2022/2023 Team Roster

boilerball2021

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No, I can't, not off the top of my head. But, what I can list is that Painter is 1-5 in S16 games in his 18 years. What that tells me, is that either
a) as the competition gets tougher, the deeper you go in the tourney, Painter isn't making the needed adjustments
or
b) teams we run into in the S16 or later have slightly better talent that we can't overcome.

I agree that Purdue has had good shooters at the G position, but except for a few instances (Carsen, Ivey), those Gs are almost all very one-dimensional (good shooters, not good ball handlers, creators, penetrators, etc).
Unfortunately, that's likely what we have in this years roster.
So you would be shocked to learn that Painter is top 15 among active coaches in tournament wins?

This is a rebuilding year and we will still be top 3 or 4 in the Big Ten. Your expectations are unrealistic for a Purdue basketball coach. Who are some guards in the last few years that we had an actual chance with that would be acceptable to you vs what we've had?
 
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northside100

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No, I can't, not off the top of my head. But, what I can list is that Painter is 1-5 in S16 games in his 18 years. What that tells me, is that either
a) as the competition gets tougher, the deeper you go in the tourney, Painter isn't making the needed adjustments
or
b) teams we run into in the S16 or later have slightly better talent that we can't overcome.

I agree that Purdue has had good shooters at the G position, but except for a few instances (Carsen, Ivey), those Gs are almost all very one-dimensional (good shooters, not good ball handlers, creators, penetrators, etc).
Unfortunately, that's likely what we have in this years roster.
Probably a bit of both your a and b when it comes to SS games.

0-3 versus 1 seeds as a 4 or 5 seed (not surprising)
0-1 vs Tx Tech as the higher seed (2 vs 3), playing a team that made it to the National Championship game after having lost Haas two games prior
1-0 vs Tenn as the lower seed (3 vs 2) on the back of Carsen and Cline going nuts
0-1 vs St. Pete's (3 vs 15) in a game in which the coaching staff was not great, refs allowed Edey and Ivey to get mugged and neither reacted well

Need to continue to come in a 2 or 3 seed to have a realistic chance at success in the SS. Coming in a 4 seed or lower and hoping to either upset a 1 seed or get lucky and have them get upset first is a losing proposition.
 

bonefish1

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So you would be shocked to learn that Painter is top 15 among active coaches in tournament wins?

This is a rebuilding year and we will still be top 3 or 4 in the Big Ten. Your expectations are unrealistic for a Purdue basketball coach. Who are some guards in the last few years that we had an actual chance with that would be acceptable to you vs what we've had?
Among those top 15, how many have made a FF or won a NC?

Where would you categorize the Purdue basketball program? Decent, solid, very good, great?

As for guards in the last 5-10 yrs, I'd have to go back and see who we missed out on.
 

bonefish1

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Probably a bit of both your a and b when it comes to SS games.

0-3 versus 1 seeds as a 4 or 5 seed (not surprising)
0-1 vs Tx Tech as the higher seed (2 vs 3), playing a team that made it to the National Championship game after having lost Haas two games prior
1-0 vs Tenn as the lower seed (3 vs 2) on the back of Carsen and Cline going nuts
0-1 vs St. Pete's (3 vs 15) in a game in which the coaching staff was not great, refs allowed Edey and Ivey to get mugged and neither reacted well

Need to continue to come in a 2 or 3 seed to have a realistic chance at success in the SS. Coming in a 4 seed or lower and hoping to either upset a 1 seed or get lucky and have them get upset first is a losing proposition.
But, unless you're a 1 seed, and even when you are a 1 seed, you're going to have to beat some really good teams or teams your not supposed to beat to advance to a FF. Painter has been upset a number of times but rarely, if ever, has upset a higher seeded team.
 

boilerball2021

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Among those top 15, how many have made a FF or won a NC?

Where would you categorize the Purdue basketball program? Decent, solid, very good, great?

As for guards in the last 5-10 yrs, I'd have to go back and see who we missed out on.
He ranks 11th in active tournament wins. Of the 10 in front of him, only Sean Miller doesn't have a Final 4. Huggins and Rick Barnes have 1 each. Scott Drew also has 1, but he did go on to win the championship that year.

