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“Secret” Scrimmage with Cincinnati

This isn't the Cincinnati team it was several years ago. If Purdue couldn't beat this team we'd be in real trouble.
Also not the Cincinnati team it was last year.

They brought back their top three scorers from last season (two of them being over 13ppg)

In the transfer portal added Phinisee, Nolley (10 ppg starter at Memphis), and a 11pt/8rpg big man from ODU

Their three man freshman class consists of two top 150 players and a 7 footer.

Not exactly a cupcake. Very encouraging that Purdue was able to get up by 21 at one point in this game while breaking in so many new players of their own
 
Morton shot 46% from three. Your ‘slightly better shot than Nojel’ comment is either misinformed or intellectually dishonest
Your are looking through a very...very... small window. Don't be dishonest with the whole equation.
First off Morton he shot 44% at a less than 1 attempt clip per game. He also shoots less than 1 attempt from 2 per game.

You are limiting my comment of "Shot" to a 3 point shot.....which doesn't shock me to meet your narrative. Yes, both are very limited offensively players, but good/great defenders.

Also, let me know when Morton can avg more points than NE.
 
I'm not sure I agree with you on Morton. He can hit the open shot and not miss an easy layup like Nojel.

Is he a pure scorer? No. Is he an offensive liability like Nojel? No.
You're not looking at the whole equation. He shoots less than 2 attempts a game from either 3 or 2. He is a liability on the offensive side or he would take additional shots. Even, NE avg more per game and he was offensively challenged.

Do you really feel like he isn't offensively challenged. Numbers can't and don't lie. I like Morton, but definitely not for offense.
 
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Your are looking through a very...very... small window. Don't be dishonest with the whole equation.
First off Morton he shot 44% at a less than 1 attempt clip per game. He also shoots less than 1 attempt from 2 per game.
Would you prefer him taking shots over Edey, Williams, Ivey, Sasha, Gillis, or Hunter last year? In his 14mpg last year he was there to defend, facilitate, and knock down the open shots he got. He did exactly that
 
Would you prefer him taking shots over Edey, Williams, Ivey, Sasha, Gillis, or Hunter last year? In his 14mpg last year he was there to defend, facilitate, and knock down the open shots he got. He did exactly that
According to one poster he shot better from 3 than all of the players you just named.

Yes, NE was utilized the same way. Defend first and facilitate or create second.
 
Would you prefer him taking shots over Edey, Williams, Ivey, Sasha, Gillis, or Hunter last year? In his 14mpg last year he was there to defend, facilitate, and knock down the open shots he got. He did exactly that

I so agree. I don't know why some don't ever get that not all players are there to be top scoring threats. Matt Painter was on his podcast talking about this exact thing.
 
Would you prefer him taking shots over Edey, Williams, Ivey, Sasha, Gillis, or Hunter last year? In his 14mpg last year he was there to defend, facilitate, and knock down the open shots he got. He did exactly that
Also, NE played on a very talented and shot making team. Played more minutes as well.
 
I so agree. I don't know why some don't ever get that not all players are there to be top scoring threats. Matt Painter was on his podcast talking about this exact thing.
This was exactly my point...I agree and so was NE. Both are very good to great defenders.
 
This was exactly my point...I agree and so was NE. Both are very good to great defenders.
The big difference is that he has to be accounted for by the defense, whereas they would just back off of NE and dare him to shoot. Morton is only limited on offense by quantity, not quality and by that he makes the other players around him better, especially since he has really good passing skills.
 
I like Gillis, but furst and Kaufman are much better players. Painter is too loyal sometimes. Morton and Newman should have played more last year and should have cut hunters and sashas minutes.
Too loyal sometimes? The last thing Painter is loyal to would be playing time. Just ask Newman.

Too much is being made of TKR (and now First) vs Gillis. All will help the program win games this year. I guess the difference is that I trust a coach who's been a NABC Coach of the Year and four time Big Ten coach of the year to figure out the right combination of player rotations.
 
