OT - NFL/Kneeling

[Wolegib]

And to support that people are sick of this crap, ratings are down:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...n-amid-kneeling-protest/ar-AAsrVvF?li=BBnb7Kz
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...n-amid-kneeling-protest/ar-AAsrVvF?li=BBnb7Kz

Also the sales of the jersey of the steelers player that came out on his own during the national anthem have skyrocketed.

The NFL players need to get the hint that the nation doesn't want to put up with your antics while you are paid millions to play a game. You don't want to put your hand on your heart during the anthem? Fine, stand there in silence like and other respectful adult does.

I believe the ratings are down in part because the players are too involved in too many off field issues other than playing football! And the resulting product on the field isn't close to what it should be! People are tired of players using the first 4 games to get in sync because they were too lazy to do so in the preseason! Look at the packers. Their early season performance has been pathetic! Rogers and his key receivers only played 4 series in the preseason and two of those series were 4 plays! Whether patriotic or not, the word pampered comes to mind! These early games are meaningless to them! As rogers says, Relax! We have the talent once we decide to get motivated and get it in gear! and the fans know it

You can see the difference in college football ! Our guys are fired up! Sometimes a little too much!

 

[boilerdug]

Former Boiler making me proud!
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-englan...neeling-first-time-im-ashamed-to-be-a-patriot

 

[ossim]

Nobody forced anyone to kneel. Look no further than Drew Brees for how a player who was disappointed in Trump's message should have reacted while still showing respect to the flag. Trying to pin this on Trump is a cop out even though I think it was a poor decision on his part. Each player still had a choice on how to react. They made their choice. In my opinion, those that chose to kneel made a very poor one.

Whether or not its a poor decision is subjective. I'm not here to convince anyone otherwise, but how is it a cop out if you'd have like maybe 5 players still kneeling and we wouldn't even be talking about this had Trump chose to not actively throw a gas tanker into a small fire.

 

[tjreese]

Former Boiler making me proud!
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-englan...neeling-first-time-im-ashamed-to-be-a-patriot

good for Matt.

 

[TC4THREE]

Whether or not its a poor decision is subjective. I'm not here to convince anyone otherwise, but how is it a cop out if you'd have like maybe 5 players still kneeling and we wouldn't even be talking about this had Trump chose to not actively throw a gas tanker into a small fire.

Because people are still accountable for their own actions. Trump didn't make anyone kneel yesterday. Those who did so chose to do it on their own.

 

[ANDY597]

This is the NFL the league were everything put into a players bodies is tested what socks and shoes they have on is regulated this could be nipped in the but easily the NFL chooses not to do any thing shows they r on black lives matter, George sorous

 

[32zone]

This is the NFL the league were everything put into a players bodies is tested what socks and shoes they have on is regulated this could be nipped in the but easily the NFL chooses not to do any thing shows they r on black lives matter, George sorous

I don't see it that way. I think the owners were weak in the beginning with Kap - thinking they would be judged as racists if they shut down any sort of anthem protest. They were no doubt secretly hoping the problem would go away. It never did go away. The President gave his thoughts on the matter - which a lot of people happen to agree with - and the players decided to revolt. End result - a shit storm that the NFL deserves every bit of for being weak on Kap out of fear of being labeled by those on the left.

 

[70boiler]

Clearly you've bought into the victimhood argument.....
But, I'll appease you: Yes, a kid born with fetal alcohol syndrome, a mental disability or other condition that literally prevents them from functioning cognitively at a high enough level to achieve basic learning is going to struggle an unlikely to become a doctor, but that's a very, very small % (<2%?) of the population. For the rest of us, whether born with a silver spoon, wooden spoon or no spoon, you still have the opportunity to succeed.
I know kids that are born in the hood are at a disadvantage compared to kids born into a nice suburban community, but there's success and failure stories that come out of both areas.
The point is, there's opportunity, t's what people do with that opportunity that matters.
Now, if you want to start discussing 'culture', I'm happy to have that discussion as well.

