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Bring it on. This team is not afraid of a challenge. We have length too.Watching the end of this LSU-VCU game, there is a lot of speed and length on the court. They still have a trapping press. Hopefully Purdue is prepared and aggressive against it.
Both teams were a bit reckless and out of control at that speed but it is going to be a battle.
I thought the same thing in watching that game...that, Purdue is going to have a difficult time against them when they see them in Florida.Watching the end of this LSU-VCU game, there is a lot of speed and length on the court. They still have a trapping press. Hopefully Purdue is prepared and aggressive against it.
Both teams were a bit reckless and out of control at that speed but it is going to be a battle.
I agree. So far, Painter's teams have never shown that they know how to attack a very aggressive full court press. I was taught and coached that short, quick passes and quick player movement can blow right through a press and result in layups And it has always worked for me and my teams. The good result is that opponents learn their lesson and stop trying to press. Painter's teams just seem to try and survive a press. There is a lot of standing around waiting for a pass. That a definite no no and it caused those two costly turnovers late in the last game. It is easy to teach this approach to attacking a press if you have any quickness at all. VCU would be a good chance to prove this if Painter would only apply this approach. So far never and we have wilted under even mild pressure.I thought the same thing in watching that game...that, Purdue is going to have a difficult time against them when they see them in Florida.
It is exactly the type of team that gives Purdue trouble in that they are long and athletic and physical...they are better than Marquette, and, Marquette posed problems.
Last year people learned quickly not to press our team. The one or two times MU tried, we easily broke it down but didn't go for the throat. I don't see the press as a major factor, but we do seem to lack a killer instinct so far.I agree. So far, Painter's teams have never shown that they know how to attack a very aggressive full court press. I was taught and coached that short, quick passes and quick player movement can blow right through a press and result in layups And it has always worked for me and my teams. The good result is that opponents learn their lesson and stop trying to press. Painter's teams just seem to try and survive a press. There is a lot of standing around waiting for a pass. That a definite no no and it caused those two costly turnovers late in the last game. It is easy to teach this approach to attacking a press if you have any quickness at all. VCU would be a good chance to prove this if Painter would only apply this approach. So far never and we have wilted under even mild pressure.
Last year people learned quickly not to press our team. The one or two times MU tried, we easily broke it down but didn't go for the throat. I don't see the press as a major factor, but we do seem to lack a killer instinct so far.
Actually that is not true. Just Prior to Carsen that was true, but with Carsen Purdue attacked the basket a few times and then teams knew that with Carsen on the floor a press would not be effective. It wasn't that Matt learned anything new (he already knew how) it was that he had the right players to break it. I don't recall the press being an issue with the Baby Boilers either..perhaps I'm worng there? The press wasn't even an issue with Ronnie Johnson...although other issues were.I agree. So far, Painter's teams have never shown that they know how to attack a very aggressive full court press. I was taught and coached that short, quick passes and quick player movement can blow right through a press and result in layups And it has always worked for me and my teams. The good result is that opponents learn their lesson and stop trying to press. Painter's teams just seem to try and survive a press. There is a lot of standing around waiting for a pass. That a definite no no and it caused those two costly turnovers late in the last game. It is easy to teach this approach to attacking a press if you have any quickness at all. VCU would be a good chance to prove this if Painter would only apply this approach. So far never and we have wilted under even mild pressure.
Yeah Robbie’s size and handle made it tough to press that group. Plus LewJack could just fly through it.Actually that is not true. Just Prior to Carsen that was true, but with Carsen Purdue attacked the basket a few times and then teams knew that with Carsen on the floor a press would not be effective. It wasn't that Matt learned anything new (he already knew how) it was that he had the right players to break it. I don't recall the press being an issue with the Baby Boilers either..perhaps I'm worng there? The press wasn't even an issue with Ronnie Johnson...although other issues were.
Mostly, a zone press, full, 3/4 and half have hurt Purdue during the PJ youth, Rapheal Davis years. I think it was cincinnati that may have played the run and jumped towards the end of the game that may have given that group fits. Straight up man press I don't think has been an issue for Purdue. So really, I think there were a few years where the press was an issue, but Matt knew how to beat it before those years and after those years..once he had the right players.
