CMP reduces ex-Mr. Basketballers to company men (Spoiler: it doesn't work)

[tjreese]

Yes, every team, or most every team, would take Edey. But, maybe there's some coaches out there that value more dribble drive/kick outs than running the offense through the low post. It's hard to argue with Edey's production, but the problem is, if a team can defend him or he gets in foul trouble, Purdue becomes pretty limited offensively.
It's only happened a few times this year, but if Edey gets in early foul trouble in a tourney game, I can see the rest of the team becoming extremely tight under that pressure to win without him.

No question he is the hub that all spokes connect. That is why you are a bit more dependent on the refs doing an okay job. As of now and it may or may not be that way in a few years, the bigs are allowed a lot of fouling and the perimeter players not so much...although in some of the Big East games there was a lot of holding by the D on players trying to go to the ball. I just think part of this is the speed of play is faster, and presents quicker fouls that are missed than what would happen with a longer clock where you could do things making it easier for the refs to see.

There are a lot of variables in play right now that make it hard to discern how Purdue would do in the tourney. Road games with large crowds, top coaches with extra scouting on teams and players, players knowing other players...some of that is just similar to conference games in general. Teams that Purdue plays in the tourney aren't going to have the perimeter players of Northwestern AND this is big...the bodies to throw at Zach without hurting their offense. Teams can't look at Nebraska and say all we have to do is shoot out our A$$ behind the arc to beat Purdue.

I do see OSU scouted though. I see some press to eat clock and if possible cover the perimeter and slap at Zach. If you slap and it doesn't get called...great for the opposition. If you foul and it stops a basket...great for the opposition and you can do this a few times without costing you at the line great for the opposition. If he is almost 100% from in close, his FTs are not. Then if you have mature perimeter players which is what will happen in the first round or two and have that mid range game like Thorton or Schfino last year...the shot will be there UNLESS the 4 and 5 man is not as much a threat that Zach can really challenge the mid range shot and not get out of position so much that it hurts the team or Zach picks up fouls.

 

[rjmpu82]

I like our "post-centric" offense as long as throwing it into the post isn't the equivalent of throwing it in to a black hole. The post player, whomever that is, needs to feel the double team or trap and get rid of the ball quicker. Playing inside out works well for us as long as the ball continues to move. When the ball stops moving, the defense can recover. I love seeing Edey catch, take a quick look and if nothing is available the ball goes right back outside.

 

[tjreese]

I like our "post-centric" offense as long as throwing it into the post isn't the equivalent of throwing it in to a black hole. The post player, whomever that is, needs to feel the double team or trap and get rid of the ball quicker. Playing inside out works well for us as long as the ball continues to move. When the ball stops moving, the defense can recover. I love seeing Edey catch, take a quick look and if nothing is available the ball goes right back outside.

There are advantages of the ball entering the low post due to vision. It puts the defensive players in a slightly different position due to ball location and their player on the perimeter. Unlike dribble drive offenses where the defense sees the ball and all the players, now there are choices. Do the perimeter players look down at the ball away from their man and allow the kick out after, with or without relocating as you state? If the D turns his back you can dive or relocate. If the D turns sideways as they should and see their man and the ball should they go dig then the D can play the ball in the post and in a better position to relocate when the D can't get back to you in time. Now you see the 4 man double Zach with the 5 and they really try to cut down the 140/180 degree pass and cover the others and in many cases they turn their backs on Trey and just focus on their defenders.

That said a quicker pass as you suggest "if" a "shooter" is open (at least for the pass back) and even if it is a pass back to Zach again makes the next double or dig a bit slower...especially if the perimeter player relocates and the diver is ready to go as well. Sometimes if facing a press that wants you to rush and tries to eat clock if you don't (OSU as an example), has already cut down the available time (now 21 or 22 sec) to get in position to feed the post and kick it back out and then reenter especially if it requires some relocation and so now you are working a bit against the clock unless you go to it as the first option. You probably have 15 seconds for the most part to shoot since you don't want to depend on a better shot in the last couple of seconds when everyone knows a shot is going up.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

When your best player is a post player, it doesnt work.

Our best player won’t be a post player next year, I’m sure you’ll quit whining then.