I don't disagree that people must do the best with the tools they are given. However, the post upon which I commented originally was the "we can be whatever we want" genre. Sorry, it simply isn't so in the vast majority of cases. Nor do I believe that the child of an illiterate junk collector in East St. Louis has the same chance and opportunity for success and a high quality life as those of Ivanka Trump. I recognize possible, I still occasionally buy a lottery ticket, but I believe more in probabilities, so I haven't quit working.

 

[ahhculdee]

Only people that are in support of kneeling are people don't watch football. The NFL is alienating their core, the NFL will soon be on their death bed.

 

[PurdueBtfu2]

the real underlying issue here is
freedom, personal liberty, and conservative principles remaining greater than any statist indoctrinations and tools whether it may be a pledge, anthem, flag, hand gestures, standing/sitting requirements, whatever else may become a norm (with those 'norms' additionally being altered and revised some over time).

citizens can be proud of the past & present who fought for us and others to be free from such requirements, while not ultimately succumbing to similar acts of fealty to government.
and also being able to focus on more pertinent issues and dilemma facing state and national legislature and reform.

Wholeheartedly agree. This is essentially more fake news, assisted by the media. It is propelling a misguided argument between the political elite and the wealthy elite. All the while, the masses are actually arguing the when, where, and how much to participate with these government orders and rituals. Types of agendas not far removed from history and other governments and countries. Individuals would be better served to be outraged by this and many other greater concerns to our country, rather than focusing on the trivial described in the media or here. How do the masses continually fall victim to be so easily misguided?

 

[spradecki]

Here's the thing, though. The only reason we're even discussing this right now is because our president went out of his way to call it out in a political rally (1 year into his term really?), which led to even more players kneeling. Why aren't you complaining about cause instead of the effect? Our government is actively trying to divide the population even further and we're focused on a bunch of guys kneeling at a game.

the president is saying what most americans are thinking

 

[threeeputtt]

The NFL is two faced. They allow players to do what they did and the previous year denied the Dallas Cowboys from wearing black bands on their uniform.

I ask why the NFL also doesn't support diversity and affirmative action regardless of talent! The lack of (I believe there is 1) representation in Asian, Hispanic and transgendered players is appalling. Isn't this bigotry?

 

[SIBoiler2]

The NFL is two faced. They allow players to do what they did and the previous year denied the Dallas Cowboys from wearing black bands on their uniform.

I ask why the NFL also doesn't support diversity and affirmative action regardless of talent! The lack of (I believe there is 1) representation in Asian, Hispanic and transgendered players is appalling. Isn't this bigotry?

From what I've seen I believe there are plenty of transgendered players. They just haven't declared yet but they sure act the part.

 

[70boiler]

the president is saying what most americans are thinking

Apparently not this one
http://amp.kansascity.com/news/local/article175295331.html

 

[BoilerGal74]

Here's the thing, though. The only reason we're even discussing this right now is because our president went out of his way to call it out in a political rally (1 year into his term really?), which led to even more players kneeling. Why aren't you complaining about cause instead of the effect? Our government is actively trying to divide the population even further and we're focused on a bunch of guys kneeling at a game.

Players have been kneeling for more than a year at theses games. I don't care for the manner this President tweets but it is laughable that this was cause and result.

 

[lbodel]

Incorrect. I never once said that kneeling means they don't like "anything" about this country. That's you trying to go off on a tangent.

I get it. You don't like Trump and try to make everything a referendum on him. I personally think it's absolutely idiotic from a political perspective for him to pick up this issue right now but that doesn't change a thing about how I feel about those who show disrespect during the national anthem.

You said: Does a country need to be perfect before you can appreciate it?

Which implies that they don't appreciate it because they don't see it as perfect. I'm not grasping at straws, and maybe you didn't mean to word it that way - but just saying how it comes across.

Also, I don't like Trump, but I didn't need to try and do anything about Trump. Trump was the one who made it an absurdly stupid ordeal. I said it's not my favorite form of protest. And you can certainly not agree with it. But I don't for one second think it's appropriate to say they should be fired and to call them sons of bitches. Do you?

