OT - NFL/Kneeling

[32zone]

I told my buddies last year that if the NFL didn’t get out in front of this situation that they would soon start alienating their customers and be put in a no win situation. Well, I think that time has arrived.

Whether you agree with the “hands up don’t shoot” narrative that started the kneeling or not, mixing politics with sports is bad for business as we are a country very polarized politically. By allowing this issue to escalate to this point, they are going to lose customers regardless of how they handle it from here on out.

Most people like myself look to sports as an escape from the grind of daily life. We watch sports to forget about what divides us. By allowing their employees to bring politics into the workplace in a very controversial manner, the NFL owners are now going to lose customers (on one side or the other)...perhaps in larger numbers then they ever realized. It will be interesting to see how they attempt to minimize their losses.

 

[SKYDOG]

If these multi million dollar players want to protest then there are many other ways to do it. Taking a knee during the national anthem is just an excuse for something the president said. I don't like everything anyone says all the time. Athletes protesting in this manner just disrespects everything people have fought and died for.

 

[BBG]

Here is my issue, I get what they are trying to accomplish and I fought for their right to do so. But on the other hand they are demeaning a very core thing to our country.

You want to make a statement? Stand up, lock arms and sing the anthem as one like some players have started doing. Kneeling is just disrespectful to those that served to protect their million dollar way of life.

I have always said that kapperdick only started doing the kneeling thing because he was about to get traded. It was a smart move on his part at the time because no one is going to want a player on their team with so much controversy surrounding him.

However the president only made it worse with his comments. He needed to just let it go because for the most part it was negatively viewed on and now all he managed to do was probably make more people do it. I appreciate what he tried to do, but sometimes it's better to just do nothing and let things implode on their own.

 

[32zone]

Here is my issue, I get what they are trying to accomplish...

Curious - what do you think they’re trying to accomplish?

 

[BBG]

Curious - what do you think they’re trying to accomplish?

Unity among people and drawing awareness to discrimination. Which is ironic because I highly doubt any of those millionaires have ever faced what they are protesting.

 

[snowsquirrel11]

If kneeling is so disrespectful then people are disrespecting Jesus every day. Be honest with yourselves and state that the real reason you dislike players kneeling for the anthem has nothing to do with the national anthem itself, servicemen who've given the ultimate sacrifice, or anything like that. It has to do with YOU being offended that someone with a different view point is making themselves noticed/heard.

Now let me address the ludicrous statement that "if players want to protest then there are many other ways to do it". Nowhere do these men have a better platform for their causes than during games. There is no protest that would capture more eyes and ears.

And most importantly, the president can't tell private citizens how to act or dictate how private companies are run (the NFL). Perhaps Trump needs a refresher course on the constitution of the country he heads?

 

[BBG]

If kneeling is so disrespectful then people are disrespecting Jesus every day.

Actually what you say here only supports how disrespectful it is to kneel at the anthem as you should only kneel to Jesus.

And on the same context in your last paragraph, as much right as those people have to protest, he has (as we all do) the right to react the way he did. Whether it is right or wrong, he too is exorcising his First Amendment rights.

 

[32zone]

If kneeling is so disrespectful then people are disrespecting Jesus every day. Be honest with yourselves and state that the real reason you dislike players kneeling for the anthem has nothing to do with the national anthem itself, servicemen who've given the ultimate sacrifice, or anything like that. It has to do with YOU being offended that someone with a different view point is making themselves noticed/heard.

Now let me address the ludicrous statement that "if players want to protest then there are many other ways to do it". Nowhere do these men have a better platform for their causes than during games. There is no protest that would capture more eyes and ears.

And most importantly, the president can't tell private citizens how to act or dictate how private companies are run (the NFL). Perhaps Trump needs a refresher course on the constitution of the country he heads?

Wow. Not sure where to start with this. I'm not religious but kneeling for religious purposes is done out of respect, no? What these players are doing is not being done out of respect for the anthem, flag, or country. In fact, it is just the opposite. VERY poor analogy on you part.

