OT - NFL/Kneeling

[Wolegib]

The fire started during Obamas presidency when rap culture completely took over Chicago and the murders rose to over 2000 in a year. Look at real world problems not the scapegoat you've built up in your mind.

to quote Billy Joel. We didn't start the fire. Do you know the rest of the words?

this fire has been burning long before Obama was ever born.

if you want to talk about Chicago and murders and corruption, why single out just one President and one era? A lot of people also died in the 60's in Chicago. A lot of people died in the 20's and thirties too, the Mayor Daily era was a great renaissance for Chicago except for those who lived in the projects. You actually believe Obama and rap culture started all this? and totally ignore the past 100+ years of strife? there are a lot of old grave stones in Chicago, and many more that never were buried.

I see a lot of real world problems. I also see a world that used to work together to try to solve those problems. Let's just say I've had the pleasure of going to Disney World, and I've also had the experience of going behind the scenes and seeing how Disney World is really run. Disney World is like a microcosm of our real world. the problem is 90% of the world sees Disney as one giant liberal snowflake and happy place where all is good, and we all love one another and sing it's a small world. But the reality is, while everybody enjoys the rides, there is a very small force that works 24/7 unnoticed behind the scenes to keep everything running and in place. There are some secrets about Disney and the world that will never be told.

 

[BoilerBabyGirl]

Walt Disney liked to smoke cigarettes but he never let anyone photograph him with a cigarette. He was protecting a conservative idea. Trump tries to protect conservative ideas when he tweets about the disrespectful anthem kneeling and when he stands up to Kim.

Liberal people try to destroy conservative ideas. That's literally what it means to be liberal. To desires change. The destruction of every conservative idea. The most liberal places in America are overflowing with drugs, murder, suicide, and social issues. There can never be peace in a liberal society. There can never be fairy tale endings.

 

[z_one]

Walt Disney liked to smoke cigarettes but he never let anyone photograph him with a cigarette. He was protecting a conservative idea. Trump tries to protect conservative ideas when he tweets about the disrespectful anthem kneeling and when he stands up to Kim.

Liberal people try to destroy conservative ideas. That's literally what it means to be liberal. To desires change. The destruction of every conservative idea. The most liberal places in America are overflowing with drugs, murder, suicide, and social issues. There can never be peace in a liberal society. There can never be fairy tale endings.

Trump is not a conservative. He's not trying to protect conservative ideas. He's trying to cover his ass for being involved with the Russians.

 

[32zone]

Trump is not a conservative. He's not trying to protect conservative ideas. He's trying to cover his ass for being involved with the Russians.

Oh for fuk's sake.

 

[z_one]

Oh for fuk's sake.

That's what I say.

 

[ossim]

Walt Disney liked to smoke cigarettes but he never let anyone photograph him with a cigarette. He was protecting a conservative idea. Trump tries to protect conservative ideas when he tweets about the disrespectful anthem kneeling and when he stands up to Kim.

Liberal people try to destroy conservative ideas. That's literally what it means to be liberal. To desires change. The destruction of every conservative idea. The most liberal places in America are overflowing with drugs, murder, suicide, and social issues. There can never be peace in a liberal society. There can never be fairy tale endings.

200 years ago, that mindset would likely have you fighting as a loyalist for King George. Think on that a second.

 

[SKYDOG]

to quote Billy Joel. We didn't start the fire. Do you know the rest of the words?

this fire has been burning long before Obama was ever born.

if you want to talk about Chicago and murders and corruption, why single out just one President and one era? A lot of people also died in the 60's in Chicago. A lot of people died in the 20's and thirties too, the Mayor Daily era was a great renaissance for Chicago except for those who lived in the projects. You actually believe Obama and rap culture started all this? and totally ignore the past 100+ years of strife? there are a lot of old grave stones in Chicago, and many more that never were buried.

I see a lot of real world problems. I also see a world that used to work together to try to solve those problems. Let's just say I've had the pleasure of going to Disney World, and I've also had the experience of going behind the scenes and seeing how Disney World is really run. Disney World is like a microcosm of our real world. the problem is 90% of the world sees Disney as one giant liberal snowflake and happy place where all is good, and we all love one another and sing it's a small world. But the reality is, while everybody enjoys the rides, there is a very small force that works 24/7 unnoticed behind the scenes to keep everything running and in place. There are some secrets about Disney and the world that will never be told.

The murders in Chicago escalated during the Obama presidency. He could have tried to do something about it, but chose not to. Maybe that's why he was singled out.

 

[z_one]

The murders in Chicago escalated during the Obama presidency. He could have tried to do something about it, but chose not to. Maybe that's why he was singled out.

