ADVERTISEMENT

Off Topic - Purdue ranked #6 in Free Speech according to Real Clear Education Poll

Thank you, Mitch Daniels.

When he arrived, there were many far-left professors brought in by Cordova that were shutting down free speech. Some radicals are still there and try to control thought in the classroom. But when they try to control speech campus-wide, Mitch instructs them that conservatives have the same right to express their views as libereral professors do.
 
Thank you, Mitch Daniels.

When he arrived, there were many far-left professors brought in by Cordova that were shutting down free speech. Some radicals are still there and try to control thought in the classroom. But when they try to control speech campus-wide, Mitch instructs them that conservatives have the same right to express their views as libereral professors do.

You are completely full of shit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: z_one and DG Boiler
You are completely full of shit.
Wow! Step back from the ledge.

What Andy is saying is at least partially true. It is a strong characteristic of certain universities to ban outside speakers that espouse ideas that are not the accepted politically correct position. It has happened over and over at the west coast dumpster fire of colleges. I am glad that Purdue is recognized for being open to all kinds of political positions.

I don't support or agree with much of the far right's positions, but that is my choice after hearing what each side is saying. That is the important part of this process. Hearing all sides to the issue. Our students must be given that same opportunity in the free society. Glad Purdue supports this view.

As for Cordova, I am not a fan. I think she did harm to this university for personal gain. Good riddance.
 
I agree everyone has a right to speak their mind. But when what either side is speaking is not true, do they have a right to continue to express untruths? I would assume (yeah I know ass of you and me both) anyone who has attended and completed university or college work is able to figure out what is and is not true, as they see it. I would like to think they have had a well rounded view of things as that is IMO what advances studies should be about. I could be wrong, as it would not be the first time. But there are many more who have not completed that work and are led to believe what they are fed. Again both sides not just one, but this is the problem as I see it now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: z_one
I agree everyone has a right to speak their mind. But when what either side is speaking is not true, do they have a right to continue to express untruths? I would assume (yeah I know ass of you and me both) anyone who has attended and completed university or college work is able to figure out what is and is not true, as they see it. I would like to think they have had a well rounded view of things as that is IMO what advances studies should be about. I could be wrong, as it would not be the first time. But there are many more who have not completed that work and are led to believe what they are fed. Again both sides not just one, but this is the problem as I see it now.
If we have learned anything from the past 5 years, it's that was the media portrays as "true" isn't always true, and what the media claims are lies are sometimes truths.

For example...Trump/Russia collusion. We now know there was ZERO collusion, but the media and the left still talk about it as if it was proven.

We know that Hunter Biden laptop story was 100% legit, but the media claim it was untrue. This is very dangerous territory we're in.

As far as your question, "do they have a right to continue to express untruths", yes they have the right to say whatever they want. For as long as they want.
 
Wow! Step back from the ledge.

What Andy is saying is at least partially true. It is a strong characteristic of certain universities to ban outside speakers that espouse ideas that are not the accepted politically correct position. It has happened over and over at the west coast dumpster fire of colleges. I am glad that Purdue is recognized for being open to all kinds of political positions.

I don't support or agree with much of the far right's positions, but that is my choice after hearing what each side is saying. That is the important part of this process. Hearing all sides to the issue. Our students must be given that same opportunity in the free society. Glad Purdue supports this view.

As for Cordova, I am not a fan. I think she did harm to this university for personal gain. Good riddance.
You might remember in the first few months of Daniels' tenure when some freshmen engineering students made a music video about Purdue engineering that went viral. It was cute and hilarious. Some left-wing faculty members immediately labelled the video and the freshmen who made it as racists and anti-women because it did not show diversity. They claimed that Daniels making a cameo appearance proved their charge that he was racist. They wrote letters to the Exponent and the Lafayette J&C with these claims. Interesting that the video had women and Asians, which was completely ignored in the radical left's description. If these insane faculty members were making these statements publicly, imagine what they were doing in the classroom.

