This the first Purdue team I can remember that isn't as good as the sum of its parts.

[Abugabby]

Purdue coaches are known for doing more with less, and often get the team to play better than the sum of its parts. I don't see that with this team. This is the only team I can remember in 40 years that should be better than it is. That's a depressing thought.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Purdue coaches are known for doing more with less, and often get the team to play better than the sum of its parts. I don't see that with this team. This is the only team I can remember in 40 years that should be better than it is. That's a depressing thought.

I don’t know. I mean, we have one NBA player.

And our next 2 best players are good low post college centers who really don’t fit with our NBA player.

Then a lot of nice role players.

 

[Boileratthebeach]

I don’t know. I mean, we have one NBA player.

And our next 2 best players are good low post college centers who really don’t fit with our NBA player.

Then a lot of nice role players.

OR this team is still really good and got hosed by terrible officiating during conference play. We were undefeated going into the conference season….

 

[boilermaker75]

OR this team is still really good and got hosed by terrible officiating during conference play. We were undefeated going into the conference season….

Now time to be undefeated out of conference play again!

 

[DAG10]

OR this team is still really good and got hosed by terrible officiating during conference play. We were undefeated going into the conference season….

Absolutely some truth to this...

But, there are some other issues as well...turnovers/free throws namely...some defensive issues (individually and collectively)...and, I don't know that I would consider any player aside of Hunter to be playing their best basketball right now.

 

[DAG10]

I don’t know. I mean, we have one NBA player.

And our next 2 best players are good low post college centers who really don’t fit with our NBA player.

Then a lot of nice role players.

The mere fact that 1 of Purdue's 3 best players is always on the bench is such an odd dynamic as well. And, the one NBA player is just now scratching the surface of his actual potential.

I am still a believer in needing NBA talent to ultimately win...although, admittedly more open to the idea of it being professional ability and not absolutely NBA...as, some guys are good enough to play in the NBA but just don't stick for whatever reason(s).

If a team has 3 legit NBA guys, that probably still lends itself to said team being very good...or at least very talented.

 

[Roeder]

I get what you are saying. We are used to Purdue teams playing better than the talent they have. Recently I've had the thought that the '17 and '18 era teams might have had similar or even better overall talent in hindsight with guys playing the same roles.

Haas vs Edey
Swanigan ('17 only) vs Tre
VE vs Gillis
Mathias vs Sasha
CE vs Ivey
PJ Vs Hunter (This is the only wide advantage for this year's team IMO)
Cline Vs Newman
Eastern ('18 only) Vs Morton

Expectations for this year's team are elevated, and rightfully so, but when I look at these comparisons I think Purdue is playing right about where they should when you look at the overall talent compared to some of the better Purdue teams of the past. What will separate them will be if they can play greater than their sum of parts down the stretch here in March (make FTs, limit TOs, limit defensive breakdowns, role guys hit open 3s) or if Ivey plays the best ball of his career like CE did in '19 and puts them on his back.

 

[Poprudy]

OR this team is still really good and got hosed by terrible officiating during conference play. We were undefeated going into the conference season….

Did you watch the first 2 "play in" games? It's all officiating. How can it be this bad..just bad.

 

[Jbigler1986]

OR this team is still really good and got hosed by terrible officiating during conference play. We were undefeated going into the conference season….

Haha. We beat ourselves in almost every game we lost except for Michigan. Turnovers and missed free throws cost us those games. So nothing to do with the officials.

 

[jmohlman]

The officials are bad in every league and have been for a number of years. I don’t know if it’s the game they got to fast or that they just don’t care. Sometimes it seems like they just don’t care, but I think the majority of them are passionate about being officials and doing their job. So maybe the game is too fast.
We turn the ball over too much and missed too many free throws, one and one misses. count for two or count for another turnover however you want to look at it.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Purdue coaches are known for doing more with less, and often get the team to play better than the sum of its parts. I don't see that with this team. This is the only team I can remember in 40 years that should be better than it is. That's a depressing thought.

What... we're a 27 win team that has played exactly 1 uncompetitive game on a covid reschedule.

 

[Abugabby]

What... we're a 27 win team that has played exactly 1 uncompetitive game on a covid reschedule.

