YesHave you ever heard of a 17 year old kid being convicted of a crime for unsuccessfully attempting to remove someone's clothing?
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
YesHave you ever heard of a 17 year old kid being convicted of a crime for unsuccessfully attempting to remove someone's clothing?
Please provide the name of a 17 year old kid who was convicted of a crime for doing nothing more than unsuccessfully attempting to remove clothing of another teenager at a drunken high school party.So how long have you practiced criminal law?
You've practiced criminal law for 45 years and you can't cite one case in which a high school kid was convicted of what Kavanaugh is alleged to have done? Interesting.1. That wasn't your scenario to begin.
2. In most circumstances such as you now describe involving 17 and 15 y/o they are treated in the juvenile system.
3. I would never refer a specific name in this type of setting.
Believe what you want. That is your prerogative. I have practiced criminal law for nearly 45 years and disagree with your assertion.
You are free to continue to live with your antiquated views of propriety but the hypocrisy of "law and order" advocates who seem to justify this type of thinking appals me. I am not commenting one way or the other on Kavanaugh by this reply. That situation will go as it goes. Rather, my comments have to do with the concept that somehow this entire "grab em by" the whatever view is acceptable in a civilized society. How pathetic.
Just be honest. Everyone knows no one has ever been convicted of crime for doing what Ford alleges happened in her letter. He didn't strike her, he didn't threaten her, he unsuccessfully attempted to remove some of her clothing during a drunken high school party. The kid would've never been arrested and certainly no prosecutor would've brought charges.Do you read English?
Just be honest. Everyone knows no one has ever been convicted of crime for doing what Ford alleges happened in her letter. He didn't strike her, he didn't threaten her, he unsuccessfully attempted to remove some of her clothing during a drunken high school party. The kid would've never been arrested and certainly no prosecutor would've brought charges.
Unless you've always asked your partner if it was OK to remove his clothing then you've done exactly what she alleges Kavanaugh did.
Help me out here Beth - what is she alleging he did that is worse than anyone who lost their job in the me too movement?I think the times have changed drastically and behavior that might have passed without incident would not be accepted today. Also, a lot of the people who have lost jobs in the recent "me too" movement did not do anything as serious as is alleged in this case where the alleged victim feared for her life. However, the main point that I am trying to make is the enormous change that has occurred in our society in the last decade with regard to acceptable male/female behavior.
Ummmm….Yes. That's why they are called "Witnesses". The Plaintiff has named somebody as a witness. A witness is a person that can add details to a story to provide unbiased corroboration to a narrative.Get them on the stand and ask them what? Were you at this unknown house at an unknown day/month/year? You don't put people "on the stand" because someone comes out of the woodwork 35 years later and claims some kid tried to pull her bathing suit off. For all we know this lady is seriously mental...and you think the proper thing to do is start throwing people "on the stand"? Really?
For the record - I don't believe this statement so I stopped reading your post. Unless you only went to a couple of parties in high school.It's been 30 years since high school for me. I can tell you every party I went to...
In this day and age, if what she says is true, many men have been taken down by MeToo for what I would deem as a "Less serious" action.Help me out here Beth - what is she alleging he did that is worse than anyone who lost their job in the me too movement?
Correct if I'm wrong but aren't all of those men in positions of power and thus that is the real issue?In this day and age, if what she says is true, many men have been taken down by MeToo for what I would deem as a "Less serious" action.
John Copley Stage director at the Metropolitan Opera - Fired for making a sexually charged remark.
Wayne Pacelle Chief executive of the Humane Society - Resigned after sexually harassing three women and forced kissing.
Patrick Meehan U.S. representative for Pennsylvania - Removed from House Ethics Committee and will not seek reelection for sexual harassment of a former aide.
James Rosen Washington correspondent at Fox News - Resigned after sexual harassment of three women.
Trent Franks U.S. representative for Arizona - Resigned after asking two women to be surrogates to bear his child.
Ruben Kihuen U.S. representative for Nevada - Will not seek reelection for unwanted sexual propositions.
Stephen Bittel Florida Democratic Party chairman - Resigned after sexually inappropriate comments and behavior.
I found that with 10 minutes of research, and there are plenty more. Regardless of what anyone's personal beliefs are as to where the line should be on appropriate / inappropriate, the current Metoo movement is not something to flippantly write off.
Believe what you want.For the record - I don't believe this statement so I stopped reading your post. Unless you only went to a couple of parties in high school.
Please provide the name of a 17 year old kid who was convicted of a crime for doing nothing more than unsuccessfully attempting to remove clothing of another teenager at a drunken high school party.
It would never happen. Raise your girls right and they would never be in a house with no adults getting drunk with 4 boys...at age 15! smdh.you have cited your daughter in previous examples/stories.
IF this were your daughter in this particular scenario, im curious what your reaction/advise would be to her...
Correct if I'm wrong but aren't all of those men in positions of power and thus that is the real issue?
Whoever it was that supposedly tried to take Ford's bathing suit off was 17.
Again, stopped reading after this.….and that is relevant how?
Help me out here Beth - what is she alleging he did that is worse than anyone who lost their job in the me too movement?
Remember, just because someone thinks their life is in danger doesn't mean that it actually was and that the other person has committed a crime. Her letter claims he unsuccessfully attempted to remove her clothes during a drunken teenage party. He wasn't in a position of power over her (like Weinstein was over the actresses he was "interviewing" for jobs.) There was no sex. Neither had their clothes off.
