Crickets

[mathboy]

Include the most recent ND win, possibly Arizona, Painter is 8-20 vs ranked opponents on a neutral court. Not very good.

two of those losses were to the eventual NC during the NCAAT. Seems like the Landry team hit Florida during the tournament, and gave them their hardest contest (per the Florida guys). Seems like one of the Kramer teams did the same.

A third loss was in MSG to Okla., in one of the most one sided officiated games I have every witnessed.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

If you haven't seen it, then you flat out have not looked in 3 years. There have been multiple threads with extensive discussions that included people generating lists of coaches who they thought could be better than Painter.

Then I obviously brushed them aside and didn't care to read because, frankly put, the discussion is a stupid one. CMP has done nothing remotely close to having to be fired to move the program in a better direction. He is a hell of a coach and probably a Tier 2 coach in college basketball (behind the likes of Pitino, Krzyzewski, Bill Self, Boeheim, Smart, Alford, Izzo, Calipari, and a few I am overlooking). Outside of those 8-10 who consistently have their programs in the top 10-15, Painter is clearly a great coach who has shown the ability to build the program in a positive direction and it appears to be doing that again.

If you look at the coaches I listed above, how many of those would be considered programs where they use lots of 3 to 4 year players to build good to great teams? Shaka Smart at UT is still a bit of a mystery but he hasn't really had a chance to truly mold the program where he wants but maybe Boeheim at Syracuse? Painter knows that Purdue will never be a contender year in and year out because of the need to build an experienced and deep team to compete with the hyper athletic/one-and-done type teams of Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, and MSU.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Then I obviously brushed them aside and didn't care to read because, frankly put, the discussion is a stupid one. CMP has done nothing remotely close to having to be fired to move the program in a better direction. He is a hell of a coach and probably a Tier 2 coach in college basketball (behind the likes of Pitino, Krzyzewski, Bill Self, Boeheim, Smart, Alford, Izzo, Calipari, and a few I am overlooking). Outside of those 8-10 who consistently have their programs in the top 10-15, Painter is clearly a great coach who has shown the ability to build the program in a positive direction and it appears to be doing that again.

If you look at the coaches I listed above, how many of those would be considered programs where they use lots of 3 to 4 year players to build good to great teams? Shaka Smart at UT is still a bit of a mystery but he hasn't really had a chance to truly mold the program where he wants but maybe Boeheim at Syracuse? Painter knows that Purdue will never be a contender year in and year out because of the need to build an experienced and deep team to compete with the hyper athletic/one-and-done type teams of Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, and MSU.

Good points. But it's tough to predict whether a team can "never" be a contender year in and year out. We have seen things change at schools that become regular contenders where they previously were not. MSU and Villanova come to mind. Other schools that once were perennial contenders have not been to the FF in a long time. Georgetown, Indiana, and Arizona come to mind. Winning begets winning, and it seems that the schools that find the right formula or get the breaks at the right times, and can consistently keep it going, are the ones that become the "new" powerhouses.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Good points. But it's tough to predict whether a team can "never" be a contender year in and year out. We have seen things change at schools that become regular contenders where they previously were not. MSU and Villanova come to mind. Other schools that once were perennial contenders have not been to the FF in a long time. Georgetown, Indiana, and Arizona come to mind. Winning begets winning, and it seems that the schools that find the right formula or get the breaks at the right times, and can consistently keep it going, are the ones that become the "new" powerhouses.

When I said contender, I meant a serious contender for a FF and NC. This years team would be considered a somewhat serious contender for a FF...baring injuries and a hard draw in the tourney.

 

[boilerzz]

Include the most recent ND win, possibly Arizona, Painter is 8-20 vs ranked opponents on a neutral court. Not very good.

I had forgot to ad ND (updated) but I count 7-18 which, while not great, is about what you'd expect from a non-elite program and coach IMO.

 

[M51]

two of those losses were to the eventual NC during the NCAAT. Seems like the Landry team hit Florida during the tournament, and gave them their hardest contest (per the Florida guys). Seems like one of the Kramer teams did the same.

A third loss was in MSG to Okla., in one of the most one sided officiated games I have every witnessed.

Agree with the lopsided free throw numbers in the Oklahoma game. Something like 45-7.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Agree with the lopsided free throw numbers in the Oklahoma game. Something like 45-7.