 

[IndySouthsider]

Only people that are in support of kneeling are people don't watch football. The NFL is alienating their core, the NFL will soon be on their death bed.

Good one!! Ha ha!

 

[lbodel]

I think what we're finding is that most people disagree with the premise that blacks are being routinely rounded up and shot by police. I think people just kind of rolled their eyes at the few who were kneeling. Now that we are seeing more and more athletes kneeling and now entire teams not coming out of the locker room...I think people are saying enough is enough. I think they're saying we don't buy the premise that blacks are being arbitrarily shot. I think they're saying a big chunk of the responsibility (if not all of the responsibility) falls on the people who have committed a crime or are suspected of committing a crime and are not following police commands. What they seem to be saying is that White/black/yellow/...if you do not follow the commands of a police officer, you run the risk of being arrested, tackled, tazed, and even shot. These protests don't seem to factor in the responsibility on the part of the suspects for their behavior during their interactions with police.

I tend to think this is how most people feel who have issues with these protests.

I think you're making your views out to be everyone's views. By the way, the teams that didn't come out of the locker rooms didn't do so in protest - it was because they didn't want to be divided on the sideline because they don't all have the same views.

 

[lbodel]

Players have been kneeling for more than a year at theses games. I don't care for the manner this President tweets but it is laughable that this was cause and result.

So you think this issue would have gotten the same amount of attention yesterday if the President didn't say a word about it?

 

[lbodel]

And to support that people are sick of this crap, ratings are down:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...n-amid-kneeling-protest/ar-AAsrVvF?li=BBnb7Kz
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...n-amid-kneeling-protest/ar-AAsrVvF?li=BBnb7Kz

Also the sales of the jersey of the steelers player that came out on his own during the national anthem have skyrocketed.

The NFL players need to get the hint that the nation doesn't want to put up with your antics while you are paid millions to play a game. You don't want to put your hand on your heart during the anthem? Fine, stand there in silence like and other respectful adult does.

The ratings thing is bogus. First off, this year's ratings don't take into account canceled NFL games due to the hurricane. Secondly, the ratings for ALL sports are down over the past years. The NFL's decline is actually a lot less than other sports, including NASCAR and NBA.

 

[lbodel]

Between my husband and myself we gave 46 years of all active duty serviceto the US Navy just so these players might be able to have the freedom to kneel- so I have no problem with them wanting to draw attention to a cause whether I agree with it or not. But does anyone here really believe these kneeling players are doing this to unify us all?? Not all NFL players are mental giants but no one can convince me those players thought kneeling during the National Anthem would result in anything but anger and more racial division.
These multi millionaire players have been blessed with the ability to make a wonderful life for themselves by virtue of being the best at playing a child's game-which we grown up kids support with our $$$$. By virtue of their celebrity they have access to TV, radio, the press, and social media-all platforms to voice their concerns in an adult manner for hopefully positive discussions. That was not their choice....
So while the Colts, Saints and most other NFL teams knelt on the sidelines yesterday wanting to divide us there were thousands of young 18 year olds all over the world charged with the responsibility of maintaining millions of dollars worth of military equipment--earning less than a McDonald's employee. Ask them about institutional privilege...The NFL has gotten their last penny from me...

Just to put this isn't context, 40% of the military is now made up of ethnic minorities. To pin this as some them vs. the military is a bit of a stretch. It's like the episode of Parks N Rec where the country music guy inserts random tributes about loving America to make people like him, but he's an actual jackass in real life. You're coming to a broad conclusion based on an image, not by knowing or speaking to anyone. And you are also painting NFL players as all being the same. Many of them do wonderful things for their communities, including supporting the military.

 

[tjreese]

I don't disagree that people must do the best with the tools they are given. However, the post upon which I commented originally was the "we can be whatever we want" genre. Sorry, it simply isn't so in the vast majority of cases. Nor do I believe that the child of an illiterate junk collector in East St. Louis has the same chance and opportunity for success and a high quality life as those of Ivanka Trump. I recognize possible, I still occasionally buy a lottery ticket, but I believe more in probabilities, so I haven't quit working.