NCAA Wins Among Active Coaches:

1. Self - 54 - 4 F4s
2. Izzo - 47 - 7 F4s
3. Calipari - 45 - 5 F4s
4. Few - 38 - 2 F4s
5. Boeheim - 32 - 3 F4s
6. Barnes - 23 - 1 F4s
7. Huggins - 20 - 1 F4s
8. Sampson - 20 - 2 F4s
9. Miller - 19 - 0 F4s
10. Drew - 18 - 1 F4s
11. Painter - 17 - 0 F4s


I would categorize Purdue as very good basketball program.

So you can't name anyone off hand that you would rather have, but are certain we can do better than the guys we get.
 

bonefish1

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He ranks 11th in active tournament wins. Of the 10 in front of him, only Sean Miller doesn't have a Final 4. Huggins and Rick Barnes have 1 each. Scott Drew also has 1, but he did go on to win the championship that year.

NCAA Wins Among Active Coaches:

1. Self - 54 - 4 F4s
2. Izzo - 47 - 7 F4s
3. Calipari - 45 - 5 F4s
4. Few - 38 - 2 F4s
5. Boeheim - 32 - 3 F4s
6. Barnes - 23 - 1 F4s
7. Huggins - 20 - 1 F4s
8. Sampson - 20 - 2 F4s
9. Miller - 19 - 0 F4s
10. Drew - 18 - 1 F4s
11. Painter - 17 - 0 F4s


I would categorize Purdue as very good basketball program.

So you can't name anyone off hand that you would rather have, but are certain we can do better than the guys we get.
Ok, just so I'm clear, over 80% of the coaches in the top 11 have a FF? I'd also be interested to see how many years each has been coaching. Painter has 17 wins in 18 years (or so).

I don't remember who we were recruiting specifically, but I was never a fan of ether PJ or Isaiah Thompson. They weren't B10 caliber players.

What is your expectation, or how often a P5 program that you categorize as very good, should make the FF? At the current rate, Purdue has had a chance to make the FF once every 13 years.
 

boilerball2021

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Ok, just so I'm clear, over 80% of the coaches in the top 11 have a FF? I'd also be interested to see how many years each has been coaching. Painter has 17 wins in 18 years (or so).

I don't remember who we were recruiting specifically, but I was never a fan of ether PJ or Isaiah Thompson. They weren't B10 caliber players.

What is your expectation, or how often a P5 program that you categorize as very good, should make the FF? At the current rate, Purdue has had a chance to make the FF once every 13 years.
Are you not capable of doing your own research? Of those 11 Painter ranks 6th in tournament wins per year. Is this enough info to change your opinion? Look how poorly some of those guys are ahead of him even though they have a final 4. Would you rather have Huggins or Painter? The answer is obvious.

NCAA Wins Per Year:

1. Self - 1.86 wins
2. Izzo - 1.74
3. Calipari - 1.5
4. Few - 1.65
5. Boeheim - 0.70
6. Barnes - 0.66
7. Huggins - 0.54
8. Sampson - 0.69
9. Miller - 1.12
10. Drew - 0.90
11. Painter - 0.94


We don't need to get into whether or not the Thompson brothers are Big ten caliber players or not. You speak your opinion like it's a fact.

There is no set expectation for how often a "very good" P5 program should make the FF, imo. We are consistently top 3 in the best conference in college basketball. We win the conference often. Where did you come up with having a chance at the final 4 every 13 years? We've been to the sweet 16 in 4 of the last 5 tournaments and were a fluke play away from a final 4 in one of those years.

You have nothing to support your opinions.
 

SCBoiler1

Redshirt Freshman
Feb 10, 2014
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Are you not capable of doing your own research? Of those 11 Painter ranks 6th in tournament wins per year. Is this enough info to change your opinion? Look how poorly some of those guys are ahead of him even though they have a final 4. Would you rather have Huggins or Painter? The answer is obvious.

NCAA Wins Per Year:

1. Self - 1.86 wins
2. Izzo - 1.74
3. Calipari - 1.5
4. Few - 1.65
5. Boeheim - 0.70
6. Barnes - 0.66
7. Huggins - 0.54
8. Sampson - 0.69
9. Miller - 1.12
10. Drew - 0.90
11. Painter - 0.94


We don't need to get into whether or not the Thompson brothers are Big ten caliber players or not. You speak your opinion like it's a fact.