Does anyone remember the radical professor who sent an email threatening to rape the grandmothers of pro-life students? He defended his actions, feeling completely justified. Can you imagine the tone he set in his classroom?

A close friend's daughters were in the Purdue School of Nursing. One of their instructors was a militant feminist who was telling her students in the classroom that all men were racist, and she made if very clear that you did not challenge her views.

Beealzebub's response is what you would expect from a radical leftist. Because she could not challenging my claims with a logical response, she lashed out with an emotional personal attack. proving my point.
 
I agree everyone has a right to speak their mind. But when what either side is speaking is not true, do they have a right to continue to express untruths? I would assume (yeah I know ass of you and me both) anyone who has attended and completed university or college work is able to figure out what is and is not true, as they see it. I would like to think they have had a well rounded view of things as that is IMO what advances studies should be about. I could be wrong, as it would not be the first time. But there are many more who have not completed that work and are led to believe what they are fed. Again both sides not just one, but this is the problem as I see it now.
So who is the arbiter of "truth"? And are those arbiters justified to violently stop you from stating what you believe to be true if they think it's a lie?

That is the definition of fascism, and it is practiced by ANTIFA.
 
You might remember in the first few months of Daniels' tenure when some freshmen engineering students made a music video about Purdue engineering that went viral. It was cute and hilarious. Some left-wing faculty members immediately labelled the video and the freshmen who made it as racists and anti-women because it did not show diversity. They claimed that Daniels making a cameo appearance proved their charge that he was racist. They wrote letters to the Exponent and the Lafayette J&C with these claims. Interesting that the video had women and Asians, which was completely ignored in the radical left's description. If these insane faculty members were making these statements publicly, imagine what they were doing in the classroom.

Does anyone remember the radical professor who sent an email threatening to rape the grandmothers of pro-life students? He defended his actions, feeling completely justified. Can you imagine the tone he set in his classroom?

A close friend's daughters were in the Purdue School of Nursing. One of their instructors was a militant feminist who was telling her students in the classroom that all men were racist, and she made if very clear that you did not challenge her views.

Beealzebub's response is what you would expect from a radical leftist. Because she could not challenging my claims with a logical response, she lashed out with an emotional personal attack. proving my point.
And the other well-documented example is the few radical faculty members who tried to block the Chick-fil-A from campus because they disagreed with the founder's religious beliefs. Even though thousands of students and faculty members approved of -- and petitioned for -- the restaurant, the leftists whined that their voices weren't being heard. Daniels and the administration responded to them every time they whined. So they were heard, they were simply informed that the vast majority would not be silenced by a fringe group.
 
If we have learned anything from the past 5 years, it's that was the media portrays as "true" isn't always true, and what the media claims are lies are sometimes truths.

For example...Trump/Russia collusion. We now know there was ZERO collusion, but the media and the left still talk about it as if it was proven.

We know that Hunter Biden laptop story was 100% legit, but the media claim it was untrue. This is very dangerous territory we're in.

As far as your question, "do they have a right to continue to express untruths", yes they have the right to say whatever they want. For as long as they want.
Abu, I know what you are saying, but any logical person knew that media has be lying WAY before the last 5 years. (I know you know this) It's important to teach children that news exists to sell itself (fear mongering, etc). It doesn't matter if it is right, left, middle. Consider the motive of the source and think for yourself on what is true, cross referencing with as much reliable neutral sources you can. Whenever my kids bring me a piece of news and ask me what I think, I first ask them why they think the author of the piece wrote it the way they did.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Abugabby
I agree everyone has a right to speak their mind. But when what either side is speaking is not true, do they have a right to continue to express untruths? I would assume (yeah I know ass of you and me both) anyone who has attended and completed university or college work is able to figure out what is and is not true, as they see it. I would like to think they have had a well rounded view of things as that is IMO what advances studies should be about. I could be wrong, as it would not be the first time. But there are many more who have not completed that work and are led to believe what they are fed. Again both sides not just one, but this is the problem as I see it now.

