Fair enough. I agree that unless someone really blows up (Zack, TKR, Newman?) or MP lands an elite guard transfer the team probably has a ceiling of top five in the conference and a sweet sixteen in the NCAAT (best case).
2022/2023 Team Roster
- Thread starter mathboy
- Start date
I get your point, but on the other hand, that's not a bad result (say top half or in the hunt for a double bye in the BTT) for a "down" year, IMHO. Let's see how the next three years play out. When your top-4 players minutes-wise leave, it's what would be expected unless you're Kentucky, Kansas, or Duke, maybe add one or two among a select few that doesn't include Purdue.
Morton looked great on the ball down the stretch and we are going to have to count on Newman to put up big minutes.
Morton was never guarding the opposing team’s PG last year. That’s why I asked who you would have guard the opposing team’s PG.
It's a good question. There aren't a lot of PG's in the BIG that I'd be afraid of, but would need to scheme around it. Not ideal.
Great discussion so far. I see a couple things that I want to massage. First, when I speculatively put various players into numbered spots, I was thinking offense. Defensively, we can have all sorts of variations from that. For example, putting Morton at point does not mean he must guard the opponent's point. Second, I think this next year's rotation will be shorter than last year. Even though I slotted everyone in the roster, I suspect that we will play 8-9 at most.
For those chicken little types, this roster as-is will be very potent. Nobody in college basketball matches up to Zack Edey one-on-one, and Gillis is very tough for most teams to deal with. Just about every team we play will probably double him in the post. The trick will be if Edey can learn to pass out of the post like Williams. If he does, we will be okay. If one of our guards can become a dangerous scorer from the outside (Newman?), we will be more than okay.
For those chicken little types, this roster as-is will be very potent. Nobody in college basketball matches up to Zack Edey one-on-one, and Gillis is very tough for most teams to deal with. Just about every team we play will probably double him in the post. The trick will be if Edey can learn to pass out of the post like Williams. If he does, we will be okay. If one of our guards can become a dangerous scorer from the outside (Newman?), we will be more than okay.
Who guards the the opponent’s point if not Morton?Great discussion so far. I see a couple things that I want to massage. First, when I speculatively put various players into numbered spots, I was thinking offense. Defensively, we can have all sorts of variations from that. For example, putting Morton at point does not mean he must guard the opponent's point. Second, I think this next year's rotation will be shorter than last year. Even though I slotted everyone in the roster, I suspect that we will play 8-9 at most.
For those chicken little types, this roster as-is will be very potent. Nobody in college basketball matches up to Zack Edey one-on-one, and Gillis is very tough for most teams to deal with. Just about every team we play will probably double him in the post. The trick will be if Edey can learn to pass out of the post like Williams. If he does, we will be okay. If one of our guards can become a dangerous scorer from the outside (Newman?), we will be more than okay.
If I were an opposing coach I would go straight up against Edey and let him get his. Take away everything else. That’s basically how Izzo has played us dating back to the Baby Boilers.
Yep. That would be my strategy too. So, what is Izzo's record vs Painter? I think it is pretty much a stand off with neither side getting much advantage, especially if you pull away the 2-3 Cordova sabatoged years from Painter's record.
As for guarding the PG, defense is easier than offense. All Morton has to do is slow down the opponent's PG, and he's done that offen this past year. It's not a shut down defense (not sure you can do that anymore), but it's good enough.
Morton never guarded the opposing team’s PG this year. Our offense is going to be worse than last year. Our defense can’t afford to play people out of position.
It will probably all be moot, because we will get an actual starting PG in the portal.
Painter is 21-27 vs Izzo.
Morton has never played point guard at Purdue period. He's played the 2, 3 nd 4 but never the point guard. We've seen nothing that would indicate that he can be an effective college point guard and my guess is that Painter isn't seeing it in practice either. If Painter thought Morton was the future at point guard why didn't we see Morton play one minute of point guard last year when Hunter and Thompson were struggling and why would he be hitting the portal so hard for a point guard if we had a Junior ready to take over the position.