I will say that other than Iowa in the late 80s Gene would just break the press and put the other team on D for long periods of time, but not with Matt
not knowing anything about VCU I hope you can tell me what kind of press (es???) VCU runs and if this is full court or 3/4 court and do they also trap in the half court? Second, just trying to learn...after the press do they fall back into a zone and if so...what kind? Do they play a different half court D when they miss and when they make?We are a pretty good pressing team but I think smart and good enough to not stick with it if it’s not working. we’re all looking forward to this as a great game and a great test. Gonna be fun regardless!
I want to wish you luck but... well... you know
Opportunistic press- if they see something they’ll take it. Fast to fall back if it doesn’t work. Don’t jump the ball/pass as much as they used to back when we last played, but will take an advantage if it’s there. Quick to fall back if it doesn’t work ( I said that once but saying it again).not knowing anything about VCU I hope you can tell me what kind of press (es???) VCU runs and if this is full court or 3/4 court and do they also trap in the half court? Second, just trying to learn...after the press do they fall back into a zone and if so...what kind? Do they play a different half court D when they miss and when they make?
Thanking you in advance for all you can answer...
Not sure I understood what kind of press? Guessing zone press? Think I'm reading you saying somewhat of a soft press looking for lazy passing and or dribbling in bad spots and picking up ball. Perhaps there are some youtube clips?Opportunistic press- if they see something they’ll take it. Fast to fall back if it doesn’t work. Don’t jump the ball/pass as much as they used to back when we last played, but will take an advantage if it’s there. Quick to fall back if it doesn’t work ( I said that once but saying it again).
may happen full, or half, or a baseline trap just depends on what’s given.
Miss/ make? Hard to say this soon. Look for Santos-Silva to be in the middle of everything. Vann will most likely guard your best guy (according to the coaches of course).
We’ll rotate 9-10 players and they all bring something.
again this is arguably one of the best early seasons tests for us and maybe you guys too so really looking forward to it!
Just caught a few minutes of LSU but the camera focused oh half court. I was able to see some run and jump out of VCU. VCU played man...not sure if one possession was 23 zone just due to positioning and movement. Video had VCU pushing the ball a lot and shot well behind the arc. VCU is dribble drive all ball sreen offense. Never saw screens away from ball. Small video segments can mislead and so I could be wrong on shooting and maybe 23 zone which I wasn't sure. Nojel should have the size and strength to handle run and jump, but thompson being so light...depending on refs could get physically mauled. Hunter may break it before the jump can happen. Who flashes to top of key when they run and jump?Opportunistic press- if they see something they’ll take it. Fast to fall back if it doesn’t work. Don’t jump the ball/pass as much as they used to back when we last played, but will take an advantage if it’s there. Quick to fall back if it doesn’t work ( I said that once but saying it again).
may happen full, or half, or a baseline trap just depends on what’s given.
Miss/ make? Hard to say this soon. Look for Santos-Silva to be in the middle of everything. Vann will most likely guard your best guy (according to the coaches of course).
We’ll rotate 9-10 players and they all bring something.
again this is arguably one of the best early seasons tests for us and maybe you guys too so really looking forward to it!
I thought the same thing in watching that game...that, Purdue is going to have a difficult time against them when they see them in Florida.
It is exactly the type of team that gives Purdue trouble in that they are long and athletic and physical...they are better than Marquette, and, Marquette posed problems.
thanks I may try to catch more of the LSU game here...after I take care of a few things "outside"...Mostly man but rather than me try to explain what they do- For this season a few games can be found on YouTube, user mistachill
Didn’t mean to be so late replying but life come at you fast sometimes
you all have anything similar? I’d love to watch something all the way through....
We just played Jax State, 93-65 win, you guys play them tonight; I think that’s on mistachill’s list.thanks I may try to catch more of the LSU game here...after I take care of a few things "outside"...
perhaps it will add to what I already observed about the run and jump, dribble drive play etc.
Not part of the Purdue blueprint for more than 20 years...hard to argue with that to some extent given the success that has been had, yet, also impossible to argue that it has been (and remains) an issue, and, has directly kept Purdue from having even greater success.So.....when is Purdue going to get long and athletic and physical? It seems like that's been our problem for the last 20 years.
Not part of the Purdue blueprint for more than 20 years...hard to argue with that to some extent given the success that has been had, yet, also impossible to argue that it has been (and remains) an issue, and, has directly kept Purdue from having even greater success.
So.....when is Purdue going to get long and athletic and physical? It seems like that's been our problem for the last 20 years.
