Question for those clamoring for more minutes for Colvin

[Wolegib]

I don’t believe it’s a given Myles will earn a starting spot next year despite his shooting ability . Painter has started freshmen. He may do so again next year.

I will. Say Gillis , Morton and Edey will not return to Purdue next year. Although Gillis and Morton may use their 5th year of eligibility somewhere else. I could see Gillis accepting a grad assistant position some where

 

[tjreese]

So I believe we should all just agree to disagree at this point. No one on this forum wants Miles to fail. We ALL see his tremendous upside and potential. There is a side of the fan base that believe he is not ready yet due to glaring defensive issues and there is a side that see the huge upside to his offense and potential. One thing we can all agree is we want him to succeed and if its this year or next year we will all, together, be cheering his success on. He's a good kid who has tremendous upside. He just needs to lock in on defense. No one in this forum not even his parents will be able to get the best out of him. he has to make the decision on his own to work his butt of, put in some extra time and I guarantee he will come out a better for it. I believe he is the only guy on the current roster who can be a 1st round pick. Hell, I think, if he puts in the work, he could be a lottery pick.. Call me crazy but he has the tools. However, at this point in time Heide is one up in terms of playing time. That's also a good thing cause he brings a new wrinkle other teams haven't seen.

I too want him to be successful and I believe he will, if...
I do think he has improved on his D and not sure how to explain his immediate double dribble with nobody in the area code when he first entered. Anyway, we all want him to reach his dreams. He is human and may have some struggles right now?

 

[Wolegib]

Nobody wants Myles to fail or leave. On the other hand nobody wants Harris or Heide or Catchings or Loyer to fail either.

We have some very talented players this year and our record is indicative of it. Guys like Myles, Furst Gillis and TKR would start on many other teams.

It nice to realize that next year it’s going to be just as competitive to earn minutes. I believe the only real given for next year is Smith. There are just so many possibilities at every position

 

[Boiler Buck]

I don’t believe it’s a given Myles will earn a starting spot next year despite his shooting ability . Painter has started freshmen. He may do so again next year.

I will. Say Gillis , Morton and Edey will not return to Purdue next year. Although Gillis and Morton may use their 5th year of eligibility somewhere else. I could see Gillis accepting a grad assistant position some where

I would be surprised if Colvin starts next year....behind on both sides of the ball.

I think 2 freshmen start next year. If not I question how good the class is as the opportunity is there.

 

[SKYDOG]

I never said I was a Morton fan. All I’m saying is there is a reason Myles isn’t getting much playing time this year. And we ALL know what that reason is.

And unfortunately I don’t really see Myles getting much more playing time next year. Myles is going to be fighting Heide, Harris and Catchings for that vacant spot created by Jones departure.

Harris is known for his defense and ball handling skills. Some call him a pg. he could team up with Smith and Loyer could play the 3.

Or maybe Heide or Catchings play the 3 and Myles competes with Loyer and Harris for the 2 spot.

Who knows?

What I’m saying is it won’t get any easier for Myles to grab a starting spot and more minutes.

Painter values defense over shooting ability. Myles should know that by now.

If Painter values defense over shooting ability, then why did he recruit Loyer?

 

[ToddFosterakadirty]

The reason Colvin can't take Morton's minutes is that he can't handle the ball right now. The offense and defense are worse when he is in the game. That could easily change by next year.

 

[Wolegib]

If Painter values defense over shooting ability, then why did he recruit Loyer?

I never said I’m a Loyer fan either. It should be clear why he continues to start Loyer verses who the fans want him to start. Painter plays the 5 players he believes gives him the best combination to win. Painter doesn’t seem as concerned about stats as fans are. Maybe there is something about Loyer that makes the other 4 players on the floor better.


I’m reminded of Dennis Rodman. All he did was rebound and make life miserable for his opponents. His stats other than rebounds were never great. But he made his team mates better. And his teams won.

Does Loyer draw the other team’s best defender to give jones and smith better looks?

I don’t really know why Loyer starts. I do know he started as a freshmen. And two guards transferred out rather than competing against him for playing time.