Fully understand what you are saying and know there are support both ways for this. Relative to probabilities...be careful in comparing odds of events..like the probability of throwing a 7 with two dice and the probability of an event that does NOT have an outcome that cannot be changed. No matter how many times I throw two legal dice...the probability of throwing a 7 doesn't change with legal dice. The probability of a certain demographic used to predict something does not carry the same weight and at a given point in time that probability may change due to a lot of circumstances...many controlled by the individual. One event is reality and the other is perception...perception that may or may not be correct with the same magnitude as reality. Zo's mom thought there was a way out.

My family includes a previous surgeon from Paraguay that fled the communists for fear of being murdered. He left everything as a wealthy man and took "a" windbreaker to New York. He passed newspapers and placed a book on English translation with his medical books to study for a medical exam as he was learning English. He is no longer a surgeon , but a MD in Bradenton. We have a lot of people playing victim..and that runs across a lot of demographics. I reference such with the healthy people running out of their cars in a handicapp parking space a few days ago. No question life is more difficult for some than others. It always has been and always will be...When you look at academics by demographics, many Asians living with multiple families in a single home to be able to afford it excel moreso than many other races.

Anyone with a heart has to feel for those that have been beaten down by life...particularly if by chance, but there are a lot of people that can do a lot better than they do if they put forth the effort and postpone immediate gratification for something better down the road. The ole four D's from Purdue basketball...Determination, Dedication, Desire and Discipline

 

[BoilerGal74]

Just to put this isn't context, 40% of the military is now made up of ethnic minorities. To pin this as some them vs. the military is a bit of a stretch. It's like the episode of Parks N Rec where the country music guy inserts random tributes about loving America to make people like him, but he's an actual jackass in real life. You're coming to a broad conclusion based on an image, not by knowing or speaking to anyone. And you are also painting NFL players as all being the same. Many of them do wonderful things for their communities, including supporting the military.

I am well aware of the military's make up. More importantly I was and am still honored to have called those men and woman of many races and cultures with whom I served Shipmate. I am not blaming all NFL players...in fact I specifically referred to those kneeling in protest during the National Anthem. I didn't even suggest that they should not bring their issues, whatever each might be to the forefront. I stated quite clearly I believe the kneeling was meant not to point out problems with our nation but meant to only anger and racially divide...and I am repeating it again. Those kneeling players have incredible access to bring their issues forward in appropriate and constructive manners. There is nothing constructive about kneeling during the playing of this nation's National Anthem. Please read all again slowly and carefully...
Furthermore if you can point out something POSITIVE that these kneeling players accomplished by kneeling during that time please do. I am sure I would not be the only person to have missed it...

 

[PurdueBtfu2]

Players have been kneeling for more than a year at theses games. I don't care for the manner this President tweets but it is laughable that this was cause and result.

Controversy dates back far with the anthem and sports. As it caught on after drumming up patriotism from World War 1 during the World Series. Although it was not officially the anthem until 1931.

"There I was, the black grandson of a slave, the son of a black sharecropper, part of a historic occasion, a symbolic hero to my people. The air was sparkling. The sunlight was warm. The band struck up the national anthem. The flag billowed in the wind. It should have been a glorious moment for me as the stirring words of the national anthem poured from the stands. Perhaps, it was, but then again, perhaps, the anthem could be called the theme song for a drama called The Noble Experiment. Today, as I look back on that opening game of my first world series, I must tell you that it was Mr. Rickey’s drama and that I was only a principal actor. As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world. In 1972, in 1947, at my birth in 1919, I know that I never had it made."
-Jackie Robinson

 

[70boiler]

Fully understand what you are saying and know there are support both ways for this. Relative to probabilities...be careful in comparing odds of events..like the probability of throwing a 7 with two dice and the probability of an event that does NOT have an outcome that cannot be changed. No matter how many times I throw two legal dice...the probability of throwing a 7 doesn't change with legal dice. The probability of a certain demographic used to predict something does not carry the same weight and at a given point in time that probability may change due to a lot of circumstances...many controlled by the individual. One event is reality and the other is perception...perception that may or may not be correct with the same magnitude as reality. Zo's mom thought there was a way out.