Pretty good memory, M. Not to open old wounds....but here's the numbers on that from the box-score. Oklahoma was 33-46 on FT's, Purdue 4-5. Oklahoma whistled for 15 fouls, no one with more than 3. Hummel fouled out, and JJ, Moore, and Chally finished with 4 each of Purdue's 28. Calasan also had 20 points.

I smashed a remote beyond repair over this game.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=283332509

 

[Novachp]

Let me try to address the "big picture", as you call it.

Other than the 4-5 real blue bloods (UNC, UK, Kansas, and Duke), reaching the FF is a bit of a crap shoot. Jay Wright never made it past the Sweet Sixteen before winning it all last year. How many years has he been at Nova? Many times it is the sting of losing one year that propels the now older kids into a stronger tournament performance the next. It also takes a combination of the right kids (not all 5*) who can stay healthy, plus the right NCAA draw, and a lot of luck. Luck being the biggest factor here.

Painter has enough coaching skill to manage the game well enough to make the FF. He has repeatedly played national championship teams to the wire. See the Florida NCAAT games. See Villanova this year. I can also site the respect he gets from his peers and his accolades coaching international teams. His current string of top-10/top-15 rankings also indicates he is a good coach.

Still in question is Painter's ability to recruit the right kids. With better administrative backing, his recruiting is miles ahead of where it was 5 years ago. He continues to improve his techniques and approach, and continues to improve his selection of kids. I hold a wait and see attitude on this because the current team appears to have enough talent and drive to get there. What they need is the right "luck" in getting opponents that match up poorly against our talent.

Bottom line/big picture: Painter is far above an average coach, but needs the FF credentials to convince people who don't watch or know the game.

Just saw this... FWIW, Nova made the Final Four in 2009 under Wright.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Just saw this... FWIW, Nova made the Final Four in 2009 under Wright.

Was that the Regional Final where Villanova outlasted Pitt?

 

[Novachp]

Was that the Regional Final where Villanova outlasted Pitt?

Yes it was... Scottie Reynolds forever in nova lore! We like buzzer beaters.

• 2001–2004 Seasons: NIT
• 2004–05 Season: Sweet Sixteen
• 2005–06 Season: Elite Eight
• 2006–07 Season: First Round
• 2007–08 Season: Sweet Sixteen
• 2008–09 Season: Final Four
• 2009–10: Second Round Upset
• 2014–15: Another Second Round Upset
• 2015–16: National Champions

Make no mistake though... Jay was under a lot of heat. after 2009 he openly says he took some players that he shouldn't have from a culture perspective and it cost him (went 13-19 one year). The most heartbreaking loss in the tourny for me was the NC state loss in the round of 32 as a 1 seed the year before last (2014-2015). That team was talented. Add Darrun Hilliard (with the Pistons now) and Jayvaugh Pinkston (a 5 *power forward out of NY) to last year's team--less Brunson, and you can see talent wise they were loaded. The difference was the growth of the team defensively, shot selection, 2 point guards (Arcidiacono and Brunson), overall toughness and EXPERIENCE.

Some Fans are crazy sometimes as you know. In retrospect, how could anyone question his system and program, but they did... There is a LOT to be said for stability in the head coaching ranks. Look at the major players. Virtually no one is a Johnny come lately.

You guys are really good and I think Painter is better that what some folks say (but he too is growing and learning). I know you all would like another shot at us.... me too (be nice on a neutral floor---man that is a great home court you have there!).

Finally, and then I will get off your board (!), how about Butler???? that was a heck of a win. Also, I mentioned on your ND thread--congrats on that game, pretty much a cc of how our game with them went.

Best of luck in conference gang

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Yes it was... Scottie Reynolds forever in nova lore! We like buzzer beaters.

• 2001–2004 Seasons: NIT
• 2004–05 Season: Sweet Sixteen
• 2005–06 Season: Elite Eight
• 2006–07 Season: First Round
• 2007–08 Season: Sweet Sixteen
• 2008–09 Season: Final Four
• 2009–10: Second Round Upset
• 2014–15: Another Second Round Upset
• 2015–16: National Champions

Make no mistake though... Jay was under a lot of heat. after 2009 he openly says he took some players that he shouldn't have from a culture perspective and it cost him (went 13-19 one year). The most heartbreaking loss in the tourny for me was the NC state loss in the round of 32 as a 1 seed the year before last (2014-2015). That team was talented. Add Darrun Hilliard (with the Pistons now) and Jayvaugh Pinkston (a 5 *power forward out of NY) to last year's team--less Brunson, and you can see talent wise they were loaded. The difference was the growth of the team defensively, shot selection, 2 point guards (Arcidiacono and Brunson), overall toughness and EXPERIENCE.

