CMP reduces ex-Mr. Basketballers to company men (Spoiler: it doesn't work)

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

While this abysmal performance at O$U is mostly on the players, the team being reduced to so little options offensively due to CMP is a huge mistake, and clearly opponents are cuing in on it.

Both Morton and Furst were Mr. Basketball in their state, yet here we are in their Senior and Junior years and they look terrified to even consider shooting, even though scoring is a major way they got a Purdue offer to begin with. Why is this? Did they forget how to shoot? Of course not, they have bought in to what their 'role' is. LOL.

Late in the game today, our offensive threats are Braden with the pump fake to potentially making a shot and/or drawing a foul, or dumping down to Edey, who still likes to dribble over just going up strong. Both not great options with three other guys watching. So bizarre, to limit the offense in this way. Easy for OSU to sit on both options and jam them up.

My wife was at the game today and she said all the other Purdue fans around her couldn't believe how scared Morton looked to shoot (refused wide open looks) or how soft Furst was in attacking. Both played better/harder in highschool, especially mentally. Other issue was TKR starting strong but then sent to the bench (???).

I like CMP on many levels, but overthinking and over-baking players into these finite roles don't work over organic basketball, playing with flow and confidence.

His stubbornness keeps these kids in a mental cage, and its tough to watch. Feel bad for some of these kids who are told to play hard and feed Edey.

 

[proudopete]

While this abysmal performance at O$U is mostly on the players, the team being reduced to so little options offensively due to CMP is a huge mistake, and clearly opponents are cuing in on it.

Both Morton and Furst were Mr. Basketball in their state, yet here we are in their Senior and Junior years and they look terrified to even consider shooting, even though scoring is a major way they got a Purdue offer to begin with. Why is this? Did they forget how to shoot? Of course not, they have bought in to what their 'role' is. LOL.

Late in the game today, our offensive threats are Braden with the pump fake to potentially making a shot and/or drawing a foul, or dumping down to Edey, who still likes to dribble over just going up strong. Both not great options with three other guys watching. So bizarre, to limit the offense in this way. Easy for OSU to sit on both options and jam them up.

My wife was at the game today and she said all the other Purdue fans around her couldn't believe how scared Morton looked to shoot (refused wide open looks) or how soft Furst was in attacking. Both played better/harder in highschool, especially mentally. Other issue was TKR starting strong but then sent to the bench (???).

I like CMP on many levels, but overthinking and over-baking players into these finite roles don't work over organic basketball, playing with flow and confidence.

His stubbornness keeps these kids in a mental cage, and its tough to watch. Feel bad for some of these kids who are told to play hard and feed Edey.

There’s only so much time to practice and you’re asking for the 8th and 9th guys to get time and plays that I am sure is used for the top 6 guys.

 

[pubill]

So you would rather have Morton or Furst take a 15-20 footer rather than throwing it down to Edey?

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

So you would rather have Morton or Furst take a 15-20 footer rather than throwing it down to Edey?

Wide open shot? Absolutely.

Throwing down to Edey clearly didn't work well today.

 

[pubill]

Wide open shot? Absolutely.

Throwing down to Edey clearly didn't work well today.

Glad you are not coaching us. I don't feel sorry at all for our players who are told to play hard and throw it to Edey. He is Natl POY and they have had the glory of playing for a Top 5 team the last 2 years.

 

[qazplm]

So you would rather have Morton or Furst take a 15-20 footer rather than throwing it down to Edey?

I'd rather have plans for when throwing it to Edey isn't working.

I'm not going to go as far as the original post. I don't think it's quite to that level.

I do think Painter shortens his rotations too much which leaves the team scrambling on days like this with the primary options playing poorly and the secondary options not ready

Why not more Heide and Colvin today? Why is Loyer still out there in crunch time? Why are we stuck in the two bigs model with Edey and Furst? And with Morton also playing which reduces us to three offensive concerns?

I don't think his personnel choices were great today. I'm not one calling for anyone to be benched or thinking that Colvin is the answer but boy this sure seemed like a game where you toss Colvin and Heide out there for more minutes to see what you have on a day when a lot of normal players were struggling.