My family includes a previous surgeon from Paraguay that fled the communists for fear of being murdered. He left everything as a wealthy man and took "a" windbreaker to New York. He passed newspapers and placed a book on English translation with his medical books to study for a medical exam as he was learning English. He is no longer a surgeon , but a MD in Bradenton. We have a lot of people playing victim..and that runs across a lot of demographics. I reference such with the healthy people running out of their cars in a handicapp parking space a few days ago. No question life is more difficult for some than others. It always has been and always will be...When you look at academics by demographics, many Asians living with multiple families in a single home to be able to afford it excel moreso than many other races.

Anyone with a heart has to feel for those that have been beaten down by life...particularly if by chance, but there are a lot of people that can do a lot better than they do if they put forth the effort and postpone immediate gratification for something better down the road. The ole four D's from Purdue basketball...Determination, Dedication, Desire and Discipline

Wholeheartedly agree with the view you express. I came from bad neighborhood, playmate growing up was killed in raid on Black Panther HQ in Chicago, raised by aunt and uncle, no close family member ever to college, scholarship and shift at gas station and later at National Homes Factory in Lafayette while at Purdue, followed by year of teching and pouring concrete before law school. Think I got it, lived a bit of it. Nonetheless given the nature of the posts I have directed my comments toward, I stand by them.

 

[tjreese]

Controversy dates back far with the anthem and sports. As it caught on after drumming up patriotism from World War 1 during the World Series. Although it was not officially the anthem until 1931.

"There I was, the black grandson of a slave, the son of a black sharecropper, part of a historic occasion, a symbolic hero to my people. The air was sparkling. The sunlight was warm. The band struck up the national anthem. The flag billowed in the wind. It should have been a glorious moment for me as the stirring words of the national anthem poured from the stands. Perhaps, it was, but then again, perhaps, the anthem could be called the theme song for a drama called The Noble Experiment. Today, as I look back on that opening game of my first world series, I must tell you that it was Mr. Rickey’s drama and that I was only a principal actor. As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world. In 1972, in 1947, at my birth in 1919, I know that I never had it made."
-Jackie Robinson

...and those of us old enough to remember the 1968 olympics remember black power then 4 years before the terrorists in Munich.

 

[lbodel]

I am well aware of the military's make up. More importantly I was and am still honored to have called those men and woman of many races and cultures with whom I served Shipmate. I am not blaming all NFL players...in fact I specifically referred to those kneeling in protest during the National Anthem. I didn't even suggest that they should not bring their issues, whatever each might be to the forefront. I stated quite clearly I believe the kneeling was meant not to point out problems with our nation but meant to only anger and racially divide...and I am repeating it again. Those kneeling players have incredible access to bring their issues forward in appropriate and constructive manners. There is nothing constructive about kneeling during the playing of this nation's National Anthem. Please read all again slowly and carefully...
Furthermore if you can point out something POSITIVE that these kneeling players accomplished by kneeling during that time please do. I am sure I would not be the only person to have missed it...

You say you aren't blaming all NFL players - yet say you're boycotting the NFL. That doesn't jive. In fact, even yesterday when it was most prominent, it was it was still a rather small minority of each team.

I've said multiple times that this isn't my favorite way of protesting, it's not my thing. But if you're going to boycott anything that involves people that you don't agree with, you'd probably have a hell of a list. Even though I'm not a fan of it, I'm not going to get so riled up about something that's rather minor in the grand scheme of things.

But it goes back to labeling people as "pro-American". What does chanting USA USA USA do? It doesn't change anything. But it makes you feel better when you do it. If it makes these players feel like they're bringing someone's attention to what they feel is an injustice, then good for them. Just because you aren't moved by it, doesn't mean anyone isn't.

 

[BoilerGal74]

Controversy dates back far with the anthem and sports. As it caught on after drumming up patriotism from World War 1 during the World Series. Although it was not officially the anthem until 1931.

