I'm conflicted on this. I love how hard Grady tries, and how smart he plays. At the same time, I realize that a more talented player that's not trying as hard, or playing as smart, could really outperform him on the court.
This years 8 man rotation.
- Thread starter ghbucs
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I will tell you this....as a guy who coached for a lot of years, Grady is the type of player I want on my team. He makes everyone around him, the entire team better.
As a guy who has watched a lot of basketball, talent outweighs hustle most of the time. A good example would be the Pacers vs the Cavs. Indy's players had way more heart and tried a LOT harder than the Cavs, but in the end talent won.
I think you said you are from New Castle, right? I am as well, so I can see how you value the Grady type players. That's all we had in NC.
I'm not against Grady. And I'll agree Grady earned his playing time. however, it should be clear that Painter didn't recruit Ewing and give him a scholarship just because he had a scholarship to give. Painter rarely recruits juco players unless he believes they will be significant contributors. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. I also believe if Taylor was healthy, he would have received a lot more minutes.
I'm not sure what really happened to Taylor and Ewing last year. Many people here had high hopes for both players. Ewing was supposedly one of the best PFs on the juco circuit. Taylor had a lot of talent, but also a lot of injuries.
I firmly believe if either player had lived up to Painter's expectations, they would have played, and Grady would have seen the same minutes Luce received. I'm happy for Grady, but I really don't see an increased future role for him.
I'm not sure what really happened to Taylor and Ewing last year. Many people here had high hopes for both players. Ewing was supposedly one of the best PFs on the juco circuit. Taylor had a lot of talent, but also a lot of injuries.
I firmly believe if either player had lived up to Painter's expectations, they would have played, and Grady would have seen the same minutes Luce received. I'm happy for Grady, but I really don't see an increased future role for him.
Not a good example, the pacers have good talent obviously, not to mention that many very talented players aren't going to give the cavs the boost that Lebron did. On the other hand I wouldn't mind seeing lebron suit up in the black and old gold.
How is that not a good example? Trying hard, playing smart, playing fundamental basketball can only get your so far in basketball. We have more talented players than Grady this season (and last season). As much as I like Grady's hustle, he is not talented enough to be a rotation player at the Big Ten level if you want to win.
I have to go with Iron here, and agree with his hypothetical argument. I like Grady's hustle and heart, but a talented player off the bench that had strong scoring potential would have been a better situation.
However, we did not have one. You have to play the game with the kids you have, and Grady was our best option. Neither Taylor nor Ewing panned out and were ready for the challenge.
However, we did not have one. You have to play the game with the kids you have, and Grady was our best option. Neither Taylor nor Ewing panned out and were ready for the challenge.
Carsen,Eastern, Evan, Wheeler and Haarms
I know Cline is likely to start, but I'd sure love to see him come off the bench as he could spell either Carsen or Eastern with little drop-off. I'm a firm believer in having a strong bench rather than a strong starting 5 with no bench. Look at Villinova last year. Their 6th man was a first round NBA pick.
Here's the thing - talent certainly outweighs hustle. But the talent has to come through. Most of our team hasn't proven it. Of course if there is a player that is more talented - and produces at a higher level - than Grady, they will play more.
I said that I think it's silly that people are writing off Grady playing in the first half of the season. I didn't say in February and March. But until our young players aren't making lots of young player mistakes, Grady's gonna play.
Maybe I wasn't clear in my post. I agree that Grady had to play last year. He was the best available option.
My point was that we should have never been in a position where he needed to play. The 2015 and 2016 classes created major roster imbalance. That resulted in only 1 junior and 1 sophomore on the team. We were VERY lucky Haarms was able to have the impact that he did.
We will see the affects of the roster imbalance again this year due to lack of experience.
I think you are right. We did not have as deep a team as we had first thought. I can't figure out what happened to Taylor. He showed so much promise, but never was able to put together another game like he did at Rutgers. Ewing was flying under false colors and was never as good as he was touted to be.
I believe the typical starting lineup will be:
Carsen
Nojel
Cline
Boudreaux
Haarms
I don't really want to see Cline starting regularly. I think he is more of a 3-point shooting spark off the bench. But from a balance standpoint, maybe it makes more sense for him to start over Wheeler and then have Sasha to spell Cline instead of them both being 2nd team.
Cline's defense has been ok in spots. I'd imagine that Painter tries to keep him matched up with shooters like himself, which every team seems to have.
Eifert is a great team player. But a regular starter? Not for a team that has aspirations of winning a conference title. Eifert played somewhat major minutes based on losing Ewing and never really having Taylor last year.
I don't expect any of the freshmen to redshirt unless they were a complete liability. There's a difference between being in the rotation and being available to play on a moment's notice. You can have your regular rotation be 8 or 9 guys but you have to have 10-11 available for the entire season.