I also know many Purdue fans only care about offense and stats! It’s the same for football. Fans like offense and flashy passing rather than boring defense and wins like Iowa football. The same fans want Purdue basketball to score a lot of points. And shoot a lot of threes. Sometimes fans are only interested in their favorite players and their success rather than looking at the overall synergy of the team.

Michigan has a lot of individual talent. But Purdue is a better team. It was said by several posters that Marquette out played Purdue. But Purdue won the game. Why? Not because of stats or individual achievements. But rather they won because of synergy and the things that don’t show up in stats or are not obvious.

My son played high school basketball. His stats were not great, but his team played better when he played. I can’t provide the reason why. They just were.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I never said I was a Morton fan. All I’m saying is there is a reason Myles isn’t getting much playing time this year. And we ALL know what that reason is.

And unfortunately I don’t really see Myles getting much more playing time next year. Myles is going to be fighting Heide, Harris and Catchings for that vacant spot created by Jones departure.

Harris is known for his defense and ball handling skills. Some call him a pg. he could team up with Smith and Loyer could play the 3.

Or maybe Heide or Catchings play the 3 and Myles competes with Loyer and Harris for the 2 spot.

Who knows?

What I’m saying is it won’t get any easier for Myles to grab a starting spot and more minutes.

Painter values defense over shooting ability. Myles should know that by now.

And he will have a whole season under his belt and a whole offseason to understand what he needs to do to get better and play more. Purdue plays 3 guards. Smith, Heide, Loyer, Colvin, Harris, MAYBE Waddell and maybe 1 of cox and Benter compete for those 3 spots. Catchings, TKR, Berg, Furst, Burgess and Jacobsen compete for the 4 and 5…1 of Jacobsen or Burgess may redshirt.

Myles will have plenty of opportunities to play next year.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I never said I’m a Loyer fan either. It should be clear why he continues to start Loyer verses who the fans want him to start. Painter plays the 5 players he believes gives him the best combination to win. Painter doesn’t seem as concerned about stats as fans are. Maybe there is something about Loyer that makes the other 4 players on the floor better.


I’m reminded of Dennis Rodman. All he did was rebound and make life miserable for his opponents. His stats other than rebounds were never great. But he made his team mates better. And his teams won.

Does Loyer draw the other team’s best defender to give jones and smith better looks?

I don’t really know why Loyer starts. I do know he started as a freshmen. And two guards transferred out rather than competing against him for playing time.

I also know many Purdue fans only care about offense and stats! It’s the same for football. Fans like offense and flashy passing rather than boring defense and wins like Iowa football. The same fans want Purdue basketball to score a lot of points. And shoot a lot of threes. Sometimes fans are only interested in their favorite players and their success rather than looking at the overall synergy of the team.

Michigan has a lot of individual talent. But Purdue is a better team. It was said by several posters that Marquette out played Purdue. But Purdue won the game. Why? Not because of stats or individual achievements. But rather they won because of synergy and the things that don’t show up in stats or are not obvious.

My son played high school basketball. His stats were not great, but his team played better when he played. I can’t provide the reason why. They just were.

Who do you like?

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I don’t believe it’s a given Myles will earn a starting spot next year despite his shooting ability . Painter has started freshmen. He may do so again next year.

I will. Say Gillis , Morton and Edey will not return to Purdue next year. Although Gillis and Morton may use their 5th year of eligibility somewhere else. I could see Gillis accepting a grad assistant position some where

Why would Gillis accept a grad assistant position when he could play another year and then do a grad assistant year the following?

Myles isn’t guaranteed to start but he definitely has a head start on the incoming freshman.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Maybe. He's not a D1 defender

Neither were Troy Lewis or E’twaun Moore when they were 18 years old. But they improved. And had fewer talented upperclassmen to compete with for playing time.

I think he can be a similar player to them. Maybe better.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Again, your memory fails you. If you think you see something that Painter doesn't see and that he doesn't think Loyer is critical to March success, that's on you.