 

[qazplm]

Glad you are not coaching us. I don't feel sorry at all for our players who are told to play hard and throw it to Edey. He is Natl POY and they have had the glory of playing for a Top 5 team the last 2 years.

He's not Superman. "Just throw it to Edey" has a ceiling on it.

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

Glad you are not coaching us. I don't feel sorry at all for our players who are told to play hard and throw it to Edey. He is Natl POY and they have had the glory of playing for a Top 5 team the last 2 years.

K. And games like today when he can't catch, dribbles for no reason, plays slow, gets jammed up (fouled or not), let's keep throwing it to him because he won an award.

 

[pubill]

K. And games like today when he can't catch, dribbles for no reason, plays slow, gets jammed up (fouled or not), let's keep throwing it to him because he won an award.

If you still don't think he was still, while not having best game, either our our best option or Number 2 at worst, with Smith the other, I don't see the point in conversing with you.

 

[johnboiler123]

Ethan couldn’t throw a ball in the ocean. I’m ALL for other options besides throw it into edey every time, but absolutely not if Morton is the one taking the shot. He is not big ten caliber imo. I’ve been very vocal over the years about painters offensive philosophy being a massive hindrance in the tournament. It could maybe work, but we would need a massive talent upgrade at our wing and guard positions.

 

[pubill]

If you still don't think he was still, while not having best game, either our our best option or Number 2 at worst, with Smith the other, I don't see the point in conversing with you.

Edey was 7-11 from field, 8-8 from FT line with 3 assists. Bad he did have 6 TOs, and I agree this was one of his worst games, but still better option than anywhere else.

 

[pubill]

Ethan couldn’t throw a ball in the ocean. I’m ALL for other options besides throw it into edey every time, but absolutely not if Morton is the one taking the shot. He is not big ten caliber imo. I’ve been very vocal over the years about painters offensive philosophy being a massive hindrance in the tournament. It could maybe work, but we would need a massive talent upgrade at our wing and guard positions.

I believe our talent at PG is as good as anyones. Morton had to play , cause no one could shut down Thornton, but him not shooting did not cause us to lose this game.

 

[qazplm]

Edey was 7-11 from field, 8-8 from FT line with 3 assists. Bad he did have 6 TOs, and I agree this was one of his worst games, but still better option than anywhere else.

And we lost, to a bad team.

You don't win championships with just one option.

Even Jordan needed more.

I mean why do we ever let anyone else ever shoot then? Why does Painter even bother running plays for anyone else if the no brainer every single play move is dump it down into Edey?

Clearly Painter doesn't believe every play must dump it into Edey because he specifically runs plays for other players on the court.

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

Edey was 7-11 from field, 8-8 from FT line with 3 assists. Bad he did have 6 TOs, and I agree this was one of his worst games, but still better option than anywhere else.

You're literally responding/talking to yourself.

Also, you're not comprehending the point I'm making here. There are very good basketball players on our team, yet our coach chisels down the offensive options to a paltry two or three. Not great.

 

[pubill]

And we lost, to a bad team.

You don't win championships with just one option.

Even Jordan needed more.

I mean why do we ever let anyone else ever shoot then? Why does Painter even bother running plays for anyone else if the no brainer every single play move is dump it down into Edey?

Clearly Painter doesn't believe every play must dump it into Edey because he specifically runs plays for other players on the court.

He typically with game on line will only run plays for Smith or Edey. Those plays may have an option that finds an open shot for Gillis. Jones or Loyer, but you don't run plays for lesser players.

 

[pubill]

You're literally responding/talking to yourself.

Also, you're not comprehending the point I'm making here. There are very good basketball players on our team, yet our coach chisels down the offensive options to a paltry two or three. Not great.

No other coach runs plays for the 3rd and 4th options on the floor.

 

[qazplm]

He typically with game on line will only run plays for Smith or Edey. Those plays may have an option that finds an open shot for Gillis. Jones or Loyer, but you don't run plays for lesser players.

Lol I see. Everything is running perfect. No changes at all.

For all the folks who think Painter perfect, I'm glad he doesn't actually view himself that way and does make changes (albeit slowly).

Running your plays through only two players is an easy way to get shut down against tournament teams.