Lots of guys play guard on their high school team because they are the best player on the court. It doesn't mean they can do it at the college level.
I think Morton actually played PG his freshman year against Clemson when Ivey and Hunter were hurt. It didn’t go well to say the least.
He just came back from mono and not practicing with team to covid. Not a good example.
Again he doesn’t have to guard a PG. It will be matchup driven. Painter even changes assignments frequently in a game. i don’t know who will if there is a matchup problem but if we don’t get a transfer it will probably be Newman a lot. i think we all agree Newman will be the wild card next year on offense. We need him to be consistent on both ends of the court. If we get near by a fast pg it won’t be because of Morton it will probably be because of Newman. I think Morton will be solid on offense. He has a very high IQ and very good passer and can hit 3s. The only thing different as our starting pg vs his role last year is he will be bRinging th ball up the court and he has the measurables (high IQ, size, passing ability) to be good at it. He will be fine on offense. He is our best defender and will be guarding the best scorer they have 1-3 provided it’s not a ridiculously fast pg who can go either way. Everyone has short memories he could have been player of game against Texas with his defense and clutch 3s. If we got 8 points from him and that defense every game he would be the best Pg we have had since LewJack.
I hope we do get a PG through the transfer portal too. If we don’t, we’ll, I think we will be okay. Your post sound a little bit like chicken little. I don’t think it’s that dire. It seems like almost every two years or so we go through the process of constructing a new team from the components left behind. Somehow, Painter makes it work. I might add that every college team goes through the same churn. We have some excellent players coming back, but I’m sure we have a hole or two to deal with.
We have an excellent front court, and we have some smoking good shooters coming back. I just can’t get all that worked up about not having a kid we can pencil into a PG spot. If we have to, we can get the ball advanced by committee. I’ve seen that work well on other teams and it will contribute toward making us better against the press.
Newman is not a good option to guard the opposing team’s PG either.
There is a big difference in the offense between playing the wing and playing the PG.
I’m not going to argue this point anymore as we are going in circles. We will see who the starters are when the season rolls around. I’m expecting Morton at the 3 (as has been reported by the staff on this site). You disagree which is perfectly fine. Moving on.
If I sound like a chicken little, then you sound like homer.I hope we do get a PG through the transfer portal too. If we don’t, we’ll, I think we will be okay. Your post sound a little bit like chicken little. I don’t think it’s that dire. It seems like almost every two years or so we go through the process of constructing a new team from the components left behind. Somehow, Painter makes it work. I might add that every college team goes through the same churn. We have some excellent players coming back, but I’m sure we have a hole or two to deal with.
We have an excellent front court, and we have some smoking good shooters coming back. I just can’t get all that worked up about not having a kid we can pencil into a PG spot. If we have to, we can get the ball advanced by committee. I’ve seen that work well on other teams and it will contribute toward making us better against the press.
We do have an excellent frontcourt, but we also have a very weak backcourt. I expect this coming year to look like the 2019 season.
Either way, we will find out next year. Moving on.
You crack me up. You say you won’t argue anymore in prior post and then respond to another one ending with moving on again. Like you have to have last word and put up a Chinese wall. So it’s moving on until after the next one.
very weak backcourt is not true. Unproven, maybe. This would be different if we had 4 ITs in the backcourt and you know what we got. We know Morton but we don’t know who our transfer will be, we don’t know if we have the good or bad Newman, and we don’t know how Loyer and Smith will be. Totally normal to have uncertainty. But we do know we have a ton of talent there, our ceiling is very high.
I was replying to a different poster. I was moving on from both conversations.
You are free to have your opinion. I hope you are right.
Doesn't fit Painter's style, but a high motor "death lineup" of Morton, Newman, Waddell, TKR, and Furst would be fun to watch running up and down the floor.
Ha....Resurrect the old Arkansas Razorbacks' "40 minutes of Hell" under Nolan Richardson.
CMP would likely enter into cardiac arrest at some point.
@lovelyblonde
"There is NOTHING INDICATING EDEY is a must starter! Painter likes BERG too, so it will be the two big men battling for the starting position. Unless Painter does what he has with a few players in recent years and gives them the starting position no matter what."
