16-12 (8-7) Syracuse is really, really good! ... now

[BoilerBonz]

... that they just beat the #10 ranked Duke Blue Devils. The same Duke that was ranked #18, behind #16 Purdue, two weeks ago, before jumping to #12 last week, while Purdue remained at #16, and then jumped to #10 this week. The talk will now begin about how yet another ACC team deserves a NCAA tourney bid, since obviously Syracuse is really good -- because Duke can't be anything less than great (by definition) -- even though The Orange lost to pitiful ACC teams like BC and Pitt, lost to St. John by 30, and even lost to a lowly B1G team, Wisconsin by 17.

But don't complain about it, or the tough guys on here will tell you to just suck it up, play a tougher schedule, and win more games! Just like Duke!

... or maybe not?

 

[Frankie611]

Did you see the post game interview with that syrexcuse player?? Haha! So modest! That was a badass shot though.

 

[nagemj02]

What is Syracuse's primary halfcourt defense? It must be a crappy one since they beat a team with 9 McD's AA's on it.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

I don't see how a college baketball fan can mock a Duke team. You won't come march this year

 

[BoilerAndy]

What is Syracuse's primary halfcourt defense? It must be a crappy one since they beat a team with 9 McD's AA's on it.

Gosh, if they play a zone, they must win the NC every year! Unless, of course, they play a team that plays a BETTER zone!

 

[BoilerStation]

The more losses Duke takes the better it is for us. I'm all for it even if it gets a team like Syracuse I'm never impressed with getting into the tourney.

 

[goldclub]

Purdue isn't a 3 seed because our RPI is too low. But Syracuse is in with an RPI in mid 80's. Can't be ACC bias.

 

[BoilerStation]

Purdue isn't a 3 seed because our RPI is too low. But Syracuse is in with an RPI in mid 80's. Can't be ACC bias.

Purdue isn't a 3 seed yet because we haven't earned it. Keep the wins coming and win the BT outright and/or the BTT and then we do.

 

[TC4THREE]

Self fulfilling prophecy. If you label a conference great then every win is quality and no loss is bad. Opposite is true of the Big Ten this season.

 

[BoilerBonz]

Purdue isn't a 3 seed yet because we haven't earned it. Keep the wins coming and win the BT outright and/or the BTT and then we do.

But Duke and Florida have earned it?

 

[3AmigosBigDogBabyBoilersBiggie]

But Duke and Florida have earned it?

I wouldn't say Florida has, but Duke has a very impressive resume. I have a long-standing hatred for Duke and the nauseating love they get from ESPN and Dickie V. I couldn't hardly watch basketball during Christian Laettner's last year. They practically blew him for an entire season. But if you compare Duke to Purdue this year they're very close. Duke's advantage is in top 50 RPI games. They're 9-4 to our 6-3. We were ahead of them until they beat UNC. That win stands out and puts them above us. Right now they're a 3 seed and we're not. Now Florida is bullshit. They won a home game over Kentucky and that's about it. The only reason they might look slightly better than us is they don't have a "bad loss".

 

[Purdue0034]

Not so fast. I hate Florida with a passion and can't stand all this love they are getting from the committee! I would say losing at home to Vanderbilt is a "bad loss"! I sure hope Kentucky crushes them this weekend!

 

[Do Dah Day]

What is Syracuse's primary halfcourt defense? It must be a crappy one since they beat a team with 9 McD's AA's on it.

They recruit specifically for that defense and practice it for hours every day ... just as we do for our defense. I never saw them experiment with a man2man, or even a 1-2-2 or 1-3-1 ... just played the same D the whole game .. like we do.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

They recruit specifically for that defense and practice it for hours every day ... just as we do for out defense. I never saw them experiment with a man2man, or even a 1-2-2 or 1-3-1 ... just played the same D the whole game .. like we do.

And they need particularly versatile players to be really effective with it. Boeheim knows the type of athletes he needs for it after 40 years or so. IMO, when he doesn't have enough length and quickness, the D suffers. But, when he has that, and enough good, consistent shooters.....Syracuse can be really good. No doubt, they've slipped a little the last few years, but it seems like a couple of times a decade, they make a tournament run like last year.

 

[Do Dah Day]

And they need particularly versatile players to be really effective with it. Boeheim knows the type of athletes he needs for it after 40 years or so. IMO, when he doesn't have enough length and quickness, the D suffers. But, when he has that, and enough good, consistent shooters.....Syracuse can be really good. No doubt, they've slipped a little the last few years, but it seems like a couple of times a decade, they make a tournament run like last year.

It also requires depth and stamina. It takes a lot out of you to have to run from one side of your zone to the other when an opponent leaves it on one side and another opponent enters it on the other side. One rule of an offense against a zone is to swing it from side to side at least twice to get them tired and out of position.

 

[BoilerBonz]

I wouldn't say Florida has, but Duke has a very impressive resume. I have a long-standing hatred for Duke and the nauseating love they get from ESPN and Dickie V. I couldn't hardly watch basketball during Christian Laettner's last year. They practically blew him for an entire season. But if you compare Duke to Purdue this year they're very close. Duke's advantage is in top 50 RPI games. They're 9-4 to our 6-3. We were ahead of them until they beat UNC. That win stands out and puts them above us. Right now they're a 3 seed and we're not. Now Florida is bullshit. They won a home game over Kentucky and that's about it. The only reason they might look slightly better than us is they don't have a "bad loss".