Neither Smith nor Edey are SO good as to be unstoppable. Opposing teams focus on them so we have to be able to have other options.

 

[johnboiler123]

Lol I see. Everything is running perfect. No changes at all.

For all the folks who think Painter perfect, I'm glad he doesn't actually view himself that way and does make changes (albeit slowly).

Running your plays through only two players is an easy way to get shut down against tournament teams.

Neither Smith nor Edey are SO good as to be unstoppable. Opposing teams focus on them so we have to be able to have other options.

Smiths physical limitations are what really hurt us with him. Other than that he has a pretty solid game.

 

[qazplm]

No other coach runs plays for the 3rd and 4th options on the floor.

Sure they do. They run the offense and someone eventually gets a good shot and that person takes it UNLESS there's a clear advantage that's working in THAT game.

You tell a good team that only Smith or Edey are going to take a shot and they are liking their chances.

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

No other coach runs plays for the 3rd and 4th options on the floor.

Take a nap. I know we are all big mad over this game, but reading comprehension ain't your thing right now.

Boiler up.

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

Neither Smith nor Edey are SO good as to be unstoppable. Opposing teams focus on them so we have to be able to have other options.

Literally coincides with my initial point in this thread. Thank you.

 

[KenTre1983]

I don’t think Edey with only 11 shot attempts or the team with only 9 3 pt attempts is the way to win any game. Unfortunately, I’ve seen this movie more times than I’d like, and I’m pretty sure the ending won’t be different this time, either.

 

[Poprudy]

Wide open shot? Absolutely.

Throwing down to Edey clearly didn't work well today.

Definitely agree. I mean if you need points from the guard spot then he needs to shoot. Our other guards were off so how could it hurt.

 

[pubill]

Take a nap. I know we are all big mad over this game, but reading comprehension ain't your thing right now.

Boiler up.

You may need the nap. One of your initial points was we should feel sorry for some of the players who are told to play hard and throw it down to Edey. That point is plain stupid.

 

[northside100]

Wide open shot? Absolutely.

Throwing down to Edey clearly didn't work well today.

I disagree with almost everything from your original post but agree that in games where defenders are allowed to rake Zach’s arms to create turnovers this team needs to have better alternative options down the stretch. The no call on Key in the last minute was atrocious but you have to know you’re playing with fire on the road when the refs have been swallowing their whistle on those calls the whole game.

 

[krazychicagod]

Guys its the same shit every year. Teams figure us out by March.

Big man post centric back to basket basketball DOES.NOT.WIN. today.

Prepare yourselves now for the early march exit

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

You may need the nap. One of your initial points was we should feel sorry for some of the players who are told to play hard and throw it down to Edey. That point is plain stupid.

Where did I say to feel sorry for anyone? I'll wait...

Main issue is that our offense is limited. With players who were brought in the program with several skills, namely, scoring the ball.

 

[DrEss]

I disagree with almost everything from your original post but agree that in games where defenders are allowed to take Zach’s arms to create turnovers this team needs to have better alternative options down the stretch. The no call on Key in the last minute was atrocious but you have to know you’re playing with fire on the road when the refs have been swallowing their whistle on those calls the whole game.

Completely agree with your last sentence.

 

[Boiler Buck]

While this abysmal performance at O$U is mostly on the players, the team being reduced to so little options offensively due to CMP is a huge mistake, and clearly opponents are cuing in on it.

Both Morton and Furst were Mr. Basketball in their state, yet here we are in their Senior and Junior years and they look terrified to even consider shooting, even though scoring is a major way they got a Purdue offer to begin with. Why is this? Did they forget how to shoot? Of course not, they have bought in to what their 'role' is. LOL.

Late in the game today, our offensive threats are Braden with the pump fake to potentially making a shot and/or drawing a foul, or dumping down to Edey, who still likes to dribble over just going up strong. Both not great options with three other guys watching. So bizarre, to limit the offense in this way. Easy for OSU to sit on both options and jam them up.

My wife was at the game today and she said all the other Purdue fans around her couldn't believe how scared Morton looked to shoot (refused wide open looks) or how soft Furst was in attacking. Both played better/harder in highschool, especially mentally. Other issue was TKR starting strong but then sent to the bench (???).