And what has Trump attempted to do about it other than flap his jaws?

 

[zwick19050]

200 years ago, that mindset would likely have you fighting as a loyalist for King George. Think on that a second.

The people protesting are multi millionaires who are protesting a system that benefitted them. THEy can leave and use a different system.

Can anyone list any system where blacks would be more successful? CAn anyone list ANY system with aNY President where blacks are happy?

 

[z_one]

Ridiculous comment. Whites elected Trump because they were unhappy with the way things were. Aren't we ever happy?

 

[SKYDOG]

And what has Trump attempted to do about it other than flap his jaws?

I'm more than sure anything Trump would try to do would be met with great resistance from the fine people in Chicago.

 

[z_one]

You might be right, but I haven't seen him try anything except to say something negative at one of his "rallys". He's already blown more money on transportation to his "rallys" than Obama spent in an entire year. I heard someone claim he was a conservative. I wish he'd start proving it.

 

[stout1]

Walt Disney liked to smoke cigarettes but he never let anyone photograph him with a cigarette. He was protecting a conservative idea. Trump tries to protect conservative ideas when he tweets about the disrespectful anthem kneeling and when he stands up to Kim.

Liberal people try to destroy conservative ideas. That's literally what it means to be liberal. To desires change. The destruction of every conservative idea. The most liberal places in America are overflowing with drugs, murder, suicide, and social issues. There can never be peace in a liberal society. There can never be fairy tale endings.

 

[gleap1969]

Walt Disney liked to smoke cigarettes but he never let anyone photograph him with a cigarette. He was protecting a conservative idea. Trump tries to protect conservative ideas when he tweets about the disrespectful anthem kneeling and when he stands up to Kim.

Liberal people try to destroy conservative ideas. That's literally what it means to be liberal. To desires change. The destruction of every conservative idea. The most liberal places in America are overflowing with drugs, murder, suicide, and social issues. There can never be peace in a liberal society. There can never be fairy tale endings.

The most addicted states in America are overwhelmingly Blue - only Arizona at 8 and Michigan at 10 went Trump.

Republican states in America are overflowing with violent crimes: 1 LA 2AL 3TN 6AR 7MO 8FL 9SC 10AZ. Red on Red Crime obviously. Delaware is 4, Nevada 5.

Red Staters kill themselves thusly: 1AL 2MT 5WV 6AZ 7KY 8ID 9ND 10OK. Nevada is 4, Colorado is 5. White suicide rate is highest at 14.7%, African-American lowest at 5.5%.

What you would consider a "social issue" I probably would not and vice versa, hence, no data. Conclude whatever you will from these statistics. And whatever you do, I am certain it does not match what I do.

 

[stout1]

The most addicted states in America are overwhelmingly Blue - only Arizona at 8 and Michigan at 10 went Trump.

Republican states in America are overflowing with violent crimes: 1 LA 2AL 3TN 6AR 7MO 8FL 9SC 10AZ. Red on Red Crime obviously. Delaware is 4, Nevada 5.

Red Staters kill themselves thusly: 1AL 2MT 5WV 6AZ 7KY 8ID 9ND 10OK. Nevada is 4, Colorado is 5. White suicide rate is highest at 14.7%, African-American lowest at 5.5%.

What you would consider a "social issue" I probably would not and vice versa, hence, no data. Conclude whatever you will from these statistics. And whatever you do, I am certain it does not match what I do.

Sure, but rap music.

 

[Purdue97]

The players aren't flipping off the flag, turning their backs or something like that. Their helmets are off and they're looking at the flag. I can think of no other way of being noticed while also still being respectful than kneeling. None of the players have ever made comments or said anything against the fine folks that protect our country, that is a poorly inferred partisan talking point.

The NFL has a plethora of issues beyond players kneeling for the national anthem. People cutting cable, ticket prices rising, player safety rules making the sport boring, lack of parity between teams, etc. There is little to no correlation to people not going to NFL games because of people kneeling for the anthem.

-Understand that the DoD and National Guard have paid millions to get the teams out on the field(which I think is dumb but that is another topic) for the National Anthem for a support the troops cause and that is why they are out there. They then have a protest at that event. Now, that protest could very well be for something else. That said, at the very least, that is a perfect example of a message failing by way of delivery. That is Marketing 101. People are not talking about why they are out there(discrimination, inequality, police abuse) but they are talking about the protest itself. And because the protest is at a support the troop event, one can hardly blame people for not liking the protest because they feel it disrespectful to troops.

-As for no correlation between kneeling for the anthem and going to games/watching on tv, one might want to look at NFL attendance and viewership at the start of last year and what direction it suddenly went.

