I'm Saying It Since No One Else Will: Future of Purdue Football > Basketball

[boilerHup]

I agree with the premise of the original post.

It's not because Painter is a bad coach. It's not because of recruiting. It's not because of how easy or difficult it is to make the Final Four or the CFP.

It's because there's a lot more potential for disruption in football than basketball. The 3-point revolution in basketball has already taken place. In the absence of major rule changes, it's hard to see someone coming along and playing a totally different style that gets everybody back on their toes. The Warriors already did it. In basketball, the NBA leads and college follows.

In football, not only is there a lot more flexibility for someone to get creative, but because of the large number of players and smaller number of plays, analytics has a much harder time "solving" football. In football, college leads and the NFL follows.

And our boy Jeff Brohm looks like he has major potential to be that disruptive force. We averaged something like 1.5 trick plays last year. Give Brohm a roster full of athletes who can do a lot from several different positions, and the man could even get more creative. After five years, we might not even call them "trick" plays anymore. It'll just be the "Purdue-style offense".

If the future of Purdue football is brighter, it's because Purdue football has a chance to pave the way for the future of football in general. That's not a path that's available to the basketball program.

 

[PU52Chevy]

I love posts like this ….it makes it easier to figure out who to put on ignore.

 

[Wolegib]

there were a couple of good points made.

I like the point made that in football, there are many different ways to build a successful team, and it allows the coach flexibility. That was what made Tiller so successful. he designed an offense that other BIG 10 coaches had not seen or played against previously, and it took them several years to build a defense that could contain it.

I liked the comment that criticized Painter's lack of ability to reel in the elite recruits. However, he does reel in a lot more 4 star athletes than most of his counterparts. he has also said he goes after certain players that he feels fit his system. the question is, will he change his motion offense and recruit different players? Will he employ a zone defense? Will he change his style of play to playground AAU style to attract those elite athletes? Will he hire an AAU coach or dad as an assistant to gain a certain 5 star recruit like Zo did?

there is a point made about Painter's coaching ability. most say it is great. and if only given more talent, he'd be successful. I'm not sure if Purdue's success under Painter is due to his coaching ability or the actual talent he brings in. I say this because Painter has also coached several USA college all star teams that did not live up to their hype. to me, anything less than the gold medal at the Pan Am games is a major disappointment. and admittedly, that last college all star team with Langford and Carsen that lost was coached by Caliparri, but Painter helped put the team together. I expected Purdue to win the World games.

Talent is always important. I believe Painter and Purdue basketball will always be a top 4 team in the BIG 10, top 25 team nationally, and an annual NCAA tourney team. To most fans, that's a tremendous accomplishment. and the NCAA tourney is all about matchups and luck. Was Loyola really a final 4 caliber team? they made several lucky shots, and could have very easily been ousted in the first round. Was it coaching? talent? the match-ups? or luck?

it's nice to see Purdue football successful once more. however, Purdue basketball is already a successful and respected team. and with success, it's natural that fans want more. I wonder what Duke and UK fans were saying after last year ? With the talent each team had last year, their coaches must be complete idiots for not making the Final 4. the question will always be, if Painter had their talent, could he lead them to a final 4? Sometimes having too much talent detracts from winning and playing as a team.

 

[bodog57]

I don't give a f#*k

 

[BoilerAndy]

I’m not one to usually stir the hornets nest...but in my experience when someone says something along those lines...it usually means they don’t care that people think they are an asshole.

And it's always fun to watch people who don't care if others don't agree with them. They follow up by arguing with those who don't agree with them. Apparently they do care.

 

[Wolegib]

And it's always fun to watch people who don't care if others don't agree with them. They follow up by arguing with those who don't agree with them. Apparently they do care.

Well, I care

 

[hoosierdog1]

Wow. And here I was thinking IU fans were prematurely celebrating.

I like Brohm and I’m sure he will have a lot of success. But he barely made .500 and won a bowl game this season. Painter’s team was top 16 of the entire league last year.

You can believe that Brohm’s future is brighter. That is plausible. But you can’t say anyone who disagrees is uninformed. That is just rude and not true.

Yea but remember PU was only picked to win 2-3 games in football.Vegas had the over under at 2and a half.Made some good money on that bet!