I like CMP on many levels, but overthinking and over-baking players into these finite roles don't work over organic basketball, playing with flow and confidence.

His stubbornness keeps these kids in a mental cage, and its tough to watch. Feel bad for some of these kids who are told to play hard and feed Edey.

Morton & Furst are not this team's problems.

This is a top 10 team with 3 losses. If you can fault CMP for that....well done. All top 10 teams are losing on road. Seems to happen alot.

Far as I could see it was on ALL the starters who lost this game. Smith was the only one that played halfway decent on O. No one played real well on D, including Morton.

Coaching wise.....and this is not why they lost.....the only thing I would have done differently is bench Loyer, and keep him there. Kid needs to learn poor play = bench. But coaches seem reluctant to bench him when his play clearly deserves it.

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

Morton & Furst are not this team's problems.

This is a top 10 teams with 3 losses. If you can fault CMP for that....well done. All top 10 teams are losing on road. Seems to happen alot.

Far as I could see it was on ALL the starters who lost this game. Smith was the only one that played halfway decent on O. No one played real well on D, including Morton.

Coaching wise.....and this is not why they lost.....the only thing I would have done differently is bench Loyer, and keep him there. Kid needs to learn poor play = bench. But coaches seem reluctant to bench him when his play clearly deserves it.

I didn't say Morton and Furst are the team problems. I said they are examples of this team simply being painted in to a corner (pun) with their offensive options, which makes no sense given the potential of this group of players.

I agree on Loyer, I have been saying this most season and people on this forum get so butthurt over this idea, which is bizarre.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

While this abysmal performance at O$U is mostly on the players, the team being reduced to so little options offensively due to CMP is a huge mistake, and clearly opponents are cuing in on it.

Both Morton and Furst were Mr. Basketball in their state, yet here we are in their Senior and Junior years and they look terrified to even consider shooting, even though scoring is a major way they got a Purdue offer to begin with. Why is this? Did they forget how to shoot? Of course not, they have bought in to what their 'role' is. LOL.

Late in the game today, our offensive threats are Braden with the pump fake to potentially making a shot and/or drawing a foul, or dumping down to Edey, who still likes to dribble over just going up strong. Both not great options with three other guys watching. So bizarre, to limit the offense in this way. Easy for OSU to sit on both options and jam them up.

My wife was at the game today and she said all the other Purdue fans around her couldn't believe how scared Morton looked to shoot (refused wide open looks) or how soft Furst was in attacking. Both played better/harder in highschool, especially mentally. Other issue was TKR starting strong but then sent to the bench (???).

I like CMP on many levels, but overthinking and over-baking players into these finite roles don't work over organic basketball, playing with flow and confidence.

His stubbornness keeps these kids in a mental cage, and its tough to watch. Feel bad for some of these kids who are told to play hard and feed Edey.

Morton has never been able to shoot and Furst has had opportunities but just can’t knock jumpers down.

I would rather see Colvin get more time when Fletch is unproductive.

 

[northside100]

Big man post centric back to basket basketball DOES.NOT.WIN. today.

Pretty silly statement given that UConn ran and runs a lot of low post stuff, some of it modeled after Purdue.

Post centric offense doesn’t win when you don’t have good enough play from the other players when the opponent sells out to take away the post or is allowed to foul. Agree that that was the case today.

 

[MightyMike55]

While this abysmal performance at O$U is mostly on the players, the team being reduced to so little options offensively due to CMP is a huge mistake, and clearly opponents are cuing in on it.

Both Morton and Furst were Mr. Basketball in their state, yet here we are in their Senior and Junior years and they look terrified to even consider shooting, even though scoring is a major way they got a Purdue offer to begin with. Why is this? Did they forget how to shoot? Of course not, they have bought in to what their 'role' is. LOL.

Late in the game today, our offensive threats are Braden with the pump fake to potentially making a shot and/or drawing a foul, or dumping down to Edey, who still likes to dribble over just going up strong. Both not great options with three other guys watching. So bizarre, to limit the offense in this way. Easy for OSU to sit on both options and jam them up.

