I'm a Painter supporter....but what if
- Thread starter TwinDegrees2
- Start date
You can be a purdue fan and not have a purdue degree. Purdue needs sub alums. Lots of them.
Absolutely, not disputing that. But I'm just curious if these keyboard warriors who constantly rag on the state of Purdue athletics are actually Purdue grads, or just see Purdue for their main source of entertainment.
I'm a Purdue grad...I can see the degree hanging on my office wall. Does that mean I can't be critical of the state of affairs for Purdue athletics? Tell me what exactly we have to be excited about? The football team might win 4-5 games and then we're getting a new coach (which, I guess that's pretty exciting), the basketball team has bowed out in the first round or the NCAA the last 2 years and while there's some things to be excited about this year, I don't think recruiting is going as anyone would have expected. There's definitely cause for concern there.
So, you can be glass half empty or glass half full, but being blindly loyal and not acknowledging the truthful state of affairs doesn't mean your any more or less loyal than someone who calls a spade a spade.
Listed a bunch yesterday. You haven't responded.
Oh, and yes if you go somewhere less informed where the people don't follow Purdue as closely as the people on this board then you are more likely to get people to agree with you.
Less informed = more inclined to agree with RD73
More informed = less likely to agree with RD73
Congrats!
There's a difference between "blindly loyal" & accepting reality. The fact that you get THIS worked up over Purdue sports speaks volumes. There's a way to be critical & reasonable at the same time. Too bad 100% of the time you come off as an pompous wank, ready to shit on anything Purdue related. Have some damn pride for Gods sake.
Screw that. One of the things I like about Purdue is that we have fewer fans that identify with the university only through sports. Notre Dame and IU can keep the sub alum population for all I care.
I'm definitely not a fan of the reversible jacket hill jacks.
The more I think about this the funnier it becomes. RD73 goes running to the national board and asks random fans very specific Purdue-related questions. I can only imagine how little the random fans from various parts of the country know or care about Purdue or Matt Painter's time at Purdue. Think about it, if an FSU fan were asking you about your opinion of their coach, how informed would your opinion be? More importantly, how much would you care to even learn about the situation?
Meanwhile, RD73 continues to desperately plead his case to these random fans around the country that CMP is average or worse. I'm sure these other fans could give two craps, roll their eyes, agree to whatever you're saying, and move on.
It's kind of silly for you to question my pride in Purdue since you don't know me other than what I post on an anonymous message board.
That being said, the reason I'm critical of certain things is that I expect and want Purdue to be better than average or good periodically. It upsets me when I hear 'fans' making excuses for why Purdue can't be great, why Purdue can't compete or why some athletes don't sign with Purdue. In my professional life, making excuses gets you fired. People don't want excuses they want results. There are expectations and then accountability.
Purdue has all the financial resources it needs; it's the commitment and belief from the BOD and administrators that's lacking.
I didn't attend purdue but I am big sports fan and purdue has been my team always no matter what sport they play. I didn't have to attend purdue to love them.
If you think that's what did in the football program, then you need to take a closer look.
Yes, Hazell is a problem, but the perception of Purdue football, in recruits minds, had been dwindling before Hazell got here.
Every post from the anti Matt crowd makes mention of the last two upset losses in the dance as some sort mantra for their arguments against Painter.I was as mad as any Purdue fan........had to repair some drywall after the ALR loss. It's not a deal breaker for me. Upsets happen in the dance. ALR hit some crazy shots to win. It happens every year to lots of good coaches....someone mentioned Jay Wright the other day. Is it because it happened two years in a row? Would it be the same if it was only one year? Really don't get it.
Do what you want. I can't stop you. I'm just glad there are fewer fans like you associated with Purdue than some other schools.
yeah well that is because so many see the good players in 2017. However, Vince and Haas could be back and the next year be good for Purdue making the 2018 critical. When the ball is thrown the game takes on a life of its own and there are so many things at play that striking out in 2017 which won't happen probably. There are many good players out there that want to get better and could be a surprise. Purdue needs to win...THAT is the bottom line and it is easier with good players. However, if Purdue had good players and never won the fires would be much hotter I suspect...
Jay Wright is but one example. Bo Ryan is another. Really, if you know much about college basketball at all you can see the holes in their argument.
See now I have said a few times in the past lenny that I think that if you and I ever met out in the world, we'd agree on a lot and spend some time over a few beers discussing things in a civil manner. The funny thing is I actually GET where you are coming from, there are just a couple points we don't agree on as far as how to get there. And you know what? THAT IS OKAY!
For example, if Painter whiffs completely on the 17 class I can most certainly agree that some sort of change needs to happen. Not saying Painter should be fired, but philosophy/tactics/recruiting persona would need to be looked at for sure.
