Our two freshman guards vs last years is basically Loyer and Smith vs Ivey and Sasha. Ivey was the 5th overall pick in the draft and loved watching his talents at Purdue. Sasha was fantastic as well, great spot up shooter and passer into the post his podcast and I loved every minute of both of those players, but the combination of Smith and Loyer is better than Sasha and Ivey. Smith is fierce and a true point guard who makes everyone better, better defender shoots near 90% at the line and breaks the press easier and doesnt turn the ball over as much. Loyer is a crafty scorer and is not just a spot up shooter. He gets to the hole and knows how to draw fouls. better free throw shooter and I dont think we have seen the best of him there yet. What seperates him from last year or from Sasha is his ball handling and these two freshman have a high basketball IQ and I'm just enjoying this team and this season and keep dreaming of how dominate Purdue can be if Edey possibly comes back next year with the 2 red shirt freshman and Colvin coming in and just everyone a year older and better. Enjoy the ride everyone this team is flat out special.
This year's guards vs last year's
- Thread starter JeremyThePoolMan
- Start date
While your points are strong, I would make the comparison with Hunter instead of Sasha. Even though he wasn't a true PG, that was technically what he was doing as the main initiator of the offense most trips down the floor.
I wouldn't use Ivey in the comparison. The guy was a lottery pick and one of the best athletes in college basketball. We don't have a comparable.
But, I think Sasha and Hunter/IT compared to Loyer and Smith, it's not even close. Loyer has a much more well rounded game than SS and Smith is better than Hunter or IT in every aspect: shooting, ball handling, penetration, dribble drive, etc.
But, I think Sasha and Hunter/IT compared to Loyer and Smith, it's not even close. Loyer has a much more well rounded game than SS and Smith is better than Hunter or IT in every aspect: shooting, ball handling, penetration, dribble drive, etc.
Smith is better than hunter and it combined, not even close.
Ivey was and will be big time pro with all star potential waiting for him but at Purdue mostly off guard Smith is pure point and we haven’t had one in a while full court pressure doesn’t bother him much he can learn on the fly
I’d compare Ivey/Hunter/Sasha/IT to Loyer/Smith/Morton/Jenkins. Last year’s group certainly would have the edge in talent (considering it included Ivey), but I think that this year’s group is playing much better as a unit. Offensively, the two groups are close, with last year’s team free lancing more (and getting away with it because Ivey was incredibly talented) and this group playing with far more discipline and cohesion. This year’s group is playing much better defensively.
Smith is far better than what we had last year at the point, Loyer isn't better than what we had at the 2 or 3 last year. Go back and look at the numbers. Sasha has better numbers than Loyer across the board. Shooting percentages (overall, 3pt and FT), rebounding and assists. Turnovers are the same. And no, Loyer doesn't do all the little things. I would hope Loyer will be better than Sasha in the future but a freshmen Loyer is not a significant improvement over a senior Sasha. It's a push at best.
Last years #1 (PG) Thompson/Hunter can not match this years #1 (PG) Smith/Jenkins. Smith/Jenkins have a much better basketball IQ, playmaking ability, nose for the ball (Smith…anticipates very well a basketball bounce coming off the rim and hence in position for a rebound to compensate for his size) and shooting ability. Last years #2 (SG) Stefanovich also can not match this years #2 (SG) Loyer/Jenkins. Sasha could only catch and shoot whereas this year’s #2 (SG) Loyer/Jenkins has a more complete game…can drive to the basket, fake and reset to shoot as well as create own shot if need be. Defensively…#1 and #2 were a defensively liability…not Smith, Loyer and Jenkins which defend very well. At Ohio State (attended the game)…Smith broke up the play defensively at the end where OSU thru up a prayer after Smith had his hand on the ball knocking it loose momentarily effectively preventing OSU getting off a good shot as an example.
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I would consider Ivey a #3 (SF) with his athleticism to play that position vs Morton which is not a fair comparison given Ivey’s talent and athleticism (NBA talent)…but I think Morton is our best defender on this year’s team.
It is a nice advantage for Purdue to have Edey in the middle to defend the basket either blocking a shot or altering a shot. Edey does not have to block it to be effective…just knowing he is there to at least change the shot is a game changer.
It is a nice advantage for Purdue to have Edey in the middle to defend the basket either blocking a shot or altering a shot. Edey does not have to block it to be effective…just knowing he is there to at least change the shot is a game changer.
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Loyer has a much better dribble/drive game than SS. Loyer also has a unique ability to finish in the lane. That just wasn't a part of SS game. I'd also argue the Loyer is much better under pressure and clutch. SS seemed to disappear in big games too often.
But to date Sasha is/was a superior three point shooter. Sasha's career efg% was around 55%. Loyer's is not quite 49% this year. Loyer's 3-point % is currently lower than Ivey's was last year.
He's far exceeding expectations but he's not an improvement over what we had last year. No shame in that. He's filling the role of a lottery pick and a 5th year senior.
Smith on the other hand is a huge improvement at the point.
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I agree. Loyer is better under pressure and so far less streaky. Sasha was so on and off it made me pull my hair out.
Sasha played Morton's position. Thus this is moot.