My wife was at the game today and she said all the other Purdue fans around her couldn't believe how scared Morton looked to shoot (refused wide open looks) or how soft Furst was in attacking. Both played better/harder in highschool, especially mentally. Other issue was TKR starting strong but then sent to the bench (???).

I like CMP on many levels, but overthinking and over-baking players into these finite roles don't work over organic basketball, playing with flow and confidence.

His stubbornness keeps these kids in a mental cage, and it’s tough to watch. Feel bad for some of these kids who are told to play hard and feed Edey.

I agree, this has to be a mental issue. Is Coach Painter making them afraid to shoot? The early season games where our offense flows, Mortan and Frust are hitting jumpers.

 

[Poprudy]

I really blame the refs. The conference has been a sh*t show for years and watching the inconstancy of calls are just horrid. It's a conference issue and until this is changed. The sh*t show will continue.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I didn't say Morton and Furst are the team problems. I said they are examples of this team simply being painted in to a corner (pun) with their offensive options, which makes no sense given the potential of this group of players.

I agree on Loyer, I have been saying this most season and people on this forum get so butthurt over this idea, which is bizarre.

I really do not think Furst shows the potential you think he does. Slow off the ground. Limited lift. And slow response and hands that are suspect to steals on double teams. Average outside shot. Even with Edey's departure, not sure his role changes next year.

Nice sub and great teammate. Glad he's a Boiler, but CMP has him in the correct role. He can rebound, be physical and play the reserve 5 well, and I see that continuing into next year.

 

[krazychicagod]

Pretty silly statement given that UConn ran and runs a lot of low post stuff, some of it modeled after Purdue.

Post centric offense doesn’t win when you don’t have good enough play from the other players when the opponent sells out to take away the post or is allowed to foul. Agree that that was the case today.

There is no way you can watch a healthy uconn team play and say they play like we do. There is absolutely no way.

Just because they have a good 7 footer does not mean they play anywhere close to how we do

 

[northside100]

....the only thing I would have done differently is bench Loyer, and keep him there. Kid needs to learn poor play = bench. But coaches seem reluctant to bench him when his play clearly deserves it.

I agree with the sentiment but who do you play in his place that can put the ball on the floor given that OSU wasn’t really giving up many open threes.

Fletch really struggled today and IMO Smith and Jones were just ok. If one of those two plays like an AA or all conference player respectively today you get away with Loyer struggling. That didn’t happen. Maybe you play Colvin more and run some stuff for him? I don’t think that’s the answer but I don’t really know where else he’d turn.

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

I really blame the refs. The conference has been a sh*t show for years and watching the inconstancy of calls are just horrid. It's a conference issue and until this is changed. The sh*t show will continue.

Bad calls will alway happen. There is a thread with comments like this in every B10 forum. Who cares about the refs. Our limited offense is more of an issue than the refs.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I agree with the sentiment but who do you play in his place that can put the ball on the floor given that OSU wasn’t really giving up many open threes.

Fletch really struggled today and IMO Smith and Jones were just ok. If one of those two plays like an AA or all conference player respectively today you get away with Loyer struggling. That didn’t happen. Maybe you play Colvin more and run some stuff for him? I don’t think that’s the answer but I don’t really know where else he’d turn.

Understandable.

In regards to Colvin's limited minutes, my Dad was kinda mad that it looked like Smith would not pass him the ball. I said prob had another play in mind. But I see what my Dad said. Didn't look like they were running anything for Colvin

 

[northside100]

There is no way you can watch a healthy uconn team play and say they play like we do. There is absolutely no way.

Just because they have a good 7 footer does not mean they play anywhere close to how we do

I won’t rely on your emotional eyeball test. UConn won a national championship last year running a bunch of post offense for Sanago and Clingan.

The difference between that team and Purdue’s effort today is that Hawkins, Newton and Karaban were studs and when teams or refs took away the post play they consistently made them pay.

Purdue does the same at its best but Loyer really struggled today and Smith and Jones were just ok. I agree with your assessment that if that happens n the NCAAT this team is susceptible to an early exit but it’s not because post offense doesn’t work, it’s because you need other players who can take advantage when the defense sells out to stop post offense. Forcing it to the post when you’re not getting calls doesn’t work and Purdue didn’t have anyone else to go to today.