He was a SG/SF out of high school with PG like skills. Maybe you did, but I didn't see enough from him last year to categorize him as a true PG. This could have been because of his limited minutes, but even in limited minutes, I would expect a true PG to have a good Ast/to ratio.
Floor To Ceiling
- Thread starter nagemj02
- Start date
Well he was 6’6” in high school. Did he play point at all? I don’t see the rational as to what makes a true point. Assist to TO ratio is suppose can be used, but as a Frosh I am not sure those numbers are fair.
Seems silly to me anyway knowing how Purdue has always had an offense where the point isn’t a true point role anyway. Now that everyone is trying to play positionless ball, I find it more odd that it was mentioned the way it was. If he can bring the ball up and start the offense, then he will be no different than past points at Purdue. We already know he can guard three quarters court and guard points. What am I missing?
I better get with the OP here.
I can see us struggling all year with finding the right combo or I can see this team gel quickly as they are all relatively new, yet skilled.
21-26 wins and a top five finish in conference.
I can see us struggling all year with finding the right combo or I can see this team gel quickly as they are all relatively new, yet skilled.
21-26 wins and a top five finish in conference.
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My son was the PG for Evanston 4 years he was there he also played other positions depending what the opposing team defense through at him. He’s the all time leading assist rebounding points in school history. Every team he has ever played on he ran the point his leadership skills was the reason teams won so many games. His IQ and vision had team confused bcuz teams could not figure out how to contain a player who was so unselfish but also a very dangerous scored. He was and still a matchup nightmare bcuz of his versatility. His unique ability to make a team around him better is what makes him a pure PG bcuz he was the coach on the court and that is what the coaches want from him this year. He will play PG in the league trust and believe you will see this season how good a PG he is.
You are correct he played PG and 3 other positions but his thought process is PG. one game I remember in HS he had 1 point but every player on the team scored he dished out 10 assists and I believe had 8 rebounds and blew that team out by 30 bcuz of his unselfishness players wanted to play with him. Bcuz he’s 6”7 doesn’t mean he isn’t a PG. you not a PG bcuz you 5”7 PG definition is what my son brings to a team bcuz of his ther qualifies he brings to a team. Season can’t get here quick enough he will put those questions to rest
M51, we mean the range for Purdue this year, not IU. You seem to have misunderstood the question.
Missed the 20 game conf schedule. See 2-4 losses pre-conf. Nine wins max, prob will be 8. Conf see at least 7-8 road losses. And a Painter coached team always loses a home game or two that we should have won. Best conf rec would be 12-8. Lowest number of wins - 17. High side 21.
Let me introduce our newest troll, ‘killnada’. No doubt a fellow of fine intelligence as you can tell from his TLA response. Perhaps his saliva dropped on his keyboard shorting it out, before he could enlighten us further?
If you don't want to be called a troll don't post like a troll. If you have an informed opinion there can be a discussion, even if your opinion is clearly biased and uninformed. Here, I'll do it for you.
16 total wins
6-5 OOC
16 total wins
6-5 OOC
- losses @TX, @FSU, vs ND and two losses in Charleston tourney
- wins vs Fairfield, Ball St., RMU, OU, Belmont and one win in Charleston
- Three losses vs MSU, vs Nebraska, vs IU
- Seven losses @IU, @MD, @UM, @MSU, @Nebraska, @Minny, @Wisky
I'll say this. Purdue has one of the toughest conference schedules of any B10 team. Of their 6 home and aways, 5 are against opponents who will likely finish in the top half of the B10 (Indiana, Maryland, Michigan State, Nebraska, and Ohio State) and the other is Penn State where I believe we typically struggle. I could realistically see us dropping 5 of those road games as well as losing to MSU at home. That's 6 losses in 12 games right there. After that there's home against Illinois, Iowa Rutgers and then away games against Michigan, Northwestern, and Wisconsin. I think Purdue gets screwed there again. Purdue will win those 3 home games but those are games you prefer to play on the road because you should be able to beat those teams on the road anyway. I'd much rather play a combination of Michigan, Northwestern, and Wisconsin at home and Illinois, Iowa, and Rutgers on the road instead of vice versa. I see Purdue going 4-2 in those game (losses @ Michigan and @ Wisconsin). That right there is 10-8 in conference and when you break it down that way I think it's hardly trolling.