I hope you are joking with this comment above. Edey will be an All American this year. There is no chance he doesn't start. Berg is a clear redshirt candidate.
"There is NOTHING INDICATING EDEY is a must starter! Painter likes BERG too, so it will be the two big men battling for the starting position. Unless Painter does what he has with a few players in recent years and gives them the starting position no matter what."
I hope you are joking with this comment above. Edey will be an All American this year. There is no chance he doesn't start. Berg is a clear redshirt candidate.
At this point we don't even know if Berg can even play at the college level. Zero chance Edey doesn't start.
The issue with not having an elite guard off the dribble is that it'll be much easier to double Zach in the post. Most teams will watch the St Joe's game tape and know exactly how to handle that situation. Unless Zach really improves his passing from the post and gets stronger hands, they'll be a lot of double and triple teaming. And if we're not hitting 3s, ouch...Great discussion so far. I see a couple things that I want to massage. First, when I speculatively put various players into numbered spots, I was thinking offense. Defensively, we can have all sorts of variations from that. For example, putting Morton at point does not mean he must guard the opponent's point. Second, I think this next year's rotation will be shorter than last year. Even though I slotted everyone in the roster, I suspect that we will play 8-9 at most.
For those chicken little types, this roster as-is will be very potent. Nobody in college basketball matches up to Zack Edey one-on-one, and Gillis is very tough for most teams to deal with. Just about every team we play will probably double him in the post. The trick will be if Edey can learn to pass out of the post like Williams. If he does, we will be okay. If one of our guards can become a dangerous scorer from the outside (Newman?), we will be more than okay.
No joke. I mean I hope Berg surprises like Edey did, but Edey might be the most dominant center we’ve had under painter, and that’s saying a lot.
I don't know what's worse, the post or the fact that so many people liked it. This combination would be the most unathletic lineup Purdue has put on the floor in the last 20 years. I think it would be 40 minutes of hell for Purdue fans lol.
I don't know that that's a great lineup, it's missing two of our best and most experienced players in Zach and Mason, but I don't understand why you'd call it unathletic.
You're missing quickness at the 1 but outside of that who in that lineup is unathletic?
From the outside looking in... Purdue could get pretty lucky with the Big Ten going to be fairly down. Tons of talent leaving the conference. Purdue will be able to win some games because of Edey and First likely. But will lose many because the only PGs on the team are Morton and Smith. There won't be a guard on the floor who can breakdown a defense like an Ivey or Edwards obviously, but there isn't even a Ronnie Johnson. They'll have to rely on lockouts from the post a lot. Edey is going to need to become a great passer. I'll go out on a limb and say the starters will be Morton, Loyer, Gillis, First and Edey. Gillis is going to get hurt the most bad the guard play as he won't have the spot up shooting attempts he's had the past couple years.
The 2023 team seems similar to the 2019 team to me. Edey is one of the most dominant offensive players that college basketball has seen in the past 20 years when he's on the court, up there with Trae Young, Michael Beasley, and Ethan Happ. We have a guy that can efficiently get us 20 a game if we want him to (might not be our optimal strategy though). Edey was also younger this year during conference play than Dickinson and Jackson-Davis were when they played their first games as freshmen. He could easily take a leap forward in a bigger role.
The 2019 roster, outside of Carsen, averaged 13 a game in 2018. We really made an Elite 8 starting a senior who was coming off of a career year at 1.6 PPG. Cline was our second option at 4 PPG. That was seen as a huge issue off of a disappointing season, much like Newman, but we saw what happened when he found a bigger role. Winning the league and going to an Elite 8 is definitely optimistic, and I'd rather have a dominant guard than a dominant big.
But if we are going to have subpar guard play, Edey is the ideal player to have. We can surround him with a lot of guys who are capable of spotting up and making 40+% of their threes. This could really help guys like Smith and Loyer, who might not be able to make plays off of the dribble yet, find a role as freshmen and settle in as shooters. Clearly, our frontcourt is better than our backcourt, and I think the key will be finding a way to play 3 of Edey, Furst, Kaufman, Gillis, and Waddell at the same time, even if Painter traditionally would have only played KG&W at a 4 position.
