did he play to get these stats? Remember, playing time has to factor in. Like the other poster said, he was a 7th or 8th option too. Really not relied on to be a heavy scorer.
Except Grady was a walk on and Morton was being talked about by Painter as one of the best passers he's ever seen.
The questions with Morton in high school were that he dominated in his region because there weren't a lot of good basketball players to contend with. There were concerns with how he was going to be able to compete against the better athletes he'd face in national AAU games. Those concerns came to fruition during AAU and have somewhat continued at Purdue.
Loyer saying he can play PG and being able to do it at the P5 level are 2 very different things, especially for someone with questionable speed/athleticism and known for being a 3 pt specialist.
But again, Morton wasn't relied on to be "dominant" when you have the core he was playing around. Surely you can see that?
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