Purdue has a fairly hard non-con schedule as well and with an inexperienced team playing away from Mackey a bunch there could be some hiccups and growing pains. We know Purdue gets Davidson in their first round match-up in Charleston and while I expect Purdue to win, Davidson is always a well-coached team and a perennial NCAAT qualifier, they gave UK a run for their money last year. Win that I expect we'll get Wichita State who like us is turning over a whole new roster. And then win or lose we'll likely get VT or Alabama. VT will be a preseason top 20 team and I suspect will be the favorite going into the tournament. I'm predicting we go 2-1 and lose in the finals to VT but we could very well go 1-2. Road games at Texas and FSU will be very tough and a neutral game in Indy against ND and it's not out of the question to think Purdue goes 7-4, possibly 6-5 in the non-conference.
I think the floor in terms of wins next year is 17 and I think the ceiling is 23. Wins may be hard to come by next year but with such a strong regular season the opportunity to build a nice tourney resume is there even if Purdue only wins 20 games. I personally think Purdue is 20-11 heading into the Big Ten tournament but don't think for one second that anyone who says Purdue may only win 17 or 18 games is trolling. It's a tough schedule with a young team.
Edit: I missed Minnesota as a team we play home and away next year. Should be two more wins that raises the floor a game or two as well as the ceiling.
Purdue has a fairly hard non-con schedule as well and with an inexperienced team playing away from Mackey a bunch there could be some hiccups and growing pains. We know Purdue gets Davidson in their first round match-up in Charleston and while I expect Purdue to win, Davidson is always a well-coached team and a perennial NCAAT qualifier, they gave UK a run for their money last year. Win that I expect we'll get Wichita State who like us is turning over a whole new roster. And then win or lose we'll likely get VT or Alabama. VT will be a preseason top 20 team and I suspect will be the favorite going into the tournament. I'm predicting we go 2-1 and lose in the finals to VT but we could very well go 1-2. Road games at Texas and FSU will be very tough and a neutral game in Indy against ND and it's not out of the question to think Purdue goes 7-4, possibly 6-5 in the non-conference.
I think the floor in terms of wins next year is 17 and I think the ceiling is 23. Wins may be hard to come by next year but with such a strong regular season the opportunity to build a nice tourney resume is there even if Purdue only wins 20 games. I personally think Purdue is 20-11 heading into the Big Ten tournament but don't think for one second that anyone who says Purdue may only win 17 or 18 games is trolling. It's a tough schedule with a young team.
Edit: I missed Minnesota as a team we play home and away next year. Should be two more wins that raises the floor a game or two as well as the ceiling.
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so if two people reach and post the same conclusion, but one poster explains his reasoning in a long post and one just posts a one liner, the one liner is called a troll, but the person who provides a logical explanation is not? two posters have just said the floor is 17 wins. one is called names, while the other is respected. Does anybody see the problem here?
So if a person were to predict 28-30 wins and a final 4 berth, i n a one liner prediction post, without providing any reasoning for their conclusion or thinking process, shouldn't that person also be called a troll? Wasn't that what a lot of posters did last year? Shouldn't we be calling all those positive posters who predicted national championships and final 4 a troll because they also provided no reasoning for their opinions? or if they always say positive things about our team, they are called fans and not trolls? Double standards?
So if a person were to predict 28-30 wins and a final 4 berth, i n a one liner prediction post, without providing any reasoning for their conclusion or thinking process, shouldn't that person also be called a troll? Wasn't that what a lot of posters did last year? Shouldn't we be calling all those positive posters who predicted national championships and final 4 a troll because they also provided no reasoning for their opinions? or if they always say positive things about our team, they are called fans and not trolls? Double standards?