Watching the end of this LSU-VCU game, there is a lot of speed and length on the court. They still have a trapping press. Hopefully Purdue is prepared and aggressive against it.
Both teams were a bit reckless and out of control at that speed but it is going to be a battle.
VCU a problem??......I think the Purdue O is the problem.....until the O gets going well again, any opponent can be a difficult for us. Got to get back to scoring 76+ against quality opponents.
Wheeler, Eastern, and Haarms, among others, are long and athletic. I personally think we lack skill more than we lack length and athleticism.Not part of the Purdue blueprint for more than 20 years...hard to argue with that to some extent given the success that has been had, yet, also impossible to argue that it has been (and remains) an issue, and, has directly kept Purdue from having even greater success.
I think that Painter is always going to target some great shooters and passers, but he also has brought in some players who are very long and athletic, including Nojel, Wheeler, Haarms, Dow, and Newman. I think it will always be a blend with Painter.So.....when is Purdue going to get long and athletic and physical? It seems like that's been our problem for the last 20 years.
I agree. So far, Painter's teams have never shown that they know how to attack a very aggressive full court press. I was taught and coached that short, quick passes and quick player movement can blow right through a press and result in layups And it has always worked for me and my teams. The good result is that opponents learn their lesson and stop trying to press. Painter's teams just seem to try and survive a press. There is a lot of standing around waiting for a pass. That a definite no no and it caused those two costly turnovers late in the last game. It is easy to teach this approach to attacking a press if you have any quickness at all. VCU would be a good chance to prove this if Painter would only apply this approach. So far never and we have wilted under even mild pressure.
I guess it's called "shrinkage". People who don't understand the game think our team has shrunk. They don't see how position, confidence, and aggressiveness play a huge part in how the team looks, so they attribute poor game performance to some sort of physical deformity. Like Haarms suddenly shrunk to 6'3" and Eastern is hardly over 5'. It's a clown show on here some days.Why were people saying then a few weeks ago, that this was one of Painters longer athletic teams? The way a person plays can be from game to game, going on the physicality part of the game. Does Chris Kramer date back 20 years? I don't think he does and he was one of Purdues most physical players EVER! Plus if my memory is right, we have had several big 10 defensive players of the year. That doesn't come from being timid.
Not one of those guys is a genuine difference-maker, however, and, all three...at best...have fringe NBA potential.Wheeler, Eastern, and Haarms, among others, are long and athletic. I personally think we lack skill more than we lack length and athleticism.
Yeah- Definitely not saying they are difference makers. Haarms is the closest of the 3, but needs more consistency.Not one of those guys is a genuine difference-maker, however, and, all three...at best...have fringe NBA potential.
Haarms was invisible against Texas, and, generally is in games against the more physical and athletic teams...same for Nojel.
And, let's be fair...those guys standout relative to other Purdue players (past and current) more so than relative to truly athletic and physical players on other teams.
It is not as if Purdue has not had guys...they have...just not consistently, and, more so, not consistently to the extent that they were difference-makers...think of how many non-conference teams that were big/athletic/physical that Purdue beat.
To your other point though...yes, skill is more a concern and issue with those guys than athleticism or length...in all three cases.
I think that Wheeler could be, but, I think it may have been you that had the same thought on that matter that I did in that if three years in already it is not translating...it just may not. He is freakishly athletic though.Yeah- Definitely not saying they are difference makers. Haarms is the closest of the 3, but needs more consistency.
Not part of the Purdue blueprint for more than 20 years...hard to argue with that to some extent given the success that has been had, yet, also impossible to argue that it has been (and remains) an issue, and, has directly kept Purdue from having even greater success.
Why were people saying then a few weeks ago, that this was one of Painters longer athletic teams? The way a person plays can be from game to game, going on the physicality part of the game. Does Chris Kramer date back 20 years? I don't think he does and he was one of Purdues most physical players EVER! Plus if my memory is right, we have had several big 10 defensive players of the year. That doesn't come from being timid.