I agree that the players are doing it because they have a very public platform. No one is arguing that. I'm looking at the issue from the owner's perspective. We have now reached a point where people are not going to watch, buy tickets, buy merchandise, buy parking passes, buy food/drink, and etc...regardless of how the owners handle it from here on out.

 

[BBG]

Well as I said, it has gotten worse. Now the Steelers are not even going to be on the field for the anthem. Now it's gone from a message to flat out disrespect and these spoiled millionaires are all clueless.

I blame Trump (I support him but he made a yuge mistake) for making this worse when he didn't need to and these crybabies that make millions not understanding what the Anthem means.

 

[snowsquirrel11]

Wow. Not sure where to start with this. I'm not religious but kneeling for religious purposes is done out of respect, no? What these players are doing is not being done out of respect for the anthem, flag, or country. In fact, it is just the opposite. VERY poor analogy on you part.

I agree that the players are doing it because they have a very public platform. No one is arguing that. I'm looking at the issue from the owner's perspective. We have now reached a point where people are not going to watch, buy tickets, buy merchandise, buy parking passes, buy food/drink, and etc...regardless of how the owners handle it from here on out.

The players aren't flipping off the flag, turning their backs or something like that. Their helmets are off and they're looking at the flag. I can think of no other way of being noticed while also still being respectful than kneeling. None of the players have ever made comments or said anything against the fine folks that protect our country, that is a poorly inferred partisan talking point.

The NFL has a plethora of issues beyond players kneeling for the national anthem. People cutting cable, ticket prices rising, player safety rules making the sport boring, lack of parity between teams, etc. There is little to no correlation to people not going to NFL games because of people kneeling for the anthem.

 

[LonestarBoilerFan]

1. U.S. Code › Title 36 › Subtitle I › Part A › Chapter 3 › § 301

National Anthem.

(a)Designation.—
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1) when the flag is displayed—
(A)
individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B)
members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C)
all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2)
when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

 

[LonestarBoilerFan]

Anything else is just plain disrespectful and your kidding yourself if you say otherwise and that is all I have to say to this topic.

 

[BoilerStutz]

Players have the right to kneel and paying customers have the right to turn off the channel/cable. We just turned off cable and the antenna guy is coming on Tuesday. When I called, he indicated that all he does anymore is antenna installation as so many people are quitting cable.

I would let the free market handle this issue. If enough paying customers support kneeling during the anthem, then so be it. If a sufficient number does not, then the players and the NFL will have to figure out another approach.

 

[snowsquirrel11]

Players have the right to kneel and paying customers have the right to turn off the channel/cable. We just turned off cable and the antenna guy is coming on Tuesday. When I called, he indicated that all he does anymore is antenna installation as so many people are quitting cable.

I would let the free market handle this issue. If enough paying customers support kneeling during the anthem, then so be it. If a sufficient number does not, then the players and the NFL will have to figure out another approach.

In general I agree with this approach, but I do have one question. Was your decision to cut the cable motivated more because of the kneeling? Or was it because of the exorbitant cost for cable packages? For the vast majority it is the latter; in fact, the only reason I had cable was for the sports channels.

 

[arcb102000]

Actually, players do not have the right to kneel during the anthem. In 1991, a NBA player (Rauf) was suspended for an anthem protest.

While an employer cannot necessarily control what you do in your spare time, he can control what you do in the place of employment. Your job can require you to wear a uniform (UPS, Fedex, McDonald's) and even your personal appearance: contracts at the NY Yankees forbid beards.

Government workers are not allowed to wear political buttons on the job, though they can after leaving the office.

Focus groups (see JD Power, Rasmussen) have determined that political protests are the single-largest factor in declining NFL ratings. The networks are estimated to lose $200 million on their NFL broadcast revs in a report that I saw this week. When the NFL teams lose money from network fees and royalty from merchandise sales as well as ticket revs there will be a change. And don't forget that the stadiums are constructed with tax-free muni-bonds issued by government

 

[BoilerBabyGirl]

Kaepernick got his comeuppance

 

[BoilermakerD]

Wow. Not sure where to start with this. I'm not religious but kneeling for religious purposes is done out of respect, no? What these players are doing is not being done out of respect for the anthem, flag, or country. In fact, it is just the opposite. VERY poor analogy on you part.