"There I was, the black grandson of a slave, the son of a black sharecropper, part of a historic occasion, a symbolic hero to my people. The air was sparkling. The sunlight was warm. The band struck up the national anthem. The flag billowed in the wind. It should have been a glorious moment for me as the stirring words of the national anthem poured from the stands. Perhaps, it was, but then again, perhaps, the anthem could be called the theme song for a drama called The Noble Experiment. Today, as I look back on that opening game of my first world series, I must tell you that it was Mr. Rickey’s drama and that I was only a principal actor. As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world. In 1972, in 1947, at my birth in 1919, I know that I never had it made."
-Jackie Robinson

I have tremendous respect for Jackie Robinson and what he braved to open opportunities for minorities but I question this parallel. As of the 2014 Season 68% of the men playing in the NFL were Black. A distant second were the 28% who were White and third, all other racial make up was combined for 4.36%. Many things have changed since Jackie Robinson first took the field, many other things still need to change but intentionally choosing to disrespect one's country in front of millions serves no constructive purpose. And quite frankly was never meant to.

 

[PurdueBtfu2]

There is nothing constructive about kneeling during the playing of this nation's National Anthem. Please read all again slowly and carefully...
Furthermore if you can point out something POSITIVE that these kneeling players accomplished by kneeling during that time please do. I am sure I would not be the only person to have missed it...

Even with the Jackie Robinson example above, the real argument should not be if citizens should kneel, or stand, or cover their heart, or extend their arms - or any ritual requirement that may come down from big government. Personal freedom and liberty begin to erode especially during times of war, and the government can be all to eager to indoctrinate fear and nationalist views in place of individual rights.

The National Anthem became prominent after being played in the World Series during World War I, before ever being officially adopted.

The Pledge of Allegiance has also been a long evolving issue. The Pledge itself written by Bellamy, considered a Socialist. The original Bellamy hand salute even needed further US government code to replace with the hand-over-your-heart - because it was then used by fascists and Nazis. Under God being added to the Pledge in the 1950's in response to Communism.

I would rather fight to retain an individual's freedoms, rather than promoting further government overreach and their ideologies. Whether I agree with the individual's viewpoints or not. This is consistent with other recent debates about an individual's rights to protest, and not being intimidated by other citizens or the state.

 

[BoilerBabyGirl]

There isn't mainstream white music that glorifies drugs, crime, mistreatment of women, and violence against police. This is all an attempt an to justify that. I have no sympathy for anyone who embraces that lifestyle that gets shot or fired. If there more real men still out there they wouldn't stand for it

 

[tjreese]

Even with the Jackie Robinson example above, the real argument should not be if citizens should kneel, or stand, or cover their heart, or extend their arms - or any ritual requirement that may come down from big government. Personal freedom and liberty begin to erode especially during times of war, and the government can be all to eager to indoctrinate fear and nationalist views in place of individual rights.

The National Anthem became prominent after being played in the World Series during World War I, before ever being officially adopted.

The Pledge of Allegiance has also been a long evolving issue. The Pledge itself written by Bellamy, considered a Socialist. The original Bellamy hand salute even needed further US government code to replace with the hand-over-your-heart - because it was then used by fascists and Nazis. Under God being added to the Pledge in the 1950's in response to Communism.

I would rather fight to retain an individual's freedoms, rather than promoting further government overreach and their ideologies. Whether I agree with the individual's viewpoints or not.

with a lean between a conservative and a Libertarian...I know what you are saying

 

[SKYDOG]

Even with the Jackie Robinson example above, the real argument should not be if citizens should kneel, or stand, or cover their heart, or extend their arms - or any ritual requirement that may come down from big government. Personal freedom and liberty begin to erode especially during times of war, and the government can be all to eager to indoctrinate fear and nationalist views in place of individual rights.

The National Anthem became prominent after being played in the World Series during World War I, before ever being officially adopted.