Just caught a lot of the LSU/VCU game and now trying to recall a bit after sleeping. Purdue’s final score was 81 to 49 or Purdue beat them 65%. VCU beat them 93 to 65 or 43%. None of this means anything since the teams play different styles and the same opponent is not the same every game, just like Purdue and VCU are not. I don’t think presses and traps beat good teams or even bad teams with good ball handlers…but not sure how good Purdue is at this time? Any press or trap should be more effective early in the year when teams are honing in things with new players.We just played Jax State, 93-65 win, you guys play them tonight; I think that’s on mistachill’s list.
bonus, I get the B10 network, can flip between VCU at 7 and Purdue at 8.
good luck tonight!
IMO since I have stated this many times, there is a difference between an on ball defender and off ball defender. The lean to "athletic ability" is more important as an on ball defender. Sure you have to have some athletic ability (it is D1) to defend away from the ball, but there it is much more mental, anticipating, willing to fight screens and just be with teh guy to prevent the pass to him or get him out so far that your on ball defense is not a liability. Most teams and there are exceptions have the main scorer at the 2 or 3 spot and most of those scorers are shooters in most cases moreso than drivers that the team screens to help. Kramer and Davis mostly guarded shooters and not as much on ball D. This year Eric Hunter has been very solid on the ball...very solid as he has matched the quickness with the ball most generally. Eric came very far from the first possession in Mackey where Cowan blew by him.Being a great defensive player is different than being athletic. Kramer and Ray Davis were both great defenders, but I wouldn't call either of them great athletes. Physical, yes, but no high flyers or speedsters. (Yes, I know, I know about he Kramer dunk against IL).
Plus, both those guys were liabilities on offense, so you're really playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.
Being a great defensive player is different than being athletic. Kramer and Ray Davis were both great defenders, but I wouldn't call either of them great athletes. Physical, yes, but no high flyers or speedsters. (Yes, I know, I know about he Kramer dunk against IL).
Plus, both those guys were liabilities on offense, so you're really playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.
We are a pretty good pressing team but I think smart and good enough to not stick with it if it’s not working. we’re all looking forward to this as a great game and a great test. Gonna be fun regardless!
I want to wish you luck but... well... you know
Great breakdown I will send this to my son to get a leg up. They will watch film individually and as a team he’ll get an idea but this is great stuff right here bcuz I taped the game and u hit it on the nail what u saw bcuz I saw the same thing no coach or nothing but I watched a team who uses there speed athleticism to there strength try to speed u up make u turn the ball over and its off to the races will make u play there uptempo style of game if u don’t play with poise game can get away from u quickly. Great great breakdown surely sending my son thisJust caught a lot of the LSU/VCU game and now trying to recall a bit after sleeping. Purdue’s final score was 81 to 49 or Purdue beat them 65%. VCU beat them 93 to 65 or 43%. None of this means anything since the teams play different styles and the same opponent is not the same every game, just like Purdue and VCU are not. I don’t think presses and traps beat good teams or even bad teams with good ball handlers…but not sure how good Purdue is at this time? Any press or trap should be more effective early in the year when teams are honing in things with new players.
That said, VCU is old and experienced and outside of a few really bad offensive possessions on the perimeter shots, VCU played a game the coach wants…helter-skelter and controlled chaos. VCU has a lot of players around 6’5” or so +/-3 inches (solid bodies) and so on the whole the team can handle the ball…and more importantly for VCU…DRIVE the ball. I did see a couple of screens away from the ball and they were backscreens for players to get going to the rim set around the FT line. Most of the screens were on ball screens set on the wings where the big rolled to the basket or just floated out in space. Outside of the screens mentioned, VCU mostly just used player movement (occupies the D and makes help harder on drivers that then translates to poorer rotation. Mid-post postings mostly and just driving the ball to get to the rim or kick out due to reads on help…and rotations. VCU has a LOT of individual play with a lot of players that can score on their own.