There is no set expectation for how often a "very good" P5 program should make the FF, imo. We are consistently top 3 in the best conference in college basketball. We win the conference often. Where did you come up with having a chance at the final 4 every 13 years? We've been to the sweet 16 in 4 of the last 5 tournaments and were a fluke play away from a final 4 in one of those years.

You have nothing to support your opinions.
Painter's averaging about 1 NCAA tournament win per year over the course of his career, That means on average Purdue advances to the round of 32. That would indicate Purdue on average is somewhere in the range of the 17th to 32nd best team in the country based on tournament results. Purdue has been unranked at the end of the year 6 times under Painter, has finished between 11th and 25th 7 times and has finished 10th in the AP Poll twice. The Final AP Poll is taken prior to the beginning for the tournament. I believe Painter's NCAA Tournament results are fairly consistent with Purdue's overall results.
 
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SCBoiler1

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The 3 point line was a lot closer when moore was a freshman....
Just stop.

So you believe Loyer will be one of the top 10 scorers in the B1G as a freshman and lead Purdue in scoring? Someone said that was because Moore was on a worse team. Really? That team was 15-3 in conference.

So in order to for you guys making the argument that Loyer will be better than Moore as a freshmen, Purdue will need to go 15-3 in conference and Loyer will need to be Purdue's leading scorer and rank 9th or above in the B1G in scoring.

He'll then go on and be All B1G first team twice and have a 10 year NBA career and play the 5th most games in the NBA out of anyone who has ever played for Purdue.

Okay, I get it.
 

mathboy

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Just stop.

So you believe Loyer will be one of the top 10 scorers in the B1G as a freshman and lead Purdue in scoring? Someone said that was because Moore was on a worse team. Really? That team was 15-3 in conference.

So in order to for you guys making the argument that Loyer will be better than Moore as a freshmen, Purdue will need to go 15-3 in conference and Loyer will need to be Purdue's leading scorer and rank 9th or above in the B1G in scoring.

He'll then go on and be All B1G first team twice and have a 10 year NBA career and play the 5th most games in the NBA out of anyone who has ever played for Purdue.

Okay, I get it.
I seem to re all that the BIG was not as strong a conferencefrom top to bottom as it is now. There were a lot of doormat teams back then. Going 15-3 is a heck of a lot more difficult this coming year.
 

boilerball2021

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I seem to re all that the BIG was not as strong a conferencefrom top to bottom as it is now. There were a lot of doormat teams back then. Going 15-3 is a heck of a lot more difficult this coming year.
To be fair, the Big Ten will likely be horrible this year overall.
 

mathboy

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To be fair, the Big Ten will likely be horrible this year overall.
Not really. Aren’t there 5-6 teams ranked going into this season? Sounds kinda like you want it to be a weak conference to support your perspective, but I don’t think it’s going to work like that.
 

Purdue Grad in Texas

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Not really. Aren’t there 5-6 teams ranked going into this season? Sounds kinda like you want it to be a weak conference to support your perspective, but I don’t think it’s going to work like that.

I think if you look at some of the preseason projections, it may just be Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan. I think Ohio State will be decent, and Purdue should hover near the rankings, but compared to the last couple of years, the conference may not be as well-regarded at the top. That may be a good thing, as the last few years a lot of highly-regarded big ten teams disappointed in March.

Big XII (minus II) looks to be strong again.
 

boilerball2021

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Not really. Aren’t there 5-6 teams ranked going into this season? Sounds kinda like you want it to be a weak conference to support your perspective, but I don’t think it’s going to work like that.
What perspective do I want supported?

I would guess there are 2 or 3 ranked Big Ten teams preseason by the AP. It’s a down year for the Big Ten, and there really is no disputing that. The 9th place team brings everyone back and is projected to win the league. That should tell you all you need to know.
 
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If you want to argue EM as 'most impactful freshman' I'm on board. The only argument I can see for EM as 'best player' would be based on the fact that he consistently performed at a very high level for four years while Johnson wasn't as impactful as a freshman and the other three only stayed two or three years.
I will take another one like him anytime plus he was always a team player high school college and pro
 
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mathboy

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What perspective do I want supported?

I would guess there are 2 or 3 ranked Big Ten teams preseason by the AP. It’s a down year for the Big Ten, and there really is no disputing that. The 9th place team brings everyone back and is projected to win the league. That should tell you all you need to know.
Well, you are right about the number of teams ranked. I was thinking there were more. However, I do have to question why anyone (not you) who would think the ninth ranked team will suddenly jump to the top of the BIG and finish as a ranked team next year. I think these rating services are reading each other’s stuff and just doing a copy/paste. It just doesn’t compute for me.
 
