Why I didn't respond. Not sure why he wants all to know he's an idiot, but he certainly is doing a bang up job of it.
How long can Boiler Basketball avoid being portaled?
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Why I didn't respond. Not sure why he wants all to know he's an idiot, but he certainly is doing a bang up job of it.
You're still not explaining how a path to the NBA is an argument in favor of Purdue. No one has. And I even said their arguments are developing players and winning conference championships. But how is a path to the NBA and argument in favor for Purdue over other schools?
Because every season or two Painter and Purdue send an unheralded player to the league whether they stick or not, most get a ton of money and a chance they wouldn't have had almost anywhere else. Going backwards over the past decade you have:
Edey - HS rank 416, Drafted - 9, 2024
Ivey - HS rank 89 Drafted - 5, 2022
C. Edwards - HS rank 302, Drafted - 33, 2019
V. Edwards - HS rank 157, Drafted - 52, 2018
Swanigan - HS rank 33, Drafted - 26, 2017
Hammons - HS rank 74, Drafted - 46, 2016
You go back to his early years he had 4 more over 8 years, so again about every year to two years he gets someone in the league that absolutely shouldn't be outside of Swanigan. If you look at the above a trend that is pretty easy to see is that the draft position has gotten steadily better (as has our team). The pitch is Mr. Talented kid who isn't quite destined for the lottery yet, come to Purdue and we can get you there. There are better NBA feeder schools, but for that second tier of talent Purdue is a pretty great place to get the nod.
I believe it to be accurate even though I can't recall a source.
Wow... That's gonna really convince people... So 6 dudes, 7 with Landry in an almost 20 year span? Yea... Probably not what Painter is talking about to recruits. He might tell them if they work their butts off and produce they can go. But he isn't using it as a selling point by any means. And I don't see him being unrealistic and giving high hopes to dudes who think they are Jaden Ivey or Zach Edey when they aren't.
Well, I was going to respond with the general terms of having players not considered to have a shot at the NBA before college and then those players getting a shot. So for those that were not graced with the athletic ability and destined for the NBA if they keep a good head, many previously not considered candidates for the NBA were given some consideration after Purdue. You did great and glad I read it before typing more, but I'm right there with you.
Matt is like the teacher who has a class with 110/115 cognitive index, where some other teachers are filled with 130 scores and they take a criterion type test and Matt's students show the greatest student gain (TVAAS
) , but the other teachers students scored higher, but the student gains were much smaller during each teacher's duration with their respective class.
You’re a kindergartner asking us to teach you Differential Equations. Not worth the time or energy.
I mean the principle is solid, but let's be real, if Big Dog reincarnated shows up, he's guaranteed a starting spot.“If that timeline involved the guarantee of a big 2024-25 role in which to showcase his talents, Painter was not inclined to change a long-standing practice of letting those situations play out organically.
"I think every freshman that comes in has those uncertain thoughts," Painter said. "But you know, you compete and earn your way into a role. I can't anoint a role to somebody out of thin air. You walk in, you compete.”
Purdue's Matt Painter on Kanon Catchings' exit: 'I can't anoint a role to somebody out of thin air.'
"It's just one of those deals where he was concerned about his role," Matt Painter said of Kanon Catchings' departure for BYU.www.indystar.com
'Just be a truth teller.' How Matt Painter's honesty in recruiting has Purdue winning big.
“I would break down things (to recruits) and my assistants would be like, ‘If you keep going this route, we’ll have nobody on our team.'"www.indystar.com
I don't have a problem not guaranteeing a guy like Catchings who seems to be too mentally unreliable to be given a starting spot even if physically I think he would be helpful right now. I'm not moved by state in a completely different scheme and program.
I do think Painter absolutely would tell a top 10 player he was starting if that's what it took to seal the deal.
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Three are 3 types of NBA recruits:
1. The no brainer 1 or Max 2 and doner. Painter doesn't recruit those guys.
2. The guy who gets there after 3-4 years of hard work but didn't come in heralded. Painter absolutely recruits these guys. Edey. Pretty much every NBA guy Painter has had save a couple.
3. The diamonds in the rough that aren't on the NBA radar but is capable and Painter sees it. Painter definitely recruits these guys. Ivey is a prime example.
He can't sell 1 because he doesn't recruit 1. He absolutely can sell 2 and 3. He can tell a guy who is an Edey or an Ivey or Biggie, or others that he can develop them into an NBA player.
HS players can collect NIL money. Thankfully it is not widespread......yet.
And he did tell Biggie he would start, at the 4 next to Hammons.
If you are going to be disingenuous, why do you even respond?
I know it won't happen because Painter is set in his ways, but does he need to change his recruiting philosophy in the NIL world?
He probably got lucky that Edey developed into what he did. But, he also accomplished the unthinkable of losing to a 16 seed but following it up with a FF.
Unfortunately, with an Edey, we still see the problems Purdue has had in the past: inability to contain the dribble. Guys can't get their own shot. Lack of athletes at the G position.
No Matt doesn't lie to recruits like Woody and tell them , he can get them to the league and they are surefire #1's.
You mean he’d be guaranteed the chance to compete for a starting spot.
CMP preaches a Meritocracy— if you’re proven to be good enough, absolutely you’ll start.
Mostly agree but I think Ivey fits into 2 more than 3. He was a top 100 kid who had athleticism coming in but needed to refine his game.
I think recruiting with NIL paydays change the landscape entirely. Top 50 high school kids - decent payday in college with ambitions to be in the NBA quickly and not screw up their draft status.
50-150 NIL and development is more important. They want money and ability to get their game refined for the league. This tends to be where Painter excels in his recruiting.
150 & up: mostly around development and future NIL opportunities and/or chance to switch schools for paydays down the road.