Do not disagree with some of the. points in your post but it leaves some info out

 

[Purdue97]

Actually, players do not have the right to kneel during the anthem. In 1991, a NBA player (Rauf) was suspended for an anthem protest.

While an employer cannot necessarily control what you do in your spare time, he can control what you do in the place of employment. Your job can require you to wear a uniform (UPS, Fedex, McDonald's) and even your personal appearance: contracts at the NY Yankees forbid beards.

Government workers are not allowed to wear political buttons on the job, though they can after leaving the office.

Focus groups (see JD Power, Rasmussen) have determined that political protests are the single-largest factor in declining NFL ratings. The networks are estimated to lose $200 million on their NFL broadcast revs in a report that I saw this week. When the NFL teams lose money from network fees and royalty from merchandise sales as well as ticket revs there will be a change. And don't forget that the stadiums are constructed with tax-free muni-bonds issued by government

Right on. And when that $200 million in lost revenue works its way down to a smaller salary cap, lower salaries, and less benefits we will see how many of the players feel so strongly about their protest.

 

[Purdue97]

Do the owner's interests and perspective supersede the freedoms that should be afforded in this country? Why are people taking a symbol and acting the way that they would in stalin's Soviet Union or Hitler's Germany If someone wanted to be free to disrespect a symbol?

Now I know the counter argument is "well then they are free as owners to cut these players" ... well, not If proof can be shown that that was why. At the very least they could lose a lawsuit.

But ok, say they cut a super bowl QB and can make the laughable argument that guys like mike glennon are better to the point that it's just because kaepernick "can't play"... ok fine. As a player you should weigh the risk that oligarchs who are todays version of 17th century European kings (which we expressly sought to never have in this country) might blackball you if you express dissent. I get that.

A lot of people in this country need to realize what freedom really means. It means that the more I disagree with your expression, the more I protect it.

It's no different than neoliberal students (socially liberal students who have rich parents and are therefore basically fiscal conservatives) who want to silence those who might come onto campus and express a message that greatly disagrees with them. Not what america is.. if nazis want to march on their campus without hurting anyone.. as much as that personally disgusts me...

Protecting that IS what America and freedom is

Exactly supersede what and what freedoms are you talking about?

Players are at work during these protests. They are only allowed to protest if the NFL and the team's owner says they are allowed too. Otherwise, by all means they can be cut. I do not know what you do for work or where, but tomorrow go hold a political rally/protest on company ground and on company time and see what that gets you. Work in a hospital in a right to work state and try to start a Union there. Bye Bye.

As for CK, not sure he wants to play anymore. He had a deal with Baltimore all but done, his gf posts some racist nonsense on twitter about Baltimore, and offer is never made. If he wanted to play he would have stated it was not him, he did not support it, or get rid of her. To my knowledge he did nothing about it. What owner/GM/coach of a team would tolerate that nonsense?

 

[gleap1969]

Sure, but rap music.

Rap music, country&western music, hip hop music. . .oxymoron. Death metal, orchestral metal, the pipes (ahhh, Black Kilts Berlin ), Simon and Garfunkel = music.

 

[Purdue97]

About what? This? Or the fact that the department of defense doesn't give a crap about veterans, pays military contractors fat money, does a study where they themselves determine that they waste $125 billion a year in bureaucratic waste... and then covers that study up? All while we have a list ten miles long of things that we "don't have money for"

That would be a nice picket.

The picket you're talking about sounds like the lead up to a totalitarian regime...

Well you talk about military waste-maybe we should picket to protest the millions the DoD and NG has spent to the NFL and other sports venues for a support the troop moment before the game.

 

[Purdue97]

The President has plenty of problems on his hands - it's utterly baffling to me why he randomly chose this. Of course, we know the answer - he likes to stoke these racial issues as we've seen time and time again. Likely to cloud the news cycle. I have no respect for that.

Whoah! Actually agree. That said, he is hardly the first President, nor will he be the last to implement a distraction and stoke race issues. His predecessor made a living out of it.

 

[BoilerBabyGirl]

The most addicted states in America are overwhelmingly Blue - only Arizona at 8 and Michigan at 10 went Trump.

Republican states in America are overflowing with violent crimes: 1 LA 2AL 3TN 6AR 7MO 8FL 9SC 10AZ. Red on Red Crime obviously. Delaware is 4, Nevada 5.

Red Staters kill themselves thusly: 1AL 2MT 5WV 6AZ 7KY 8ID 9ND 10OK. Nevada is 4, Colorado is 5. White suicide rate is highest at 14.7%, African-American lowest at 5.5%.