Again, you're purposely being foolish. Comparing Carsen and Loyer is ridiculous. Without Carsen, the offense was literally nothing. The same can't be said for Loyer.

I never said Loyer wasn't critical to March success. He certainly needs to play better and I'm not calling for Painter to bury him on the bench, but Heide brings an element that Loyer can't bring.

Also, if we're being honest, let's not act like Painter knows a whole lot about March success. Hopefully that changes this year.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Have you only been watching Purdue the past 3 years? You seem to not have been watching prior to the past few years, which is why you don't remember how some here were calling for Edwards to sit.

And please share your resume demonstrating your experience qualifying you to teach Painter about March success. Or share what you have seen in Purdue practices that support changing a lineup that has been top 5 in the nation all year.

 

[Dryfly88]

Have you only been watching Purdue the past 3 years? You seem to not have been watching prior to the past few years, which is why you don't remember how some here were calling for Edwards to sit.

And please share your resume demonstrating your experience qualifying you to teach Painter about March success. Or share what you have seen in Purdue practices that support changing a lineup that has been top 5 in the nation all year.

Can we please stop with this? You're just a fan like everyone else on here. None of us have been a D1 coach. Now that we have established that we can quit this qualifier every time someone posts something you don't agree with. It's a damn message board about PU basketball.

If we have to have been a D1 coach to have an opinion, then it's going to be a very empty board. That also means no one can critique the refs any longer. None of us have been a D1 ref so we aren't "qualified" to have an opinion.

Also, all critiques of players is off limits. Unless you played D1 basketball, you can't have an opinion about the players either.

If you disagree with someone, including me, that's great. It's what makes for a message board. But have a take yourself and articulate your position. Simply saying "you didn't coach" is lazy and weak.

 

[*4purdue*]

Did you say the same when Carsen Edwards went into his late season slump?

Carsen is not comparable to Loyer.... Carsen was the team leader, much like Edey. I would not bench Edey from this team nor Carsen from that team. Carsen's wasn't really in a slump as much as he was inconsistent. Loyer has been consistently bad. His shooting was what he brought to this team, when he's not hitting, he really doesn't bring anything. You could get more out of Colvin right now than what we are getting out of Loyer.

 

[*4purdue*]

Have you only been watching Purdue the past 3 years? You seem to not have been watching prior to the past few years, which is why you don't remember how some here were calling for Edwards to sit.

And please share your resume demonstrating your experience qualifying you to teach Painter about March success. Or share what you have seen in Purdue practices that support changing a lineup that has been top 5 in the nation all year.

To not think this team has room to improve is very narrow minded. Just because we are top 5 all year doesn't mean much. We were a top 5 team most of last year, including going into March. CMP has not shown any competency in the NCAA tournament & his biggest weakness has been his unwillingness to change.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Can we please stop with this? You're just a fan like everyone else on here. None of us have been a D1 coach. Now that we have established that we can quit this qualifier every time someone posts something you don't agree with. It's a damn message board about PU basketball.

If we have to have been a D1 coach to have an opinion, then it's going to be a very empty board. That also means no one can critique the refs any longer. None of us have been a D1 ref so we aren't "qualified" to have an opinion.

Also, all critiques of players is off limits. Unless you played D1 basketball, you can't have an opinion about the players either.

If you disagree with someone, including me, that's great. It's what makes for a message board. But have a take yourself and articulate your position. Simply saying "you didn't coach" is lazy and weak.

Well said.

 

[tjreese]

If Painter values defense over shooting ability, then why did he recruit Loyer?

Matt took a lean to offense a few years ago

 

[tjreese]

To not think this team has room to improve is very narrow minded. Just because we are top 5 all year doesn't mean much. We were a top 5 team most of last year, including going into March. CMP has not shown any competency in the NCAA tournament & his biggest weakness has been his unwillingness to change.

Matt changes a lot of things, but apparently not what you want. I'm guessing you want bigger changes that are "more" easily noticed and he may never make big changes until some major rule change?

