A defensive specialist as a guard that is literally ZERO threat to score? Please, enlighten me if you can come up with an example of one.
Question for those clamoring for more minutes for Colvin
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Stellar defense by who? Certainly not Loyer. Morton? I'd hardly call Morton's defense "stellar." Sure, his defense is good most of the time. He also gets beat plenty.
Yes, Colvin stinks on defense. Not saying Colvin should play a boatload of minutes, but I still think the likes of Heide and Colvin -- athletic players who are both really good shooters -- can elevate the ceiling for this Purdue team, which, in turn, can prevent them from being the laughing stock of the NCAA by losing again to a double-digit seed.
Colvin has nothing in his game right now that will propel any team. And CMP disagrees with you regarding Morton's defense.
"Nothing" in his game right now? I disagree. He's a really good shooter he's capable of doing things that other players simply can't do, like a tip-in dunk after a missed shot, like he did last night. Not saying he should play heavy minutes, but to have effectively him buried on the bench all season, imo, may hurt Purdue in the tournament.
CMP is a really good coach and a different individual than I am, so it's not surprising he disagrees. Him and I are both fallible human beings.
CMP also seems to continuously fall short to lesser teams in March, so hopefully he's self aware enough to introspect and question some of his own convictions.
Would be a real bummer to bow our early again in March.
This board should know that Painter values defense over guys who take a 3 point shot the second after they get into the game . When Myles learns to play defense he may earn more playing time.
Painter recruited Harris very hard. He even went over his scholarship limit to sign Harris. Why? Because Harris can play defense!
The message Painter is sending should be very clear. It seems as if Heide is starting to understand that message.
Will Myles ever learn defense is his ticket to more playing time? Will Myles ever learn the motion offense or will he continue to just shoot 3s?
What are the Myles fans going to say when Harris and Catchings arrive next year?
Painter recruited Harris very hard. He even went over his scholarship limit to sign Harris. Why? Because Harris can play defense!
The message Painter is sending should be very clear. It seems as if Heide is starting to understand that message.
Will Myles ever learn defense is his ticket to more playing time? Will Myles ever learn the motion offense or will he continue to just shoot 3s?
What are the Myles fans going to say when Harris and Catchings arrive next year?
So I believe we should all just agree to disagree at this point. No one on this forum wants Miles to fail. We ALL see his tremendous upside and potential. There is a side of the fan base that believe he is not ready yet due to glaring defensive issues and there is a side that see the huge upside to his offense and potential. One thing we can all agree is we want him to succeed and if its this year or next year we will all, together, be cheering his success on. He's a good kid who has tremendous upside. He just needs to lock in on defense. No one in this forum not even his parents will be able to get the best out of him. he has to make the decision on his own to work his butt of, put in some extra time and I guarantee he will come out a better for it. I believe he is the only guy on the current roster who can be a 1st round pick. Hell, I think, if he puts in the work, he could be a lottery pick.. Call me crazy but he has the tools. However, at this point in time Heide is one up in terms of playing time. That's also a good thing cause he brings a new wrinkle other teams haven't seen.
One note - the best coaches in America leverage tools like BPR. Even those that don't completely understand it have people on staff whose role is to utilize advanced metrics to support coaching decisions.
Here is the player breakdown. As you can see, Ethan is the 3rd rated defensive player on the roster. Colvin is the only player on the roster that has a negative DBPR. Among the regulars, Morton clearly has a lower OBPR but is actually slightly ahead of Furst and Evan Miya also doesn't like Colvin on the offensive side.
Below is a link to a better explanation on BPR.
Preseason Player Projections With Bayesian Performance Rating
Top 30 reveal, plus methodology breakdown and interesting trends
blog.evanmiya.com
he did not take a 3 pointer as soon as he got in last night
Very helpful, thank you!One note - the best coaches in America leverage tools like BPR. Even those that don't completely understand it have people on staff whose role is to utilize advanced metrics to support coaching decisions.