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Do Dah Day

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He ranks 11th in active tournament wins. Of the 10 in front of him, only Sean Miller doesn't have a Final 4. Huggins and Rick Barnes have 1 each. Scott Drew also has 1, but he did go on to win the championship that year.

NCAA Wins Among Active Coaches:

1. Self - 54 - 4 F4s
2. Izzo - 47 - 7 F4s
3. Calipari - 45 - 5 F4s
4. Few - 38 - 2 F4s
5. Boeheim - 32 - 3 F4s
6. Barnes - 23 - 1 F4s
7. Huggins - 20 - 1 F4s
8. Sampson - 20 - 2 F4s
9. Miller - 19 - 0 F4s
10. Drew - 18 - 1 F4s
11. Painter - 17 - 0 F4s


I would categorize Purdue as very good basketball program.

So you can't name anyone off hand that you would rather have, but are certain we can do better than the guys we get.
Can you add their ages to this? I am pretty sure Painter is the youngest and by several years/
 

northside100

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Well, you are right about the number of teams ranked. I was thinking there were more. However, I do have to question why anyone (not you) who would think the ninth ranked team will suddenly jump to the top of the BIG and finish as a ranked team next year. I think these rating services are reading each other’s stuff and just doing a copy/paste. It just doesn’t compute for me.
You're right in that it's the same formulaic approach that's used every year, i.e. look at the finish from the previous year and try to gauge who left and who is being added.

The problem is that most writers try to use stats to evaluate who is returning and when you look at the all big ten teams from last year and see only HD, TJD and Zach coming back, it's easy to over-rate guys like Race Thompson and Xavier Johnson who are returning in similar roles to what they played last year. On the flip side, it's easy to under value players like Furst, Morton and Newman, whose roles will be significantly expanding this season.

For the record, I think that IU will be good this year, i.e. a solid NCAAT team and in the hunt for a Big Ten championship, but they're going to need to shoot the ball better to have a shot at actually winning anything.
 
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northside100

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Can you add their ages to this? I am pretty sure Painter is the youngest and by several years/
Top five guys are all hall of famers. Beyond that, Barnes is 68, Huggins is 69 and Sampson is 67.

Seam Miller is only 53, but coached at one of the elite jobs in the country at Arizona for 12 years (plus 5 at Xavier) to get to those 19 NCAAT wins.

Scott Drew is only 51 and the work that he's done at Baylor is impressive. Fans who are convinced that Painter will never make a FF should take a look at Drew, who had two Sweet Sixteens and two Elite Eight appearances in his first 17 years at Baylor before winning it all in 2021. In his seven seasons before winning the NCAAT he had two NIT appearances, two first round losses, one second round loss and two Sweet Sixteens.
 
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northside100

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But, unless you're a 1 seed, and even when you are a 1 seed, you're going to have to beat some really good teams or teams your not supposed to beat to advance to a FF. Painter has been upset a number of times but rarely, if ever, has upset a higher seeded team.
You're obviously right, you need to beat good teams to reach the FF. I'd argue that there are a handful of teams each year, typically 1 seeds, that you want to avoid as long as possible in hopes that they have a bad game and get upset or that you don't draw their best game.

Those three losses to 1 seeds in the SS were unlikely to go the other way for Purdue. Duke won the NCAAT that year, UConn made it to the Final Four before losing to Michigan State and Kansas lost in the next round but played out of their mind in the second half in front of what was essentially a home crowd in Kansas City.

Makes the loss to St. Pete's more painful because it was the first break that Purdue caught in the brackets in a long time.
 
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Do Dah Day

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Top five guys are all hall of famers. Beyond that, Barnes is 68, Huggins is 69 and Sampson is 67.

Seam Miller is only 53, but coached at one of the elite jobs in the country at Arizona for 12 years (plus 5 at Xavier) to get to those 19 NCAAT wins.

