I am over the CMP era

[mathboy]

Opponents could tell the difference well enough. Why not you?

You know, your comments are pretty "out there"...
...somehow, on the bench are the greatest players we've never heard about. All they need is the chance to get on the floor... if only Painter weren't playing his "favorites"? You really believe this cock & bull story? Really?

Hence the question if you have been watching practices. Obviously you must be to have this startling revelation about these great players who have ridden the pine all this time. If only we had your insight. Just wow!

 

[BoilerAndy]

That's not for me to answer. It's for Bobinski. That's his job.

And when Bobinski says Painter is the right guy for the job?

 

[purduepat1969]

And when Bobinski says Painter is the right guy for the job?

So be it. I don't think he'll have a top program. And he may lose fans like Burke did with the football program.

 

[BoilerAndy]

So be it. I don't think he'll have a top program. And he may lose fans like Burke did with the football program.

Exactly. That is what it took for the football program and that's what it will take for basketball. But it just won't happen if Painter continues to turn out NCAA tourney teams ranked in the Top 25.

And I don't expect it will happen if the football team gets an annual bowl bid. Purdue doesn't have to make the championship playoffs for a Purdue season to be considered a success.

 

[Do Dah Day]

That's not for me to answer. It's for Bobinski. That's his job.

As is it is his job to choose whether to replace or not.

I was a "manager" once. Until I found that I made a lot more being on the front lines. But, I digress. I had very few rules as I wanted to be the manager that I had wanted to have when I was managed. But one of the few I did have was "Don't come to me with a problem unless you have a good solution to the problem."

 

[BoilerAndy]

As is it is his job to choose whether to replace or not.

I was a "manager" once. Until I found that I made a lot more being on the front lines. But, I digress. I had very few rules as I wanted to be the manager that I had wanted to have when I was managed. But one of the few I did have was "Don't come to me with a problem unless you have a good solution to the problem."

That must be a common theme in high performing companies. I was taught something similar, with the following addition:

"Just filing a complaint without proposing a solution is whining. Take the energy put into whining and use it to come up with a solution."

 

[BoilerBulldog]

So be it. I don't think he'll have a top program. And he may lose fans like Burke did with the football program.

Do you agree we are consistently a top 15 program? I do. There are 330 D1 programs. That puts us in the top 5%. I think that’s “top”. Maybe you disagree. In football that would a top 5-6 team every year.

 

[purduepat1969]

As is it is his job to choose whether to replace or not.

I was a "manager" once. Until I found that I made a lot more being on the front lines. But, I digress. I had very few rules as I wanted to be the manager that I had wanted to have when I was managed. But one of the few I did have was "Don't come to me with a problem unless you have a good solution to the problem."

I am a manager, and I have that rule. But I don't work for you or Bobinski. In this case I'm a consumer/fan which means I can be demanding without having to figure it out for you.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I am a manager, and I have that rule. But I don't work for you or Bobinski. In this case I'm a consumer/fan which means I can be demanding without having to figure it out for you.

Some fans are just whiners. They live vicariously through a group of college kids playing a game with a ball. When the college kids don't win, the fan feels like they cheated him out of feeling like a winner. It's the the kid's fault and it just isn't fair.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I am a manager, and I have that rule. But I don't work for you or Bobinski. In this case I'm a consumer/fan which means I can be demanding without having to figure it out for you.

Sounds like a cop-out to me

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I am a manager, and I have that rule. But I don't work for you or Bobinski. In this case I'm a consumer/fan which means I can be demanding without having to figure it out for you.

Managing a Burger Chef in 1977 doesn’t count.

 

[purduepat1969]

Managing a Burger Chef in 1977 doesn’t count.

Believe what you want and continue to expect the same results.

 

[purduepat1969]

Some fans are just whiners. They live vicariously through a group of college kids playing a game with a ball. When the college kids don't win, the fan feels like they cheated him out of feeling like a winner. It's the the kid's fault and it just isn't fair.

No, it's not the kids fault. It's their leader's fault.

 

[boiler-deuce]

Some fans are just whiners. They live vicariously through a group of college kids playing a game with a ball. When the college kids don't win, the fan feels like they cheated him out of feeling like a winner. It's the the kid's fault and it just isn't fair.

Isn't that actually you as well? Aren't you scared to death that the program will get worse? Isn't that why you want to settle? Aren't you afraid to risk mediocrity for a chance at the short term unknown? You're afraid that kids playing a game with a ball would take a step back. Then, you'd feel cheated since you live vicariously through them. That's why some programs that win, may struggle, but find a way back to the top eventually. They are not afraid to open the green door.

