And how fast Coach Painter reacts and responds to his off shooting nights will tell the story on how far Purdue goes for the remainder of this season!
Loyer is the Key
- Thread starter ghostoffatjack
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Yup. And an absolute shame…why have 13 scholies and 11-12 capable players when you won’t play the younger guys.
I'm with you that Loyer is the key, but at this point we don't have many other options for offensive punch off the bench in the backcourt.
I still think we're fine and better off than last year with the addition of Jones, but like last year there was a lot of talk about us being a deep team when in reality we really only have 6 or 7 guys who have shown that they are capable of giving us more than 5 or 6 points on a given night. I'm being generous saying 7 because that 7th guy is Colvin and it seems someone's got in his ear and told him to not be aggressive in close games.
I still think we're fine and better off than last year with the addition of Jones, but like last year there was a lot of talk about us being a deep team when in reality we really only have 6 or 7 guys who have shown that they are capable of giving us more than 5 or 6 points on a given night. I'm being generous saying 7 because that 7th guy is Colvin and it seems someone's got in his ear and told him to not be aggressive in close games.
Yes, we have about 100+ other posts saying this same thing. Said it long before this game. Not a new problem. Frustrating isn't it?
Hopefully, our 2 & 3 aren't off on the same night again. Because coaches seem entrenched.
Yes, some of us have pointed this out for nearly 2 months now and it's only become more of an issue. Throughout this stretch, many felt that Colvin couldn't defend well enough or you had to let Loyer keep playing because "what if" he started hitting shots after starting the game 0-5....etc. Every reason why we shouldn't try other options, but the issue has basically just gotten worse over time and CMP has shown that he is planning to just ride Loyer as far as he can take us as far as the 2 guard position goes.
Yup! If it’s not working for Loyer- you have enough depth that you can try other guys instead of letting him slog through to no success.
Yep since Dec, I and others have said when the light switch is off, quit hoping for a light.
When Loyer is on, even marginally, he is a force. But when off, combined with his defensive liability it is hard to watch this over and over. But coaches don't seem to mind???
Trying not to be too much of a smart ass here, but no one should get brownie points for pointing out that it would be nice to have another option if Loter is struggling. The problem is you need someone who can both shoot from deep and create off the dribble. Cam doesn’t do that so you are left with Myles. There is no opinion around the quality of Myles’ defense and rebounding, it leaves a lot to be desired and in games like yesterday where we needed to get stops and were hurt at times by offense of rebounding, that’s a real problem. Hopefully Myles makes enough progress in practice and by watching film to mitigate those issues. Those are not just things you figure out in games when you play for a good team.
I mean at some point you just have to live with playing bad defense if it sparks the offense in small doses.
Run him out there for 3-5 offensive sets designed to free him up. If it doesn't work, it's not the game. If he hits a couple of threes, then he paid for himself and you can sit him again.
Maybe it wakes Loyer up as a side bonus.
If they don't want to do that then try Heide or even Gillis. I'd say Waddell but clearly the staff sees nothing there to give him non garbage time play.
Just running Loyer back out there in crunch time when he's slumping definitely isn't the answer
He’s very analytics based, and so he always thinks that there’s a 40% chance that Loyers next 3 is going in, but it doesn’t work that way in the heat of the moment. He misses his first couple looks and he loses his confidence.
Colvin doesn’t seem to be that way.
I don’t think Loyer’s defense and rebounding was any better than Myles’ would have been yesterday.
And Morton wasn’t shutting anyone down either.
and when he hits a couple of threes and plays no D and the coach sits him again, you and some others will be back here bitching again about how he's shown his skill and needs to play full time!
On the flip side, you also have to score to win and we had someone play 19 minutes and not even take a shot. And I'm still trying to figure out what he does defensively so well to warrant PT.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Come Tourney time we'll wish at somepoint 2 of our most athletic players on the peremiter, Heide and Colvin, were productive. Possibly giving them more PT and developing them throughout the year would have helpe. We'll never know. But we do know that we're not scoring on the peremiter at a clip we'll need in the Tourney when Morton is on the floor.
This! I don't understand why I keep seeing that Morton has to play for his D. Since when did he become a lockdown defender?
Yup said it early in the year got nothing but flack because Purdue was winning games... As the year has progressed this bench shortening deal kills us come end of season... I've actually been disappointed with Colvin when he has been out there because in his short minutes you will almost always see him get lost defensively. Whether its his man or placing himself in a position to get a rebound he always is thinking and losing track of his job defensively... I would have liked to see Heide more than we have seen him... Regardless, as people have pointed out Loyer isn't exactly a defensive stalwart so why not play Colvin more minutes when Loyer can't hit the broad side of a barn... Why not next game start Heide over Loyer... Send a message... Won't happen but why not?