As far as the stigma that Purdue is hard to recruit to, I think there is some truth to that. Now, I completely understand your point of view as to why it is that way and from my 2 cents I think it has to do with how Purdue is seen in the world. Meaning, in my travels I have been told (and others have posted the same thing here) that those that don't know much about Purdue seem to think it's an Ivy League school. And I think that stigma hasn't changed much even though it isn't true. Sure it's one of the top Engineering schools in the world and maybe people think classes would be too hard (I have no idea, it is pure speculation) but it is up to the coaching staff to "sell" the correct image of Purdue. Again that is just my 2 cents and I am by no means telling you how to post, but there simply could be a million different reasons why a player doesn't choose us and the only people that truly know the reason are probably that player and his family.
We all want Purdue to be successful, there is no question. From my point of view (and I am not trying to tell you how to post your thoughts), since Painter is under contract and most likely as long as he continues to have top rated teams, he won't go anywhere until the contract is up. If we stagnate and don't see any upward movement, then I look at it in a similar method to how I deal with my IT employees... while I wouldn't fire them, they most likely would be moved to a different position. Basically, I would look to make a change.
I don't question your pride in Purdue I just question your priorities in life.
One of my favorite arguments is comparing this professional life and how if you make excuses you get fired. So if you don't attain 100% of your goals all the time then you get fired? Glad I don't work there because either you are setting pathetically low goals or you are probably firing some very good people. Your people shouldn't be meeting all of their goals or they aren't collectively aiming high enough.
What if you have a sales guy that didn't meet his quota? Is he automatically fired? Do you take into account other factors? How high did he set his goal? Did he miss it by alot? Were there any mitigating circumstances (aka "excuses" in your vernacular) ?
There's a big picture that anyone that has a clue about managing people knows they need to look at. Little internet fanboys and their bruised egos probably don't grasp that.
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RealDeal73:
Comparative Literature '92 with honors
Currently coordinator of Purdue Online Writing Lab
Why would you want to stop me. I don't understand "I wish there were fewer fans like you" comment as if you can only be a fan if you attended Purdue. I disagree with that thought. I want more fans of Purdue whether they attended Purdue or not.
I don't want to stop you. Just because I recognize your right to do something doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Those are two separate issues.
Why I like a fan base with few sub alums? I just like being a part of a fan base where the connection is deeper than the sports teams for most. I like that when I meet a new person and find out they are a Purdue fan, the odds are very good that we can have a discussion about when they went to Purdue, where they lived, if they sledded down Slayter Hill, what they like at XXX, or if they ever did a fountain run. The conversation goes deeper than grousing about the state of the football program or if we had a disappointing ending to basketball season.
In fact, I am in sales and have been for a long time. To whom much is given, much is expected. I'm not sure what you do, but when you're in sales, your single most important goal is to meet your quota and make your number. That's why I say "expectations and accountability".
If you can't make your number, someone else can. There's not a lot of tolerance for underachieving.
You're right, you wouldn't be able to handle what I do.
I probably wouldn't be able to work at a company with such low sales goals. Not enough money to be made.
Starting to feel like an outsider as a Purdue fan on the Purdue board. I just don't agree with TCs comment that he wants less Purdue fans. he stated he didn't agree with me being a Purdue fan or at least that's the way I read it. His second paragraph i understand and thanks for the explanation. anyways boiler up.
Listen, all I know is that Western Kentucky University has a commitment from a top 10 player... If an average mid-major can get a commitment from a top 10 team, then anyone can get commitments from anyone. We may strike out on all 5 of the BIG 5 that Painter is recruiting. He may end up with a couple of sub-par top 150 recruits this year.
In 2018 he may get another McD AA, or a class like the Baby Boilers in '07. Nobody has a clue where these kids are going, whether they're a top 150 kid, top 50, or top 10. The fact of the matter, to me, is how well can Painter coach, and what are his priorities. If he holds his players accountable, which he has every year minus the Ronnie Johnson years, then I'm okay with it. I know he's going to get players who fit his scheme, which is play hard defense, smart offense, and don't make mistakes. And if he continues to do that, we will have a winning program, because heart and willpower can overcome a slightly more talented team 9/10 times.
In 2018 he may get another McD AA, or a class like the Baby Boilers in '07. Nobody has a clue where these kids are going, whether they're a top 150 kid, top 50, or top 10. The fact of the matter, to me, is how well can Painter coach, and what are his priorities. If he holds his players accountable, which he has every year minus the Ronnie Johnson years, then I'm okay with it. I know he's going to get players who fit his scheme, which is play hard defense, smart offense, and don't make mistakes. And if he continues to do that, we will have a winning program, because heart and willpower can overcome a slightly more talented team 9/10 times.
I don't really agree with not having as many Purdue fans. I have plenty of friends who love Purdue sports & didn't attend the school. I think that's fine. But it's the people who never attended & are so invested yet don't realize that there is more to Purdue than just athletics.
Hmmm you know this raises an interesting notion for me. I wonder if one's "outlook" on Purdue sports is impacted by the type of job they do? For example for myself, former military to IT security contractor (both self-employed now working globally) so I deal with a lot of "1's" and "0's" and absolutes. I'm very much in a "wait and see" type of position now because if I have a knee-jerk reaction, well... people can end up in a heap of trouble
.That is an interesting idea you have going on here Lenny..... curious if it applies to others on here as well.
What do you put the chances at of Painter reaching the FF or winning a NC in the next 3 years?