I agree that the players are doing it because they have a very public platform. No one is arguing that. I'm looking at the issue from the owner's perspective. We have now reached a point where people are not going to watch, buy tickets, buy merchandise, buy parking passes, buy food/drink, and etc...regardless of how the owners handle it from here on out.

Do the owner's interests and perspective supersede the freedoms that should be afforded in this country? Why are people taking a symbol and acting the way that they would in stalin's Soviet Union or Hitler's Germany If someone wanted to be free to disrespect a symbol?

Now I know the counter argument is "well then they are free as owners to cut these players" ... well, not If proof can be shown that that was why. At the very least they could lose a lawsuit.

But ok, say they cut a super bowl QB and can make the laughable argument that guys like mike glennon are better to the point that it's just because kaepernick "can't play"... ok fine. As a player you should weigh the risk that oligarchs who are todays version of 17th century European kings (which we expressly sought to never have in this country) might blackball you if you express dissent. I get that.

A lot of people in this country need to realize what freedom really means. It means that the more I disagree with your expression, the more I protect it.

It's no different than neoliberal students (socially liberal students who have rich parents and are therefore basically fiscal conservatives) who want to silence those who might come onto campus and express a message that greatly disagrees with them. Not what america is.. if nazis want to march on their campus without hurting anyone.. as much as that personally disgusts me...

Protecting that IS what America and freedom is

 

[skfboiler]

Wrong.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ice-excessive-force-considering-civil-lawsuit

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Do the owner's interests and perspective supersede the freedoms that should be afforded in this country? Why are people taking a symbol and acting the way that they would in stalin's Soviet Union or Hitler's Germany If someone wanted to be free to disrespect a symbol?

Now I know the counter argument is "well then they are free as owners to cut these players" ... well, not If proof can be shown that that was why. At the very least they could lose a lawsuit.

But ok, say they cut a super bowl QB and can make the laughable argument that guys like mike glennon are better to the point that it's just because kaepernick "can't play"... ok fine. As a player you should weigh the risk that oligarchs who are todays version of 17th century European kings (which we expressly sought to never have in this country) might blackball you if you express dissent. I get that.

A lot of people in this country need to realize what freedom really means. It means that the more I disagree with your expression, the more I protect it.

It's no different than neoliberal students (socially liberal students who have rich parents and are therefore basically fiscal conservatives) who want to silence those who might come onto campus and express a message that greatly disagrees with them. Not what america is.. if nazis want to march on their campus without hurting anyone.. as much as that personally disgusts me...

Protecting that IS what America and freedom is

Players are free to kneel. Business owners are free to choose someone else to represent their business. Period.

Kaepernick should have made his stand back when he could still play.

 

[ghostoffatjack]

1. U.S. Code › Title 36 › Subtitle I › Part A › Chapter 3 › § 301

National Anthem.

(a)Designation.—
The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—
(1) when the flag is displayed—
(A)
individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B)
members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C)
all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
(2)
when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

Just a point...watch most crowds today and a good 50% or more do not comply with (C) anymore, they do take their hats off and stay silent so are they disrespectful too or protesting?

 

[BoilermakerD]

Players are free to kneel. Business owners are free to choose someone else to represent their business. Period.

Kaepernick should have made his stand back when he could still play.

That's kinda what I just said. So, why don't you and everyone who is so outraged at free expression in the land of the free just stop foaming at the mouth and let the owners make individual decisions on who they cut?

It's the land of the free right? Or the land of the free for some? Or is it just all BS?

Because when cops chant "whose streets our streets"

 

[32zone]

Unity among people and drawing awareness to discrimination. Which is ironic because I highly doubt any of those millionaires have ever faced what they are protesting.

Today was the first time I've heard the word unity used in regards to these protests. It was used all over the NFL network this morning. Almost as if the NFL said to use this word over and over today. Kind of like the Clinton's with their "vast right wing conspiracy."

With regard to awareness about discrimination - do you think there is someone living in this country who is unaware that some black people believe they are being discriminated against?