The big difference is that he has to be accounted for by the defense, whereas they would just back off of NE and dare him to shoot. Morton is only limited on offense by quantity, not quality and by that he makes the other players around him better, especially since he has really good passing skills.
I see your point, but If he can't get shots off from 3 like his stats show..then he's definitely offensively challenged.

NE could at least create a shot for himself or get his body in position to score. I like Morton for his defense, but let's not make him look like an offensive juggernaut.
 
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I see your point, but If he can't get shots off from 3 like his stats show..then he's definitely offensively challenged.

NE could at least create a shot for himself or get his body in position to score. I like Morton for his defense, but let's not make him look like an offensive juggernaut.
I could not disagree more. Morton took shots only when they presented themselves. He didn’t hunt bad shots. And his ABILITY to shoot prevented his man from collapsing into JI, Tre, Zach, etc.

He makes the offense run better. Nojel did the exact opposite.
 
While it is not accurate to compare him to Nojel, the idea that any case is being made that he is a genuine shooter of any sort is equally misinformed or dishonest.
On what data would you base the evaluation that he's not a shooter? I can point to Ethan shooting 44% (not 46%, sorry) on relatively low volume volume (7th most attempts on the team). Nojel was a 19% career three point shooter and didn't make a three as a sophomore and junior.

Where is your data? I can understand the view that Ethan is not a genuine scorer, in that he's not going to create his own shot or be a primary scoring option, but to compare him to Nojel or to say that he's not a shooter is just lazy.
 
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Your are looking through a very...very... small window. Don't be dishonest with the whole equation.
First off Morton he shot 44% at a less than 1 attempt clip per game. He also shoots less than 1 attempt from 2 per game.

You are limiting my comment of "Shot" to a 3 point shot.....which doesn't shock me to meet your narrative. Yes, both are very limited offensively players, but good/great defenders.

Also, let me know when Morton can avg more points than NE.
How do you make the jump from the fact (it's a fact, not an assumption), that Ethan was not called upon to score last year on a team that was loaded with ball heavy scoring options in Jaden, Zach, Tre and Sasha, to the assumption that he's offensively inept?

It's incredibly intellectually lazy to compare him to Nojel.
 
How do you make the jump from the fact (it's a fact, not an assumption), that Ethan was not called upon to score last year on a team that was loaded with ball heavy scoring options in Jaden, Zach, Tre and Sasha, to the assumption that he's offensively inept?

It's incredibly intellectually lazy to compare him to Nojel.
I'm not being lazy for comparing the 2. They're are utilized the same way in CMP's system and NE took better advantage of it or CMP would've played Morton more...right? Considering how bad our guards not named Ivey had been playing. NE played on a loaded guard team.

Lazy is not stating NE was on one of, if not the best guard oriented teams we've had in a long time.

Look, I hope I'm wrong and Morton blows up. Regardless, difference of opinions.
 
You're not looking at the whole equation. He shoots less than 2 attempts a game from either 3 or 2. He is a liability on the offensive side or he would take additional shots. Even, NE avg more per game and he was offensively challenged.

Do you really feel like he isn't offensively challenged. Numbers can't and don't lie. I like Morton, but definitely not for offense.

I never said he was an offensive juggernaut. But he can hit an outside shot at a nice clip when he's open, which is something Nojel could NEVER do. And that's not so much different than Gillis. On the other side, he's not a liability on defense like IT was. In fact, he became a pretty darn good defender last season (ie, shutting down Texas guards).

Is he going to average double digits? Probably not. Is he going to bring solid play, maybe score mid to high single digits, while playing good D on the opponent's 1 or 2 guard as a defensive mismatch with his height? Probably so. And no one's going to be able to intentionally sag off of him on D and double team one of our guys, which is exactly what happened with Nojel.
 
I'm not being lazy for comparing the 2. They're are utilized the same way in CMP's system and NE took better advantage of it or CMP would've played Morton more...right? Considering how bad our guards not named Ivey had been playing. NE played on a loaded guard team.

Lazy is not stating NE was on one of, if not the best guard oriented teams we've had in a long time.