 

[purduepat1969]

Isn't that actually you as well? Aren't you scared to death that the program will get worse? Isn't that why you want to settle? Aren't you afraid to risk mediocrity for a chance at the short term unknown? You're afraid that kids playing a game with a ball would take a step back. Then, you'd feel cheated since you live vicariously through them. That's why some programs that win, may struggle, but find a way back to the top eventually. They are not afraid to open the green door.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Most of these posters who berate a differing opinion on Painter are the ones who spend time overanalyzing the merits of the current team because they have nothing better to do. If you don't support them, you're not a real fan. They pretend that it's just a game played by kids, but the number of posts they have on here would suggest something different. They were probably the same football fans who didn't want Hope fired. If you accept mediocrity and don't take a risk, you'll never be great.

 

[Statey]

Do you agree we are consistently a top 15 program? I do. There are 330 D1 programs. That puts us in the top 5%. I think that’s “top”. Maybe you disagree. In football that would a top 5-6 team every year.

Technically that's accurate, but I really don't agree with the logic in that argument. The reason being the Garder Webbs and Grambling States of the world are in that 330, but they are in no way, shape, or form in Purdue's peer group. Purdue's peer group is the power 5 conferences (and arguably the top half of those) and the 10 to 20-ish (ballparking) well-respected programs outside of P5, like Gonzaga. So the number is a lot closer to 100 than it is 330. So if Purdue is a top 15-20 program, then they're in the top 15-20%, not top 5%. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting top 15-20 is bad, but I do think it's a little disingenuous to pretend that the worst of the worst teams in D1 should be included as part of Purdue's true peer group.

For the record, this is not intended to fuel either side in the pro-Painter or anti-Painter arguments that have overtaken the board, just a take on the particular statement you made. And nothing against you personally as I've seen others make it as well.

 

[BoilerAndy]

No, it's not the kids fault. It's their leader's fault.

Sorry, but if someone feels like a loser because their school's basketball team lost a game, then it's their own fault. The coach, the players, the AD, and the school administration are not responsible for the self esteem of some unhappy fan.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Isn't that actually you as well? Aren't you scared to death that the program will get worse? Isn't that why you want to settle? Aren't you afraid to risk mediocrity for a chance at the short term unknown? You're afraid that kids playing a game with a ball would take a step back. Then, you'd feel cheated since you live vicariously through them. That's why some programs that win, may struggle, but find a way back to the top eventually. They are not afraid to open the green door.

Um, no. On my top 10 list of priorities, Purdue Athletics isn't there. I don't have the knee-jerk emotional response that some of you have every time Purdue loses a game. It's entertainment. It was entertainment when I watched them in their last trip to the Final Four. It will be entertainment when they do it again.

But what does worry me is overly-emotional people who claim to be fans crying that we need a Rick Pitino or a John Calipari so that you can pound your chest after Purdue University's basketball team wins some games. The win-at-all-costs mentality of some people is silly. I notice that some of that has quieted down since the FBI made some arrests. But the same emotional people are still out their looking for fulfillment through a basketball team. And blaming the coach for not giving it to them.

I value my degree from Purdue much more than I care about whether their basketball team won another game or two.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Not just the bench. The starters did not hold up their end. Losing Haas played a big role in that fact.

Whether Eifert would play for MSU or Duke wasn't a question anyone was asking or responding to. The question is, was he a better contributor than those behind him on the bench. Painter can only play the players on his roster.

If you want to ask who would play for MSU or Duke, the only Purdue players that might start are CE and the one Purdue player who was out with an injury.

I think the larger point is, CMP signed 2 forwards (Wheeler and Ewing) a year ago who apparently were unable to contribute this year. That’s not so good.

 

[boiler-deuce]

Um, no. On my top 10 list of priorities, Purdue Athletics isn't there. I don't have the knee-jerk emotional response that some of you have every time Purdue loses a game. It's entertainment. It was entertainment when I watched them in their last trip to the Final Four. It will be entertainment when they do it again.

But what does worry me is overly-emotional people who claim to be fans crying that we need a Rick Pitino or a John Calipari so that you can pound your chest after Purdue University's basketball team wins some games. The win-at-all-costs mentality of some people is silly. I notice that some of that has quieted down since the FBI made some arrests. But the same emotional people are still out their looking for fulfillment through a basketball team. And blaming the coach for not giving it to them.