 

[*4purdue*]

Matt changes a lot of things, but apparently not what you want. I'm guessing you want bigger changes that are "more" easily noticed and he may never make big changes until some major rule change?

CMP's strategy has always been to impose our will on the other team, even when it's apparent that it's not working. He has never been very good at making in game adjustment. Playing in the NCAA tourney is a completely different animal than playing familiar teams in the B1G. Team, especially lower seeded, are going to throw wrinkles that you have to be able to adjust to. I have not seen that out of CMP. It's not just a coincidence that were losing to 16, 15, 14 seeds as frequently as we do.

 

[BoilerAndy]

You could get more out of Colvin right now than what we are getting out of Loyer.

And this is where it gets amazing. Armchair coaches actually believing that they can manage the roster of a top 3 team better than the entire coaching staff, who sees them every day.

And I believe that Painter is focusing on preparing for the NCAA tournament as well as "right now."

 

[BoilerAndy]

To not think this team has room to improve is very narrow minded. Just because we are top 5 all year doesn't mean much. We were a top 5 team most of last year, including going into March. CMP has not shown any competency in the NCAA tournament & his biggest weakness has been his unwillingness to change.

I think it's very poor reading comprehension to find anywhere in my posts any implication that this team does not have room to improve.

I also think it is very narrow minded -- and stubborn -- to repeatedly say that Painter has not changed his approach and "has not shown any competency in the NCAA tournament."

 

[tjreese]

CMP's strategy has always been to impose our will on the other team, even when it's apparent that it's not working. He has never been very good at making in game adjustment. Playing in the NCAA tourney is a completely different animal than playing familiar teams in the B1G. Team, especially lower seeded, are going to throw wrinkles that you have to be able to adjust to. I have not seen that out of CMP. It's not just a coincidence that were losing to 16, 15, 14 seeds as frequently as we do.

Purdue has done well against unfamiliar teams as well as the Big. Actually, the last couple of years Purdue has done better against unfamiliar teams than inside the Big. Still, as you say, Purdue has not done well later in the year against teams seed between 14-16. Although they played a lot I'm not going to say that Zach, Mason, Caleb and Ethan are the reason for those three years, because we know a bit of Jaden's play in one (St. Peters), overhelping in another (N.Texas) that I broke down with video back then and last year. I don't see that happening this year although any great 3 pt shooting team will have a shot.

The early seeds or games are teams that are not typically in the tourney, but every so often one school or another gets in and usually with older players. We should be able to see how older guards are contributing to various teams throughout various conferences that came from smaller schools. Lance is just one of several, but especially good for Purdue. No, I do not believe there is a coincidence and agree that the chance to beat Goliath allows teams to play looser. Northwestern and Nebraska may be 10 and 11 seeds at this time and they both beat Purdue a while back

 

[BoilerAndy]

CMP's strategy has always been to impose our will on the other team, even when it's apparent that it's not working. He has never been very good at making in game adjustment. Playing in the NCAA tourney is a completely different animal than playing familiar teams in the B1G. Team, especially lower seeded, are going to throw wrinkles that you have to be able to adjust to. I have not seen that out of CMP. It's not just a coincidence that were losing to 16, 15, 14 seeds as frequently as we do.

The Top 25 was just posted in another thread. You may want to take a look at the teams on that list, outside the B1G, that Purdue has beaten.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

CMP's strategy has always been to impose our will on the other team, even when it's apparent that it's not working. He has never been very good at making in game adjustment. Playing in the NCAA tourney is a completely different animal than playing familiar teams in the B1G. Team, especially lower seeded, are going to throw wrinkles that you have to be able to adjust to. I have not seen that out of CMP. It's not just a coincidence that were losing to 16, 15, 14 seeds as frequently as we do.

So making adjustments…just in the Michigan game alone he played Heide 19 mins, Loyer 25 mins and Morton 3. Those mins were the lowest Morton played since he was a sophomore. Cam closed out the game, which is usually Morton or Loyer.

Let’s go a few games back where painter tinkered with his lineup and had Colvin come in 3 straight games at the 5 min mark in the first half. That hadn’t happened since Maui.