What you would consider a "social issue" I probably would not and vice versa, hence, no data. Conclude whatever you will from these statistics. And whatever you do, I am certain it does not match what I do.

In "Red" states like Florida and Arizona less than half the people voted for Trump. I don't think it's fair to consider the entire state conservative, do you? Florida voted Democrat in the last election even. This article makes it very clear to me the effects of rap culture: https://infogram.com/us-crime-in-black-and-white-1gzxop49q0okmwy

 

[SKYDOG]

In "Red" states like Florida and Arizona less than half the people voted for Trump. I don't think it's fair to consider the entire state conservative, do you? Florida voted Democrat in the last election even. This article makes it very clear to me the effects of rap culture: https://infogram.com/us-crime-in-black-and-white-1gzxop49q0okmwy

That is a very telltailing article. Its certainly one we won't hear on any of the major networks.

 

[BoilermakerD]

Well you talk about military waste-maybe we should picket to protest the millions the DoD and NG has spent to the NFL and other sports venues for a support the troop moment before the game.

I'm all for it! I didn't mention it but yes... in a country where we had to be dragged into two world wars kicking and screaming after halftime... we decide that the military contractor gravy train can't end after there were no wmds in Iraq and it began to look like bush and Cheney took us on a very expensive chase for little to nothing (unless boogeyman stories scare you)... so what do we do? We desire to sway public opinion by paying off the NFL to put on Nazi germany-esque displays of "patriotism?"

People have lost their damn mind. It's no more genuinely patriotic than the Macy's Christmas display embodies real genuine Christmas spirit.

Make this country work for more people like it did from FDR until reagans inauguration and you'll see more people being patriotic because they live in a place where they have a place!

 

[BoilermakerD]

Exactly supersede what and what freedoms are you talking about?

Players are at work during these protests. They are only allowed to protest if the NFL and the team's owner says they are allowed too. Otherwise, by all means they can be cut. I do not know what you do for work or where, but tomorrow go hold a political rally/protest on company ground and on company time and see what that gets you. Work in a hospital in a right to work state and try to start a Union there. Bye Bye.

As for CK, not sure he wants to play anymore. He had a deal with Baltimore all but done, his gf posts some racist nonsense on twitter about Baltimore, and offer is never made. If he wanted to play he would have stated it was not him, he did not support it, or get rid of her. To my knowledge he did nothing about it. What owner/GM/coach of a team would tolerate that nonsense?

Well right to work is a scam. It's taking people whose best interests are served by a union.. and disincentivizing unions by saying "well that guy gets union benefits but he's allowed to not pay"... because wealthy people get wealthier and create more of that 18th century royal kingdom feel that they seem to desire so much when there's no Union!

You should be able to voice your political ideas at work without being fired, especially in a way as non invasive as going to a knee for 60 seconds but fine... your employer can fire you for doing so.

So let them! If the employers chooses to do so and claims it's for non football reasons ... well I would hope the men doing this understand the risk and feel strongly enough to do so with the risk in mind. If not that's sort of foolish don't you think?

But, what I see from your run of the mill conservative is this... "the employer can fire him. Oh wait, the employer has decided not to? Well let's take a break here and sub in 'he should be fired because the employer CAN' as if to imply that anyone who believes in these displays should be able to step into the employers shoes and fire him."

The employer has that power. Last I checked there are 32 employers in that league. I seriously doubt that anyone here or on facebook is one of those...

 

[Purdue97]

Well right to work is a scam. It's taking people whose best interests are served by a union.. and disincentivizing unions by saying "well that guy gets union benefits but he's allowed to not pay"... because wealthy people get wealthier and create more of that 18th century royal kingdom feel that they seem to desire so much when there's no Union!

You should be able to voice your political ideas at work without being fired, especially in a way as non invasive as going to a knee for 60 seconds but fine... your employer can fire you for doing so.

So let them! If the employers chooses to do so and claims it's for non football reasons ... well I would hope the men doing this understand the risk and feel strongly enough to do so with the risk in mind. If not that's sort of foolish don't you think?

But, what I see from your run of the mill conservative is this... "the employer can fire him. Oh wait, the employer has decided not to? Well let's take a break here and sub in 'he should be fired because the employer CAN' as if to imply that anyone who believes in these displays should be able to step into the employers shoes and fire him."

The employer has that power. Last I checked there are 32 employers in that league. I seriously doubt that anyone here or on facebook is one of those...

Not going to disagree with what you state. My point was just to say that a lot of people are running around stating free speech rights, and the reality is that that is not (always) the case while at work.