I value my degree from Purdue much more than I care about whether their basketball team won another game or two.

Talk about emotional. This is an emotional knee-jerk response. You can't find in any of my commentary a call for Painter being fired yet. Because I haven't made the statement. No cries either, just a level headed opinion on the state of the program and future. Nobody is calling for a win at all cost either. These are just strawmen laced with pleas to emotion and misrepresentations because, I guess, you can't put a thought together? If you're going to respond at least be accurate in your depiction of my position. Obviously, you're currently fulfilled with the program, and fear desperately that it is threatened by a less than current level of success.....or you'd be fine with whoever is coaching and at whatever level of success. So, save your hypocritical outbursts. You fear desperately the program will get worse and you'll lose the ability to live vicariously through it. I personally, don't care how bumpy the road gets to success. I'm not scared. I think you are.

 

[Pharmer98]

A part of me would like to see Painter go to a school like Louisville to see how things play out.

I think he has done a really good job at Purdue, and I think it’s ridiculous to suggest that Purdue even consider replacing him. He probably isn’t the transcendent type coach, but I believe there are really only a handful of those guys out there and programs (with a history similar to Purdue’s) that are constantly chasing those type of coaches are mostly finding themselves in a much worse state of affairs than Purdue.

It would interesting to see what he did at a program that maybe historically has been a level above Purdue.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

A fast, up-tempo offense
is the ‘style’ now. Has been for some time. Very effective for deep NCAA runs. And the beauty of it is that you dont have to recruit all 4 and 5 stars to get them (see TT roster) The irony is that Purdue is from a basketball state that still employs the 1970’s weave-motion offense and TT (from a football state) has progressed to the 2018 style that kids these days want to be a part of.

So now it's the State's fault.

 

[Pharmer98]

The other relevant detail wrt Painter depends on your own personal circumstance.

My dad and I are 180 degrees out phase on the Painter question. I’m in my 40’s and support him. Pops is in his late 70’s and would like for Purdue to look elsewhere. He wants to see a national title at Purdue before he dies, and we both tend to agree that Painter won’t get that done without some luck. He would like for Purdue to swing for the fences and try to make a HR hire. I don’t want to watch 40-50 more years of shitty basketball while Purdue hunts down the next Coach K.

Similar with friends my age. Guys that have a more complete life than mine are good turning off the TV during basketball season when the Boilers are struggling and doing something else. They tend think Purdue should find a “better” coach. My buddies that are humping to WL 15 days out of the year tend to feel that the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t, and they don’t want to risk sitting in Mackey watching a “saucy” bunch of Boilermakers.

 

[boiler-deuce]

A part of me would like to see Painter go to a school like Louisville to see how things play out.

I think he has done a really good job at Purdue, and I think it’s ridiculous to suggest that Purdue even consider replacing him. He probably isn’t the transcendent type coach, but I believe there are really only a handful of those guys out there and programs (with a history similar to Purdue’s) that are constantly chasing those type of coaches are mostly finding themselves in a much worse state of affairs than Purdue.

It would interesting to see what he did at a program that maybe historically has been a level above Purdue.

This type of commentary intrigues me. How do these programs get to that level? Magic? Luck? Happenstance? No. Someone took them there at some point. Then the program and fanbase demanded it remain there. If Painter can maintain that level of success there, he should be able to do it here. Don't you think? It's either a priority or it isn't. So, the question is, why does anyone think he can be more successful somewhere else and not here? You don't have to cheat to do it. You don't have to commit less to education. You either decide to be a major player or you don't. We saw Butler do it? Gonzaga? Xavier? We could do both. I think we're seeing it with the Football program. Just a thought.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

This type of commentary intrigues me. How do these programs get to that level? Magic? Luck? Happenstance? No. Someone took them there at some point. Then the program and fanbase demanded it remain there. If Painter can maintain that level of success there, he should be able to do it here. Don't you think? It's either a priority or it isn't. So, the question is, why does anyone think he can be more successful somewhere else and not here? You don't have to cheat to do it. You don't have to commit less to education. You either decide to be a major player or you don't. We saw Butler do it? Gonzaga? Xavier? We could do both. I think we're seeing it with the Football program. Just a thought.

Some guys are “lifters”, and others are “maintainers”. There are far more of the latter than the former, obviously, and for me, CMP falls into the “maintainer” group: he has kept the program on roughly the same level where it was the 25 years before he took over, and there’s nothing wrong with that. We have seen lots of football coaches who weren’t up to that task.

