Time for Heide to start
- Thread starter Bleedinggoldandblack
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They basically did. Zach only played 27 minutes. Braden 31. Zach just took his rest before Braden and never came back which accounts for the difference. Lance only played 27 as well.
46% Same % as Colvin. Quite less than Heide's 61%
Not sure that is the accurate story though....or what your point is??
Yea, Edey is 50% from 3 as well... Lol... Sample size matters. Heide has attempted 29, 3's to Loyers 104... Colven 44...
Yes. But actually I think the discussion was in conference.
Jones 114 3 pt attempts
Gillis 59
Loyer 52
Smith 36
Heide 18
Colvin 13
Well there is still a major disparity in attempts between those 3. I'm not saying Heide can't be as good as Loyer from 3, 41% for a season is not even remotely poor...
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Agree. Loyer btw is 46% in conf. Also like that Gillis is shooting more of them as his % is also great - 47%. I even like Jones 114 at a lower % ....as we rebound well & he has the guts to take them.
Loyer is 4-15 from three over the last seven games.
8-24 over the last nine.
The idea that maybe, just maybe, some of that is him and not stifling defense isn't crazy.
Does that mean bench him? No. But citing his overall percentage without noting the recent pattern isn't really being accurate.
He's never been the primary scoring option, or even the second. He's always been the third option behind Edey and Smith. And even that's debatable now with Jones. So yeah, I am sure he's on the scouting report to not let him go off but he's not getting Jordan treatment either.
Other players are finding a way to get their shots. Loyer needs to as well. Because yes there's going to be a game in the tournament when we will need him to win.
Yes Heide had a hero game. You don't swap out players because of one hero game. But, if he starts regularly elevating his game and Loyer doesn't return to form then yeah it becomes a present choice to be made.
8-24 over the last nine.
The idea that maybe, just maybe, some of that is him and not stifling defense isn't crazy.
Does that mean bench him? No. But citing his overall percentage without noting the recent pattern isn't really being accurate.
He's never been the primary scoring option, or even the second. He's always been the third option behind Edey and Smith. And even that's debatable now with Jones. So yeah, I am sure he's on the scouting report to not let him go off but he's not getting Jordan treatment either.
Other players are finding a way to get their shots. Loyer needs to as well. Because yes there's going to be a game in the tournament when we will need him to win.
Yes Heide had a hero game. You don't swap out players because of one hero game. But, if he starts regularly elevating his game and Loyer doesn't return to form then yeah it becomes a present choice to be made.
Sorry, The person I responded co compared him to Jones. That's why I said that.
Cam has had more opportunities to take minutes than Colvin and hasn’t done so.
Loyer is the better option starting at this point.
Cam needs Painter to reinforce trust in him taking more shots and giving him the minutes to show he can be consistent before we move Loyer to the bench. This shouldn’t stop Painter from playing the best 5 at the end of the game.
Thanks, Andy. I'm not saying I know more about basketball than Painter. I'm also not treating Painter as some infallible rocket scientist God like you are. He's human, and he's no genius. He's been wrong plenty, and he'll be the first to admit that.
Painter's teams have lost in back to back to back years to a 13 seed, 15 seed, and a 16 seed. This is unparalleled in the history of college basketball.
"Upside," may have never won a game, but awareness of a player's upside, and allowing for that upside to be realized, absolutely has won plenty of games. That's how teams get better over the course of a season.
That's why nobody wants to play the teams with top-talent come March, because they know that talent is there and they can see its potential to be honed more effectively with more experience and minutes.
It's also partially why Purdue has been able to seemingly dominate pre-season tournaments against big name teams like Duke, Gonzaga, UNC, Villanova, Tennessee, Marquette, etc. only to plateau and lose to the likes of North Texas, St. Peter's, and FDU.
Plenty of games have been lost by sticking to what's familiar and the status-quo.
The NCAA tournament is an entirely different animal than B1G conference play, and it requires a bit of a deviation from what is familiar.
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Agree Loyer has been abysmal the last 9 games. But he will & should still start.
Players should take the opportunity given to start chipping away at his minute total. Heide made a great case for himself. But one game. Need to do that a couple more times.
What is crazy to me though, as bad as Loyer has been, his minutes stay high. You would think coaches would notice. But more importantly bench players watching would clue into Loyer's disappearing acts and practice harder & take advantage. Maybe that's what Heide is doing?
Define high. In the 9 game sample you mention, he averaged 28 minutes in the first 5 and just 25 minutes in the last 4. So seems like there has been some adjustment.
But as has been discussed here and elsewhere multiple times, the 3 losses in the tournament were for entirely different reasons. Some people adopt a false narrative about Painter and the players, and stubbornly stick to it. And they believe that Painter is being stubborn because he and his staff don't ignore everything they see and follow the narrative of armchair coaches. Certainly he deserves blame for those losses, but it isn't because he stubbornly does the same thing year after year.