I think you just stated the definition of a "floor". A floor is the low end of what could realistically happen but would have a slim chance of actually happening that way. Now, I agree that the 16 win floor seems a little lower than I would expect, but people have different opinions, that doesn't make them trolls.
My prediction would be a 17 win floor (missing the tourney) and a 22 win ceiling (gets in and loses in the Sweet 16).
I think 23 wins should be the reasonable expectation.
Fairfield - W
Ball State - W
Charleston Classic - likely 3 Ws, but for grins we will call this 2 Ws
Robert Morris - W
@Texas - W (Mo Bamba gone. Have some good players coming in, non projected to be dominant as freshmen. Very young. At worst, this should be a coin flip).
Notre Dame - W (Coleen gone and they weren't great last year).
Ohio - W
Belmont - W
Acc/Bigten challenge -
Illinois - W
Indiana - W
Iowa - W
Maryland - W
@Maryland - W
@Michigan - Coin flip
MSU - coin flip
@MSU - Coin flip (likely split here)
Minnesota- W
Nebraska - W
@Nebraska - coin flip (worst case is a split)
Northwestern - W
Ohio State - W (no KBD, no overachieving here)
Penn State - W
@ Penn State - W (worst case, coin flip)
Rutgers - W
@Wisconsin - coinflip
Worst case 18 wins (and that's presuming they don't beat any good teams and lose a game they absolutely should win. Again I put this at around a 1% chance, and absolute worst case scenario).
22-23 wins should be the bottom expectation. Easily attainable so long as we don't lose more than 2 head scratchers and grab a few tough games on the road. 25 wins should be considered a good season, but they will be judged on tournament success as always.
Purdue will lose a few that make no sense and win a couple tough matchups.
That looks like best case scenario.
One, we play Indiana and Ohio State twice and they weren't listed as an away opponent. MSU will be a preseason top 15 team, that isn't a coin flip game on the road and many of the other games you listed on the road aren't coin flips either. It's extremely hard to win on the road in the B10 and listing teams like Michigan State and Michigan and then possibly teams like Nebraska and Indiana who are likely going to be ranked when we play them on the road and calling them coin flips is looking at it in best case scenario.
Two, yes Texas loses Mo Bamba but they still bring a bunch back from a team who made the tournament and they also bring in a top 10 class. Again calling that game a coin flip is absolute best case scenario. Purdue more than likely will be a 5 or 6 point underdog going into that game on the road. Our ACC/B10 challenge opponent is FSU who made the elite 8 last year. They also return a good nucleus and will also likely be a top 20 team when we play them on the road. Purdue again should be a pretty significant underdog.
Three, Notre Dame. Notre Dame like us loses a bunch of seniors. But they also bring in a top 10 class as well. I would say this would be the one game that you could theoretically call a coin flip as it is at a neutral site and both teams will be relying on a lot of unproven commodities.
Four, Charleston Classic. Virginia Tech will be the favorite going into the tournament. I think we should beat Davidson and Wichita State will be a very good game and a close one either way. I wouldn't say 3 wins is likely more than it is best case scenario. I would say 2 wins is the likely outcome, either Davidson and Wichita State while losing to VT in the championship or Wichita State and beating Alabama in the third place game.
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This is homer-ism at it's worst. As stated by the previous poster, this looks more like a best case, not worst case. On the road against MSU is a coin flip? Come on. If road games aren't that tough and those are all coin flips, then I would expect Purdue's home games against Maryland, Nebraska, Indiana, Minnesota and OSU to also be more like coin flips than clear wins.
Question: You said you don’t hang on the IU home board due to the Homer’s.
Why are you on the Purdue home board if not to point out that we too, have Homer’s?