 

[Do Dah Day]

The other relevant detail wrt Painter depends on your own personal circumstance.

My dad and I are 180 degrees out phase on the Painter question. I’m in my 40’s and support him. Pops is in his late 70’s and would like for Purdue to look elsewhere. He wants to see a national title at Purdue before he dies, and we both tend to agree that Painter won’t get that done without some luck. He would like for Purdue to swing for the fences and try to make a HR hire. I don’t want to watch 40-50 more years of shitty basketball while Purdue hunts down the next Coach K.

Similar with friends my age. Guys that have a more complete life than mine are good turning off the TV during basketball season when the Boilers are struggling and doing something else. They tend think Purdue should find a “better” coach. My buddies that are humping to WL 15 days out of the year tend to feel that the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t, and they don’t want to risk sitting in Mackey watching a “saucy” bunch of Boilermakers.

Great post. Well said from both perspectives. I am not as afraid of a worse coach, but afraid of exactly what you said... one who loves the sauce and still doesn't get far in the tourney. Although I also feel strongly that the odds of discovering the next elite coach and hiring him are pretty slim and would probably cost us a couple of years of recruiting. I am excited about the group coming back and coming in and following them in. If we get Okoro/Timme and Gillis/Hall, we will have moved into the "new style" without taking the risks associated with replacing the coach. Only time will tell.

And yes, I am very, very familiar with finding and hiring Brohm and his quick change in recruits. That situation is not even close to this one.

 

[Pharmer98]

This type of commentary intrigues me. How do these programs get to that level? Magic? Luck? Happenstance? No. Someone took them there at some point. Then the program and fanbase demanded it remain there. If Painter can maintain that level of success there, he should be able to do it here. Don't you think? It's either a priority or it isn't. So, the question is, why does anyone think he can be more successful somewhere else and not here? You don't have to cheat to do it. You don't have to commit less to education. You either decide to be a major player or you don't. We saw Butler do it? Gonzaga? Xavier? We could do both. I think we're seeing it with the Football program. Just a thought.

I guess that was my point. I don’t know the answer. Seemingly you are suggesting that if Painter was a good coach then he should be able make Purdue a contender for a national title. No reason a good coach shouldn’t be able to right? Fair enough. I would just be curious to hear the commentary if he went somewhere else and won.

 

[Do Dah Day]

This type of commentary intrigues me. How do these programs get to that level? Magic? Luck? Happenstance? No. Someone took them there at some point. Then the program and fanbase demanded it remain there. If Painter can maintain that level of success there, he should be able to do it here. Don't you think? It's either a priority or it isn't. So, the question is, why does anyone think he can be more successful somewhere else and not here? You don't have to cheat to do it. You don't have to commit less to education. You either decide to be a major player or you don't. We saw Butler do it? Gonzaga? Xavier? We could do both. I think we're seeing it with the Football program. Just a thought.

We are seeing it in Football. The single thing I would say is that Hazel was incredibly awful and his recruits were on a par. Painter and his recruits are not anywhere close to where football was. I also think Brohm was a clear and present great coach in the making and at a school he was ready to move up from PLUS, he was somewhat local and football is more of a national recruiting arena.

I don't see a great coach in-waiting, especially not one at a school in the midwest (for local recruiting). There well could be one, I just don't see who it is. Would Weber come back? Is he the answer?

Are we ready to "try" someone from a lower conference? Like Hazel? Cuonzo is taken, Drew is taken, Beard is taken, Maybe the Loyola guy (who has ONE recruit higher than a 2-star), but is one year enough to define him? If Izzo were to step down ... who would MSU go after? and who would they get? and would they get someone who would not come to Purdue? Is the guy at W-KY any good ... better than ... ??? Worth the risk?

 

[IndySouthsider]

Is Shaka Smart still a hot coaching prospect?

 

[Pharmer98]

I’m really excited about the Brohm coached Boiler football team also, but climbing out of the basement to the mediocre level isn’t in the same stratosphere as taking a program from very good to national title contender. I hope Brohm is great, but I’m not betting on him making the CFP at any point in his career at Purdue. I bet if he makes a New Years Day bowl every couple years fans would be thrilled. That seems like a double standard when comparing basketball and football.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

I’m really excited about the Brohm coached Boiler football team also, but climbing out of the basement to the mediocre level isn’t in the same stratosphere as taking a program from very good to national title contender. I hope Brohm is great, but I’m not betting on him making the CFP at any point in his career at Purdue. I bet if he makes a New Years Day bowl every couple years fans would be thrilled. That seems like a double standard when comparing basketball and football.