 

[mathboy]

Who cares if you don't want to see him post? Don't read it. All opinions are welcome. And quite frankly he made some good points. Main one being painter doesn't recruit at a high enough level to win a championship. Every reasonable poster acknowledges painter is a decent coach and if he was able to land better talent could probably get us over the s16 ceiling.

Now, inb4 your holier then thou tirade and how painter can win a national championship with a team primarily composed of 3 stars.

Hey John, I don't give a f&@k if you like my response to the OP's tirade.

... And... Hard to tell, but I just might be holier than thou...

I kid, It's all good.

 

[Wolegib]

Hey John, I don't give a f&@k if you like my response to the OP's tirade.

... And... Hard to tell, but I just might be holier than thou...

I kid, It's all good.

I think I'm holier than you today . just look at the bullets and knives shot at me today on the football board. Word to the wise - never suggest some outside the box thinking on this site.

 

[typeviic]

I don't give a f#*k if you agree with me or not, but I feel like our football team will be in the football playoff w/ Brohm before we make the final 4 w/ Painter (hope I'm wrong).

Don't get me wrong, I'm okay with Painter and went to school when he played. Met my expectation last year with a sweet 16 appearance just like I've predicted before the season. Kinda know what to expect from him, decent recruiter therefore pretty good teams for the most part. Top 3-4 teams in the B1G most years with a sweet 16 every once in a while. Straight up man-to-man defense no matter what, even though an occasional zone can be a monkey wrench if nothing else. Probably top 3-4 coaches in the B1G after Beilein & Izzo (anyone arguing this fact is uninformed), but somehow I don't see him getting to the final 4 in the foreseeable future unless our recruiting picks up. And with Miller now getting most of the top Indiana recruits I'm just not seeing it.

How far our football program will go with Brohm (if we are able to keep him here), it's still to be determined, but It's a amazing what the right coach can possibly do for you...

I agree. CMP has been around for 13 years. Only 1, 5 star recruit. That other guy down south that nobody has ever heard of, from a mid-major, ('Little Charlie' or whatever), has the New Albany kid literally fall into his lap without even trying. And more 5's will be going there. A power 5 Conf team in Indiana is not enough I guess. MSU and UM dont seem to gave that problem. From a hockey state no-less.

 

[Wolegib]

Maybe Painter isn't the greatest recruiter in the world. However, he just transformed a bunch of unwanted players and got them NBA contracts. Dakota, Haas and Vince are all headed to the NBA. Carsen is now projected to be an NBA first round pick next year. and Eastern received an NBA combine invite. for somebody who can't recruit, that's pretty darn good.

and his teams win too.

he may not be a Caliparri, Coach K or Izzo, but he's the next best thing. I have to believe our players were drafted and received FA contracts partly because NBA teams know they are fundamentally sound players in part due to Painter's coaching. .

I can see a guy like Romeo going anywhere he wants and not worrying about who the coach is. but players come to Purdue because they believe Painter can make their NBA dreams come true.

I remember the day Haas changed his mind and signed with Purdue. He and his dad said they believed coming to Purdue would provide him the best chance of living his dream to play in the NBA. he may not have been drafted, but he got that chance. he got that invite and foot in the door. Painter made that possible.

I don't know what people want or expect of Painter. No, he hasn't produced an NCAA championship. But he still has plenty of years left - and hopefully those years will be at Purdue.

 

[BoilerIron]

Maybe Painter isn't the greatest recruiter in the world. However, he just transformed a bunch of unwanted players and got them NBA contracts. Dakota, Haas and Vince are all headed to the NBA. Carsen is now projected to be an NBA first round pick next year. and Eastern received an NBA combine invite. for somebody who can't recruit, that's pretty darn good.

and his teams win too.

he may not be a Caliparri, Coach K or Izzo, but he's the next best thing. I have to believe our players were drafted and received FA contracts partly because NBA teams know they are fundamentally sound players in part due to Painter's coaching. .

I can see a guy like Romeo going anywhere he wants and not worrying about who the coach is. but players come to Purdue because they believe Painter can make their NBA dreams come true.

I remember the day Haas changed his mind and signed with Purdue. He and his dad said they believed coming to Purdue would provide him the best chance of living his dream to play in the NBA. he may not have been drafted, but he got that chance. he got that invite and foot in the door. Painter made that possible.