There's an old adage, that when you write/say, "I agree ... But...", anything before the "But" can be discounted as b.s.

Okay... that might be a big too edgy, but the point remains.

There's not a "but". Everyone has the right to speak his or her mind. Even if you consider it an ... "untruth". (Or, in today's idiotic parlance, "misinformation".)

Who will be the arbiter of truths and untruths?

You?

Jack(@ss) Dorsey?

Any of the other tech @sshats?

The "old guard" media?

No, thanks.

Say what you have to say, and let me figure it out on my own.
 
Abu, I know what you are saying, but any logical person knew that media has be lying WAY before the last 5 years. (I know you know this) It's important to teach children that news exists to sell itself (fear mongering, etc). It doesn't matter if it is right, left, middle. Consider the motive of the source and think for yourself on what is true, cross referencing with as much reliable neutral sources you can. Whenever my kids bring me a piece of news and ask me what I think, I first ask them why they think the author of the piece wrote it the way they did.
100%

Every article you read about one of the dems always leads with "false accusations of" or includes a couple of lines at the end about "no substantiated evidence" or both . Not once in my life have I ever read an article from the networks or cable news that mentioned "false accusations of" when the news was about Russia collusion, Trump or anyone in his orbit, even if the accusation has been 100% debunked.
 
Replying to my own post...we don't acknowledge how effective it is. To this day when I hear the name Bob Dole or George Herbert Walker Bush or any of those old republicans, I immediately have to check my negative inclinations toward them. I (like a lot of you) was a pretty hard core democrat when I was young and the news had me convinced that Republicans were inherently bad.

It's hard to overcome those biases when I hear mentions of the old school Republicans.
 
“Who will be the arbiter of truths and untruths?”

Um, facts.

The world is not some mysterious place where anything can be true for anyone. Things are true based on facts or they are false based on facts.

Having said that, I have no issue with free speech. There are limits however and speech that can lead to harm for citizens shouldn’t be allowed to propagate without consequences.

If I say something that harms your business and I it as fact and you actually suffer damage. Should I be able to continue to affect your life with falsehoods? I mean, it’s just speech and I should be able to say what I please, right?
 
“Who will be the arbiter of truths and untruths?”

Um, facts.

The world is not some mysterious place where anything can be true for anyone. Things are true based on facts or they are false based on facts.

Having said that, I have no issue with free speech. There are limits however and speech that can lead to harm for citizens shouldn’t be allowed to propagate without consequences.

If I say something that harms your business and I it as fact and you actually suffer damage. Should I be able to continue to affect your life with falsehoods? I mean, it’s just speech and I should be able to say what I please, right?
That's why we have libel and slander laws. If I want to stand in the street and yell "Covid can't hurt me" at the top of my lungs, that's my right. I'm not hurting anyone.
 
“Who will be the arbiter of truths and untruths?”

Um, facts.

The world is not some mysterious place where anything can be true for anyone. Things are true based on facts or they are false based on facts.

Having said that, I have no issue with free speech. There are limits however and speech that can lead to harm for citizens shouldn’t be allowed to propagate without consequences.

If I say something that harms your business and I it as fact and you actually suffer damage. Should I be able to continue to affect your life with falsehoods? I mean, it’s just speech and I should be able to say what I please, right?
Right, except what we view as "facts" regularly changes. For example, it was viewed as fact earlier this year that the lab leak origin story had no merit and was only propagated due race-based fear mongering. Now it is widely seen, regardless of political affiliation, as the most likely source of COVID.

Let's flip the political orientation for another example: it was once fact, not only by the US government but also most western nations and the UN, that Saddam Hussein had access to weapons of mass destruction, likely chemical in nature, and was planning to use them to exterminate the Kurds. We know now this was a lie used to justify military intervention.