Scott Drew is only 51 and the work that he's done at Baylor is impressive. Fans who are convinced that Painter will never make a FF should take a look at Drew, who had two Sweet Sixteens and two Elite Eight appearances in his first 17 years at Baylor before winning it all in 2021. In his seven seasons before winning the NCAAT he had two NIT appearances, two first round losses, one second round loss and two Sweet Sixteens.
Awesome - thank you!!! So, Drew is 51, Painter is 52 and Miller is 53 ... otherwise, other than Few at almost 61, they're all over 65
 
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bonefish1

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You're obviously right, you need to beat good teams to reach the FF. I'd argue that there are a handful of teams each year, typically 1 seeds, that you want to avoid as long as possible in hopes that they have a bad game and get upset or that you don't draw their best game.

Those three losses to 1 seeds in the SS were unlikely to go the other way for Purdue. Duke won the NCAAT that year, UConn made it to the Final Four before losing to Michigan State and Kansas lost in the next round but played out of their mind in the second half in front of what was essentially a home crowd in Kansas City.

Makes the loss to St. Pete's more painful because it was the first break that Purdue caught in the brackets in a long time.
Sure, no one wants to face a No1 seed, no matter what year it is. But, it's not like Purdue has gotten a bad draw and been knocked out by the best team in the nation every year.
The fact remains, Painter never upsets teams in the tourney. He basically plays to the chalk, except that he's taken some bad losses.
 

Hausta01

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Sure, no one wants to face a No1 seed, no matter what year it is. But, it's not like Purdue has gotten a bad draw and been knocked out by the best team in the nation every year.
The fact remains, Painter never upsets teams in the tourney. He basically plays to the chalk, except that he's taken some bad losses.

Upset win over Tennessee? No?
 

bonefish1

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Upset win over Tennessee? No?
If you want to consider a 3/2 game a big upset. Do you consider it a big upset when the 9 wins the 8/9 game?

The fact is, Painter has never beat a team seeded more than 3 seeds higher (check my math on that) and the one time he did, it was against St. Mary's (again, correct me if I'm wrong), hardly a basketball power.

So, I think it's accurate to say that in the tourney Painter wins the games he supposed to, loses the games he's supposed to, never/very rarely upsets a higher seed, but has some very bad losses to lower seeds.
Is that considered a successful tourney coach?
 

boilerball2021

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If you want to consider a 3/2 game a big upset. Do you consider it a big upset when the 9 wins the 8/9 game?

The fact is, Painter has never beat a team seeded more than 3 seeds higher (check my math on that) and the one time he did, it was against St. Mary's (again, correct me if I'm wrong), hardly a basketball power.

So, I think it's accurate to say that in the tourney Painter wins the games he supposed to, loses the games he's supposed to, never/very rarely upsets a higher seed, but has some very bad losses to lower seeds.
Is that considered a successful tourney coach?
What is Coach K’s record in the tournament vs teams that are more than 3 seeds better?
 

DAG10

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Top five guys are all hall of famers. Beyond that, Barnes is 68, Huggins is 69 and Sampson is 67.

Seam Miller is only 53, but coached at one of the elite jobs in the country at Arizona for 12 years (plus 5 at Xavier) to get to those 19 NCAAT wins.

Scott Drew is only 51 and the work that he's done at Baylor is impressive. Fans who are convinced that Painter will never make a FF should take a look at Drew, who had two Sweet Sixteens and two Elite Eight appearances in his first 17 years at Baylor before winning it all in 2021. In his seven seasons before winning the NCAAT he had two NIT appearances, two first round losses, one second round loss and two Sweet Sixteens.
If Painter/Purdue ever got to a point where they recruited even close to on par with Baylor, at that point, I might look at what Scott has done...and, what he has ultimately done at Baylor is nothing short of incredible.
 

Purdue Grad in Texas

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What is Coach K’s record in the tournament vs teams that are more than 3 seeds better?

As far as I can tell, incredibly, he only faced that situation ONCE. In '87, 5th seeded Duke lost to top seed Indiana in the Midwest Regional Semi-Final. So, he was 0-1.

There were only two other years it was even possible - '96 as 8-seed and '07 as 6-seed. Duke lost in the first round both those seasons.

Duke was a top seed under Krzyzewski a staggering 14 times
('86, '92, '98, 99, '00, '01, '02, '04, '05, '06, '10, '11, '15, '19)

Throw in another dozen times, Duke was a 2-seed
('88, '89, '91, '94, '97, '08, '09, '12, '13, '17, '18, '22)

His only "upset" wins (beating a higher seed) were against top seeds:

'88 - beat top-seed Temple in the East Regional Final
'89 - beat top-seed Georgetown in the East Regional Final
'90 - beat top-seed Connecticut in the East Regional Final
'91 - beat top-seed UNLV in the National Semi-Final
'94 - beat top-seed Purdue in the Southeast Regional Final

The biggest chunk of that was in that run of five straight Final Fours, ending with defending its NCAA titles from '91-92.