I don't know what people want or expect of Painter. No, he hasn't produced an NCAA championship. But he still has plenty of years left - and hopefully those years will be at Purdue.

Imagine what he could do with coveted recruits....

 

[Wolegib]

Imagine what he could do with coveted recruits....

that's the big $4 million question. Painter took Purdue just as far this year as MSU, UK and Duke went. Based on the NBA draft, their teams each had a bunch of really coveted players.

as coaching goes, I kind of like the job the Villanova coach is doing.

 

[BoilerIron]

that's the big $4 million question. Painter took Purdue just as far this year as MSU, UK and Duke went. Based on the NBA draft, their teams each had a bunch of really coveted players.

as coaching goes, I kind of like the job the Villanova coach is doing.

You are basing it off one year. Compare Purdue's success vs those programs over the last 13 years.

Everyone here likes what the Villanova coach is doing. That requires getting coveted players as well (Brunson).

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

People didn't like it when I posted this, but it's happening. We will challenge for the BIG West title next year and beyond and with any luck (beating Michigan/OSU) in the BIG title game we COULD be in the talk for one of playoff spots in the next 2-3 years.

With the successes in football, it will put pressure on the basketball side rather you like it or not.

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Dakota, Haas and Vince are all headed to the NBA

Dakota is in Europe and probably won’t sniff the NBA. I will give him that before painter Dakota was going to be in the Enterprise Rental Car management trainee program post graduation.

 

[Hatchets7times]

Those football classes are good.
But not big boy good. ..I could see a Rose Bowl..
But no way playoffs. .
Playoffs !!

 

[purduepat1969]

This is a very emotionally charged posting that lacks logic or data. I hope that ChiTown Boiler uses more critical thinking than that demonstrated here when at work, or in public locations. However to directly paraphrase him, "I don't a f#'k if he does or not".

Just poking the bear...

I bet your wife or significant other loves living with your "logic" 24/7!!

 

[*4purdue*]

Wow. And here I was thinking IU fans were prematurely celebrating.

I like Brohm and I’m sure he will have a lot of success. But he barely made .500 and won a bowl game this season. Painter’s team was top 16 of the entire league last year.

You can believe that Brohm’s future is brighter. That is plausible. But you can’t say anyone who disagrees is uninformed. That is just rude and not true.

He won more games in his 1st year than the previous coach won in 4.. & he did it with Hazel's players. We've seen 14 years of CMP & all know by now that he is GK2.0. We're never going to get to a FF... maybe not even an E8 while he is here. His style of coaching is outdated & doesn't work in the tournament. Heck, Brohm almost had us in the B1G championship game in his 2nd year. I never thought I would see the day where I though Purdue has a better chance at making a College FB playoff that it does a Final 4. If Brohm has the success we all think he will have with his own players, as much as recruiting has improved...I think it's possible.

 

[boiler-deuce]

It's pretty hard to believe the same Painter worshippers are trying to get everyone to pump the brakes on Brohm. Painter has been mostly mediocre over a long period of time. Brohm has transformed the football program in 2 years. This smells like a bunch painter illegitimate children. Otherwise why would you force yourself against the current rolling in Brohms river. And line up to defend Painter and his Wabash river cesspool. I'm in the move on from Painter crowd. We've seen his peak. I don't think he ever takes out the previous high.

 

[chaspark]

He won more games in his 1st year than the previous coach won in 4.. & he did it with Hazel's players. We've seen 14 years of CMP & all know by now that he is GK2.0. We're never going to get to a FF... maybe not even an E8 while he is here. His style of coaching is outdated & doesn't work in the tournament. Heck, Brohm almost had us in the B1G championship game in his 2nd year. I never thought I would see the day where I though Purdue has a better chance at making a College FB playoff that it does a Final 4. If Brohm has the success we all think he will have with his own players, as much as recruiting has improved...I think it's possible.

Yes, Brohm almost got us in the B1G championship game in his 2nd year. Painter has ACTUALLY WON the B1G champioinship twice, 3 times if you count the B1G tournament championship. I'd say so far Painter has been doing better. Jeff Brohm may surpass him. In fact, I'm counting on it. But it's not set in stone. He might get poached by NFL before he actually gets to a playoff game. What if then?