Morton can’t shoot, he plays great D but he’s a 10-15 minute guy max. If it’s not Fletcher it would have to be Colvin, not sure he’s ready yet. I think Fletcher will be ok, he’s in a shooting slump, it happens.
I've said the same. Almost like he was anointed the defensive stopper because we typically have one...Kramer, Davis, Mathias, Eastern type defenders. Morton just isn't that.
Most didn't come out with energy yesterday, but I thought Morton really came out lazy and lacked any type of fire.
He’s not all that, but better than some of our players on defense. They try to hide Loyer on defense, but when he gets exposed here comes Morton.
That's 10-15 minutes you're playing 4 vs. 5 for a guy that doesn't really play great D. Who did he shut down yesterday?
Mort played well against MN. Against OSU was a non factor.
I’m fine with giving him a chance in a game, but if he can’t lock someone down, put someone with a jump shot in. He was good against MN, yesterday not so much.
Yep. Instead of replacing Loyer with another scoring opton (Heide or Colvin) we bring in someone that doesn't shoot and isn't a lock down defender. Ultimately, instead of trying to develop Hedie or Colvin or at least salvage some offense from them when Loyer can't play, we'll resort to playing someone who is afraid to shoot and can't really take an opponent out of the scoring column.
I agree. MN was one game that you could say that he definitely limited somebody from scoring. Just saying there haven't been many cases where you could say that he definitively locked a guy down when he came in.
Ohio State has athletes on the perimeter. Morton isn't locking down anyone who is an above average perimeter talent. He may become an annoying speedbump, but he won't keep anyone from scoring and he sure as hell won't score himself.
That doesn't strike me as a rotation piece for a team that aspires to be National Champions.
First of all Loyer isn’t in a shooting slump he is in a playing slump, which means defense and offensively he’s not helping . Heide and Colvin need to know that they can play free and not worry about being pulled on any mistakes. Heide is my answer because he is ahead on the defensive side and rebounding side, he can play the 3 spot and make us bigger and better
Hard for me to believe that Heide or Colvin are worse on defense than Loyer. Maybe they are, but not enough playing time at least for me to tell. Loyer must be so much better offensively than these two to warrant the majority of the minutes.
I don't think there's any factual basis for that opinion. I don't mean that as an insult but Myles objectively a worse rebounder and defender than either Loyer or Morton and the view that 'he can't be any worse' is hopelessly flawed.
Now as other have pointed out, maybe you have to live with worse rebounding and defense to because you need his offense but that's not the same as ignoring the fact that there's a trade off there. Hopefully Myles keeps getting meaningful minutes and can close the gap in those areas through hard work in practice and film study. I think the young man has a lot of 'want to', he just came in so far behind that it's taking time to catch up.
My only concern with Cam is that he hasn't shown that he can create his own shot but agree that he's a much better rebounder than Loyer or Myles and probably makes more mistakes on defense than Fletcher but certainly holds up better physically.
Really depends on matchups and how the rest of the backcourt is playing and what the defense is giving up. Morton is excellent on defense and facilitating on offense in some situations (second half against MN was exceptional on both ends, shut down Christie and moved the ball on offense contributing to a huge scoring half) but he certainly didn't help the offense yesterday.
Agree with your assessment that it would be great to have Cam and Myles be more productive. In my experience if you're not improving in practice you're not going to magically get better in games but you certainly have the right to your view on giving those two more game time minutes.
I just posted elsewhere but IMO Heide is not, he makes some mistakes but at least knows what's going on. Myles is still struggling. I haven't seen Cam consistently create off the dribble when the defense is crowding the three point line but he has shown a few flashes and maybe he needs more chances. He can certainly finish at the rim, just haven't seen any type of pull up game. I guess when Fletcher is getting manhandled and not getting calls he's not helping that regard either.
Hasn't had the chance to show it to you. Pretty sure the coaches have a better idea of what these guys do well than you or me.
he's good at playing hot potato on O and he's a pretty good defender but he played 19 mins yesterday, too much
And yet, you know coaches/"experts" are human too and have blind spots of their own, right?
Painter can either remain stubborn and change nothing after this OSU loss, or he can reflect and try some different things. I seriously hope he is thinking about last year's loss to FDU, and the year before to St. Peter's.
We can all benefit from questioning our own beliefs and convictions, and that includes Painter.
we got to push tempo more like earlier in the season, the guards would pass then move now it seems like Smith is dribbling too much out front, guys standing around and have to do something late in the shot clock
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