These results haven't been audited, so someone please check the results. Regardless - Krzyzewski is an all timer and hall-of-famer with an incredible record.

You can do at least "ok" if you're a one or a two-seed just about every year. Granted, maybe some years, Duke received a favorable seed, and there's the Greensborough/Raleigh/Charlotte invitational aspect for early rounds. However, Krzyzewski put together fantastic teams over three decades and also got them to play pretty damn consistently in the clutch. Naturally, not the biggest fan, but you have to acknowledge how good he and his teams were and the ultimate results.

Higher seeds and consistency - if you can do that, eventually, a talented team can break through.
 

bonefish1

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As far as I can tell, incredibly, he only faced that situation ONCE. In '87, 5th seeded Duke lost to top seed Indiana in the Midwest Regional Semi-Final. So, he was 0-1.

There were only two other years it was even possible - '96 as 8-seed and '07 as 6-seed. Duke lost in the first round both those seasons.

Duke was a top seed under Krzyzewski a staggering 14 times
('86, '92, '98, 99, '00, '01, '02, '04, '05, '06, '10, '11, '15, '19)

Throw in another dozen times, Duke was a 2-seed
('88, '89, '91, '94, '97, '08, '09, '12, '13, '17, '18, '22)

His only "upset" wins (beating a higher seed) were against top seeds:

'88 - beat top-seed Temple in the East Regional Final
'89 - beat top-seed Georgetown in the East Regional Final
'90 - beat top-seed Connecticut in the East Regional Final
'91 - beat top-seed UNLV in the National Semi-Final
'94 - beat top-seed Purdue in the Southeast Regional Final

The biggest chunk of that was in that run of five straight Final Fours, ending with defending its NCAA titles from '91-92.

These results haven't been audited, so someone please check the results. Regardless - Krzyzewski is an all timer and hall-of-famer with an incredible record.

You can do at least "ok" if you're a one or a two-seed just about every year. Granted, maybe some years, Duke received a favorable seed, and there's the Greensborough/Raleigh/Charlotte invitational aspect for early rounds. However, Krzyzewski put together fantastic teams over three decades and also got them to play pretty damn consistently in the clutch. Naturally, not the biggest fan, but you have to acknowledge how good he and his teams were and the ultimate results.

Higher seeds and consistency - if you can do that, eventually, a talented team can break through.
Wait for it....someone is going to say "Well...yeh...it's easy to do well in the tourney when you're a blue blood and get the best players in the nation to come to your school."
 

boilerball2021

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Irrelevant: Coach K has numerous Final Fours and National Championships.

I hope you're not going to compare Painter and Coach K as tourney coaches.
No, your stat of record against 3+ higher seeds is irrelevant. Painter’s tournament record speaks for itself. Do I need to show you the list again where he is 11th in tournament wins among active coaches. Do I need to again show you his winning percentage in the tournament vs those other top coaches?
 
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bonefish1

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No, your stat of record against 3+ higher seeds is irrelevant. Painter’s tournament record speaks for itself. Do I need to show you the list again where he is 11th in tournament wins among active coaches. Do I need to again show you his winning percentage in the tournament vs those other top coaches?
Not sure what you're arguing about: Painter usually beats who he's supposed to beat, has never beat a team seeded more than 1 seed higher (St. Mary's....meh, whatever), has lost several times to teams seeded much lower, and has made the E8 once time in 17 chances. If that's your description of a strong tourney coach, then Ok, I guess.

Let me give you this analogy:
If the 30th ranked golfer in the world played in the Masters 20 times and had 1 Top 10 finish, 4 finishes between 12-16 and the rest between either 25 or missing the cut, would you say that player plays well in the Masters?
 

northside100

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Let me give you this analogy:
If the 30th ranked golfer in the world played in the Masters 20 times and had 1 Top 10 finish, 4 finishes between 12-16 and the rest between either 25 or missing the cut, would you say that player plays well in the Masters?
Why don’t you give a basketball analogy instead? I agree with you that the facts are, regardless of reason, that MP has had better regular season results than NCAAT results and that he’s accountable for that.