The 2019 roster, outside of Carsen, averaged 13 a game in 2018. We really made an Elite 8 starting a senior who was coming off of a career year at 1.6 PPG. Cline was our second option at 4 PPG. That was seen as a huge issue off of a disappointing season, much like Newman, but we saw what happened when he found a bigger role. Winning the league and going to an Elite 8 is definitely optimistic, and I'd rather have a dominant guard than a dominant big.
But if we are going to have subpar guard play, Edey is the ideal player to have. We can surround him with a lot of guys who are capable of spotting up and making 40+% of their threes. This could really help guys like Smith and Loyer, who might not be able to make plays off of the dribble yet, find a role as freshmen and settle in as shooters. Clearly, our frontcourt is better than our backcourt, and I think the key will be finding a way to play 3 of Edey, Furst, Kaufman, Gillis, and Waddell at the same time, even if Painter traditionally would have only played KG&W at a 4 position.
I wouldn't say Berg's a clear redshirt candidate at all. Edey has to first show that he has the stamina to play more minutes a game than he's ever played in past years and be able to show he can stay out of foul trouble, the totally new Purdue backcourt needs to show that they can get the ball inside to Edey without turning the ball over 30 times a game, etc., for that even to be a consideration, and I know some feel that Furst will probably play 20 minutes a game at the 5 and be a force in the post at 6'8, 6'9. We'll see how training camp goes in August - October. If Painter likes that combination of Edey playing 20 mpg and Furst playing the other 20 and there is no let-down in scoring and defense, because they'll have to find most of their scoring from the frontcourt this coming season, since the backcourt will be a mess, no scoring depth and no current elite scorers in what will be a totally brand new backcourt, unless Matt finds an elite SG and/or scoring PG via the portal. Bottom line: I wouldn't bet the farm at all that Berg is a shoo-in to be red-shirted. But Painter may be thinking that he knows he has elite recruits coming in 2023, that 2022-23 will probably be a down year, and indeed redshirt Berg to give him a year to develop more, although he looks damn good in videos from Sweden already, and have him for a full 4 years with the elite recruits coming the following year. I think it's still all a wait-and-see situation at this point.
Zack and TKR can blow up, but the backcourt right now scares me... What makes us think that Newman will blow up scoring wise? Painter gave Newman lots of rope to prove what he can do and he failed miserably and Matt couldn't trust him and ended up playing Sasha way more than he probably should have. I'm cautiously optimistic but they better get 60 points or more from the frontcourt of Gillis, Edey, TKR, Furst and others because the backcourt may be a black hole. And the new backcourt better show that they can get the ball into Edey and others down low without turning the ball over 30 times a game. It may be a long, frustrating upcoming season.
St. Joe, St. Pete, it doesn't matter Purdue should never lose to a team with St. in the name.
I say let them watch St. Joes and double the post. We will bury them with 3’s. Mark it down now. We are going to kill opponents with the three point shot next year.
I agree that there is a lot of uncertainty in the back court but I’d say two things
1) I don’t think Brandon needs to ‘blow up’ scoring wise, there have been some really solid MP teams that didn’t feature a lot of back court scoring.
2) Brandon struggles coming off the bench for five to seven minute stretches. His role will be much different this season and he played well in a starters role as a rs freshman. I don’t think he suddenly became a worse player last year, the role he does well in just wasn’t available.
Why didn't we kill opponents with the 3 point shot this past year, specifically in the tournament?
7th nationally in 3pt %’s and 12th in 3pts made?
Jaden took too many shitty shots in the BTT and NCAAT and Mason and EHJ both picked a bad time to go 0-3 on good looks against St. Pete’s.
Zach’s continued development will be the key there. If teams can muscle (foul) him 1x1 and avoid doubling they will. If he has the touch to score at a very high clip from 12 feet in as AJH did as a Jr and Sr versus needing the ball 6 to 8 feet from the basket he will be a matchup nightmare.
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