Here is the player breakdown. As you can see, Ethan is the 3rd rated defensive player on the roster. Colvin is the only player on the roster that has a negative DBPR. Among the regulars, Morton clearly has a lower OBPR but is actually slightly ahead of Furst and Evan Miya also doesn't like Colvin on the offensive side.
Below is a link to a better explanation on BPR.
Preseason Player Projections With Bayesian Performance Rating
Top 30 reveal, plus methodology breakdown and interesting trends
Thankfully, human beings are not fixed statistics. No doubt, Colvin appears to be very bad right now, but I believe he has the capacity to improve quite a bit. Unfortunately, at this point, he likely won't improve in time for the NCAAs, but we will see.
Look, I get it. Painter sees these kids in practice and is the head coach of the team. I get it. But I also know that as great as practice is, there's no duplicate for figuring things out in a game. The only way to really improve in a game is by playing more in-game minutes.
I mean, look at Painter last night -- he even said re: Heide, "coach needs to play him more!" Sometimes, Painter needs to get out of his own way.
Painter can be his own worst enemy. Paralysis by analysis with all the stats and such. Sometimes, you have to trust your eyes as well, and it's clear that the ceilings of Morton and Loyer are nowhere near as high as the likes of Heide and Colvin.
That kind of thinking by CMP is why we don't advance in March. Just because a kid was good in Nov, doesn't mean he hasn't hit a wall in Jan. Play the hot hand. Loyer is not worthy of major minutes right now because he played well in Nov. SMH...
I use to think that, but Loyer is not any better than Myles defensively & you will never convince me otherwise.
You really didn’t just compare loyer to Edwards did you?
Agree with a lot of what you say. On your last paragraph though, I will caution that potential isn't production until it's demonstrated. I'm firmly convinced that Colvin will be a great player and I hope it's at Purdue (and think it will be). But his ceiling is largely irrelevant to the goals this year if the odds are so low that he reaches it.
And given that it's late February and thus far the only thing he's demonstrated is the ability to hit an open jumper or make an occasional highlight reel play, I doubt he gets anywhere near that ceiling this year.
IMO, on a team with two Naismith candidates, it's far more important that our supporting players can be relied on to do the things that don't show up in the box score than the occasional highlight reel play coupled with below average D, rebounding, offensive execution, etc.
And with the improvement by Smith, the breath of fresh air that is Jones and the consistent two headed monster at the four, the reality is our wing has become much more of a supporting player this year than we anticipated them being.
Morton is the real issue. You can’t have a guard that nobody pays attention to on offense.
Loyer, Cam, and Colvin are far better options.
Bringing in Morton is like raising the white flag to the other team that we will sacrifice our offense because we can’t stop you. It’s a horrible move which has been proven over the last couple weeks.
No more Morton
Harris gives him another ball handler as well. I like Jones alot but what he brought to the team that we really needed was ball handling.
Comparing Loyer and Carsen is asinine and you know it.
Carsen was on a completely different level as a player.
He hit a wall. Purdue was losing games. People were calling for him to come off the bench. You weren't one of them? But Painter had faith in him. Up to this point, it's the same scenario.
You think all D1 players are D1 defenders when they first get to D1? You can work on defense and get better at it…that’s what great about it.
He’s definitely quick enough, he just has to put it together and take pride in defending someone. I have faith that our coaches can get him there, especially in the offseason.
Carsen was a Consensus All-American. The entire offense revolved around him. Nobody was calling for Carsen to come off the bench, nor was there a better, more athletic, more dynamic player like Heide waiting in the wings.
Not the same scenario.
CMP does disagree but to your point of Colvin gives up 5 after getting 5…one could say Morton gives up 15 and gets you 0 on the offensive side. Im not saying bench Morton by any means. I think 8-10 mins is perfect for him. But if I’m a team that has a low chance of beating Purdue in the tourney and Morton comes in, I am telling my guys to back off of him by 8 ft, pack the lane and dare him to shoot. Loyer, Heide and Colvin don’t allow a team to do that.