Beth - you always seem to play things close to the vest so I'm not sure where you stand on this issue. I did find it interesting that I spoke with my mother last night and she was really fired up about it. Thinks this all about nothing. She said she spoke to a couple of her sisters and they agreed.I think the times have changed drastically and behavior that might have passed without incident would not be accepted today. Also, a lot of the people who have lost jobs in the recent "me too" movement did not do anything as serious as is alleged in this case where the alleged victim feared for her life. However, the main point that I am trying to make is the enormous change that has occurred in our society in the last decade with regard to acceptable male/female behavior.
It would never happen. Raise your girls right and they would never be in a house with no adults getting drunk with 4 boys...at age 15! smdh.
ideally no.It would never happen. Raise your girls right and they would never be in a house with no adults getting drunk with 4 boys...at age 15! smdh.
Only liberals who surround themselves with like-minded people thought he had no chance.remember that same logic - when trump winning 'would never happen'
The allegations put forward are, per NYT, thisJust be honest. Everyone knows no one has ever been convicted of crime for doing what Ford alleges happened in her letter. He didn't strike her, he didn't threaten her, he unsuccessfully attempted to remove some of her clothing during a drunken high school party. The kid would've never been arrested and certainly no prosecutor would've brought charges.
Unless you've always asked your partner if it was OK to remove his clothing then you've done exactly what she alleges Kavanaugh did.
I understand that you feel that you may have insight as to the prosecutorial likelihood in such a setting.Dr. Blasey claimed that Mr. Kavanaugh pushed her into a bedroom as she headed upstairs to a bathroom. He and someone she described as a “very drunken” friend — identified in later news reports as Mr. Judge — locked the door and played loud music, she wrote. Mr. Kavanaugh then pushed her on a bed, began grinding his body against hers and tried to undress her, she said. To stifle her screams, she asserted, he covered her mouth with his hand.
Mr. Judge, Dr. Blasey alleged, told his friend to alternately “go for it” and “stop.”
When Mr. Judge jumped on the bed, causing the three teenagers to tumble onto the floor, Dr. Blasey said she ran from the room, locked herself in the bathroom and escaped after hearing the two inebriated boys stumbling down the stairs.
Sorry, but I had as many, and maybe a bit more of right of center Republican friends have the opinion than my liberal friends.Only liberals who surround themselves with like-minded people thought he had no chance.
Only because they were hearing about the obviously flawed polls.Sorry, but I had as many, and maybe a bit more of right of center Republican friends have the opinion than my liberal friends.
Lol. So now you are blaming her parents.It would never happen. Raise your girls right and they would never be in a house with no adults getting drunk with 4 boys...at age 15! smdh.
You do realize this is the equivalent of someone saying "NAH NAH NAH NAH" loudly while sticking their fingers in their ears.Again, stopped reading after this.
I have two daughters and yes I'm blessed but my wife and I deserves some credit for the people they are. Having children who make good decisions usually doesn't happen by accident.Consider yourself blessed if your daughter does everything the way you want her to.
Nope - I just know when there's no point to continue reading. If you don't understand the difference in all of your examples and two drunk teenagers then I can't help you.You do realize this is the equivalent of someone saying "NAH NAH NAH NAH" loudly while sticking their fingers in their ears.
That's kinda how debates work. Someone presents their argument and then provides proof that supports their claim. The opposition then either presents proof that supports that side or provides information that refutes the original party's information.
What we've gotten from you is essentially "You're a liar, I don't believe you." and "I didn't listen to what you just said."
That's not a very compelling argument.
I've read the letter and it says nothing about anyone grinding their body against hers. Why would the NYT feel the need to embellish her story?The allegations put forward are, per NYT, this
I understand that you feel that you may have insight as to the prosecutorial likelihood in such a setting.
I disagree.
So, this morning while in court, I provided the above scenario separately to 5 felony prosecutors with between 15 and 40 years experience each, and explained the general nature of this thread.
Each indicated that if confronted with a witness willing to testify to the above (and not dealing with the issues of the Kavanaugh case as to the staleness and recollection issues of it, but only based upon on a fairly recent complaint as set out above by a willing witness) that he/she would certainly initiate a prosecution.
So, I guess we will just have to disagree based upon our relative informational bases.
Beth - you always seem to play things close to the vest so I'm not sure where you stand on this issue. I did find it interesting that I spoke with my mother last night and she was really fired up about it. Thinks this all about nothing. She said she spoke to a couple of her sisters and they agreed.
The partying and alcohol/drug use is not limited to prep schools. Its at every school. As my daughters say when describing some of their classmates, "Oh, they're in the party crowd." Party = alcohol, drugs, or both. In fact, the party group at the high school my youngest attends just got broken up by the parents because the kids were putting pictures of the parties on their story - which I think refers to snapchat. One of the parents saw the pictures and alerted the other parents. Party over!Hmmm - I do think that women from different generations see this issue in profoundly different ways. I am sometimes surprised at the reaction of young women to things that I see completely differently. I suspect this is also true of men. The rules changed and the culture changed in a short space of time.
As to my personal reaction to what is going on, I just honestly do not know what to believe/think. I try very hard to keep an open mind and evaluate information dispassionately. Every day something new comes out - today it was about the extent of partying and the consumption of alcohol at these prep schools. Who knew? A big surprise to me!
I don't know that its description is limited to her letter. Nonetheless, I don't think that is a make or break issue.I've read the letter and it says nothing about anyone grinding their body against hers. Why would the NYT feel the need to embellish her story?
Just saying that the scenario you presented to your prosecutor friends was not what she has said happened.I don't know that its description is limited to her letter. Nonetheless, I don't think that is a make or break issue.
WhateverJust saying that the scenario you presented to your prosecutor friends was not what she has said happened.
That is still not a compelling argument. That is you still you essentially running away and not engaging the conversation. Please explain to me the difference.Nope - I just know when there's no point to continue reading. If you don't understand the difference in all of your examples and two drunk teenagers then I can't help you.