Look, I hope I'm wrong and Morton blows up. Regardless, difference of opinions.
Difference of opinion is fine but in every post you're stating information that is simply wrong. As a sophomore, the only guards that Nojel played with were Carsen, Cline and freshmen Sasha and EHJ. There was no one who was a threat to take his minutes and Carsen and Cline were so ball dominant and such great shooters that they could generally get away with Nojel being extremely limited offensively.

I have no idea how you translate that to 'Nojel was better offensively because he played more', when Ethan was playing behind Jaden, senior Sasha and senior EHJ. Nojel was also elite defensively, which contributed to his playing time, but the primary factor was that there was no one else ready to take those minutes at the third guard position.

Agree that we'll find out soon if defenses are able to ignore Morton the way that they did Nojel his junior year. I'm happy to come back and say I was wrong if they do.
 
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I never said he was an offensive juggernaut. But he can hit an outside shot at a nice clip when he's open, which is something Nojel could NEVER do. And that's not so much different than Gillis. On the other side, he's not a liability on defense like IT was. In fact, he became a pretty darn good defender last season (ie, shutting down Texas guards).

Is he going to average double digits? Probably not. Is he going to bring solid play, maybe score mid to high single digits, while playing good D on the opponent's 1 or 2 guard as a defensive mismatch with his height? Probably so. And no one's going to be able to intentionally sag off of him on D and double team one of our guys, which is exactly what happened with Nojel.
I should have read your post first, you said it better than me. Amen to all of that.
 
On what data would you base the evaluation that he's not a shooter? I can point to Ethan shooting 44% (not 46%, sorry) on relatively low volume volume (7th most attempts on the team). Nojel was a 19% career three point shooter and didn't make a three as a sophomore and junior.

Where is your data? I can understand the view that Ethan is not a genuine scorer, in that he's not going to create his own shot or be a primary scoring option, but to compare him to Nojel or to say that he's not a shooter is just lazy.
Come on, virtually anybody is a "shooter" relative to Nojel...no need to even debate that.

Morton made some shots last year, but, the notion that he is a shooter of any sort is just not a case that can be made...it was questioned coming in...and, while he did hit shots at a better than expected clip last year, it is not as if Purdue was running things to get him looks or that they would either...sure, like any competent high-level Div-I perimeter player, he can make an open shot more often than not...awesome (and, better as we have established than someone else)...but, again, not as if Purdue is running things for him or counting on him to make shots (aside of some open looks that he may get on occasion).

He is not a genuine scorer...there is no debating it...and, THAT was the concern/issue cited regarding him, which in turn led to some alternate discussion about his ability to make a post-entry pass effectively (or, somehow at an elite level apparently) and that he had a stellar A/T ratio (never mind that it was just more than 1 Assist per game and less than one Turnover per game and in limited minutes)...now it has morphed into him being a "shooter" because his limited numbers a year ago were better than a guy that literally and genuinely could not shoot the basketball (never mind did not even know which hand to shoot it with).
 
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Come on, virtually anybody is a "shooter" relative to Nojel...no need to even debate that.

Morton made some shots last year, but, the notion that he is a shooter of any sort is just not a case that can be made...it was questioned coming in...and, while he did hit shots at a better than expected clip last year, it is not as if Purdue was running things to get him looks or that they would either...sure, like any competent high-level Div-I perimeter player, he can make an open shot more often than not...awesome (and, better as we have established than someone else)...but, again, not as if Purdue is running things for him or counting on him to make shots (aside of some open looks that he may get on occasion).

He is not a genuine scorer...there is no debating it...and, THAT was the concern/issue cited regarding him, which in turn led to some alternate discussion about his ability to make a post-entry pass effectively (or, somehow at an elite level apparently) and that he had a stellar A/T ratio (never mind that it was just more than 1 Assist per game and less than one Turnover per game and in limited minutes)...now it has morphed into him being a "shooter" because his limited numbers a year ago were better than a guy that literally and genuinely could not shoot the basketball (never mind did not even know which hand to shoot it with).
Yet you felt the need to jump in and comment when I stated that a comparison to Nojel offensively was wildly inaccurate.