I'm here because it's interesting to hear the perspectives of rival fans. I hear the perspectives of other IU fans on the premium board I'm a part of, I don't need to frequent the free IU board to hear the rest of the over the top perspectives. And wouldn't ever pay money to be a part of a premium Purdue board to hear their perspectives, so here I am on the free Purdue board to hear what you have to say. Does that clear it up?
I'm beginning to like Cheeseman. he at least is honest about his loyalties and offers an opinion. Admittedly, it usually contradicts many here. Mathboy said earlier that trolls are easy to spot. I hate to say it, but so are homers. and which one is worse?
I’m not sure you need to respond to hear what we say.
If your intent is in good faith, perhaps leave the Homer’s to their opinions and just discuss with those you feel are being reasonable. Think of it like your reading your premium board and a rival fan calls out one of your buddies. Would you think, “oh, well he is just here to get our perspective”, or would you think, “this cat is here to start trouble”?
You're right, I don't need to comment to hear perspectives, but I do like to give input from time to time. I admit I probably get carried away sometimes when I see something posted that I think is kinda ridiculous, and then it brings me to comment. We all have our faults.
It's called having arguably the best player in the nation with a good supporting cast. EB, Eastern, Wheeler, and Haarms are about as good of a supporting cast as you could ask for. The question is depth and general experience.
The argument you have that this is a homer is because I don't think MSU sweeps Purdue? I put it as a possible split. Then, when adding up the math for the overall worst case, I didn't count either as a win. MSU should take a significant step backwards, I certainly am not saying pre-season Purdue losss both. I put coinflip as the games I am not willing to write off as a W. Of the games you complained about, OSU is the closest to a coinflip to me. Doesn't mean that Purdue can't lose to, let's say Illinois at home... This is also nowhere near best case. Best case would keep all of the Ws and split the coinflips (28 wins to keep it simple).
You stated you thought my prediction was best case. 18 guaranteed wins and you think that is best case? Get out of here with that garbage take.
Purdue isn't going to lose every single tough game. They will have some head scratching losses that makes me want to throw the tv down the hallway, sure, but that should even out with games they win over tough teams/away games.
You are not looking at this objectively and for some reason have it in your mind that your opinion is fact. You are looking at this as an IU fan hoping Purdue fails. Predictions are often wrong, especially with so many games and the possibility of injuries. But I stand by my way to early prediction as being fair and reasonable. I love the pieces Purdue has, and I think this team is special. Last year I predicted the team would not take a step back and could have a better year even with Biggie leaving. I was correct. Even when there were a lot of naysayers. I view this team similarly. If Eastern and Haarms take the sophomore jump and Wheeler can play like a second year player out of his redshirt year, the ceiling is very high. I also expect EB to come in and be very affective (that dude will be very very good for Purdue). Then you factor in having a preseason all-American, I would say 18 wins is literally absolute, wheels fall off and burst into flames, worst case scenario. Insinuating that 18 wins is best case scenario is laughable and should be considered troll status.
What I thought was unreasonable is that in your worst case scenario, you didn't pick ANY games on the schedule as a for sure loss? I understand that in a best case scenario, you would assume a chance in all of those. But in worst case, I would expect you to at least have one game that you straight up call a loss. For example, if I were to look at a worst case for Indiana, I would straight up say that away games at MSU, Wisconsin and Nebraska are losses....because it's worst case.
I'm not really debating your 18 win number, just your listing of the schedule results. Not even sure how you counted 18. If I count only the ones where you said "W", and count none of the coin flips, I still count 19 wins. As I said earlier in this thread, my worst case for Purdue would probably be 17 wins, so the 18 number isn't much different than what I think. It just seems that in a worst case scenario some of those games would be expected losses, not just coin flips. And saying that the worst case scenario is a 1% chance of happening.....sounds a little optimistic. You could be right, I'm just saying looking at that schedule of results seems pretty optimistic for being a "worst case".
Edit: After reading your response again, I DO NOT mean to say that 18 wins is more like best case, I meant that the way you estimated what is a for sure win and what is a coin flip, with no for sure losses, is more like a best case. As I stated earlier, my best case for Purdue would probably be 22 wins.
