Loyer "another dismal" performance, get Heide ready for tournaments , we need the players on the court who are getting better at the end ....Heide's earned it.
Time for Heide to start
- Thread starter Bleedinggoldandblack
- Start date
I'm fine having Loyer start. But if he ain't got it there's no sense dragging with a couple of microwaves on the bench.
Painter disagrees because he’s smart enough to look at more than just scoring.
Not sure what Loyer brings to the team lately. His defense is poor and now he’s passing up shots due to maybe a lack of confidence?
Heide has earned more playing time. One great game by no means earns a start going forward.
Now, if he replicates this stuff the rest of the way and Loyer continues to, well, not, then the calculus may change.
Yes Painter said Loyer played "great" and it's great he's sticking up for his player. But he didn't play great. But the reality is we DO need him to play great. Loyer has had a lot more great games than Heide by far. So I get Painter starting him because you don't know if this is the game he goes off in.
Having said that I hope Heide replicates this more going forward and Painter sees he has another option for when Loyer is struggling as he has been lately and feels more comfortable swapping him in there.
But Heide is going to have to replicate it over time, not just pop off in one game.
Heide needs more minutes. Played 19 tonight. Only played 20 combined the previous 3 games. Loyer isnt going to magically wake up. We have seen this from him before. Hes done. Whether its a lack of strength and him just wearing down or whatever it is its clear hes lost it again. Mentally he looks bad too, like terrified to shoot the ball. Passing on open 3s to drive to a congested lane and turn it over for breakout points. Painter can stick up for him tonight but the bottom line is he averages 1 assist and 2 rebounds a game. He isnt doing the other things near well enough to offset his poor shooting. They can either hope and pray Loyer wakes up like they did last year when they lost to a 16 or they can prepare in case he wont, which is likely.
Loyer averages fewer than 2 assists per game. Give me a break. And most of those are post feeds to Edey. You want to talk about “statistics,” then let’s take the entire sample size and not just one game.
This is peak cope by Painter and cherry picking one game. I get that he’s sticking up for his player but gimme a break with using that to make it seem like Loyer is some dynamo playmaker. If he’s not hitting shots, he brings little to nothing outside of good FT shooting.
Loyer was driving it well earlier in the year, which was somewhat surprising given his stature and lack of explosiveness, but that has been severely reduced AND he’s struggled to shoot. He’s not a good defender, and gets bullied on defense.
Heide has so much more upside, and upside is what leads to deep runs in Match.
Being stubborn and continuing to roll out “high-floor” but mostly ineffective players is what gets you beat by FDU again.
I don't have an opinion on the Heide vs Loyer. Both can get the minutes Painter feels works.
I will say Heide apart from shooting just looks more comfortable as the season continues, he's getting to the basket, moving better, he hasn't taken bad shots and isn't afraid to shoot when he's left open. Gillis and Heide are two of the calmest players I can recall on a top team.
Yup. This is where I'm at too. I'll go a step further and say Heide should get more mins regardless.
I don't care who starts. Start Loyer, I have absolutely nothing against him. If he is producing, give him the minutes. If he isn't producing, look elsewhere. We have other guys who can produce if given the opportunity. Painter is very "fixed" on his rotations and doesn't seem to stop and consider who is playing well THAT game and who isn't.
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I thought Cam was also much more active on the defensive end tonight with a steal, a rebound and some active hands plays. Looked very comfortable after hitting that first shot. Coach did stick with a hot hand as he actually got a second run in the first half that he normally doesn’t get in the normal rotation.
Start Loyer but at the 15 min mark when he puts Gillis and Morton in put Heide with them. Then about the 10 minute mark put Loyer and Jones in and sit Braden til the 8 commercial break. Also cut Loyer’s minutes to 15-20 and play Heide more. We have been bitching about this all year. It’s clear Miles isn’t going to get meaningful minutes but Heide needs more
"Upside" never won a game.
Stubborn is someone on a message board continuously acting as if they know more about Purdue's players, and about basketball, than Painter.
A fresher EVERBODY does this team good.
Should have sat some starters when up 30 with 10 mins left.
When the paint says loyer had a good game this is coaches talk. Similar to used car salesmen. You never go wrong by playing the best player. Right now it's Cam.
I didn’t see him passing up shots. From what I’ve seen recently, including last night, is that Fletch isn’t getting open. I thought he was good last night.
Who cares who starts, if he plays well , he will keep getting more minutes. Whether it is off the bench or starting matters zero.
I’m just wasting breath at this point but what Heide provides as a spot up shooter, particularly one that defenses are not targeting, is completely different than what Loyer provides. Fletch can create his own shot (admittedly he’s been inefficient doing that the last few games), Cam only puts the ball on the court against hard close outs.
Agree in general with getting Cam more minutes but suspect that will be dictated by matchups and situation.