I'm not saying we're bad, just that it feels like something is missing. Cohesiveness? How does a top 10 team have a bajillion turnovers in a championship game? That performance was very disappointing.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

In the big picture, we can see that we have talent for Final Four, but body of work is lucky to get beyond sweet sixteen. Purdue will have to play better without mental errors in lapses of TO ball that goes 4 or more trips down the court and have some luck at the FT line to win tight games to go far. All doable but doubtful for Final Four IMHO.
At the end of the regular season, my gut tells me to hope for more, but expect less.

 

[BBG]

I'm not saying we're bad, just that it feels like something is missing. Cohesiveness? How does a top 10 team have a bajillion turnovers in a championship game? That performance was very disappointing.

Mental toughness fixes all of the issues we have. But that is on the players to overcome, not much anyone can do outside of their own will to do it. And it's not like it's new to them, pre-season they were playing like the top team in the country should so they are capable.

 

[PaBoiler78]

Haha. We beat ourselves in almost every game we lost except for Michigan. Turnovers and missed free throws cost us those games. So nothing to do with the officials.

I agree, just gave to play thru the bad calls sometimes.

 

[BBG]

What... we're a 27 win team that has played exactly 1 uncompetitive game on a covid reschedule.

No matter what happens the rest of the season I think this current team will be looked at as a "turning point" of sorts for the program in a very good way. When you look at the recruits Painter has gotten you can really see an upward trend.

Basically to me, we're seeing what should of happened had the previous AD supported Painter after the Baby Boilers were here.

 

[purduepat1969]

No matter what happens the rest of the season I think this current team will be looked at as a "turning point" of sorts for the program in a very good way. When you look at the recruits Painter has gotten you can really see an upward trend.

Basically to me, we're seeing what should of happened had the previous AD supported Painter after the Baby Boilers were here.

This is very true. Best thing that ever happened to Purdue in general and Purdue athletics was Mitch Daniels. Wish he would have run for President after his governorship, but that's another issue...

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

Mental toughness fixes all of the issues we have. But that is on the players to overcome, not much anyone can do outside of their own will to do it. And it's not like it's new to them, pre-season they were playing like the top team in the country should so they are capable.

100% agree, Purdue is capable & can reel off several good games. Keeping fingers crossed.

 

[FirstDownB]

Purdue coaches are known for doing more with less, and often get the team to play better than the sum of its parts. I don't see that with this team. This is the only team I can remember in 40 years that should be better than it is. That's a depressing thought.

I think this perception depends on your weight scale. Strictly speaking, this is a top 10 team with top 25 talent if you subscribe to the recruiting rankings. So, on that scale they whole is greater than the sum.

When you look at individual players, what they have developed into, and how they are utilized within the system, then the individual talent appears to be much better than top 25.

It is certainly different than a lot of Purdue teams of old, but I think some of that has been simply trading defense for offense and athleticism for skill.

 

[Bethboilerfan]

I'm not saying we're bad, just that it feels like something is missing. Cohesiveness? How does a top 10 team have a bajillion turnovers in a championship game? That performance was very disappointing.

I agree with you but like you, I don't know what the missing piece is. Hunter is playing better than he did earlier but others are not playing nearly as well [Sasha, Edey, et al].

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

No matter what happens the rest of the season I think this current team will be looked at as a "turning point" of sorts for the program in a very good way. When you look at the recruits Painter has gotten you can really see an upward trend.

Basically to me, we're seeing what should of happened had the previous AD supported Painter after the Baby Boilers were here.

One of the best posts I have ever seen! Thank you!

 

[boilernuke]

100% agree, Purdue is capable & can reel off several good games. Keeping fingers crossed.

Seniors need to play and lead like every game is their last...because it pretty much is

 

[boilernuke]

One of the best posts I have ever seen! Thank you!

Jaden having a good deep tourney will pay recruiting dividends like Carsen did

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Jaden having a good deep tourney will pay recruiting dividends like Carsen did

I agree, I say Purdue got Jaden because of what Carsen did in 2019 March Madness.

 

[Abugabby]

I think this perception depends on your weight scale. Strictly speaking, this is a top 10 team with top 25 talent if you subscribe to the recruiting rankings. So, on that scale they whole is greater than the sum.

When you look at individual players, what they have developed into, and how they are utilized within the system, then the individual talent appears to be much better than top 25.

It is certainly different than a lot of Purdue teams of old, but I think some of that has been simply trading defense for offense and athleticism for skill.

Yeah, I say that through the lens of what I've seen this team do this year. We all know Sasha can go 6-10 from deep...it's painful to seem him go 1-8 with that knowledge. We know IT can dribble and dish and shoot the 3. Seeing him disappear at this point in the season is disheartening. How is Eric Hunter Jr. a senior and can't break a press? As soon as any pressure at all is applied, he pulls up his dribble and panics.