I think push will come to shove if/when revenue declines from lower tv ratings/cancellations of NFL package/lower jersey memorobilia sales come to light. It shows be significant and not only will players stop theprotests the owners will want them too. JMO

 

[BoilerBiker]

Not going to disagree with what you state. My point was just to say that a lot of people are running around stating free speech rights, and the reality is that that is not (always) the case while at work.

I think push will come to shove if/when revenue declines from lower tv ratings/cancellations of NFL package/lower jersey memorobilia sales come to light. It shows be significant and not only will players stop theprotests the owners will want them too. JMO

the nfl is definitely having to reevaluate more than in years past where they practically could do no wrong.

anthem protests can contribute to rating declines, but they are also dealing with longer, larger issues... concussions, officiating/rule changes, inconsistent league rulings, over saturation of weekly games, cord cutters, etc.

iirc 2020 is the next expiration of the cba, so that could be a huge battle with the nflpa

 

[TheBoris]

Well right to work is a scam.

Labor unions are a scam. Check out the Chicago Public Schools.

 

[SKYDOG]

Labor unions are a scam. Check out the Chicago Public Schools.

CPS is the extortion of the the Chicago taxpayers.

 

[BoilerBabyGirl]

I'm not watching any NFL today. I should've stopped when they let Ezekiel Elliott play in Week 1. Join me in support of our country and extremely brave law enforcement officers and in protest of these criminals.

 

[BoilerBiker]

I'm not watching any NFL today. I should've stopped when they let Ezekiel Elliott play in Week 1. Join me in support of our country and extremely brave law enforcement officers and in protest of these criminals.

Elliot?
the nfl are the ones actually trying for suspension

 

[BoilerBabyGirl]

Elliot?
the nfl are the ones actually trying for suspension

I'm not protesting the conservative NFL. I'm protesting the liberal kneelers and their endorsement of the long standing rap theme "F*** the police."

 

[gr8indoorsman]

I'm not watching any NFL today. I should've stopped when they let Ezekiel Elliott play in Week 1. Join me in support of our country and extremely brave law enforcement officers and in protest of these criminals.

The NFL suspended him for six games and the courts overturned it. So your reasoning for not watching the NFL citing Eliott is flawed and misinformed.

And nah, won't be joining your boycott. Sorry.

 

[TheBoris]

And nah, won't be joining your boycott. Sorry.

Watchng NFL goons play football is more important to you than respect for our flag and the national anthem. You are one pathetic excuse for a US Navy officer.

 

[Beeazlebub]

Watchng NFL goons play football is more important to you than respect for our flag and the national anthem. You are one pathetic excuse for a US Navy officer.

It takes a special type of person to continually berate someone even when you know they have you on ignore. Kudos!

 

[miksta]

It takes a special type of person to continually berate someone even when you know they have you on ignore. Kudos!

Lolol. I'm 75% convinced TheBoris is a false flag liberal troll.

 

[TheBoris]

It takes a special type of person to continually berate someone even when you know they have you on ignore. Kudos!

Putting me on ignore (actually a lie, Gr8 flips back and forth) was his cowardly decision, not mine. Should I not berate someone who buries his head in the sand?

 

[gr8indoorsman]

It takes a special type of person to continually berate someone even when you know they have you on ignore. Kudos!

It's a sad, sad life of a lonely, washed-up old "military" man. I feel sorry for him. The world went and passed him by and now he's bitter, left to vent his frustrations on the internet to a group of people who don't listen to him, whether ignored as I do, or just mocking him as even those of his own political ilk do. He's crying for attention as a two year old does, I presume with name calling and telling me I'm a disgrace to the uniform or something. Fortunately, I recognize as most everyone else does, how irrelevant he and those who think like he does are in today's world.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

The most addicted states in America are overwhelmingly Blue - only Arizona at 8 and Michigan at 10 went Trump.

Republican states in America are overflowing with violent crimes: 1 LA 2AL 3TN 6AR 7MO 8FL 9SC 10AZ. Red on Red Crime obviously. Delaware is 4, Nevada 5.

Red Staters kill themselves thusly: 1AL 2MT 5WV 6AZ 7KY 8ID 9ND 10OK. Nevada is 4, Colorado is 5. White suicide rate is highest at 14.7%, African-American lowest at 5.5%.

What you would consider a "social issue" I probably would not and vice versa, hence, no data. Conclude whatever you will from these statistics. And whatever you do, I am certain it does not match what I do.

Is this a JOKE?! Maybe you should dig into these stats a little more and see WHO commits the violent crimes in these "red" states. Honestly this is a blatant misrepresentation of the situation and you are a clown for presenting it this way.

 

[BoilerBiker]

state wants to make colts refund upset fans if colt players kneel.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...pset-fans-if-players-kneel-during-anthem.html