A third one: a few weeks ago it was a fact that a US drone strike killed two Taliban targets who we knew were attempting a suicide bombing in the Kabul airport. It was also a confirmed fact that the secondary explosion from that drone strike was definitely, no questions asked, caused by the explosives the terrorists had. Then we find out it was a bunch of kids and there were no terrorists. They lied about the whole thing.

There are some fields, especially politics, where facts are difficult to come by. Instead you have "truth," which is often a distortion of facts to fit narratives.

As far as your comments about limiting speech, that's incredibly naive. We should only limit speech in regards to targeted calls for violence. Anything else, including so-called hate speech, is incredibly arbitrary. Who determines what that is? You certainly don't want Congress or the president to. How do I know that? Because you probably hate who has that majority if they aren't on your team.

Also, go look at Yelp reviews if you want to see examples of people lying about businesses. I guarantee you a good chunk of those are Karens that making crap up because some high school kid forgot to not put pickles on their mcdouble. People lie and exaggerate. It happens. Businesses deal with it. Karen should be allowed to make a fool of herself, not baby-sat by laws that restrict everyone else's rights.
 
“Who will be the arbiter of truths and untruths?”

Um, facts.

The world is not some mysterious place where anything can be true for anyone. Things are true based on facts or they are false based on facts.


Having said that, I have no issue with free speech. There are limits however and speech that can lead to harm for citizens shouldn’t be allowed to propagate without consequences.

If I say something that harms your business and I it as fact and you actually suffer damage. Should I be able to continue to affect your life with falsehoods? I mean, it’s just speech and I should be able to say what I please, right?
I agree with this. But when a crazy leftist realizes that they are in the wrong, based on facts, they will respond with, "You have your truth and I have mine." I have seen this argument used on this board. That is mysterious to me. You can't reason with people who do not have the ability to reason.
 
“ I'm not hurting anyone.”

Like I said, as long as it doesn’t hurt others.

People often confuse free speech with the right to say anything. Reality is the first amendment only provides protection against “the government” from limiting the freedom of speech. Even then, there are limits such as you cannot say things that harm others without consequences. You can’t yell fire in a crowded movie theatre for example.

In the private sector, free speech isn’t really a thing. In reality we are limited on what we can say and to whom. Private companies don’t allow the sharing of trade secrets. You can’t say offensive things to coworkers etc.

My point is, you can’t just say anything to anybody as was portrayed above. In the real world everyone has limits on what they can and cannot say and the constitution has zero to do with those instances. The instances where the constitution does play a part also has limits based on how the speech affects others.

We all share this freedom and we all carry a responsibility along with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mathboy
“ I'm not hurting anyone.”

Like I said, as long as it doesn’t hurt others.

People often confuse free speech with the right to say anything. Reality is the first amendment only provides protection against “the government” from limiting the freedom of speech. Even then, there are limits such as you cannot say things that harm others without consequences. You can’t yell fire in a crowded movie theatre for example.

In the private sector, free speech isn’t really a thing. In reality we are limited on what we can say and to whom. Private companies don’t allow the sharing of trade secrets. You can’t say offensive things to coworkers etc.

My point is, you can’t just say anything to anybody as was portrayed above. In the real world everyone has limits on what they can and cannot say and the constitution has zero to do with those instances. The instances where the constitution does play a part also has limits based on how the speech affects others.

We all share this freedom and we all carry a responsibility along with it.
none of that was argued.

This line of discussion came from the bizarre and absurd notion of restricting "untruths".

EDIT:

Using the old argument, "you cannot yell fire in a crowded movie theater" is not correct, and has nothing to do with the constitution.
 