I don't think anyone compared Ethan to Cline, Mathias, Loyer, etc. as an elite shooter, but he's comparable to Gillis, Eifert, etc. as a player who can knock down a high percentage of open shots. If you don't consider those guys to be shooters that's fine, but there are a bunch of teams that don't have guys like that who you can't leave open because they'll knock down more than 40% of open looks.
 
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Yet you felt the need to jump in and comment when I stated that a comparison to Nojel offensively was wildly inaccurate.

I don't think anyone compared Ethan to Cline, Mathias, Loyer, etc. as an elite shooter, but he's comparable to Gillis, Eifert, etc. as a player who can knock down a high percentage of open shots. If you don't consider those guys to be shooters that's fine, but there are a bunch of teams that don't have guys like that who you can't leave open because they'll knock down more than 40% of open looks.
He was scoreless on Saturday...my guess is that it was not because they denied him the ball from behind the arc. Maybe he made great passes to Zach though while he was on the floor?

Last year he made open shots....the year before, he did not....coming into Purdue, he did not...hopefully he will hit them again this year, but, I stand by the notion that he is not a guy that is scaring opponents at all, and, that he adds very little offensively on a team where it is going to need guys that can score.

I did not disagree with your thoughts on the comparison to Nojel, nor did I jump in on anything...you asked me why I was ignoring his shooting percentage last year, and, I told you why I was...small sample size...and, he has not shown an ability to consistently do it before Purdue, and, at Purdue. It would be great if he could shoot the ball along the lines of what those guys did again and moving forward...it would help Purdue a ton if it were the case, but, I want to see it again before I put much credence in it, much less get excited about it at all.
 
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He was scoreless on Saturday...my guess is that it was not because they denied him the ball from behind the arc. Maybe he made great passes to Zach though while he was on the floor?

Last year he made open shots....the year before, he did not....coming into Purdue, he did not...hopefully he will hit them again this year, but, I stand by the notion that he is not a guy that is scaring opponents at all, and, that he adds very little offensively on a team where it is going to need guys that can score.

I did not disagree with your thoughts on the comparison to Nojel, nor did I jump in on anything...you asked me why I was ignoring his shooting percentage last year, and, I told you why I was...small sample size...and, he has not shown an ability to consistently do it before Purdue, and, at Purdue. It would be great if he could shoot the ball along the lines of what those guys did again and moving forward...it would help Purdue a ton if it were the case, but, I want to see it again before I put much credence in it, much less get excited about it at all.
This conversation with you is exhausting for me. Are you really saying that they needed him to score in that scrimmage and he didn’t?
 
This conversation with you is exhausting for me. Are you really saying that they needed him to score in that scrimmage and he didn’t?...
He can't score, whether they need him to or not is irrelevant...nor was it at any point in this thread what was discussed. On that point, however, I am hard pressed to think of many teams that don't need guys to score at all...that they are just SO good, that, they can play 4-on-5 at the offensive end of the floor.
 
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He can't score, whether they need him to or not is irrelevant...nor was it at any point in this thread what was discussed. On that point, however, I am hard pressed to think of many teams that don't need guys to score at all...that they are just SO good, that, they can play 4-on-5 at the offensive end of the floor.
Again, exhausting. You never, ever show any real data, just opinions. Do you not care that none of your opinions are supported by facts? I don't mean this to be insulting, but has no one ever explained correlation versus causation to you?
 
He can't score, whether they need him to or not is irrelevant...nor was it at any point in this thread what was discussed. On that point, however, I am hard pressed to think of many teams that don't need guys to score at all...that they are just SO good, that, they can play 4-on-5 at the offensive end of the floor.
His 3 PT % says otherwise.
 
His 3 PT % says otherwise.
Yes, his 2 ppg last year, and, 0.6 the year before(thus, career 1.7) say otherwise as well I guess...I mean, to be fair, he did actually score (except for the handful of games where he actually did not).

Purdue played 37 games a year ago...he made more than 1 shot 8 times...I can't wait to hear the arguments after this year if he can just do that 15 times and doubles his scoring as a result about what a leap he made offensively.
 