 

[z_one]

It might have been better served if a "Chickenhawk" President that got 5 deferments to stay out of Vietnam hadn't called someone else a "son of a bitch" while he talked about White Supremacists and KKK members having "good people". What an idiot! He has stirred the pot and made it worse. Kapernick didn't handle the situation correctly either, but Trump is a total fool.

 

[Frankie611]

Players have the right to kneel and paying customers have the right to turn off the channel/cable. We just turned off cable and the antenna guy is coming on Tuesday. When I called, he indicated that all he does anymore is antenna installation as so many people are quitting cable.

I would let the free market handle this issue. If enough paying customers support kneeling during the anthem, then so be it. If a sufficient number does not, then the players and the NFL will have to figure out another approach.

NFL is primarily broadcast on "antenna tv"

 

[Frankie611]

Kaepernick got his comeuppance

Kaepernick was a quarterback in a Jim Harbaugh gimmicky offense. He was never that good, but he fit the system. People act like he got cut because of his views. He was never an elite QB.
Reminds me of another Harbaugh QB who fit a system, parlayed it into the #1 draft pick, and has primarily spent the last four years nursing his yeast infections on the sidelines in Indy. Jim H is a douche but he is a very good QB coach. Hell, look what he did to us yesterday with a backup qb.

 

[BoilermakerD]

Kaepernick was a quarterback in a Jim Harbaugh gimmicky offense. He was never that good, but he fit the system. People act like he got cut because of his views. He was never an elite QB.
Reminds me of another Harbaugh QB who fit a system, parlayed it into the #1 draft pick, and has primarily spent the last four years nursing his yeast infections on the sidelines in Indy. Jim H is a douche but he is a very good QB coach. Hell, look what he did to us yesterday with a backup qb.

This was funny in a serious topic during a divisive time.. thank you lol

 

[BoilermakerD]

Today was the first time I've heard the word unity used in regards to these protests. It was used all over the NFL network this morning. Almost as if the NFL said to use this word over and over today. Kind of like the Clinton's with their "vast right wing conspiracy."

With regard to awareness about discrimination - do you think there is someone living in this country who is unaware that some black people believe they are being discriminated against?

Based on the discrimination that has been prevalent forever, to the level it has... do you think there has been enough awareness or change? I lived in the Chicago suburbs and was shocked to know that guys I grew up with who always wanted to know why people play the race card... became cops and bragged about ticketing any black person who rolled through town and impounding whenever possible ...

"Whose streets, OUR streets" - St. Louis police "protecting and serving" (where does possession of streets factor into that again?)

 

[TheBoris]

Veterans should form picket lines at the entrances of NFL stadiums.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

That's kinda what I just said. So, why don't you and everyone who is so outraged at free expression in the land of the free just stop foaming at the mouth and let the owners make individual decisions on who they cut?

It's the land of the free right? Or the land of the free for some? Or is it just all BS?

Because when cops chant "whose streets our streets"

Who's mad? You're obviously much more worked up about this than I am LOL!

Free market is working IMO. Everyone is who is mad is free to not watch football, free to vote against Trump, etc etc.

 

[BoilermakerD]

Veterans should form picket lines at the entrances of NFL stadiums.

About what? This? Or the fact that the department of defense doesn't give a crap about veterans, pays military contractors fat money, does a study where they themselves determine that they waste $125 billion a year in bureaucratic waste... and then covers that study up? All while we have a list ten miles long of things that we "don't have money for"

That would be a nice picket.

The picket you're talking about sounds like the lead up to a totalitarian regime...

 

[New Pal Boiler]

About what? This? Or the fact that the department of defense doesn't give a crap about veterans, pays military contractors fat money, does a study where they themselves determine that they waste $125 billion a year in bureaucratic waste... and then covers that study up? All while we have a list ten miles long of things that we "don't have money for"

That would be a nice picket.

The picket you're talking about sounds like the lead up to a totalitarian regime...

So you're against Freedom of Assembly? Makes sense.

 

[BoilermakerD]

Who's mad? You're obviously much more worked up about this than I am LOL!