Although most of the video shows half court, it did appear that VCU pressured the ball the first half mostly. On an occasion it appeared the VCU coach played a 1-2-1-1 zone press that you couldn’t fully see in a split second. but I was able to see the goalie moments later. Evidence to me was also due to the coach hand signaling with his thumbs and index fingers touching…making a diamond which has been used by other coaches to call out a diamond and one or 1-2-1-1 press depending on whether you guard the triggerman mostly. Then it also appeared that VCU gave the appearance of matching up as man, only to play more 1-2-1-1 in the ¾ court. Generally though they read the player with the ball and what their man is doing. If the other offensive guard leaves the ball handler too far away that defensive player will go trap the ball while VCU’s other three players will provide of cushion on their offensive player and playing more zone of the court on ball side, knowing that the long pass to weakside takes too long and they can cover. However the opposite effect if staying too close to the ball handler making it easy for the off ball defender to leave and trap the ball handler. Purdue many times doesn’t see pressing and so it is important that Purdue keep solid spacing, while being strong with the ball with good decisions and not leaving just one person in the backcourt allowing an easy trap until Purdue gets a good feel. I do think they try to funnel the ball (as most would) with the ball handler dribbling with the left hand since most are right handed players. This increases the odds of a slower dribbler and passer when the ball starts in the of- hand. With Nojel and Eric being left -handed they naturally go with their left hand and so they will want to force to the other side of the court where Purdue wants the ball towards the middle of the court. If VCU funnels you to a corner around half court, the trap will commence. Purdue will want two players on ball side…corner maybe and close to the blocks or mid post to occupy those defenders that could actually catch a pass and the off guard a threat for ball reversal before the half court line if there and mostly to occupy that defender a split second. Now that the FT line area is open a player flash in there and if he pulls the D…hopefully a pass can also be made to him or back to the open off guard, but they will try to cover that up and it may not be open. The issue is Purdue wants an opening around the FT line to attack the D if the ball gets there, but VCU will have all five players on the ball side of the court and getting the ball to the off guard or if possible someone flashing to the high post area (they will try to prevent that and should with a man on that guy that flashes. VCU will take all their players and play the ball side leaving the line opposite of the goal to half court area away from the ball open. Nojel has the strength and size to go over the top and hit an open man…either the off guard or 3 man flashing to FT line area? Lastly, VCU applied pressure every opportunity (the first half) to set their D…after made Fgs, Fts and out of bounds to the opponent. They will also trap in all four corners and so once again…keep the ball in the middle of the court.
I think how Purdue handles the pressure is key. Purdue wants to score if easy, but does NOT want an up and down game if not scoring. Purdue wants the ball inside because not only does Purdue have some size there, but it makes their 5 man play D in closer quarters where size is more premium and speed is not as great since this 5 man (Carlso something) can face up, drive the ball and rebound. If Carlos gets in foul trouble it would be a big loss for VCU. If Purdue doesn’t score…too many missed 3 balls starting their break or turning it over…advantage VCU. Purdue wants to steal as many baskets as possible, but when not there make VCU play some D and get the ball inside when available. Purdue wants VCU to play against a set D in the half court, not easy baskets off of VCU’s D or long rebounds to start the push. In the half court, Purdue needs solid individual play on the dribble, a sound shell defense to help on that dribble with quick, accurate rotations. How effective VCU is off of individual play and off the dribble is their offense. Quickness whether on D or O goes to VCU as a team where as size goes to Purdue as a team.
When you have two very different styles, the zebras can be important in how they “view” the play. Although the 3 refs rotate more often than not one team has one guy under the basket for their offense and the other offense has a different one under their basket. How do the different refs view inside play and how physical in a trap can players be? I’m unaware of this years team having full games. You can catch some highlights…
I would like to hear your take on athleticism and what it is and is not. To say that Kramer is not athletic is a bit of a show stopper for me, same with Ray. Both are outstanding athletes. Shutting down the opposing teams best player at the high D1 level requires supreme athleticism.Being a great defensive player is different than being athletic. Kramer and Ray Davis were both great defenders, but I wouldn't call either of them great athletes. Physical, yes, but no high flyers or speedsters. (Yes, I know, I know about he Kramer dunk against IL).
Plus, both those guys were liabilities on offense, so you're really playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end.
He has thrown that term around for as long as I can remember and I am convinced he has no earthly idea what it means. Him saying someone isn't athletic is like someone claiming the Bee Gees are a rock band.I would like to hear your take on athleticism and what it is and is not. To say that Kramer is not athletic is a bit of a show stopper for me, same with Ray. Both are outstanding athletes. Shutting down the opposing teams best player at the high D1 level requires supreme athleticism.
There's a difference between just surviving a press (Painter's approach) and attacking a press.Yeah !! If Painter would only teach principles of breaking a press like YOU HAVE....
Son of a gun......last year's NCAA Coach of the year - voted by the COACHES....to go along with his 4 B10 COY awards.....and can't figure this out....
We'll give Matt a call...….see if he can get the A.D. to approve the $$'s for your new position as " Press " Coach...
Good luck !!