Last edited:
I agree everyone has a right to speak their mind. But when what either side is speaking is not true, do they have a right to continue to express untruths? I would assume (yeah I know ass of you and me both) anyone who has attended and completed university or college work is able to figure out what is and is not true, as they see it. I would like to think they have had a well rounded view of things as that is IMO what advances studies should be about. I could be wrong, as it would not be the first time. But there are many more who have not completed that work and are led to believe what they are fed. Again both sides not just one, but this is the problem as I see it now.
What an ivory tower elitist view of the world. Those who have completed university work should be able to figure out what is true and not true. "But there are many more who have not completed that work and are led to believe what they are fed." I'm guessing you're young. Hopefully being exposed to the great unwashed as you go through life will show you that those poor uneducated fools understand a lot more about life's truths than a whole university of "thinkers". Expose yourself to a variety of people. It's healthy for us all.
 
“ I'm not hurting anyone.”

Like I said, as long as it doesn’t hurt others.

People often confuse free speech with the right to say anything. Reality is the first amendment only provides protection against “the government” from limiting the freedom of speech. Even then, there are limits such as you cannot say things that harm others without consequences. You can’t yell fire in a crowded movie theatre for example.

In the private sector, free speech isn’t really a thing. In reality we are limited on what we can say and to whom. Private companies don’t allow the sharing of trade secrets. You can’t say offensive things to coworkers etc.

My point is, you can’t just say anything to anybody as was portrayed above. In the real world everyone has limits on what they can and cannot say and the constitution has zero to do with those instances. The instances where the constitution does play a part also has limits based on how the speech affects others.

We all share this freedom and we all carry a responsibility along with it.
Ah, but now you have to define "hurting". If someone says they are offended by someone's words, does that mean they are "hurt" by the words? And therefore people should not be allowed to say those words. Many on the left think so.

And then you need to explain what are the acceptable remedies to stop that person from being hurt. Is violence an acceptable means of stopping someone from speaking? Many on the left think so.
 
none of that was argued.

This line of discussion came from the bizarre and absurd notion of restricting "untruths".

EDIT:

Using the old argument, "you cannot yell fire in a crowded movie theater" is not correct, and has nothing to do with the constitution.

Shouting fire in a crowded theater" is a popular analogy for speech or actions made for the principal purpose of creating panic.

The phrase is a paraphrasing of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.'s opinion in the United States Supreme Court case Schenck v. United States in 1919, which held that the defendant's speech in opposition to the draft during World War I was not protected free speech under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

“The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.... The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.“

Further more, use this forum as an example of limited speech. You cannot post certain opinions on this forum. One example would be to dox another poster. Many posters have been banned for certain speech so we can use this forum as an example of real world limits to free speech.

There are no laws that prohibit private companies or individuals from limiting the free speech of others. Having said that, Purdue being a public university, is unable to limit the free speech of its students or employees. There are limits here as well but for the most part, one would have to violate certain rules or laws to have their voice be silenced. This is why you have professors who trigger certain groups of people when they express their rights to free speech. This is what’s odd to me. Why get upset when others use their right to say what they want when you are saying there should be a free for all when it comes to speech?
 
Shouting fire in a crowded theater" is a popular analogy for speech or actions made for the principal purpose of creating panic.

The phrase is a paraphrasing of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.'s opinion in the United States Supreme Court case Schenck v. United States in 1919, which held that the defendant's speech in opposition to the draft during World War I was not protected free speech under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

“The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.... The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.“

Further more, use this forum as an example of limited speech. You cannot post certain opinions on this forum. One example would be to dox another poster. Many posters have been banned for certain speech so we can use this forum as an example of real world limits to free speech.

There are no laws that prohibit private companies or individuals from limiting the free speech of others. Having said that, Purdue being a public university, is unable to limit the free speech of its students or employees. There are limits here as well but for the most part, one would have to violate certain rules or laws to have their voice be silenced. This is why you have professors who trigger certain groups of people when they express their rights to free speech. This is what’s odd to me. Why get upset when others use their right to say what they want when you are saying there should be a free for all when it comes to speech?
It has no legal bearing. None.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IUhaterade
It has no legal bearing. None.
Once again, it’s a paraphrase. The legality aspect is that your freedom of speech ends where it can be harmful to others. It isn’t a free for all and let each individual figure it out as you were inferring above. So my point and it still stands is that although you say that “but” eliminates everything that comes before is false. There is a “but” and then Supreme Court has laid out what those “buts” are very clearly. My second point is that the First Amendment only prevents the government from limiting free speech except that which is outlined by the Supreme Court and that in the real world, there is no free for all as speech is limited in almost every aspect of ones daily life.
 
