Don't you think we'll need help scoring at the guard position? We will need points from that position to be good in the B1G. The guard play for the top tier will be very good.
“Secret” Scrimmage with Cincinnati
- Thread starter Esox54547
- Start date
The only players on the team who did what you describe last year were Trevion, Jaden, and occasionally Sasha. That's pretty much it. IT didn't. Gillis didn't. Furst didn't. Hunter didn't. Zach really didn't. Newman didn't. So the rest of these guys really shouldn't have been playing?
This group won’t be scoring the 79 points per game that last years group did. I’d guess a handful or so less per game but better defense.
If they get to 74 a game I could see the following playing out
1 - Edey - 18
2 - Newman - 13
3 - Kaufman - 7
4 - Furst - 7
5 - Smith - 7
6 - Loyer - 6.5
7 - Gillis - 6
8 - Morton - 5.5
9 - Jenkins - 4
10 - Waddell - ? (Won’t play every game)
11 - Heide - redshirt
12 - Berg - redshirt
I hope you're right. My worry is our guards will get stagnant on the outside. That's why having Ivey was huge. He could create not only for himself, but others as well.
What's scary is you just named all the guys that are gone. What new faces are going to create that open shot for themselves or others?
Of those guys/names...have any ever not scored, with consistency, or, not displayed the ability to do so? The closest may have been IT...he scored 3x as much and 2x as much during his time, and, was a 40% (or better) shooter from behind the arc.
Look, this ultimately is going nowhere...I am very concerned about Morton's ability to be productive for Purdue offensively, and, don't believe that Purdue can afford a guy playing 20+ minutes and not score...I could be wrong...Morton may prove otherwise and make it moot...or, it will be an issue...only time will tell.
Do I detect the early witch hunt effort to find the next “weak link”? You know, the guy that some of our experts on here think should be on the bench? Every year some folks launch the hunt looking for the one guy that Painter inexplicably has in the starting line up that he should obviously should not. Is Morton the next Eifert or Wheeler? Initially I thought it would be Smith, but his tough balls-out style shut that down, at least so far.
This is just getting interesting.
This is just getting interesting.
I speculated about Auburn firing their football coach in September to deaf ears on this forum.
the main driving force behind my posts is not the details or the contents or the facts. The main driving force is to make people think and open your eyes! Not everything halls the way the internet says it will.
I want people to take the time to research and read more than one source!
I get tired of homers who only look at one side of every issue and never consider the alternatives.
as part of my speculative posts, I look at past history and also other programs. And since I’ve live in 20 different states, I look at Purdue as an outsider would rather than one who grew up in Indiana and all they ever knew about is Indiana high school and Purdue basketball .
I’ve made two speculations. The first is just because Edey has a bunch of preseason accolades doesn’t mean the offense will revolve around him. Past Purdue history backs me up that Purdue’s center is rarely the focus of their offense. And you saw how Tre went from a pre season all American pick to a supporting role player last year.
I also speculated that Tkr is a scoring machine. And that his talent will force painter to start him! And he will become Purdue’s #1 primary scoring option.
I also speculated if Tkr spends the year on the bench and is not the starter, he will consider transferring rather than remain on Purdue’s bench for next year. Top 50 players who have dreams of playing in the nba tend to transfer rather than remain on the bench . Ask yourself why did Harms and Eastern leave Purdue? What’s the logical reason? I know what the media posted. I basically believe both left because they felt Purdue was not going to feature them!
I speculate a lot. But I speculate to open your eyes to possibilities you may not have considered! When I attended Purdue, I was taught to jot down all the potential facts and outcomes no matter how stupid they may appear. And then review all the data before drawing a conclusion.
in chem 116, I once had an answer that was different than the rest of the entire class. Everyone else had the answer that matched the answer in the book. I stood by my answer. Two days later, the facts were revealed. The acid we used was not diluted properly to the percentage of the book. There was a mistake made in what we were provided. I gave my conclusion based on the data I collected. Everyone else gave their conclusion based on what they knew was the correct supposed textbook answer. I was right and everybody else was wrong!
sometimes to look forward, you MUST consider all of the possibilities rather than just the known ones! You must open your eyes! You must think rather than just accept things!
one example: when harms and eastern left, painter said he wished them well. He said the exact same thing when he kicked that other player off the team. I have to believe what painter says publicly is not always what he’s really thinking!
Made all the difference in the world, and, this team does not have "that guy" unfortunately. Tre was largely a "walking bucket" as well, and, while Hunter was not a scoring machine, he could/did score at times as well.
That is a lot of scoring/points that have moved on. Trey is the one guy thus far to display the ability and likelihood of replacing at least some of that.
A combination of Newman/Loyer/Smith...can that give you what Tre and Hunter did? Maybe...but, not a given, and, that is assuming that Trey gives you what Ivey did (which is not a given either certainly).
Last year, Purdue did not need 5 guys to score (it did not count on Isaiah in the first group, or, Morton in the second)...I don't know that they have that luxury this year...8-man rotation where it relied heavily on 5 guys (6 if you count Furst).