Loyer is better than Sasha. Sasha was almost exclusively a spot-up shooter (had a few occasional drives when guys would close out) and wasn't a good defender.
Loyer has a mid-range game, is a better ball-handler, and is able to drive it more.
No one beats watching Jaden Ivey for amazement, athleticism and excitement. Sasha? Catch and shoot (especially at Mackey), money.
Both were coaches' kids. What troubled me about Ivey were his lapses on defense and offensive team schemes..
Smith, Loyer and Morton understand and play the whole floor better. Together.
I have not looked at actual numbers that "might" present a better picture, but it seems as though when Jaden took the reins a bit longer that Sasha decreased as though there was somewhat an inverse relationship in effectiveness between more freedom (Jaden) and more structure (Sasha). If true, the next question is or was...at what time inside the clock should more freedom increase and more structure decrease, but I asked that many times last year...
If he would just have faced the right way.. always dribbled leading with his back butt....just saying 😄
I would say last year's guards, Ivey, Sasha, and hunter, had more individual talent than this year's, smith, loyer, Morton.....but together this year's is better together when you factor in defense, versatility, production.....our identity this year revolves around Zach and our guards complement him better....now Zach this year is better than the edey/Williams combo last year which might be skewing the results, but it's hard to deny how cohesive our guards are this year compared to last....this team is just so much better than last it's very noticeable....
hopefully Loyer works on getting physically stronger, that picture of Smith w/ his arms extended on the On3 site , you can tell he works on his body, good to see
Talent wasn't the issue for last year's guards. Midway through the season, the team became a showcase for Jaden and lived and died by his performances (9 pts vs St Peter's). The ball stopped moving so he could iso and show scouts he had range.
Jaden also had the athleticism to play defense, but seemed inclined to save himself for offense.
Jaden also had the athleticism to play defense, but seemed inclined to save himself for offense.
Don’t think I saw Sasha, IT or Hunter consistently get to the rim or hit midrange so not sure I understand the argument that their talent was collectively better.
This unit gels and works so much better together and all seem to have a different level of understanding of the game. Between Morton, Loyer, and Smith, would be shocked if one of them doesn’t end up on our staff in one way or another.
Didn't he also have 6 TO's in that game.Yea that sure a pleasure watching that shit show.
Shit shown indeed. And you could see it coming from the other losses late in the season.
But that is also precisely why we won't repeat last March. Our superstar is the most efficient player in the country (PER higher than Zion Williamson) who doesn't inhibit the flow of the offense.
The biggest difference... Edey. I noticed even in the IU game, Smith doesn't necessarily seem to care to chuck up a floater because Edey will have a shot at an offensive board. That security blanket for 33 minutes is incredibly helpful mentally. Last year's team didn't quite gel but Painter has never coached a talent like Ivey before. That was something very new for him. But I do think you replace Loyer with Ivey and the ceiling for this Purdue team goes from "still doubting they can win a title" to "sure fire champions and anything less is a failure."
Well yeh. Ivey was never ever a primary ball handler UNTIL we didn't have one and needed that from him.
Was not his role or nearly a strength, but he did what we needed to the best of his ability.
People dissing on Ivey for not being Superman is just crazy talk.
That said, a TEAM with a great qb will always beat a single super talent.
And both together,,,,, well as you suggest, that's a sure fire champion.
Missed it by ONE year.........
but still might with a different superstar AND great qb
Well yeh. Ivey was never ever a primary ball handler UNTIL we didn't have one and needed that from him.
Was not his role or nearly a strength, but he did what we needed to the best of his ability.
People dissing on Ivey for not being Superman is just crazy talk.
That said, a TEAM with a great qb will always beat a single super talent.
And both together,,,,, well as you suggest, that's a sure fire champion.
Missed it by ONE year.........
but still might with a different superstar AND great qb
I don’t diss on Ivey for not being Superman, I diss on Painter for letting him try to be Superman.
It would have been even dumber to try and hold him back.
OOPs. Probably needed to wait a couple of days before starting this thread.
Friday, one might agree and after yesterday....Not so much. We'll see what happens on Thursday.
I'll wait and see how it plays out the rest of the year before placing my final judgment.
Friday, one might agree and after yesterday....Not so much. We'll see what happens on Thursday.
I'll wait and see how it plays out the rest of the year before placing my final judgment.
This is where I think people miss. The key to Purdue is Edey. It starts and stops there. Yes Smith is a better point guard than what we had last year but Edey is significantly better than last year at both ends of the court. Everything Purdue does is centered around Edey offensively and defensively. On offense its feeding the post, pick and roll, or taking advantage of guys sagging off to help on Edey. On defense Purdue's guards are consistently trailing their man but it doesn't matter because guys get in the lane and then don't know what to do because Edey is there to meet them. How may times did this happen to Bouie yesterday?
I'm not sure we'll know how good any of the supporting cast as individuals until Edey leaves.
For the program as a whole that might be true. Future Purdue recruiting benefits big time from a high draft pick.
For that particular season, i strongly disagree. We were a much better team in the first half of the season when Ivey played within the flow of the offense and the entire team was more engaged.