I'm not putting down Jeff Brohm. I think he is the greatest thing ever to happen to Purdue football. What I hate is using him to put down our other program.

 

[chaspark]

It's pretty hard to believe the same Painter worshippers are trying to get everyone to pump the brakes on Brohm. Painter has been mostly mediocre over a long period of time. Brohm has transformed the football program in 2 years. This smells like a bunch painter illegitimate children. Otherwise why would you force yourself against the current rolling in Brohms river. And line up to defend Painter and his Wabash river cesspool. I'm in the move on from Painter crowd. We've seen his peak. I don't think he ever takes out the previous high.

You do realize that reaching the NCAA tournament is actually tougher than reaching a bowl game, right? If you win 20 out of 30, you might still miss the tournament. In football, if you win 6 out of 12, you're automatically eligible.

Again, I'm not putting down Jeff Brohm. I just hate people using what is good for our football program to put down our basketball program. We can demand more for our basketball program, that's okay. But considering that our basketball budget is in the bottom 3 of the entire B1G while staying on top 4 in the conference almost every year, I can't say we are doing bad. We are also not mediocre. Sweet Sixteen is NOT a joke. Sure, it's not Elite Eight nor Final Four, but you can't call reaching the to 5% of the entire NCAA "mediocre." That's just not true.

 

[mathboy]

I bet your wife or significant other loves living with your "logic" 24/7!!

I try not to discuss my personal life here. Maybe someday over a beer.

 

[proudopete]

A great leader is not someone who knows it all, but someone who knows his weaknesses. If you can't recruit the top talents, it's your job to get someone who can.

Have you ever wonder why how some one like him get a girl like her or someone so nondescript become the richest person you have ever known? It's not luck, successful people take calculated risk.



What a waste of bandwidth...



I don't post to get approval unlike some on here. I just say it like it is.

If you aren’t posting for approval on here, then why even post at all?

 

[BeerbellyBoiler]

As of now Brohm>Painter. Brohm has brought excitement to his fan base and has won the trenches in his own backyard as far as recruiting h.s. in this state. IMO CMP has reached his ceiling and his stubbornness and lack of willingness to change his old school recruiting style has his falling behind most in the Big10. Painter needs to hire a sure fire recruiter like Brohm has in Shephard.

 

[BoilerDeac]

I don't see a Brohm led PU team in the National Playoff ever.

That's the whole point. The fact that people feel better about Purdue's chances for a playoff appearance with Brohm than they do about a Final 4 with Painter says everything about Painter's ceiling.

 

[BoilerDeac]

If you aren’t posting for approval on here, then why even post at all?

huh?

i hope he's successful.
the same people wanting to give him a lifetime contract will be calling for him to be fired if he doesn't win the B1G in 7 years and every other year after that :-(

Nah, Brohm is a forward-thinking, really intelligent guy. His entire style is different than Painter's. It's obvious. Painter is fine, but nothing special.

Brohm is special.

 

[lbodel]

That's the whole point. The fact that people feel better about Purdue's chances for a playoff appearance with Brohm than they do about a Final 4 with Painter says everything about Painter's ceiling.

This is quite possibly one of the dumbest threads I've seen.

Painter has done a ton for Purdue, and for Purdue fans. To say he's not intelligent - that's just moronic.

And by the way, you can like BOTH the football and basketball coach. It's not just one or the other. They both coach at Purdue. But to disrespect one for the other - that's just petty. You're a pathetic fan.

 

[Poprudy]

Yea but remember PU was only picked to win 2-3 games in football.Vegas had the over under at 2and a half.Made some good money on that bet!

True, just as taking the over yesterday. Sometimes Vegas hands you money and that's when you take.

 

[hoosierdog1]

True, just as taking the over yesterday. Sometimes Vegas hands you money and that's when you take.

Also giving up 3.5 and taking Auburn!

 

[Poprudy]

Also giving up 3.5 and taking Auburn!

Yeah, can't play against or for my own team. Just one of my betting peeves.

 

[hoosierdog1]

Yeah, can't play against or for my own team. Just one of my betting peeves.