Last edited:
No need for a witch hunt, or, to make anyone a scape goat...or declare anyone a weak link.Do I detect the early witch hunt effort to find the next “weak link”? You know, the guy that some of our experts on here think should be on the bench? Every year some folks launch the hunt looking for the one guy that Painter inexplicably has in the starting line up that he should obviously should not. Is Morton the next Eifert or Wheeler? Initially I thought it would be Smith, but his tough balls-out style shut that down, at least so far.
This is just getting interesting.
My thoughts are clear on that I feel that Trey on the bench more than on the floor is not a good thing, and, that Purdue really needs to find a way to have its best players on the floor as much as possible...Furst losing minutes due to a position change is difficult to understand or feel good about given his talent...Trey not playing for whatever reason(s) is difficult to understand for the same reasons. Purdue is loaded up front, but, it needs to find a way to take advantage of that actual advantage.
I have been very clear for a long time on my thoughts on Smith...if anything, I was/am more skeptical of Loyer, but, not because I doubt that he can play or help...I just thought that he would struggle more physically, and, I was not sure about his ability defensively.
We will see how it plays out...I would be flat lying if I said that I did not have similar concerns about Eifert that I do about Morton, but, they are different players and do different things and played with different personnel. That said, I was very much concerned and in the end, there was no need to be, at all obviously. Hopefully the same is true here.
Nobody is hating on Morton when they say they'd prefer to have someone else get more minutes. If you want Morton to play 25-30 minutes you are by default saying you want to limit other players minutes. I don't understand how people don't get this.
Everyone on this board seems to love Smith, Loyer and Newman. They also really like Edey, Gillis, TKR, and Furst. Now add Morton and Jenkins. That's 9 guys. Let's look at the average minutes in conference play for the 1 and 2 guys compared to the 8 and 9 guys last year.
2021-2022
1 Sasha 33.9 minutes
2 Ivey 32.6 minutes
8 Morton 14.1 minutes
9 Furst 10.8 minutes
2020-2021
1 Hunter 30.2
2 Sasha 28.8
8 Thompson 14.4
9 Edey 14.3
Going back to our big year in 2018-2019
1 Edwards 35.4
2 Cline 34.4
8 Hunter 11.6
9 Sasha 10.4
I guess the question is this. If you want Morton to get 25-30 minutes which two guys do you want to be getting 10-15 because that's what we're talking about?
Not seeing guys play. Jenkins may be the easy call but who else? Furst? Gillis? Loyer? Newman?
Everyone on this board seems to love Smith, Loyer and Newman. They also really like Edey, Gillis, TKR, and Furst. Now add Morton and Jenkins. That's 9 guys. Let's look at the average minutes in conference play for the 1 and 2 guys compared to the 8 and 9 guys last year.
2021-2022
1 Sasha 33.9 minutes
2 Ivey 32.6 minutes
8 Morton 14.1 minutes
9 Furst 10.8 minutes
2020-2021
1 Hunter 30.2
2 Sasha 28.8
8 Thompson 14.4
9 Edey 14.3
Going back to our big year in 2018-2019
1 Edwards 35.4
2 Cline 34.4
8 Hunter 11.6
9 Sasha 10.4
I guess the question is this. If you want Morton to get 25-30 minutes which two guys do you want to be getting 10-15 because that's what we're talking about?
Not seeing guys play. Jenkins may be the easy call but who else? Furst? Gillis? Loyer? Newman?
Morton was not a threat to score the basketball his first two years period. That is undeniable. The guys has averaged 1.7 points per game over two years. Last year he averaged 2.4 points. Even more than that is the fact that he only attempted 4.7 shots per 40 minutes last year which was by far the lowest on the team. I like many others on this board thought that he may have been deferring to others on a talented team last year.
The yellow light for me is that during the summer he didn't score much on his trip to Spain. He also didn't shoot much in the fan day scrimmage or score a single point in the Cincinnati scrimmage. They are just scrimmages and exhibitions but it seems like an indication that not much has changed.
Morton may play good defense and add some intangibles but there is enough evidence there for me to predict he's not going to score a lot of points at Purdue and I feel comfortable making that prediction primarily because he doesn't shoot the basketball enough to be an effective scorer. That may be okay and Painter may think he has enough scoring on the floor without him but to try and argue that Morton is a skilled offensive player just doesn't match the evidence.
The yellow light for me is that during the summer he didn't score much on his trip to Spain. He also didn't shoot much in the fan day scrimmage or score a single point in the Cincinnati scrimmage. They are just scrimmages and exhibitions but it seems like an indication that not much has changed.
Morton may play good defense and add some intangibles but there is enough evidence there for me to predict he's not going to score a lot of points at Purdue and I feel comfortable making that prediction primarily because he doesn't shoot the basketball enough to be an effective scorer. That may be okay and Painter may think he has enough scoring on the floor without him but to try and argue that Morton is a skilled offensive player just doesn't match the evidence.
Last edited:
Good point on minutes being a zero sum game. I don’t see Gillis or Furst being impacted at all as Ethan seems unlikely to play material minutes at the 4 and to the displeasure of many fans, I don’t see any of our 4’s taking minutes at the 3.