The Pledge of Allegiance has also been a long evolving issue. The Pledge itself written by Bellamy, considered a Socialist. The original Bellamy hand salute even needed further US government code to replace with the hand-over-your-heart - because it was then used by fascists and Nazis. Under God being added to the Pledge in the 1950's in response to Communism.

I would rather fight to retain an individual's freedoms, rather than promoting further government overreach and their ideologies. Whether I agree with the individual's viewpoints or not.

are there any core values established yearns ago that people aren't going to protest? All these protests are getting old. I'm not overly happy about certain things, but using my time and resources to continually protest is a waste of time and energy. People need to do something about their unhappiness to make their lives better.

 

[TC4THREE]

You said: Does a country need to be perfect before you can appreciate it?

Which implies that they don't appreciate it because they don't see it as perfect. I'm not grasping at straws, and maybe you didn't mean to word it that way - but just saying how it comes across.

Also, I don't like Trump, but I didn't need to try and do anything about Trump. Trump was the one who made it an absurdly stupid ordeal. I said it's not my favorite form of protest. And you can certainly not agree with it. But I don't for one second think it's appropriate to say they should be fired and to call them sons of bitches. Do you?

If you can't show respect it stands to reason you don't really appreciate it. Not hard to figure out and I worded it perfectly.

 

[BoilerGal74]

You say you aren't blaming all NFL players - yet say you're boycotting the NFL. That doesn't jive. In fact, even yesterday when it was most prominent, it was it was still a rather small minority of each team.

I've said multiple times that this isn't my favorite way of protesting, it's not my thing. But if you're going to boycott anything that involves people that you don't agree with, you'd probably have a hell of a list. Even though I'm not a fan of it, I'm not going to get so riled up about something that's rather minor in the grand scheme of things.

But it goes back to labeling people as "pro-American". What does chanting USA USA USA do? It doesn't change anything. But it makes you feel better when you do it. If it makes these players feel like they're bringing someone's attention to what they feel is an injustice, then good for them. Just because you aren't moved by it, doesn't mean anyone isn't.

Apparently we are disagreeing on most things posted today but I suppose that makes for good exchange of ideas. (I promise I wont't take a knee.) I am personally choosing to no longer watch NFL football or support them with my $$$ because I no longer find it an entertaining and relaxing pastime. I readily admit that is primarily because watching these incredibly blessed athletes disrespect something that means so very much to me is gut wrenching. I am not asking you or anyone else to do or feel the same. Nor I am not asking you or anyone else to agree with me. I am simply making a personal choice just like those men on the sidelines on their knees. Football is entertainment- nothing more. When it is no longer entertaining and becomes painful to watch I see no reason to waste my time or my $$$$ on it. You sir, are free to make your own decision...another wonderful thing about living in this country.

 

[BoilerGal74]

Even with the Jackie Robinson example above, the real argument should not be if citizens should kneel, or stand, or cover their heart, or extend their arms - or any ritual requirement that may come down from big government. Personal freedom and liberty begin to erode especially during times of war, and the government can be all to eager to indoctrinate fear and nationalist views in place of individual rights.

The National Anthem became prominent after being played in the World Series during World War I, before ever being officially adopted.

The Pledge of Allegiance has also been a long evolving issue. The Pledge itself written by Bellamy, considered a Socialist. The original Bellamy hand salute even needed further US government code to replace with the hand-over-your-heart - because it was then used by fascists and Nazis. Under God being added to the Pledge in the 1950's in response to Communism.

I would rather fight to retain an individual's freedoms, rather than promoting further government overreach and their ideologies. Whether I agree with the individual's viewpoints or not. This is consistent with other recent debates about an individual's rights to protest, and not being intimidated by other citizens or the state.

Okay, I am confused. In my original post in this discussion I stated quite plainly I supported the kneeling players right to kneel if they so chose. I simply questioned the arena and manner they chose to raise their issues. Stating I believed their purpose was not to unite but to divide. That is my honest opinion. I simply do not believe the kneeling Colts were shocked or amazed to find thousands booing at their actions rather than trying to understand their issues. I have tried to be objective about each of the responses I have received. Sadly, anytime racial division is the subject people want to twist others words or ideas furthering only more division rather than finding common points from which to build upon.