Once again, it’s a paraphrase. The legality aspect is that your freedom of speech ends where it can be harmful to others. It isn’t a free for all and let each individual figure it out as you were inferring above. So my point and it still stands is that although you say that “but” eliminates everything that comes before is false. There is a “but” and then Supreme Court has laid out what those “buts” are very clearly. My second point is that the First Amendment only prevents the government from limiting free speech except that which is outlined by the Supreme Court and that in the real world, there is no free for all as speech is limited in almost every aspect of ones daily life.
Once again, the "yelling fire" trope has no bearing whatsoever to the point.

It's been misused in the same circumstances you're trying to employ it. It just doesn't work.
 
Shouting fire in a crowded theater" is a popular analogy for speech or actions made for the principal purpose of creating panic.

The phrase is a paraphrasing of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.'s opinion in the United States Supreme Court case Schenck v. United States in 1919, which held that the defendant's speech in opposition to the draft during World War I was not protected free speech under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

“The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.... The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.“

Further more, use this forum as an example of limited speech. You cannot post certain opinions on this forum. One example would be to dox another poster. Many posters have been banned for certain speech so we can use this forum as an example of real world limits to free speech.

There are no laws that prohibit private companies or individuals from limiting the free speech of others. Having said that, Purdue being a public university, is unable to limit the free speech of its students or employees. There are limits here as well but for the most part, one would have to violate certain rules or laws to have their voice be silenced. This is why you have professors who trigger certain groups of people when they express their rights to free speech. This is what’s odd to me. Why get upset when others use their right to say what they want when you are saying there should be a free for all when it comes to speech?
You use the terms "hurt" and "harm". What do those terms mean, in your mind?

If a far-right business leader is invited to speak on the virtues of capitalism, should he/she be permitted? And if they speak about the risks of Obama-care?
 
You use the terms "hurt" and "harm". What do those terms mean, in your mind?

If a far-right business leader is invited to speak on the virtues of capitalism, should he/she be permitted? And if they speak about the risks of Obama-care?
Or more appropriate for the current context, why should doctors who use science to challenge mask and vaccine mandates, or alternative treatments for Covid be silenced? The left thinks they should, even though their arguments are science-based and are not opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BoilerAndy
Or more appropriate for the current context, why should doctors who use science to challenge mask and vaccine mandates, or alternative treatments for Covid be silenced? The left thinks they should, even though their arguments are science-based and are not opinion.
Because the left thinks the scientific evaluation by a doctor or scientist that differs from the left-wing world view is "hurtful" or "harmful". This language of "hurt" and "harm" is simply an excuse to prevent the public from hearing the facts.

"We should stop speech that hurts people."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Abugabby
Because the left thinks the scientific evaluation by a doctor or scientist that differs from the left-wing world view is "hurtful" or "harmful". This language of "hurt" and "harm" is simply an excuse to prevent the public from hearing the facts.

"We should stop speech that hurts people."
"speech is violence" ... is one of the dumbest arguments in the history of mankind.
 
"speech is violence" ... is one of the dumbest arguments in the history of mankind.
During the 2016 campaign, students at Ball State were claiming that "Vote Trump" signs were hate speech. I notice Ball State did not appear on the list of schools upholding free speech.
 
You use the terms "hurt" and "harm". What do those terms mean, in your mind?

If a far-right business leader is invited to speak on the virtues of capitalism, should he/she be permitted? And if they speak about the risks of Obama-care?

I’m not going to discuss politics. Both of those words have definitions that you can look at to understand what they mean.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT