Atrocious
- Thread starter Old Gold n Black
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I think that has been in play in some of those losses we all recall. They allowed the 5s that were smaller to climb over the Purdue bigs in North TExas and St Peters and fear that could be in store down the road. There were other issues like overhelping in North TExas, but they have allowed smaller teams to be physical. I'm guessing a lot of those refs have a little man syndrome when they see Haas or Zach...
No. That is not true. Bone is here through the highs and lows. He agrees, he disagrees, he celebrates, he grieves, he gloats when he's right, he eats crow when he's wrong, he discusses, he'll be cordial to those he disagrees with as long as they're not jerks, he has paid his dues, he is always welcome here.
I don't really think we had any issues with our 4's & 5's against St Peters our guards played like crap from offense to losing their man on D or not defending the hedge. Our guards got us beat against St Peters.
In the history of basketball, when has a player complained about being fouled, then after thinking it, the ref decides the player was right and calls a foul? Refs miss fouls all the time. But OK, let's say he was fouled on that one shot. What's the reason Purdue missed all those others down the stretch, many of which were wide open looks?
Appreciatecha! And just for the record, I hate iu with every fiber of my being. As I've said before, if iu were playing Isis, I'd cheer for Isis......
IU loves @bonefish1 !
"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven."
Understood. We love you anyway. There are a lot of disingenuous people in this world. @bonefish1 is not one of them.
I don’t expect the ref to reverse his noncall in that situation but much like a coach, DJJ was trying to get the next call, drawing awareness to what was going on. I simply provided this one example because SC suggested that no shots were effected by fouls. Well, there’s one and you have to think there were probably more. The other point is that because the contact caused a brick rebound that led to a NW runout. Maybe Jenkins goes to the line and hits 3 FTs, slows down the frantic game, and prevents transition points for NW. Again, the poor officiating isn’t the only reason they lost the game, but to pretend it had no effect on the outcome is factually inaccurate.
A ref probably hears "He fouled me!" about 100 times a game. Do they get them all? No. Do they miss some, maybe at important junctures, sure. But, possibly missing a call on a missed 3 isn't the reason Purdue was outscored 19-5 to close the game. Even if Jenkins hits it, that's a 19-8 finish. Purdue simply didn't execute and their reason for not executing wasn't the refs. Are the refs the reason NU did execute down the stretch?
Not calling moving screens had a lot to do with Northwestern scoring so easily.
If you guys think you were screwed by the refs against a not very physical NW team, when 17 fouls were called on each team, you’re gonna hate Maryland .
They don’t seem as big up front with the likes of Nicholson and Beran doing dirty work time after time, but we’ll see. The guards worry me though with Scott. If they call a couple fouls early on Morton, we’re in trouble.
The degree of roughness and physicality was normal for a Big Ten game. What was not normal were the dirty tactics such as "red rover arm locks" which were used repeatedly on Zach for free throws. I have not seen that used by any other Big Ten team. Zach expects to get an elbow in the chest from each side, but not hand clasping. Also, Boie kicks when he shoots. Nailed Zach in the shins twice and wanted a foul on Zach. We expect hard, physical, fouling plays. Not the dirty stuff that Collins encourages.
Lack of focus or focus on other things could lead to miscues. What I told Kim at the very start of the game or VERY early was Zach getting the ball and ready to score with a foul to prevent the field goal. Now each half you get a few freebies to foul and prevent a basket and if done immediately when in a bad spot and not in the action of shooting., you can foul 12 times to prevent baskets or maybe 24 points not counting if baskets and fouled in teh act. Another possession very early in the game and the obvious foul to prevent a basket.
Zach is the center of the offense and so teams know that he is going to see the ball. Zach probably shoots 65-70% from the field and maybe 70-75% from the line. Zach in theory could lose a minimum of 12 points a half due to fouling and not shooting and then if in bonus could miss 1/4 and what if that was the first shot on the 7th, 8th, and 9th shots of each half? The strategy is actually pretty sound as long as you have the bodies....OR the refs don't call it. So Hack a Zach or foul trying to get the ball until it becomes a problem...i fit does...
I've seen them play a few times. Reese is a better player than Nicholson, but would seem to be a much better matchup for Edey. He's about TJD sized and won't be able to move Edey at all.
They are a track meet, slash and press team that will test Purdue's guards in the pick and roll; Young can really get going. Two diametrically contrasting styles; oughta be interesting.
You do realize that Purdue and Maryland have already met this year, right?
In the previous meeting, Purdue had an early 15 point lead but couldn't close the door. Their aggressive full court press caused issues (no surprise), but there weren't any shenanigans and egregious calls like the NW game. Reese played the game of his life against Edey, and I doubt he replicates that effort. More than anyone else, Jamir Young is the guy who worries me. He can really light it up.
We'll see how Purdue responds with this one. This would mark the the 7th time I this season Purdue has seen a full court trapping defense per my count (W Virginia, Iowa, Michigan, Rutgers, NW, and Maryland). IIRC Florida State used it quite a bit against us too. The more we see it, the better we will get a handling it. Purdue has 4 days to prepare for Maryland, so I don't think the press will be as big an issue as some are making it out to be.
@HoosierfanJM Hooiser fan is correct in that they will spread you out and dribble drive...and their press will stil be a question mark. Purdue I think did a good job on Young and as you said Reese had a couple of push shots that went in. Scott has generally been a thorn in the side for Purdue and I know in his mind he thought he was fouled at Purdue last year???? on the last possession in which he thought Maryland should have won. Personally, I want to believe that Purdue although some struggles is "okay" with the individual D for each player and doesn't give a straight line to the basket for Maryland.
That leads me to the 2-2-1 zone press that Maryland runs a bit tighter in width than some. Last night Nebraska handled Rutgers zone press and was in scoring position with 22/23 seconds on the clock and it seems Purdue has been 17/20 seconds and of all the positions that need clock...a low post 5 is it.
Now Matt likes a balanced court for rebounding primarily, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if Purdue at times was unbalanced and placed a person near a person that was a mismatch and cleared the space a bit when Maryland morphs into man having that desired defender on who you want. Course that is much harder to do with 5 instead of a two man game like Simpson and Teske ran against Purdue where TEske screened for Simpson and Simpson came off hard making Haas to defend him and then played cat and mouse with Hass trying to prevent Simpson from getting to the rim until Teske has Simpson's defender and shot the gap in the lane for an 8 foot shot. Actually, there are a few times an unbalanced court might allow a person a bit more freedom to take his defender to the basket...particularly if the defender has some fouls and is going to play the offensive player soft
Did they hit the shots for them? No. Did they allow them to do things that made it easier to execute? Absolutely. You get good looks when guys can set moving picks. You can rebound when you’re allowed to climb over someone’s back or hold or push guys out of the way. Furst got absolutely mugged in the 2nd half. It’s also a lot easier to create turnovers when you can slap, bump, hold, or chop guys. Hell, on the play that Bardo proclaimed was the “play of the game for Northwestern” it was very obvious that the NW big moved his feet to push/hold Smith from getting out to Audige. Again, the refs were not the only factor, but they were a factor. I fully expect them to be tomorrow night too. Hopefully, Purdue will be a little tougher, keep their cool, and knock down some shots.
Unfortunately, it seems like we're getting worse at handling the press. I believe we've had 16 TOs in each of the last 3 games. That's not sustainable.
1) Purdue should be focused.
2) Purdue knows it is coming.
3) I think Zach had 6 TOs last game and maybe a couple more teh game before and so the TOs are not always against the zone presses.
4) Purdue spent a lot of time on the press preseason knowing who they would be playing. Perhaps Matt thought they retained more than they did and have spent extra time on it now?
Spot on. Totally agree. I think this is what most of us are thinking when we blame the refs for an L. I'm not sure why some people on this board try to make it a binary issue (like saying the refs have NOTHING to do with an outcome, or that refs have EVERYTHING to do with it).
In a nutshell, I usually don't bitch about reffing unless the game is obviously influenced by egregious calls.
In your opinion do we have the personnel to replicate Nebraska's success against the press?
Ya know I was thinking about that. My first thought was that Braden was too short to gover over the top of the zone, but a couple of times . Not sure how tall Hoiberg is, but he appears to be short. Nebraska swung it quickly on teh second pass and hit the diagonal pass and to be quite honest I was thinking was Rutgers not tuned in or did that pass just have more room and get there quicker...even from Hoiberg? I was mostly watching to see if Nebraska gives it away since I caught it with about 10 minutes to go.
I think Rutgers may have been in a 1-2-2 or odd front, but I'm unsure since Purdue wasn't playing. We know Maryland has ran the 2-2-1 (which fell out of flavor for a few years). AGainst any zone...or zone press. I personally prefer to put people where nobody is. So odd fronts have 2 with onelagging behind the other until across half court if reversal is needed and a trap may be in play.
In all zones you like to attack the middle and look opposite...many times a 45 degree pass. If you start by placing people in teh gaps...you are already causing the zone to shift and match up with your alignment somewhat. Maryland is not spread out and somewhat tight I was thinking covering up the middle of the floor to invite you up the side where the side line as usual is in play. If you get the ball in the middle, he needs to pass quickly because two are coming up on both sides of him and waiting for Fletcher and Braden to get just over the half court line may leave little on the clock. Course if you break it quick...who has the ball and can that person attack successfully. Zach as great as he is...is still slow compared to some and if you can get it across and attack without some amount of success, you have eliminated Zach's ability since you are playing without him. Soooo, there are reasons other than to get TOs to employ a zone press such as to eliminate the time that Zach could get the ball.
Years ago I asked Vince Edwards if they did this and that in attacking various zone presses and his answer was...we've tried all that. Sometimes you know what you want to do and what the other team is trying to do and you just have to have the players make it happen. We shall see tomorrow, but hopefully Purdue is focused and handles the press just fine. Make your shots and the team plays against Purdue's better defense and may not be able to set up a zone press as much.
As crazy as this sounds, maybe we try Morton as the point of attack? If Braden has trouble seeing over the double, perhaps there is a way to incorporate Ethan in the center with Braden staying on the diagonal as a pressure release. Not sure who else we have to bring the ball up. Jenkins isn't much taller than Smith.
I was really hoping that Brian Waddell would be ready this year to absorb some guard/wing responsibilities. He still seems to be tentative on that knee, and didn't put on as much muscle as expected. Maybe next season?
one thing I notice is too much dribble vs it and a lackadaisical attitude towards it
Braden needs to be quicker, but not hurrying and running into traps. Still, I’ve seen teams put their best ball handler across half court and get the ball to him to attack quite successfully, which is what I think you are describing
Boy I miss Ivey against the press. Seemed like once he got the ball they just backed off.
Purdue didn't lose against Northwestern because they couldn't handle the press. Smith had one more turnover than his average. Edey had 6 of the 16 turnovers, none of which had anyting to do with the press.
Purdue lost because they couldn't make shots in the second half. Morton made the lone basket that wasn't scored by Edey.
Purdue lost because they couldn't make shots in the second half. Morton made the lone basket that wasn't scored by Edey.
My guess is Waddell will never have a meaningful role in Purdue Basketball.
Nah. I think he carves out more of role a couple of years from now.
Remember he's coming off an acl and wasnt a highly rated guy to begin with.
Exactly and that's why he probably won't play much at Purdue. Loyer and Smith aren't going anywhere over the next three years. Heide will be coming off a redshirt, Morton is back and Newman can come back and we'll be adding Colvin. We already have a commitment from a shooting guard and small forward the following year.
Unless things go to hell pretty quickly there won't be minutes for a guy like Waddell.
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