 

[stout1]

There isn't mainstream white music that glorifies drugs, crime, mistreatment of women, and violence against police

Heavy metal and punk aren't exactly gumdrops and lollipops.

 

[BoilerGal74]

Just a point...watch most crowds today and a good 50% or more do not comply with (C) anymore, they do take their hats off and stay silent so are they disrespectful too or protesting?

Mostly uneducated as to the issue...sadly.

 

[Wolegib]

I understand the above posts, but do not agree with everything. I will agree that a lot of people agree with Trump's viewpoints. Trump did win the electoral college but did not win the popular vote, and did not come close to winning 50% of the votes cast. So he can speak anything he wants, but he doesn't represent a majority viewpoint.

I believe the U.S. flag represents the country and it's people and not the President. I believe the President should represent his people rather than his party, his personal business interests and his donors/contributors. And I have sent several emails to my own congressmen asking him to represent his people's desires rather than his party's desires when he votes. But so far, on every single issue, he has voted the party line as if ordered to do so. if people want to protest, the President's words and actions, they should protest and impeach our President, and not our U.S. Flag.

I believe if NFL players want to protest, they should find a different place and venue to do so. But they probably feel that like actors, their game actions will receive the most attention. Nobody is going to attend a daytime rally in Cleveland.

What I hate most are hypocrites. If you plan to boycott the NFL, that means to stop buying their merchandise, and stop wearing their jerseys, and stop playing fantasy football and betting on the teams. I honestly wonder how many of those people saying they are going to boycott NFL games really will follow up and do so? how many of those people actually planned on watching the games anyway? What I hate most is a businessman named Donald Trump went public and tweeted the President should NEVER get into the business of telling the NFL of how to run their business. I guess times have changed in 4 years.

What I also don't like is every time our President makes an unpopular law, he spews out misdirection garbage. While people complained about the NFL, he quietly signed a new travel ban order adding three more countries. And while the media covered the NFL, he put his new law into place with very little fanfare or attention - much like the Colts leaving Baltimore for Indianapolis. and he's stirring the pot and fueling the fire to take away attention from this week's health care vote. and tax reform and budget and lack of doing anything for Puerto Rico. It just seems to me that Mr. Trump's posts are always conveniently made to divert attention. Hmmmm, his son in law uses a personal email, hmmmm, in order to divert attention to him, let's cause a racial divide. Much like "GIMMICK" plays, those tweets can only work so often before everybody sees them for what they are. I'd love to see the man go to court rather than delaying his court cases against him or buying out his accusers. Eventually that day is coming. the GLOVE FITS !

Chief of Staff Kelly admitted Trump's original words creating this mess were not part of his script written for him. Either he has totally lost his mind, or his actions and words were intentional and have basically created a nation wide divide and riot. I have to believe he knew the reaction his words would cause, right? if we end up having riots as a result would he be charged for inciting them?

No "man" or "woman" is ever above the law.

 

[BoilerGal74]

So we're judged on how much we love America based on our behavior during a sporting event's national anthem?

I talked to someone during a game back in 2012, oh gosh. Am I not a patriot?

My response was to your post implying they don't like anything about the country.

Is it my favorite form of protest? Not really. Is it really earth shattering stuff that boggles the mind? Not really.

I'm certainly not into dividing the country, calling people sons of bitches and inflaming race wars whenever I have the chance to on Twitter though, so maybe I'm in the minority.

Not to be picky since you and I have had several discussions already to day, but it is this Nation's National Anthem. Not the sporting event's

 

[Wolegib]

On thing you seem to forget with this thread, is this fire started and fueled is rapidly expanding and will soon engulf all professional sports, and will soon expand to other activities including the Olympics and college and high school activities. Are you going to boycott those functions as well? people will start taking a knee at Disneyworld. it's becoming a movement just like all those colored ribbons. and soon people will do it in mass much like the ice bucket challenge and fidget spinners.