Also a late bloomer. Was listed at 6’-2” his JR year of high school when he was being recruited.
This is a great post. Not sure why you guys are slamming @Bank Shot Podcast; I would guess that he would generally agree with this post.
Painter can absolutely, 100% sell a 50-300 ranked recruit with a chip on his shoulder that Purdue development can turn them into a drafted player with a pro career somewhere. Especially for bigs, though it's interesting that the two Painter-era players who (other than maybe Landry) have had the most NBA success are guards, Moore and Ivey.
Painter's pitch is not "I'll make a five star a lotto pick," or even "I will make you an NBA player." It's "I take underrated players and turn them into players that have an extended pro career, either in the NBA or overseas."
I think all of this has been said by four different people in different ways...and probably agreed by many that didn't respond
I don't even know why people are upset. I literally said Painters selling points are development and winning conference championships.
This is why people here don't engage with you. Anyone can take five-star recruits and put them in the NBA. Purdue typically doesn't recruit one-and-done players and I don't expect that to change. You're right that Duke, UK, KU, etc. have much better stories for those players than Purdue.
This is why Purdue typically does well with recruits and families who deeply understand basketball. They understand the difference between taking NBA-ready recruits and showcasing them in a way that helps their draft status versus a commitment to development, helping players reach their full potential. The former is not the Purdue model, the latter gives the type of lower-ranked recruits that Purdue typically goes after a shot at getting ready to play pro ball.
Here are the names he referenced later in the post. I guessed on a few because honestly couldn't find all these kids.
That area of Indiana is hard to recruit because academics are usually a hiccup plus the $$ handshakes to get a seat at the table to even talk to a kid.
Johnell Davis - 0% chance he would have gotten into Purdue. FAU was a perfect place for him to grow and develop and now that he is at Arkansas - he has seen his scoring fall by half.
Okechukwu Okeke - he went to 2 JUCOs before landing at FIU
Ashton Williamson - freshman at FIU....hard to find recruiting profile
Harold Woods - Junior and can't find a recruiting profile
Jalen Washington - UNC and he isn't off to a great season this year, he is one I wish we landed
Quimari Petterson - at East Tennessee State after 1 year at Indiana State
Mason Nicholson - at Jacksonville State,
Thanks for the leg work (as always) Beef. None of those guys would have made much of an impact this year. Maybe Davis but he’s lazy ag times on defense and a black hole. Not sure how hard it is to pick up painters system in less than a year.
Anyways, while looking at Davis, came across this list :
So far, there have been some bad misses. Maybe that’ll change with conf play. But oof.
But those 5 star guys are the ones getting sold the NBA to them. I get trying to argue about Edey and Ivey but almost every program has dudes who weren't 5 stars who developed into NBA players. So that specifically isn't a selling point. You look at a guy like Victor Oladipo or OG at Indiana. You look at Paul George at Fresno State. Russell Westbrook at UCLA and the lost goes on. My point is that Purdues selling points are development and winning. I can guarantee that Painter doesn't sell the NBA because he understands that's a promise he can't make for the group recruits he is after. So he could promise Smith a starting spot or a shot at it. He could promise Smith a shot at a conference title. Do you think he was selling going to the NBA to a high school Braden Smith? No. Caleb Swanigan? Maybe. If you're getting Top 20 recruits? You're probably talking about the NBA after 1 or 2 years. It isn't the controversial take you're wanting it to be. Duke and Kentucky can sell the NBA. They are the exception to the rule. Matt Painter isn't selling "I will get you into the NBA" to his recruits. The closest he's going to get is "I will develop you, and it's up to you how far you can take it."
The problem with your argument is top 20 one or two and doners don't have to be sold a coach is getting them to the NBA. They already believe they are going to the NBA. They are already showing up on future draft boards.
Five stars being told they can get to the NBA is like telling me I can get a Whopper at Burger King.
Those guys still have to be sold it. But it's sold differently. "How high can you get me drafted." Duke has become a factory and UK was under Cal. Cal himself just built a brand on himself getting dudes to the NBA. Duke already had an NBA brand but K really focused on more one and dones late in his career and it even won him his last title in 2015. But coaches aren't out promising and selling the NBA to kids. You're not seeking kids outside the Top 30-40 that. You're promising development (which could lead to that if they work hard enough). You're selling a system. Selling a campus. At Purdue, you're selling development, winning, system, campus, academics.
I don't disagree about needing some dudes. This team is pretty soft. Well, I don't know if soft is the right word, maybe lacking the athleticism needed?
I don't buy into the academics argument. Are there some guys who would struggle academically? Sure. But they would struggle whether they were at Purdue, Duke, or (insert the school) here. It's not specific to Purdue. Plus, with the academic resources designed to keep athletes eligible, we don't see many guys losing eligibility due to grades. Periodically, but rarely.
If a talented basketball player who's maybe not the greatest student wants to come to Purdue, I think they find a way to make it work academically, unless the kid simply can't read or write at all.
I think the idea that you can't sell the NBA at Purdue is belied by the fact that there are literally multiple recent examples.
If there's an Ivey type player, and yes Painter has recruited those, you can say Ivey got there so can you. Biggie type? Edey? Yep.
You acknowledge there are different ways of selling it then limit it for Purdue to well they aren't sure fire so it can't be a selling point.
There's a 7 footer out there with NBA potential who looks at Edey and is attracted to Purdue. There's a wing who sees Ivey and thinks I can be him but the big boys don't see it but Painter does.
I want all my recruits believing they have a shot at the NBA. Now, is it a realistic shot? Maybe, probably not though, because only a small % of players make it. But, the coach has to instill that belief in them that if they put in the work, they'll at least get a shot.
Not if they try to go to Michigan. Michigan denied TSJ, Caleb Love and Johnell Davis to name a few….oh and Nojel
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