Yes, Duke's loss last night at Syracuse was "very impressive." But, after all, everybody has an off night, but they get a pass because they're Duke. And UNC gets a pass for losing to Duke, because that can't take any luster off UNC -- so it must mean Duke is really good. But if Purdue loses to a red hot Gopher team, it means Purdue sucks!

In probability theory, there is the concept of "priors," which affect how one updates probabilities (or perceptions) for new information. The ACC, especially the "blue bloods," receive extremely positive priors. But with several of the B1G "blue bloods" (i.e., MSU, IU, UM and OSU) all having off years, the rest of the B1G teams are getting negative to neutral priors right now. And Purdue's perception is not immune from this, even though arguably it shouldn't be, if we were viewed as a "blue blood," meaning our prior would be less influenced by the B1G's current generally negative prior. But clearly, we're not viewed as being anything close to a "blue blood." Perceptions are only objective if priors are objective and updated rationally. And priors that reflect who won the NCAA tourney a decade, or more, ago aren't objective priors -- so even rational updates don't necessarily result in objective probabilities (perceptions).

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

i will say coach k has lost the mojo. that syracuse team has no business being in the same building as duke. coach k having 6 losses with that talent is horrendous coaching. i guess everyone gets too old at some point.

 

[TC4THREE]

i will say coach k has lost the mojo. that syracuse team has no business being in the same building as duke. coach k having 6 losses with that talent is horrendous coaching. i guess everyone gets too old at some point.

FIRE COACH K!!!

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

FIRE COACH K!!!

you are "that guy"

 

[TC4THREE]

you are "that guy"

maybe you are "that guy"?

 

[proudopete]

Yes, Duke's loss last night at Syracuse was "very impressive." But, after all, everybody has an off night, but they get a pass because they're Duke. And UNC gets a pass for losing to Duke, because that can't take any luster off UNC -- so it must mean Duke is really good. But if Purdue loses to a red hot Gopher team, it means Purdue sucks!

In probability theory, there is the concept of "priors," which affect how one updates probabilities (or perceptions) for new information. The ACC, especially the "blue bloods," receive extremely positive priors. But with several of the B1G "blue bloods" (i.e., MSU, IU, UM and OSU) all having off years, the rest of the B1G teams are getting negative to neutral priors right now. And Purdue's perception is not immune from this, even though arguably it shouldn't be, if we were viewed as a "blue blood," meaning our prior would be less influenced by the B1G's current generally negative prior. But clearly, we're not viewed as being anything close to a "blue blood." Perceptions are only objective if priors are objective and updated rationally. And priors that reflect who won the NCAA tourney a decade, or more, ago aren't objective priors -- so even rational updates don't necessarily result in objective probabilities (perceptions).

Bayes would be proud. Nice work.

 

[nagemj02]

They recruit specifically for that defense and practice it for hours every day ... just as we do for our defense. I never saw them experiment with a man2man, or even a 1-2-2 or 1-3-1 ... just played the same D the whole game .. like we do.

I think Syracuse might still mix in man D with their 2-3 from time-to-time. I know they played man D (as a backup to their 2-3) with more regularity earlier in Boeheim's tenure. Here's one example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEu2yXBCago (Syracuse vs. Florida: 1987 East Region Sweet 16 matchup)

 

[Dakota Girl]

What is Syracuse's primary halfcourt defense? It must be a crappy one since they beat a team with 9 McD's AA's on it.

Actually it's a very good half court defense...because they play it all the time and learn to do it well. A concept you fail to grasp.

 

[Dakota Girl]

They recruit specifically for that defense and practice it for hours every day ... just as we do for our defense. I never saw them experiment with a man2man, or even a 1-2-2 or 1-3-1 ... just played the same D the whole game .. like we do.

Ron White was right about what you can't fix...

 

[njm8845]

Yes, Duke's loss last night at Syracuse was "very impressive." But, after all, everybody has an off night, but they get a pass because they're Duke. And UNC gets a pass for losing to Duke, because that can't take any luster off UNC -- so it must mean Duke is really good. But if Purdue loses to a red hot Gopher team, it means Purdue sucks!

In probability theory, there is the concept of "priors," which affect how one updates probabilities (or perceptions) for new information. The ACC, especially the "blue bloods," receive extremely positive priors. But with several of the B1G "blue bloods" (i.e., MSU, IU, UM and OSU) all having off years, the rest of the B1G teams are getting negative to neutral priors right now. And Purdue's perception is not immune from this, even though arguably it shouldn't be, if we were viewed as a "blue blood," meaning our prior would be less influenced by the B1G's current generally negative prior. But clearly, we're not viewed as being anything close to a "blue blood." Perceptions are only objective if priors are objective and updated rationally. And priors that reflect who won the NCAA tourney a decade, or more, ago aren't objective priors -- so even rational updates don't necessarily result in objective probabilities (perceptions).

Good post. I feel like emphasizing that priors have a large impact on the probability of an event. There's even a related topic called base rate neglect, in which people naturally underestimate the impact of priors.

 

[njm8845]

Self fulfilling prophecy. If you label a conference great then every win is quality and no loss is bad. Opposite is true of the Big Ten this season.

Exactly. This was my beef with sec football for a long time. If all the teams in a conference are ranked, then there's obviously going to be a lot of top 25 wins and "pretty losses". Then, those things are declared as the major metrics for determining how good a conference is. Everything comes back to media perception.

 

[Boilermaker]

Cheer for all our B1G breatheren in the tourney, if you can stomach doing so should MSU get in. Other than MSU, I'll be rooting for them all (IU would be on the naughty list with MSU if they were dancing).