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As I said....
You're right, I don't need to comment to hear perspectives, but I do like to give input from time to time. I admit I probably get carried away sometimes when I see something posted that I think is kinda ridiculous, and then it brings me to comment. We all have our faults.
Facts don't care about your feelings. How I listed the games makes no difference if I called them a coinflip or an L, then they were counted as an L for worst case.
You then commented my schedule was more like best case as 18-19 wins. Then you finally acknowledged you were wrong and pointed out my assessment of worst case was only a game off of yours. You are arguing for the sake of arguing in troll fashion.
I list 18-19 wins as 1% chance because that is literally everything falls apart scenario. Worst case... and the chances of that are slim to none. Your best case scenario is what I view as fair expectations. 28 ish wins would be best case. Best case scenario is Carsen continues to improve, wins MVP, and improves his ppg. Haarms fulfills his replacement of Haas but is more mobile on defense and a better shooter. Eastern is an all-American defender, continues to rebound, and improves his scoring to about 10 ppg limiting turnovers. EB comes in and has Vince like impact and gets about 12 ppg with 4-5 rebounds a game. Wheeler is athletic getting around 10 ppg as an efficient scorer and does well on the defensive end. Then the backups all contribute. I think that is a reasonable best case and I think that could get 28 wins. That's a difference of 9 games from best to worst case. That isn't an unreasonable spread. You have been called out as a troll and I have fully explained why I feel you are trolling. 28 wins is far from unrealistic, it's just unlikely. But it is far more likely than 17 wins.
Last year is the example I come back too. If I said sweet 16 and 30 wins, people would have lost your mind last year and said no way. Yet, they did it after losing Biggie. This next year's team has the talent to be a top 4 team in the Big and compete for a Big title, but we will have to see if they can put it all together.
I will be dissapointed with a 22 win season. Won't quit my fandom and yell fire Painter, but that would be a disappointment to me.
Painter has certainly earned a down year, so I will not be on the fire Painter bandwagon if we don't make the tourney next year. I will jump on that bandwagon if we were to miss the tournament in back to back seasons, though.
Just to be clear, are you counting 28 wins as your regular season win ceiling or 28 total wins including the B10 tournament and postseason? Big difference there as I believe Cheeseman was only including regular season wins. There's a much better chance Purdue wins closer to 17 or 18 regular season games than 28. If Purdue goes 28-5 in the regular season next year, they will be a 1 or 2 seed. I think Purdue will be 21-12, 22-11 heading into the B10 tournament which is a lot closer to 17-18 wins than 28 wins. A 9 game swing in the regular season is a much bigger difference than you are making it out to be. It's the difference between being a 1 or 2 seed and likely playing in the NIT.
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lol alright man, didn't mean to start an argument. You have your opinion, I have mine. Not trying to ruffle your feathers, just was surprised to not see any games you would surely expect to lose in a worst case scenario.
But I did, counting them all as losses in worst case. Hence... worst case. You just ignored it. You also seem to not understand "best case". That means if everything is going right, and with all the potential and literally one of the best players in the nation. Best case is much closer to 30 than 20. Doesn't mean I think Purdue will get best case, but certainly more likely Purdue hits best case over worst case.
I’m not a Purdue fan, but your assertion that you’d be disappointed with 22 wins?
That’s really harsh.
Purdue has one starter returning; only one guy who played 20 mpg.
They have four guys on their roster who have ever averaged five mpg for a power five team, no top 100 recruits coming in, and only three guards on the roster.
If they win 22 they’ll likely make the tourney, and Painter will have done a GREAT job in my opinion.
My thoughts exactly. If Purdue wins 22 games going into the B10 tourney with that schedule, they’re likely a 5 seed with a chance to still improve their stock with a strong showing in the BTT. Can’t find many teams who graduate 4 seniors and don’t bring in a big time recruiting class and not expect to take a pretty significant step back.