I compare BCS Bowls to Final 4. We have been to one in this millennium with 2000 Rose Bowl. New Year's Day bowls are now not the same, I mean Heart of Dallas was on January 1.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Is Shaka Smart still a hot coaching prospect?

good question ... I say "not so much." Hasn't done much recently.

Was that a rhetorical question????

 

[pharoutengineer]

I wonder what Illinois fans think of Bruce Weber these days. While he was there they went 89-65. Had some early success in the tourney and a couple of Big Ten titles but finished up with several flame outs in the tourney. He gets fired. They are now on coach #2 since he left and are looking at a record of 51-71 with only 1 NCAA tourney appearance in the post-Bruce years. Now he’s got an elite 8 under his belt w KState and his top 7 scorers coming back next year. I’m not suggesting Bruce Weber was gonna take Illinois to dizzying heights but it just shows there’s a whole hell of a lot more ways to go down then up from the baseline he set much like Purdue with Painter.

 

[boiler-deuce]

Some guys are “lifters”, and others are “maintainers”. There are far more of the latter than the former, obviously, and for me, CMP falls into the “maintainer” group: he has kept the program on roughly the same level where it was the 25 years before he took over, and there’s nothing wrong with that. We have seen lots of football coaches who weren’t up to that task.

This is very true on all points. However, I am not afraid of aspiring for more. I'm willing to roll the dice for the bigger prize.

I guess that was my point. I don’t know the answer. Seemingly you are suggesting that if Painter was a good coach then he should be able make Purdue a contender for a national title. No reason a good coach shouldn’t be able to right? Fair enough. I would just be curious to hear the commentary if he went somewhere else and won.

Actually that would stink if he left and then did great things elsewhere. And, if that happened, I'd have to blame our culture of settling for why that could be possible. I'd blame the University/Alum/Fans equally for being mediocre no matter who coaches. A sad prospect.

We are seeing it in Football. The single thing I would say is that Hazel was incredibly awful and his recruits were on a par. Painter and his recruits are not anywhere close to where football was. I also think Brohm was a clear and present great coach in the making and at a school he was ready to move up from PLUS, he was somewhat local and football is more of a national recruiting arena.

I don't see a great coach in-waiting, especially not one at a school in the midwest (for local recruiting). There well could be one, I just don't see who it is. Would Weber come back? Is he the answer?

Are we ready to "try" someone from a lower conference? Like Hazel? Cuonzo is taken, Drew is taken, Beard is taken, Maybe the Loyola guy (who has ONE recruit higher than a 2-star), but is one year enough to define him? If Izzo were to step down ... who would MSU go after? and who would they get? and would they get someone who would not come to Purdue? Is the guy at W-KY any good ... better than ... ??? Worth the risk?

No, currently, our basketball is not in the depth of the football program. However, you have to admit, there was a time Painter took us to the basement. Not good times that I want to see again. If he ever takes us there again, I think Bobinski kicks him to the curb. JMHO.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

This is very true on all points. However, I am not afraid of aspiring for more. I'm willing to roll the dice for the bigger prize.



Actually that would stink if he left and then did great things elsewhere. And, if that happened, I'd have to blame our culture of settling for why that could be possible. I'd blame the University/Alum/Fans equally for being mediocre no matter who coaches. A sad prospect.



No, currently, our basketball is not in the depth of the football program. However, you have to admit, there was a time Painter took us to the basement. Not good times that I want to see again. If he ever takes us there again, I think Bobinski kicks him to the curb. JMHO.

Please keep in mind that the anvil around the neck of Purdue football and basketball for a quarter century was finally shown the egress last year. I do cut CMP some slack for having to report to that clown. But that’s in the past now...

 

[boiler-deuce]

Please keep in mind that the anvil around the neck of Purdue football and basketball for a quarter century was finally shown the egress last year. I do cut CMP some slack for having to report to that clown. But that’s in the past now...

I couldn't agree more!!

 

[dlaird8]

Two final fours within 6 years for Michigan. Purdue hasn’t been since 80.

 

[typeviic]

Two final fours within 6 years for Michigan. Purdue hasn’t been since 80.

Yeah, and one is a football/hockey state, while the other is a 'basketball state'

 

[IndySouthsider]

good question ... I say "not so much." Hasn't done much recently.

Was that a rhetorical question????

Very much so.

Beware the one year wonders

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Very much so.

Beware the one year wonders

What are you talking about?