In answers to some other posts in this thread, I'm looking forward to Nojel's improvement in his overall offensive game. I think Evan Boudreaux needs to literally step into Vince's shoes for this team to win 20+ games. I think a lot of us are underscoring how solid those seniors were. I don't want to be a debby-downer but I'm keeping my expectations pretty low this season. As in bubble conversation low.
Carsen
Nojel
Cline
Boudreaux
Haarms
I don't really want to see Cline starting regularly. I think he is more of a 3-point shooting spark off the bench. But from a balance standpoint, maybe it makes more sense for him to start over Wheeler and then have Sasha to spell Cline instead of them both being 2nd team.
Cline's defense has been ok in spots. I'd imagine that Painter tries to keep him matched up with shooters like himself, which every team seems to have.
Eifert is a great team player. But a regular starter? Not for a team that has aspirations of winning a conference title. Eifert played somewhat major minutes based on losing Ewing and never really having Taylor last year.
I don't expect any of the freshmen to redshirt unless they were a complete liability. There's a difference between being in the rotation and being available to play on a moment's notice. You can have your regular rotation be 8 or 9 guys but you have to have 10-11 available for the entire season.
In answers to some other posts in this thread, I'm looking forward to Nojel's improvement in his overall offensive game. I think Evan Boudreaux needs to literally step into Vince's shoes for this team to win 20+ games. I think a lot of us are underscoring how solid those seniors were. I don't want to be a debby-downer but I'm keeping my expectations pretty low this season. As in bubble conversation low.
I don’t many of you understand when you not playing you not producing period. If Taylor has a good season at Hofstra it won’t be bcuz he wasn’t good he didn’t play he was healthy after he came back in October painter didn’t want to touch the rotation. Players don’t suddenly forget how to play basketball if you not playing you can’t produce. Playing time cures all of that trust me. When you on the court 25+ min you can get into a groove a flow of the game you get to no your teammates more they get to no you 4yeara them seniors played with each other why they looked so good together on the court. Once Cline Nojel Haarms Carsten Evan whoever is solidly in the rotation playing together each game consistently you all will see how good this group gonna fit together. When you don’t play as much you get winded you can’t get going and just as you about to get it going you come out the game trust me it plays on the mind I no I watched my son go Through it. Watch how different all 3 of these players gonna look so different not bcuz they suddenly did something different they all no how to play basketball and all been working on their game but 25+ min a game changes the mindset and confidence knowing your time has come why Morgan didn’t suddenly just get better his minutes when up so did his production and confidence.
I get what you're saying, but I also hesitate to really complain about that because like I said, how many other teams have starter-replacement players sitting on the bench? Very few teams go more than 7-8 deep even with 13 scholarships.
Then add in the fact that we had four four year starters - you aren't going to have players who are good enough to come in and make it not "known" you're missing one of your key players on both offense and defense.
In addition, it's also hard to really pin it based on the timing. If Haas' injury occurred in January when the team had time to make adjustments, that's a whole different ballgame. Even with Haas hurt, we had 3 four year starters plus Carsen Edwards.
It's easy to look back and play the "what if" game, but just like with the Baby Boilers - when you have such a dominant class that stays for four years - it's not easy filling in behind them. Good players want instant playing time.
I also see where you are coming from, and I agree playing the "what if" game is kind of pointless at this point. However, I'm off today...
. Most teams don't have starter replacements on their bench. However, most teams never have to play walk-ons. IMO, we should have had scholarship players that were capable of filling in the lost Haas minutes.
As far as there being no way to make it "not known" Haas went down, I think had we landed JJJ we wouldn't have slowed down in the least with the Haas injury. These are just my opinions and are irrelevant like you said, because it's playing the "what if" game.
1,000% agree. This is the point I was trying to get across earlier in the thread.
There is no way Sasha plays ahead of hunter. If he does, we are in trouble .
Or people on here underestimated Sasha because, you know, they are basing things solely off of their perception. A perception that is coming from a limited view from TV or youtube videos.
How about we let things pan out and the season start before we throw players under a bus and start assuming they are bad like you do in your post?
New Castle won and has won, a lot of games with teams full of Grady's. I just value a kid who busts his ass and improves every year over the stud who's only in it for himself.
Was biggie only in it for himself? Typical ignorant statement that just because a kid is good at basketball he must be selfish. And just because you're a "grady" level player doesn't make you unselfish. Ronnie Johnson sucked but during his time at purdue was very selfish.
classic. Don't confuse people with the obvious facts they should know. twin degrees was on a roll, or was it a donut?
No, I live/work in Carmel. I'm actually heading to NC as we speak for a wedding tomorrow, though.
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