Free market is working IMO. Everyone is who is mad is free to not watch football, free to vote against Trump, etc etc.

Ok you personally may not be mad. That's cool. But I'm watching people on facebook bears posts foam at the mouth.

Did you say free market. I love that theoretical garbage. "Free markets rule. Free.. don't regulate.. free... oh wait what? No regulations led to credit default swaps crashing the housing market. Well, I'm still right about everything but I just need Bush to get me $880 billion dollars to save my rear end so I can prove how right I am"

Who said anyone isn't watching the NFL? Guys knelt and expressed dissent. Conservatives who "love freedom" are losing their mind about it. (To be fair, not you)... players will get away with it because they should because that's what America is.

I am watching games in Tahoe and if I'm even slightly mad about anything.. it's that I left my weed in the bay... but we are headed back now.

It's 1:39 and all is well...

 

[vic.valiant]

Now let me address the ludicrous statement that "if players want to protest then there are many other ways to do it". Nowhere do these men have a better platform for their causes than during games. There is no protest that would capture more eyes and ears.

And most importantly, the president can't tell private citizens how to act or dictate how private companies are run (the NFL). Perhaps Trump needs a refresher course on the constitution of the country he heads?

It's not their stage it's the owner's stage. They are merely actors on it for the sole purpose of entertaining the money paying customers. Who by the way don't care what they think or want to see their uninformed virtue signaling.
The first ammendment applies to all citizens of this nation even the president. How's that for a refresher course?
Go Blue!

 

[BoilermakerD]

So you're against Freedom of Assembly? Makes sense.

No roger ailes... didn't say that. They can assemble... nothing I just said could be reasonably read to even imply otherwise ... I'm just giving you a good idea of why they should assemble ... over the corruption in the DoD. I said earlier that non violent bro nazis should be free to assemble.

But let's not what this post is... because it's happened here many times before. Another conservative beginning to get mad simply because someone has the balls to express viewpoints that don't agree with their alt right blogs... or their drain the swamp president who never met someone from Goldman Sachs that he didn't love

 

[BoilermakerD]

It's not their stage it's the owner's stage. They are merely actors on it for the sole purpose of entertaining the money paying customers. Who by the way don't care what they think or want to see their uninformed virtue signaling.
The first ammendment applies to all citizens of this nation even the president. How's that for a refresher course?
Go Blue!

Ok so the owners can go through players who knelt, cut them and make the case it's for football reasons... what's the problem?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Ok you personally may not be mad. That's cool. But I'm watching people on facebook bears posts foam at the mouth.

Did you say free market. I love that theoretical garbage. "Free markets rule. Free.. don't regulate.. free... oh wait what? No regulations led to credit default swaps crashing the housing market. Well, I'm still right about everything but I just need Bush to get me $880 billion dollars to save my rear end so I can prove how right I am"

Who said anyone isn't watching the NFL? Guys knelt and expressed dissent. Conservatives who "love freedom" are losing their mind about it. (To be fair, not you)... players will get away with it because they should because that's what America is.

I am watching games in Tahoe and if I'm even slightly mad about anything.. it's that I left my weed in the bay... but we are headed back now.

It's 1:39 and all is well...

Your Straw Man game needs some work.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Ok so the owners can go through players who knelt, cut them and make the case it's for football reasons... what's the problem?

They don't have to make any case at all - no problem!

 

[vic.valiant]

Ok so the owners can go through players who knelt, cut them and make the case it's for football reasons... what's the problem?

For business reasons hurting the brand. It's the game not the men. No problem.
Go Blue!

 

[BoilerStutz]

In general I agree with this approach, but I do have one question. Was your decision to cut the cable motivated more because of the kneeling? Or was it because of the exorbitant cost for cable packages? For the vast majority it is the latter; in fact, the only reason I had cable was for the sports channels.

Fair question. I got tired of paying for something I rarely use, with the exception of some sporting events. And now it is hard to watch a sporting event without getting smothered with social commentary.

 

[TheBoris]

About what? This?

If you need to ask why, it's obvious that you're not a veteran.