Carsen and Cline aren’t walking through that door, so unless someone blows up unexpectedly, I don’t see anyone averaging more than the high 20’s in mpg, so you’re looking at 120 minutes between five guys (assuming a 9 man rotation). If you put Jenkins at 20 mpg that’s 25 mpg for Ethan, Smith, Loyer and Newman. Some will take more, some less, but I’d wager they’re all between 22 and 28 mpg.
Matt Painter stated recently that he does not run plays for guys that are not his top scorers. It was worded a bit different, you can look it up. Morton has never been looked at as a main scoring option, even though he can hit shots. Kinda like a Grady Eiffert so to speak. He could hit shots at times when needed, but that was not his main job to come in and be a main scoring option. He had other roles.
The concern with Morton coming out of high school was his ability to compete with the really good athletes he was facing in AAU and at the college level. That's somewhat been the case his first 2 years at Purdue.
Painter probably now realizes what he has in Morton: A bench player who can come in and play some D on a bigger guard, maybe hit an open shot when the opportunity presents itself. But, he's not going to be relied on to score, create, etc.
I won't be surprised if Smith is in the low 30's. If he proves effective at all on the defensive end he will play big minutes simply because he is the best option at the #1. CMP has said as much about him being the primary 1. Scares me to death, but that's how I see it playing out. CMP is very high on him, you can just tell when he talks about Smith and Loyer too.
Yes. I have nothing against him at all and hope my worries are unfounded. But relying on a freshman guard (maybe 2 of them) worries me very much.
We will know soon enough, but my thoughts have been, we are in for treat with the freshman class.
It's also concerning that true freshman, who was injured not that long ago, is going to get the living hell beat out of him by bigger, stronger, faster guards at this level. Hopefully he holds up physically.
If you're talking about Smith, he's 6' and 165. Eric Hunter was 6'4" and 165 last year. I don't remember Eric getting "the living hell beat out of him by bigger, stronger, faster guards at this level".
Secondarily, by all accounts, Smith is an aggressive player who relishes contact. I'm not so worried about what you're describing...
I honestly don’t understand how you (and fans here in general) can conflate ‘wasn’t relied on to score when playing with a bunch of high usage guys’ with ‘is not a skilled offensive player’.
Same thing in AAU and on the overseas trip this summer. Those teams are loaded with guys whose primary objective was to score and in that case the best thing you can do is surround them with low volume guys who take care of the ball, make good decisions, share the ball, make good passes and hit open shots. Those are real offensive skills. I agree that if this team needs Ethan to be one of it's 'go to' scorers it's not ideal because he's a pass first guy, but do you see a world in which, in addition to Zach, that Newman, TKR, Loyer, Furst, etc. aren't relied on to be primary scorers before Ethan?
Last edited:
The question should not be “how many points”, but “how many minutes” instead. IIRC Morton logged a bunch of minutes on those teams. Why? One might think he was the one guy setting up the scorers.
Agree, but I am also trying to figure out who the primary scorers will be after Edey, who is obvious. (I think he has a realistic shot at being a 20ppg/10rpg guy).
TKR reportedly has the skill set, especially in the post when Edey is on the bench, but he still is an unproven redshirt freshman. Furst is another big who could be, but I would think that at least one of the primary options would be a perimeter player. Newman could be, but I haven’t seen the consistency from him. Loyer seems to have the ability, but will he be ready as a true freshman? Smith is a freshman and a facilitator, so I doubt that he will be looked at to score a lot. Gillis and Morton are glue guys and I tend to think that the new transfer will be the same. It should be interesting to watch.
Cincy played Chaminade last night. I wouldn't call that a good test based on last night's game. And I certainly wouldn't say Cincy is a "team to watch this year" just yet...
They are, at least at this point, a top50ish KenPom team and we handled them quite easily (albeit in a scrimmage). If that is an indicator of the season, we should expect to be a top15 or so team.
I'm not saying we don't have the potential to be a top 15 or 20 team. But I'm gonna hold off on any hopes of that until I see this team play much better competition. And one game does not make Cincy a top 50 Kenpom team. And 0 games certainly doesn't make Purdue a 23rd rated Kenpom team. All of it is speculation at this point.
Well of course, but that is the best part of preseason.
And Purdue was 25th before not playing at all... maybe we should just not play all season and see how high we get in KP lol
Maybe we should try a 0-0 regular season after being ranked preseason and see if we get a higher seed!!
We will play tougher competition soon, but what did you think of Braden and Loyer last night?
We will play tougher competition soon, but what did you think of Braden and Loyer last night?
I was very pleased with both of them. I have 2 buddies that we text during all of our games. I told them we are going to love Smith. That said, I still want to see how they do against the competition that we have coming up. Another tune up Friday and then it gets real in a hurry!
I was very pleased with both of them. I have 2 buddies that we text during all of our games. I told them we are going to love Smith. That said, I still want to see how they do against the competition that we have coming up. Another tune up Friday and then it gets real in a hurry!
I get that for sure, but you can see a glimpse of Braden and Loyers hustle plays too along with their offense.
So you're saying in future years they still might Flory-sh!!!
Bearcats hung with Arizona yesterday but were blown out by the Buckeyes just now.