Which coaches at a top 20 to 30 programs have had consistently better results? I’d point to Chris Beard in a small body of work at Texas Tech, Bennett has escalated UVA, same for Wright at ‘Nova, but the list seems pretty short.
 
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boilerball2021

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Not sure what you're arguing about: Painter usually beats who he's supposed to beat, has never beat a team seeded more than 1 seed higher (St. Mary's....meh, whatever), has lost several times to teams seeded much lower, and has made the E8 once time in 17 chances. If that's your description of a strong tourney coach, then Ok, I guess.

Let me give you this analogy:
If the 30th ranked golfer in the world played in the Masters 20 times and had 1 Top 10 finish, 4 finishes between 12-16 and the rest between either 25 or missing the cut, would you say that player plays well in the Masters?
That’s a pathetic analogy. There are 90-100 players in the Masters field. There are 350ish D1 teams. Finishing in the top 30% of the Masters is not the same as finishing in the top 4.6% (Sweet 16) of college basketball.

Even though he is only 52, Painter is 11th in tournament wins among active coaches. That’s very good.

You can HOPE for better results, but to EXPECT better results is simply ignorant.
 
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Purdue Grad in Texas

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That’s a pathetic analogy. There are 90-100 players in the Masters field. There are 350ish D1 teams. Finishing in the top 30% of the Masters is not the same as finishing in the top 4.6% (Sweet 16) of college basketball.

Even though he is only 52, Painter is 11th in tournament wins among active coaches. That’s very good.

You can HOPE for better results, but to EXPECT better results is simply ignorant.

When Painter does it, give him a GOLD jacket instead of a green one.....

634496a9a82e9188680801.gif
 
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Sure, no one wants to face a No1 seed, no matter what year it is. But, it's not like Purdue has gotten a bad draw and been knocked out by the best team in the nation every year.
The fact remains, Painter never upsets teams in the tourney. He basically plays to the chalk, except that he's taken some bad losses.
What teams has Duke upset, for example? It’s hard to upset teams when you’re always a top seed. Yet they’ve had early exits to Mercer and South Carolina in the last years with supposedly the best coach of all time. Everyone gets upset
 

bonefish1

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Why don’t you give a basketball analogy instead? I agree with you that the facts are, regardless of reason, that MP has had better regular season results than NCAAT results and that he’s accountable for that.

Which coaches at a top 20 to 30 programs have had consistently better results? I’d point to Chris Beard in a small body of work at Texas Tech, Bennett has escalated UVA, same for Wright at ‘Nova, but the list seems pretty short.
You'd have to look at which coaches have been at P5/high-major programs for 15+ years and see what their tourney results are.
I'm just not sure what the debate is, when your coach is 1-5 in S16 games.
 
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bonefish1

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That’s a pathetic analogy. There are 90-100 players in the Masters field. There are 350ish D1 teams. Finishing in the top 30% of the Masters is not the same as finishing in the top 4.6% (Sweet 16) of college basketball.

Even though he is only 52, Painter is 11th in tournament wins among active coaches. That’s very good.

You can HOPE for better results, but to EXPECT better results is simply ignorant.
There's only 64 teams in the tourney, not 350. So, making it to the S16 is finishing in the top 25%, not 4.6%.
 
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bonefish1

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What teams has Duke upset, for example? It’s hard to upset teams when you’re always a top seed. Yet they’ve had early exits to Mercer and South Carolina in the last years with supposedly the best coach of all time. Everyone gets upset
You can't hold it against Duke that they're usually a high seed. That's because Coach K built the program into that.
Duke has earned the right to have some poor NCAA appearances, because we know they're a perennial FF contender. Purdue and Duke shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence when it comes to tourney success discussions.
 

northside100

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You'd have to look at which coaches have been at P5/high-major programs for 15+ years and see what their tourney results are.
I'm just not sure what the debate is, when your coach is 1-5 in S16 games.
Depends upon the case you're trying to make. If the argument is that under MP Purdue has underperformed in the tournament relative to the regular season I agree, there's not much argument there.

If you're arguing that Purdue has underperformed in the NCAAT under MP relative to what you'd expect for a typical program that's probably somewhere in the 20 to 30 range in terms of national relevance, despite the 1-5 record in SS's, I haven't seen any data that supports that view.
 
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