Don't you think his 'scheme' might need to change? Maybe defense shouldn't be the priority? Maybe is should be to get more possessions and outscore people?
While having a winning program is obviously the goal, Keady had a winning program but didn't reach a FF in 25 years. Painters going on 13 without FF. That's way too long for a program most would consider to be pretty good.
Hmmm you know this raises an interesting notion for me. I wonder if one's "outlook" on Purdue sports is impacted by the type of job they do? For example for myself, former military to IT security contractor (both self-employed now working globally) so I deal with a lot of "1's" and "0's" and absolutes. I'm very much in a "wait and see" type of position now because if I have a knee-jerk reaction, well... people can end up in a heap of trouble
That is an interesting idea you have going on here Lenny..... curious if it applies to others on here as well.
Regarding the 'Outlook' and again, I harp on expectations and accountability.
Why do coaches typically only get 4-6 year contracts? Why not 10 years?.....Because if that coach isn't meeting expectations, they're going to be fired.
The question is, at PU, what are those expectations? Are they different than MSU, L'ville, UNC or IU? If so, why? Are ours higher or lower?
Hmmm you know this raises an interesting notion for me. I wonder if one's "outlook" on Purdue sports is impacted by the type of job they do? For example for myself, former military to IT security contractor (both self-employed now working globally) so I deal with a lot of "1's" and "0's" and absolutes. I'm very much in a "wait and see" type of position now because if I have a knee-jerk reaction, well... people can end up in a heap of trouble
That is an interesting idea you have going on here Lenny..... curious if it applies to others on here as well.
In reading this over again, I see he introduced the word "quota" in place of "goal". Now I'm not in sales so maybe I'm interpreting this incorrectly but the two are certainly not the same thing as I think of them. A quota is like the minimum amount you can get by with. A goal is something you are aiming for that is above and beyond the minimum requirement to merely keep your job. So yea if you apply those definitions then we are still talking about two different things.
And anyone with common sense would still factor in circumstances when evaluating either. If you had a salesman that met his quota his first four years and was one of your top salesmen last year but he fell just short of the quota for the first time this year, you'd want to look at that more closely before you just axed him. If you find out that he had wife/kid with serious medical issues last year then you would probably consider that in any decision you were making. Then again, I'm not a sales guy. Maybe they don't care about that type of stuff.
Personally I think our expectations are lower .... but just for now. And what I mean by that is you build up to the expectation of an MSU/etc. Which I don't know if it will happen under Painter or not, but for now things seem to be heading that way. Granted the early tourney exit doesn't make it seem that way, but to me a consistent season of high rankings and top tier conference finishes indicate things are heading in the right direction.
Again just my perception and nothing more.
Good points. I don't know enough about sales (that profession takes a special breed anyway IMO) to even begin to try and apply those concepts. The context from the analogy I used for IT also may not be the best as well, simply because in my profession if someone stagnates, they fall behind and things change too rapidly to let stagnation go for too long.
I don't agree with you 60% of the time on the basketball board, but I know you are a real Boilermaker regardless. You are not a troll in my book. boilersallthewaynow and Real Deal smell like trolls, and it has little to do with their positions on issues.
'77 Purdue grad, per my name. Academic honors blah-blah-blah, none of which make my postings (or rants) here more or less credible.
We've been rehashing a lot of pro-/anti-Painter sentiments that have been on these boards for years. I am neutral on that. I think he's a good, but not great, coach who's had ups and downs, made mistakes (which I, as a fan, have suffered through) and enjoyed successes (which I have deeply enjoyed).
I like where our program is now, but am still waiting to see successes from recruiting the vaunted 2017 class. I suspect some of the agitation/repetition of sentiments registered to date this thread mirror that anxiety.
We've been rehashing a lot of pro-/anti-Painter sentiments that have been on these boards for years. I am neutral on that. I think he's a good, but not great, coach who's had ups and downs, made mistakes (which I, as a fan, have suffered through) and enjoyed successes (which I have deeply enjoyed).
I like where our program is now, but am still waiting to see successes from recruiting the vaunted 2017 class. I suspect some of the agitation/repetition of sentiments registered to date this thread mirror that anxiety.
I wasn't wordsmithing there. Just interchanged goal with quota. Meeting quota is always the 'goal', but then, you'll often have 'stretch' goals that you'd love to hit but are a little above and beyond what you're expected to hit.
Obviously all circumstances are taken into consideration, including past performance, etc. But, when you have someone who is consistently underachieving, not meeting goal, etc, then that's cause for concern.
Relating this to Painter, his career at Purdue seems to have been like a rollercoaster but with rounded hills at the top, not peaks (which would be a FF or NC), but he's also seen the deep valleys (last place B10, upsets in 1st round of NCAA).
The question is, is that trajectory going up again? An indicator would be recruiting and I think most of us on here, who follow the team and news, would say that there's some cause for concern since MP hasn't landed any of the top instate '17 guys. Now, that could all change by this afternoon, but if we fill the class with guys that weren't really top priorities, then that's definitely something to worry about.
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