Let’s talk about the defensive adjustment on minnesotas guards where Morton clamped down on Christie and jones clamped on Mitchell in the 2nd half. Or maybe when we defended the PnR vs Buie at Mackey and almost gave a zone look after we switched on him. Or even when Gillis/TKR will hedge out on screens instead of switching like normally we do.

That’s just a few adjustments that he’s made. I’m sure there are tons more that I missed.

 

[BoilerDeac]

The Top 25 was just posted in another thread. You may want to take a look at the teams on that list, outside the B1G, that Purdue has beaten.

You're right! And a lot of those came before conference play. Let's see it happen in March! Boiler up! Come on CMP, you can do it!

We're not here to win preseason tourneys, as nice as those are. March! No more losses to double digit seeds! No more deer in headlight looks! No more playing tight! No more getting outcoached and outplayed when it matters! Let's go!!!

Time to rewrite the Purdue narrative! No more excuses! Just win, baby!

 

[BoilerAndy]

So making adjustments…just in the Michigan game alone he played Heide 19 mins, Loyer 25 mins and Morton 3. Those mins were the lowest Morton played since he was a sophomore. Cam closed out the game, which is usually Morton or Loyer.

Let’s go a few games back where painter tinkered with his lineup and had Colvin come in 3 straight games at the 5 min mark in the first half. That hadn’t happened since Maui.

Let’s talk about the defensive adjustment on minnesotas guards where Morton clamped down on Christie and jones clamped on Mitchell in the 2nd half. Or maybe when we defended the PnR vs Buie at Mackey and almost gave a zone look after we switched on him. Or even when Gillis/TKR will hedge out on screens instead of switching like normally we do.

That’s just a few adjustments that he’s made. I’m sure there are tons more that I missed.

Robbie Hummel and Rapheal Davis have both commented on how different Purdue's play is from past years. Who would know more than past players? Yet the armchair coaches stubbornly stick to their unsupported narrative. One doofus even dismissed Hummel and Davis as "talking heads".

 

[BoilerDeac]

Robbie Hummel and Rapheal Davis have both commented on how different Purdue's play is from past years. Who would know more than past players? Yet the armchair coaches stubbornly stick to their unsupported narrative. One doofus even dismissed Hummel and Davis as "talking heads".

I don't disagree, but instead of just saying "coaches know more" or "past players know more," it'd be more wise to actually state and defend your own claims.

It's a crutch to basically say "you don't know as much as the coaches or past players." This is infantile and meant to not be able to be argued with.

State and defend your own points! Think and learn to observe and think for yourself!

 

[BoilerAndy]

I don't disagree, but instead of just saying "coaches know more" or "past players know more," it'd be more wise to actually state and defend your own claims.

It's a crutch to basically say "you don't know as much as the coaches or past players." This is infantile and meant to not be able to be argued with.

State and defend your own points! Think and learn to observe and think for yourself!

I have stated my opinions. I, and several posters here, have pointed out how different Purdue is than past teams. And yes, it's supported by past players saying the same. What's infantile (IMO) is the people who close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears, and keep yelling, "He's stubborn! He never changes! " No thinking required for that.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Neither were Troy Lewis or E’twaun Moore when they were 18 years old. But they improved. And had fewer talented upperclassmen to compete with for playing time.

I think he can be a similar player to them. Maybe better.

Maybe. So far, he's shown no defensive powers.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Please...We all know you and a few others think Painter can't do no wrong. Carsen is fearless and score at the rim when his shots are not falling, the current Loyer is afraid to shoot and get abused on defense.

Having a struggling Loyer and a non-offensive threat like Morton on the court at the same time is like playing 3v5.
More Heide and Colvin if Loyer is struggling and limit Morton minutes to under 10 if we want to advance far in tournament.

Can Colvin defend as well as Morton? If you say no, then why even put him in the game?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Maybe. So far, he's shown no defensive powers.