It amazes me that these complaints continue, stubbornly, even after a fantastic win against a team Purdue has struggled against.
20 is high for his current level of play. Actually, based on his performance of late, 20 is quite generous.
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I think Painter is playing him so he can shoot out of his slump. Remember how bad Carsen was shooting going into the 2019 tournament? Same thing.
That is exactly it. And I am glad Heide is emerging so CMP can use him off the bench. That way coaches can continue in getting them both ready for the ncaat.
I mean sure, and that's probably the thing to do. Just like he gave him those tech foul shots I'm sure to have him see it go through the net.
I don't think Painter is wrong for sticking up for him, or even starting him. Loyer has a better history of doing big things than the two possible replacements in Heide and Colvin. We are almost assuredly going to need him in a big tournament game.
But I don't think that leash is not should be infinite, and I think criticism of his play right now is pretty fair for the most part. Most posters aren't calling for him to be benched, most of us are saying it's past time for him to snap out of whatever funk he's in and start getting back to form.
And if he can't by the end of the regular season, then, well, ya gotta look at your options to put the best starting five out there for the tournament.
this. He has to come out of his slump. He is a huge part of Purdue's success to this point. Some people here have said that their biggest fear is facing a team with guards like Tennessee's or Arizona's in the tournament. Lower destroyed them. Some have even said that if Painter sticks with Loyer, we won't go far in the tournament. I think that if Loyer doesn't bounce back from whatever is ailing him, Purdue will struggle to advance. Painter knows that plugging Colvin in for Loyer isn't the answer.
He’s also made 4 of the last 6 sweet sixteens.
How many other coaches can say the same?
To make a final four you have to consistently put yourself in the 2nd weekend, and he’s been doing that.
Know his family very well, great folks. He’s a late bloomer, but with a great pedigree. His mom and dad were both scholarship hoopers at LaSalle back in the 90s. His grandpa Bruce Haynes was longtime HS coach in the state, and is an amazing guy to boot.
He’s the best athlete of the 3 Gizzi kids, I could see him developing into a B1G player. Will definitely have the body for it. Maybe a kid you make contact with and keep an eye on, as a possible portal option down the road…
He made 4 of the last 6 sixteens by beating teams his teams were supposed to beat i.e., in games where Purdue was favored. Sweet 16s are not some great accomplishment as a 1, 2, 3, or 4 seed. You basically have to win two games you're favored in.
If you can't see Painter's shortcomings in March, I don't know what to tell you. The 2019 team was the only team that really made a run. Every other team either lost when they were "supposed" to or fell insanely short and lost to a double digit seed.
Hopeful for a new narrative this year!
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So it’s not a great accomplishment to make a sweet sixteen, elite 8, or a final four if you were favored in every game to get there?
Offense set aside for a second , Loyers defensive performance is just non existent...he gets blown by over and over , watches on defense, we need it at both ends of the court, Lance and Smith play both ends, I'll take Heide s D as an upgrade any day and waiting for Loyer to have one of scoring games , history shows he's fatigued at this point ..
I agree with this , it's not about just making the tournament, as a one seed anything less than 16 is a failure which we glorified last year,If Painter doesn't make it happen this year , with this group past 1st round , then I support CMP as our new AD and let's get a new coach , maybe from OSU ☺️
Hopefully we can lose a bunch of games down the stretch so we can get a worse seed and not be favored in any games !! That would be a “new narrative” !!
Seems counterproductive to complicate a beautifully simple narrative with analytical thinking.
Elite 8 and Final Fours are in a different realm, typically, as they typically involve beating at least one top 15 team. Of course, there are exceptions—like when Purdue was gifted playing 15-seed St. Peter’s—but unfortunately Painter couldn’t capitalize.
Hopefully Painter’s team doesn’t lose to a double digit seed again. We shall see. I’m sure you’ll have another defense of Painter as he can do no wrong in your eyes.
So a successful season is NOT losing to a double digit seed in the NCAA?
Have you looked into rooting for IU ?
So it’s only an accomplishment to make a sweet sixteen, elite 8, or a final four if you beat a top 15 team on the way ?
Loyer was one of the few players that showed up vs fdu....
Loyers a valuable person to the team , his key role is knocking down 3's give him some rest breathing room , he'll contribute, however , get Heide time ...
At some point in this equation, not making shots versus making them does cancel SOME of that defensive advantage that Loyer has had. Colvin is getting better, working harder, you can see it. He's quicker and longer too, so if he works at it he could be better than Fletch. That's not now though. But if Fletch isn't getting better shooting his defense shouldn't be keeping him floor. That's not a slam, he works his ass off, all the time. But he's overmatched as much as not defensively. If Heide is shooting it as well AND gives you drive/finish skills and doesn't get killed defensively, he'll continue to get more minutes if Fletch doesn't start shooting better.
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