 

[BoilerDeac]

No question he is the hub that all spokes connect. That is why you are a bit more dependent on the refs doing an okay job. As of now and it may or may not be that way in a few years, the bigs are allowed a lot of fouling and the perimeter players not so much...although in some of the Big East games there was a lot of holding by the D on players trying to go to the ball. I just think part of this is the speed of play is faster, and presents quicker fouls that are missed than what would happen with a longer clock where you could do things making it easier for the refs to see.

There are a lot of variables in play right now that make it hard to discern how Purdue would do in the tourney. Road games with large crowds, top coaches with extra scouting on teams and players, players knowing other players...some of that is just similar to conference games in general. Teams that Purdue plays in the tourney aren't going to have the perimeter players of Northwestern AND this is big...the bodies to throw at Zach without hurting their offense. Teams can't look at Nebraska and say all we have to do is shoot out our A$$ behind the arc to beat Purdue.

I do see OSU scouted though. I see some press to eat clock and if possible cover the perimeter and slap at Zach. If you slap and it doesn't get called...great for the opposition. If you foul and it stops a basket...great for the opposition and you can do this a few times without costing you at the line great for the opposition. If he is almost 100% from in close, his FTs are not. Then if you have mature perimeter players which is what will happen in the first round or two and have that mid range game like Thorton or Schfino last year...the shot will be there UNLESS the 4 and 5 man is not as much a threat that Zach can really challenge the mid range shot and not get out of position so much that it hurts the team or Zach picks up fouls.

“There are a lot of variables in play right now that make it hard to discern how Purdue would do in the tourney.”

I disagree. There’s one variable that makes it fairly predictable: Painter

Also, this team is basically built in the same Edey-centric mold. Even with the great addition of Jones, the nucleus of this team hasn’t changed.

 

[Boileratthebeach]

But Painter is infatuated with 7 foot low post scorers. Painter never let Zach develop his mid-range jumper game, which means the middle is usually clogged up and we're either relying on long jumpers or Edey.

But Zach himself has questioned the need for shots further out. He’s leading the country (i believe ) in FG%.

 

[bonefish1]

don't think Jacobson is exactly in that mold and we may see Berg go out on the floor some

It's only practice/drill highlights, but there's a lot of video of Berg showing his range and having a nice jumper and some handles for a 7 footer. Would be interested to see if Painter is developing that or just making him sit in the post.

 

[bonefish1]

But Zach himself has questioned the need for shots further out. He’s leading the country (i believe ) in FG%.

That's great. But when has Purdue's dominant low post scorer ever led to a deep tourney run?
Haarms was more of a stretch 4 than a low post 5.

 

[tjreese]

“There are a lot of variables in play right now that make it hard to discern how Purdue would do in the tourney.”

I disagree. There’s one variable that makes it fairly predictable: Painter

Also, this team is basically built in the same Edey-centric mold. Even with the great addition of Jones, the nucleus of this team hasn’t changed.

Ah, but the electrons have changed. There are more in the outer shell.

 

[tjreese]

It's only practice/drill highlights, but there's a lot of video of Berg showing his range and having a nice jumper and some handles for a 7 footer. Would be interested to see if Painter is developing that or just making him sit in the post.

no idea. we just know Berg's dad sent him to Purdue to learn post play. Jacobson will definitely play some out.

 

[PurdueGator]

While this abysmal performance at O$U is mostly on the players, the team being reduced to so little options offensively due to CMP is a huge mistake, and clearly opponents are cuing in on it.

Both Morton and Furst were Mr. Basketball in their state, yet here we are in their Senior and Junior years and they look terrified to even consider shooting, even though scoring is a major way they got a Purdue offer to begin with. Why is this? Did they forget how to shoot? Of course not, they have bought in to what their 'role' is. LOL.

Late in the game today, our offensive threats are Braden with the pump fake to potentially making a shot and/or drawing a foul, or dumping down to Edey, who still likes to dribble over just going up strong. Both not great options with three other guys watching. So bizarre, to limit the offense in this way. Easy for OSU to sit on both options and jam them up.

My wife was at the game today and she said all the other Purdue fans around her couldn't believe how scared Morton looked to shoot (refused wide open looks) or how soft Furst was in attacking. Both played better/harder in highschool, especially mentally. Other issue was TKR starting strong but then sent to the bench (???).

I like CMP on many levels, but overthinking and over-baking players into these finite roles don't work over organic basketball, playing with flow and confidence.

His stubbornness keeps these kids in a mental cage, and it’s tough to watch. Feel bad for some of these kids who are told to play hard and feed

While this abysmal performance at O$U is mostly on the players, the team being reduced to so little options offensively due to CMP is a huge mistake, and clearly opponents are cuing in on it.