Remember- He just turned 18 over the summer, so he’s 4-6 years younger than a lot of these guys he’s trying to guard.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Remember- He just turned 18 over the summer, so he’s 4-6 years younger than a lot of these guys he’s trying to guard.

Very good point and it was early August which is late summer too (just saying he’s younger than what a lot of kids are entering college these days)

 

[Wolegib]

Maybe. So far, he's shown no defensive powers.

It was said that both Moore and Lewis improved. Didn’t they both play a lot as Freshmen? Myles has played very little as a freshman. And next year we have 3 more guards that people are speaking very highly of!

It’s one thing to talk about players who improve from their freshmen to their sophomore years. Can you name a player who played very little as a freshman who suddenly became a starter as a sophomore?

If you like Myles, does that mean you think he is going to beat out Loyer, Heide, Cox, Harris and Catchings for playing time next year?

Has he shown anything that would imply he’s going to miraculously improve over the Summer?

 

[Wolegib]

Remember- He just turned 18 over the summer, so he’s 4-6 years younger than a lot of these guys he’s trying to guard.

There are 19 year olds playing and excelling in the NBA against 25-30 year olds. If he turned 18 last Summer, he is very close to being 19. So age should not be used as an excuse for not being able to play defense.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

There are 19 year olds playing and excelling in the NBA against 25-30 year olds

Which 19 year olds are playing great defense in the NBA?

If he turned 18 last Summer, he is very close to being 19.

Wrong.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

There are 19 year olds playing and excelling in the NBA against 25-30 year olds. If he turned 18 last Summer, he is very close to being 19. So age should not be used as an excuse for not being able to play defense.

He turned 18 in August and will turn 19 in 6 months. Players gets stronger and quicker and faster as their body matures as they…wait for it….get older. Allowing for them to compete physically at a higher level.

 

[Wolegib]

Which 19 year olds are playing great defense in the NBA?


Wrong.

I didn’t say any were playing great defense. I said 19 year olds were playing in the NBa and that she should not be used as an excuse. How about the center who plays for San Antonio? He seems to be doing pretty good and is a starter!

And we have 19 year olds playing 82 game schedules! So I also don’t believe college players should use playing 30 games as an excuse for getting tired. Many 18-19 year olds are awesome at a young age! Many are not!

As for defense, do any nba players play defense?

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I didn’t say any were playing great defense. I said 19 year olds were playing in the NBa and that she should not be used as an excuse. How about the center who plays for San Antonio? He seems to be doing pretty good and is a starter!

And we have 19 year olds playing 82 game schedules! So I also don’t believe college players should use playing 30 games as an excuse for getting tired. Many 18-19 year olds are awesome at a young age! Many are not!

As for defense, do any nba players play defense?

Wole, Wemby has been a pro since he was 15 lol not a good comparison

 

[Wolegib]

I refuse to use age as the prime factor for the ability to play defense. Next year, you will have Myles verse Harris? Who will be older? Who will play better defense? Who will play more minutes? My money is on Harris!

I know there are fans here who love Myles. I don’t believe his age has anything to do with his defense. I also don’t believe it will improve very much. We are close to finishing his first year and he played 0 minutes against Michigan. To me that suggests Painter still considers him as a liability. At this time last year, Smith and Loyer were playing 30+ minutes.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out why Myles is not playing. And many of you who love Myles love Catchings and Cox and Heide and Harris even more. If you have confidence in their abilities, where does that leave Myles and his future next year? It’s obvious someone will start and somebody will not. Just ask Hunter, IT and Newman. There was a reason they didn’t start. The reason was a younger player beat them out. So by your reasoning, they should have been better because they were older. By my reasoning, their ages were not a factor. Painter chose the player whom he thought would give his team the best chance at winning.

So what is Myles future at Purdue? It could be good. But he has to improve a lot in order for that to happen. It doesn’t matter what his age is.

So there are 25 year olds playing college basketball! Big deal! That’s not a factor in a player’s ability to play defense or to be stronger! Or learn the playbook!

Loyer started last year. He’s not big or strong or 25 years old! He did fine his freshman year.