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Yes, his 2 ppg last year, and, 0.6 the year before(thus, career 1.7) say otherwise as well I guess...I mean, to be fair, he did actually score (except for the handful of games where he actually did not).

Purdue played 37 games a year ago...he made more than 1 shot 8 times...I can't wait to hear the arguments after this year if he can just do that 15 times and doubles his scoring as a result about what a leap he made offensively.
So you don’t understand correlation versus causation.
 
Yes, his 2 ppg last year, and, 0.6 the year before(thus, career 1.7) say otherwise as well I guess...I mean, to be fair, he did actually score (except for the handful of games where he actually did not).

Purdue played 37 games a year ago...he made more than 1 shot 8 times...I can't wait to hear the arguments after this year if he can just do that 15 times and doubles his scoring as a result about what a leap he made offensively.
Again, his 3 PT % says he CAN score if needed.
 
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Again, his 3 PT % says he CAN score if needed.
No, it says that he scored on occasion last year when wide open (largely because of defending the other 4 guys on the floor instead)...he has shown no ability to get his own shot, or, get to the basket.
 
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Yes, his 2 ppg last year, and, 0.6 the year before(thus, career 1.7) say otherwise as well I guess...I mean, to be fair, he did actually score (except for the handful of games where he actually did not).

Purdue played 37 games a year ago...he made more than 1 shot 8 times...I can't wait to hear the arguments after this year if he can just do that 15 times and doubles his scoring as a result about what a leap he made offensively.
He was the 8th-9th man in the rotation playing 14 minutes per game. If they wanted someone in that spot to come in and put up shots they would’ve stuck with Newman

Last years championship game had 30mpg starters on both teams who scored 5 or fewer ppg

Morton will likely double his minutes from last year and could easily give you a line of 5.5ppg/3.5rpg/4apg and 1+spg while maintaining his above average %s

That’s very Paul Mulcahy-ish (career line of 6.3/3.3/3.4) which I’d love out of Morton
 
He was the 8th-9th man in the rotation playing 14 minutes per game. If they wanted someone in that spot to come in and put up shots they would’ve stuck with Newman

Last years championship game had 30mpg starters on both teams who scored 5 or fewer ppg

Morton will likely double his minutes from last year and could easily give you a line of 5.5ppg/3.5rpg/4apg and 1+spg while maintaining his above average %s

That’s very Paul Mulcahy-ish (career line of 6.3/3.3/3.4) which I’d love out of Morton
I can't see him doubling his minutes...he played 14 a game, and, not going to get to 28 a game.

Going from 1.5 apg to 4, even if he doubles his time, would be quite a jump and quite impressive. I don't care so much about what his ppg is...if he can just score...when open, and, on occasion otherwise, it would be helpful. He has shown a nose for the ball at times with respect to rebounding, and, that would be beneficial as well...definitely at the offensive end, and, if it can get them into transition at/from the other end.

If he did that (your suggested numbers), it would be nice for sure...just has not been any indication of it as likely...whereas Mulcahy has produced each year. I am a huge Mulcahy fan...and, in that you referenced him, I looked back at his stats...that guy actually has some very impressive stats.
 
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I can't see him doubling his minutes...he played 14 a game, and, not going to get to 28 a game.

Going from 1.5 apg to 4, even if he doubles his time, would be quite a jump and quite impressive. I don't care so much about what his ppg is...if he can just score...when open, and, on occasion otherwise, it would be helpful. He has shown a nose for the ball at times with respect to rebounding, and, that would be beneficial as well...definitely at the offensive end, and, if it can get them into transition at/from the other end.

If he did that (your suggested numbers), it would be nice for sure...just has not been any indication of it as likely...whereas Mulcahy has produced each year. I am a huge Mulcahy fan...and, in that you referenced him, I looked back at his stats...that guy actually has some very impressive stats.
Don’t be shocked if he’s hitting high 20s with his minutes. It probably won’t be scoring but he’s going to play a huge role on this years squad
 
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