Colvins defense is not great as you have mentioned but it has drastically improved from where it was at the beginning of the year (low bar I know). I think his offensive firepower outweighs his defensive liabilities. if we play him in 2-4 min spurts and run plays on offense to get him scoring opportunities, then we can use his skill to our advantage. If we don’t try to get him the ball on offense, there’s no reason to have him in.
Myles dunked before the 3A…he over signed probably because he was not anticipating Jacobsen to re class and also Harris is a really good player who happens to be a legacy at Purdue.
Myles will learn defense and the offense. He’s super young still and will only get better.
Perhaps he is learning! So how was his defense? Did he score more points than he allowed?
If that’s how we measure defense Morton should have stopped seeing any playing time last year
He’s made obvious strides on both sides of the ball since he’d gotten time after his DNP games. D is definitely better both individual and team. Also seems to be working within the team O scheme better. I think it’s very noticeable if you’ve been watching and comparing to earlier in the season
I like Colvin and he seems to have that internal drive and obvious swagger to prove/succeed. His family is full of success stories from hard work. I won't be surprised if his defense will be much better next season. He also needs to improve his passing and wrangler ways. Probably not a good comparison, but he reminds me of Ivey. When they are in that zone of not being stopped, they are elite and hit that next gear. Nothing can stop them. But it can quickly go the other way and then they press and fall some. Shannon did that to some extent with Illinois' crazy loss the other night. I think the level of talent in D-1 ball catches some freshmen by surprise. They got away with things before college, being a superior athlete, and now it shows. One nice thing is that the Purdue coaches seem to do a decent job of building on player weaknesses and needs.
Go Boilers!
Go Boilers!
he also has nice form on his jump shot, that 3 he made was straight up vertical w/ a nice touch. He doesn't have to fake when a guy comes at him or automatically throw it to another teammate
Your memory fails you. He was AA at the end of the season. Not during his slump.
Dude. Stop it. He was a stud the entire season. Sure, he had his 'slumps,' but nothing close to what Loyer has been going through.
I believe this guy uses on/off based statistics, correct?One note - the best coaches in America leverage tools like BPR. Even those that don't completely understand it have people on staff whose role is to utilize advanced metrics to support coaching decisions.
Here is the player breakdown. As you can see, Ethan is the 3rd rated defensive player on the roster. Colvin is the only player on the roster that has a negative DBPR. Among the regulars, Morton clearly has a lower OBPR but is actually slightly ahead of Furst and Evan Miya also doesn't like Colvin on the offensive side.
Below is a link to a better explanation on BPR.
Preseason Player Projections With Bayesian Performance Rating
Top 30 reveal, plus methodology breakdown and interesting trends
Please...We all know you and a few others think Painter can't do no wrong. Carsen is fearless and score at the rim when his shots are not falling, the current Loyer is afraid to shoot and get abused on defense.
Having a struggling Loyer and a non-offensive threat like Morton on the court at the same time is like playing 3v5.
More Heide and Colvin if Loyer is struggling and limit Morton minutes to under 10 if we want to advance far in tournament.
And "defensive specialist" is a stretch
Again, your memory fails you. If you think you see something that Painter doesn't see and that he doesn't think Loyer is critical to March success, that's on you.
I have never suggested Painter "can't do no wrong." I'm just not so delusionally egotistical to believe that I know more about how to handle this team and these players than he and his staff.
You have even determined how many minutes each player must get, including Colvin, for Purdue "to advance far in the tournament"?! That is incredible.
I never said I was a Morton fan. All I’m saying is there is a reason Myles isn’t getting much playing time this year. And we ALL know what that reason is.
And unfortunately I don’t really see Myles getting much more playing time next year. Myles is going to be fighting Heide, Harris and Catchings for that vacant spot created by Jones departure.
Harris is known for his defense and ball handling skills. Some call him a pg. he could team up with Smith and Loyer could play the 3.
Or maybe Heide or Catchings play the 3 and Myles competes with Loyer and Harris for the 2 spot.
Who knows?
What I’m saying is it won’t get any easier for Myles to grab a starting spot and more minutes.
Painter values defense over shooting ability. Myles should know that by now.
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