Yea I didn't bet it either Damn! lol

 

[BoilerDeac]

This is quite possibly one of the dumbest threads I've seen.

Painter has done a ton for Purdue, and for Purdue fans. To say he's not intelligent - that's just moronic.

And by the way, you can like BOTH the football and basketball coach. It's not just one or the other. They both coach at Purdue. But to disrespect one for the other - that's just petty. You're a pathetic fan.

Wait, are you dumb? When did I say Painter wasn’t intelligent?

 

[lbodel]

Wait, are you dumb? When did I say Painter wasn’t intelligent?

"Nah, Brohm is a forward-thinking, really intelligent guy. His entire style is different than Painter's. It's obvious."

So Brohm's style is intelligent and forward-thinking ....entirely different than Painter's. Sure sounds like you meant Painter's not smart.

 

[tjreese]

I agree with the premise of the original post.

It's not because Painter is a bad coach. It's not because of recruiting. It's not because of how easy or difficult it is to make the Final Four or the CFP.

It's because there's a lot more potential for disruption in football than basketball. The 3-point revolution in basketball has already taken place. In the absence of major rule changes, it's hard to see someone coming along and playing a totally different style that gets everybody back on their toes. The Warriors already did it. In basketball, the NBA leads and college follows.

In football, not only is there a lot more flexibility for someone to get creative, but because of the large number of players and smaller number of plays, analytics has a much harder time "solving" football. In football, college leads and the NFL follows.

And our boy Jeff Brohm looks like he has major potential to be that disruptive force. We averaged something like 1.5 trick plays last year. Give Brohm a roster full of athletes who can do a lot from several different positions, and the man could even get more creative. After five years, we might not even call them "trick" plays anymore. It'll just be the "Purdue-style offense".

If the future of Purdue football is brighter, it's because Purdue football has a chance to pave the way for the future of football in general. That's not a path that's available to the basketball program.

Yep, the shot clock in general has made the teams much more similar and the increased possessions has improved teh accuracy of the statistics. Throwing a 7 with two die is 6/36 or 16.7%. Throwing the dice a few times most likley will be off the 16.7% of the throws, but do it enough and the numbers get more accurate...same with basketball analytics.

 

[Fansince72]

Why do I get the feeling it's a Chicago thing?

 

[BoilerDeac]

"Nah, Brohm is a forward-thinking, really intelligent guy. His entire style is different than Painter's. It's obvious."

So Brohm's style is intelligent and forward-thinking ....entirely different than Painter's. Sure sounds like you meant Painter's not smart.

lol not at all. Just because I called Brohm intelligent doesn't mean I think Painter is unintelligent.

Sheesh.

 

[Wolegib]

when I saw the words brohm, in almos t every sentence, I saw the word ALMOST. he ALMOST did this. he ALMOST did that. the fact is he ALMOST was able to recruit Weaver, Hunter, Cam and Robinson. He almost coached Purdue to the Western Championship. he almost beat UW. But the facts are , he didn't.

I see ALMOST the same comments about Painter, except the words are "IF ONLY" if Only Izzo had retired. if only Zach randolph and JJJ signed with Purdue. if only hummel wasn't injured. if only Arkansas little rock and Cincy didn't me those last second shots. but the facts are, it happened.

They are both good coaches. but please don't praise them for coming close or for events that never happened. brohm is 14-14. before predicting he'll win a Big 10 or national play-off appearance, it would be nice if he first actually guided Purdue to a championship game.

And please don't praise Brohm for how much better he is than Hazell. Even I could have gotten better results than Hazell. brohm is BETTER than Hazell. how many more times and threads do we need to say it. he's better than IU's coach as well. he had a great recruiting class. However, if you want to see a truly great recruiting class , look at Auburn's . There's was even better than ours and good enough to get the m a 4th place finish in the SEC. As it currently stands, Purdue's class was the 4/5th best in the BIG 10. That is not what national play-off appearances are made of.

Sometimes, people go overboard in their optimism. both the basketball and football programs are good programs. National championship contenders? No. not any time soon. Will they ever be? let's win a BIG 10 championship first .

 

[lbodel]

lol not at all. Just because I called Brohm intelligent doesn't mean I think Painter is unintelligent.

Sheesh.

Just saying what it came across as - if that's not what you meant, great.