Some Fans are crazy sometimes as you know. In retrospect, how could anyone question his system and program, but they did... There is a LOT to be said for stability in the head coaching ranks. Look at the major players. Virtually no one is a Johnny come lately.

You guys are really good and I think Painter is better that what some folks say (but he too is growing and learning). I know you all would like another shot at us.... me too (be nice on a neutral floor---man that is a great home court you have there!).

Finally, and then I will get off your board (!), how about Butler???? that was a heck of a win. Also, I mentioned on your ND thread--congrats on that game, pretty much a cc of how our game with them went.

Best of luck in conference gang

Thanks for the thoughts and perspective....that 2006 Villanova team was darn good, too, IIRC. I'd love to see a rematch this year......say.....in Phoenix?

I expect the Wildcats to be up there all year....best of luck to them and the Boilers....should be an interesting rest of the season.

 

[Dryfly88]

Yes it was... Scottie Reynolds forever in nova lore! We like buzzer beaters.

• 2001–2004 Seasons: NIT
• 2004–05 Season: Sweet Sixteen
• 2005–06 Season: Elite Eight
• 2006–07 Season: First Round
• 2007–08 Season: Sweet Sixteen
• 2008–09 Season: Final Four
• 2009–10: Second Round Upset
• 2014–15: Another Second Round Upset
• 2015–16: National Champions

Make no mistake though... Jay was under a lot of heat. after 2009 he openly says he took some players that he shouldn't have from a culture perspective and it cost him (went 13-19 one year). The most heartbreaking loss in the tourny for me was the NC state loss in the round of 32 as a 1 seed the year before last (2014-2015). That team was talented. Add Darrun Hilliard (with the Pistons now) and Jayvaugh Pinkston (a 5 *power forward out of NY) to last year's team--less Brunson, and you can see talent wise they were loaded. The difference was the growth of the team defensively, shot selection, 2 point guards (Arcidiacono and Brunson), overall toughness and EXPERIENCE.

Some Fans are crazy sometimes as you know. In retrospect, how could anyone question his system and program, but they did... There is a LOT to be said for stability in the head coaching ranks. Look at the major players. Virtually no one is a Johnny come lately.

You guys are really good and I think Painter is better that what some folks say (but he too is growing and learning). I know you all would like another shot at us.... me too (be nice on a neutral floor---man that is a great home court you have there!).

Finally, and then I will get off your board (!), how about Butler???? that was a heck of a win. Also, I mentioned on your ND thread--congrats on that game, pretty much a cc of how our game with them went.

Best of luck in conference gang

Please accept this as a genuine question and not as any criticism, I'm seriously interested: How do you happen to come upon a thread on page 3 that mentions Villanova? Is there some sort of software that filters for Villanova or Nova? The title of the thread is "Crickets" so that is why I ask.

I really don't mean any offense, I'm just curious how/why you would find a random mention of your team on another teams board? If not software, do you read every thread from teams you have played so far?

There have been some MSU fans that "monitor" the board, but there is a lot of history there. I found it interesting that a Nova fan would pick up on a mention of their team/coach.

 

[Novachp]

Please accept this as a genuine question and not as any criticism, I'm seriously interested: How do you happen to come upon a thread on page 3 that mentions Villanova? Is there some sort of software that filters for Villanova or Nova? The title of the thread is "Crickets" so that is why I ask.

I really don't mean any offense, I'm just curious how/why you would find a random mention of your team on another teams board? If not software, do you read every thread from teams you have played so far?

There have been some MSU fans that "monitor" the board, but there is a lot of history there. I found it interesting that a Nova fan would pick up on a mention of their team/coach.

No offense taken. Occasionally I go back to threads of opponents and just type "nova" in the search bar at the top. You guys have a very good board. I like the intelligent conversations and occasionally chime in.