Both Morton and Furst were Mr. Basketball in their state, yet here we are in their Senior and Junior years and they look terrified to even consider shooting, even though scoring is a major way they got a Purdue offer to begin with. Why is this? Did they forget how to shoot? Of course not, they have bought in to what their 'role' is. LOL.

Late in the game today, our offensive threats are Braden with the pump fake to potentially making a shot and/or drawing a foul, or dumping down to Edey, who still likes to dribble over just going up strong. Both not great options with three other guys watching. So bizarre, to limit the offense in this way. Easy for OSU to sit on both options and jam them up.

My wife was at the game today and she said all the other Purdue fans around her couldn't believe how scared Morton looked to shoot (refused wide open looks) or how soft Furst was in attacking. Both played better/harder in highschool, especially mentally. Other issue was TKR starting strong but then sent to the bench (???).

I like CMP on many levels, but overthinking and over-baking players into these finite roles don't work over organic basketball, playing with flow and confidence.

His stubbornness keeps these kids in a mental cage, and its tough to watch. Feel bad for some of these kids who are told to play hard and feed Edey.

An ignorant person deserves to be ignored.

 

[BoilerDeac]

An ignorant person deserves to be ignored.

Care to refute the post?

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

Care to refute the post?

Nah, he will just post my initial post twice like a doofus.

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

It's only practice/drill highlights, but there's a lot of video of Berg showing his range and having a nice jumper and some handles for a 7 footer. Would be interested to see if Painter is developing that or just making him sit in the post.

You know deep down that he will primarily play with his back to the basket.

 

[BoilerDeac]

You know deep down that he will primarily play with his back to the basket.

The truth is, Purdue doesn't really NEED a big who shoots a bunch of 3s.

What Purdue needs are more bigs in the mold of Haarms: rim-running, shot-blocking bigs who can occasionally step out and stretch the defense. These types of bigs are MUCH more compatible with dynamic wings and guards (like Catchings and Harris).

Continuing the back to the basket centric offense will only stunt the potential of players like Catchings, Harris, Colvin, etc.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

You know deep down that he will primarily play with his back to the basket.

Yeah cuz that’s what CMP did with JJ and Haarms…

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

The truth is, Purdue doesn't really NEED a big who shoots a bunch of 3s.

What Purdue needs are more bigs in the mold of Haarms: rim-running, shot-blocking bigs who can occasionally step out and stretch the defense. These types of bigs are MUCH more compatible with dynamic wings and guards (like Catchings and Harris).

Continuing the back to the basket centric offense will only stunt the potential of players like Catchings, Harris, Colvin, etc.

Hard to argue. Probably true, however, I also remember folks around here swooning over that vid of Berg shooting from deep during a workout.

Same thing with Morton's highschool vids, where he attacks the basket and makes shots. But now he is a 'defender'. I have no problem with roles, but players playing hesitant and afraid to make a mistake isn't the way to go.

 

[MetMyWifeAtHarrys]

Yeah cuz that’s what CMP did with JJ and Haarms…

Both players completely different styles out the gate.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Both players completely different styles out the gate.

In what way, exactly ?

 

[tjreese]

The truth is, Purdue doesn't really NEED a big who shoots a bunch of 3s.

What Purdue needs are more bigs in the mold of Haarms: rim-running, shot-blocking bigs who can occasionally step out and stretch the defense. These types of bigs are MUCH more compatible with dynamic wings and guards (like Catchings and Harris).

Continuing the back to the basket centric offense will only stunt the potential of players like Catchings, Harris, Colvin, etc.

You are going to see them getting up and down a bit quicker next year

 

[Boileratthebeach]

You know deep down that he will primarily play with his back to the basket.

From what I recall another poster mentioned that Berg came to Purdue as a 4 who wanted to learn how to play the 5….

 

[tjreese]

From what I recall another poster mentioned that Berg came to Purdue as a 4 who wanted to learn how to play the 5….

I don't know that he was a 4. He played on the perimeter and his dad wanted him to learn to play on the blocks and why he came to Purdue

 

[BoilerAndy]

I don't know that he was a 4. He played on the perimeter and his dad wanted him to learn to play on the blocks and why he came to Purdue

Yes. His dad was quoted saying that's why he came to Purdue.