Yeah, Painter is always going to stick up for his players...and should. What is he supposed to say? My two-year starting guard sucks and I'm gonna bench him?
But having Heide off the bench as a scoring option is definitely helpful, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Matt subtly work him further into the rotation.
A good three-point shooter can get their shots. Look at the shots Jones takes. They aren't the toes on the line type threes. A good three-point shooter doesn't need a lot of space to get his. Loyer is putting his head down and driving as his first option and only shooting threes when he has to. He's now taken 7 threes in 5 games. Even if he hit one or two more of those 7, it wouldn't be enough.
Agree with this. This idea that he is suddenly scared to shoot is nonsense. The other team has a say in whether Loyer gets open looks from 3 all night, and he's been taken away. Kid has started every game of his career on a team that has been basically the top team in the country the entire time. He's going to continue to start and Purdue needs him to.
There's no reason not to love what Heide can do and could become down the road, but he had a hero game last night. Quite literally couldn't miss. You don't react to that by immediately elevating him into the starting lineup. A few days ago it was Colvin should replace Loyer and now here we are with Heide.
I know a lot of you don't like stats but here's one for you if you:
Heide - 7 baskets last night
Morton- 7 baskets all season
Heide - 7 baskets last night
Morton- 7 baskets all season
Yep. It's funny how people don't understand how guys play and how they are defended. Loyer is the one guy on the team that opponent's rarely double off of. There is a reason for that. If he can play a good floor game and take one out the opponent's better defenders out of the equation, that creates opportunities for Purdue's other weapons to elevate their games.
I don't really get your point here. If a guy can't get open then he's still unproductive unless he contributes in other ways, which typically hasn't been Loyer's strong suite.
Purdue doesn’t need Loyer to force three point shots for the offense to run smoothly. The threat is taken very seriously by defenses and that is enough to open up opportunities for others.
Heide has more upside on both sides of the ball than Loyer. As of now, he's just a much better basketball player.
If teams are putting their best defender on Loyer at this point of the season then their coach needs to be fired. Smith and Jones have been much bigger threats. Jones has taken 7.1 threes a game in conference and is hitting 38% of them.
Loyer is hitting 35% from 2 in 15 conference games. If guys can just guard the three-point line without worry of Loyer making them pay, he's an easy guard.
My point is that he's not getting benched because we need him. Thought that was pretty clear tbh
Heide is the missing link CMP hasn't had for a long time. In past years we really didn't have someone like he, or to a certain extent Colvin, to go to... Heide is good enough to do what he did last night to anyone... He does still have some defensive issues from time to time but he brings a new look that teams can't prepare for. For him to step up like that last night is huge. He brought back quite a bit of confidence for me in how far this team can go... I'd like to continue to see him play at this level though. Give me around 10-12 point in a few more of the remaining games (doesn't have to be each night and he certainly doesn't need 18 per) and woah that brings a really nice new wrinkle to this team. It was great to see him step up and to see CMP allow him to step up.
IMO it also take eyes and pressure off Loyer and you may very well see Loyers jump straight out of his funk... I could totally see Loyer with a double digit game against Michigan. IF that is the case, we may be rolling back downhill... But lets see!
IMO it also take eyes and pressure off Loyer and you may very well see Loyers jump straight out of his funk... I could totally see Loyer with a double digit game against Michigan. IF that is the case, we may be rolling back downhill... But lets see!
Heide won’t start but should get more minutes. Louyer was not dismal. He missed two shots, but led the team in assists. He will start and Heide will likely come in after the 4 minute mark.
Loyer.
With 98 points, sure 5 assists is ok, I guess? Lots of opportunities for assists. But 3 of those assists were great passes not everyone could make. So more impressed by those 3 plays than his assist total with that many points. Btw Smith also had 5.
I do agree Heide will not start.
I don't disagree with your points but most teams aren't guarding Jones the same way that they guard Loyer.
I like Heide a lot, but 1 really good game doesn't mean he should be starting. Definitely should get more mins though.
Because the boxscore tells the whole story. No need to watch the games or practices to know exactly what Painter must do.
Good point, I'd forgotten about the six days between games. Really couldn't set up better if we take care of business in Ann Arbor. Six days off and it's then 'game on' with three of the season's toughest Big Ten games followed by BTT and NCAAT.
Those two are different tools for the team. Thus, your comparison is moot. About like comparing rebounds either got with Edey's. Makes no sense.
Well, not everyone will come out with double figures and 90% of the time its not about who you're playing to get out of a funk... Loyers put up 27 against one of the best defensive teams Purdue has played this year in Tennessee... He put up another 27 against Zona... We know he is capable of scoring against anyone... IF Loyer breaks back out against Michigan does he need to follow it up? No doubt, but getting out of the slump is priority 1 no matter who its against...