 

[BoilerStutz]

There is something off mentally with this team. Perhaps they just lack confidence. But their turnovers and defensive lapses are all avoidable, especially with the experience they have. They have not rounded into the consistent, reliable team I expected them to be. Honestly, they're just not fun to watch because of all the unnecessary mistakes. My guess is that they are not having much fun either. Too much pressure for many of them.

 

[Abugabby]

Too much pressure for many of them.

That might be it. Some guys might be folding under the pressure while others are letting the talk inflate their heads.

 

[BSIT]

OR this team is still really good and got hosed by terrible officiating during conference play. We were undefeated going into the conference season….

I sure hope we see the pre conference team return in time for this week’s tip-off

 

[FirstDownB]

I sure hope we see the pre conference team return in time for this week’s tip-off

Different level of defensive intensity in March. Just went back and watched the Villanova game highlights. They were slow on close outs and not physical with Zach. Teams are playing Purdue much differently late in the season.

 

[proudopete]

I get what you are saying. We are used to Purdue teams playing better than the talent they have. Recently I've had the thought that the '17 and '18 era teams might have had similar or even better overall talent in hindsight with guys playing the same roles.

Haas vs Edey
Swanigan ('17 only) vs Tre
VE vs Gillis
Mathias vs Sasha
CE vs Ivey
PJ Vs Hunter (This is the only wide advantage for this year's team IMO)
Cline Vs Newman
Eastern ('18 only) Vs Morton

Expectations for this year's team are elevated, and rightfully so, but when I look at these comparisons I think Purdue is playing right about where they should when you look at the overall talent compared to some of the better Purdue teams of the past. What will separate them will be if they can play greater than their sum of parts down the stretch here in March (make FTs, limit TOs, limit defensive breakdowns, role guys hit open 3s) or if Ivey plays the best ball of his career like CE did in '19 and puts them on his back.

I think the experience of this team was what had some, myself included, felt would help us this time of year. Sadly, the experienced factor hasn’t panned out as I had hoped it would.

 

[ehuffma1]

I think this perception depends on your weight scale. Strictly speaking, this is a top 10 team with top 25 talent if you subscribe to the recruiting rankings. So, on that scale they whole is greater than the sum.

When you look at individual players, what they have developed into, and how they are utilized within the system, then the individual talent appears to be much better than top 25.

It is certainly different than a lot of Purdue teams of old, but I think some of that has been simply trading defense for offense and athleticism for skill.

I like this post. Here’s something to think about. In a game of one on one, how would our staters fair against their Big10 counterparts.
Hunter- probably in the middle of the pack
Ivey- #1. Maybe Davis is somewhat close
Sasha- bottom. Hard to get a shot off on his own.
Gillis- bottom half. He hasn’t shown abilities to take a Big10 4 to the whole much.
Edey- top half. Hard to say in pure one on one bc of his ball handling.
Williams- def top half.

My point is this. Purdue players not named Ivey or Williams need to get their shot in the offense. Nobody else is a good one on one player. I would also say that this team is in the bottom half in quickness and athleticism as a team despite having quickest and most athletic single player.

Even though as fans we’ve thought we’d never seen the CE equal ever again, a few years later we are seeing Ivey play well. I think in a few years we will see another player just as effective. I think we need to raise our overall team athleticism though to be consistently ok the top 10-15.

 

[purduepat1969]

G

I think this perception depends on your weight scale. Strictly speaking, this is a top 10 team with top 25 talent if you subscribe to the recruiting rankings. So, on that scale they whole is greater than the sum.

When you look at individual players, what they have developed into, and how they are utilized within the system, then the individual talent appears to be much better than top 25.

It is certainly different than a lot of Purdue teams of old, but I think some of that has been simply trading defense for offense and athleticism for skill.

Get what you're saying. But do recruiting rankings really apply for Tre and Edey at this point? IMHO, if Tre played 30 min a game he'd be 1st team all B1G. And Edey is underrated. So if you combine Tre and Zach's stats you probably have an All-American at the center position.

Then you have another All-American in Ivey.

Then factor in the depth and experience on the remainder of the team.

Not many teams have that level of talent...

 

[FirstDownB]

G

Get what you're saying. But do recruiting rankings really apply for Tre and Edey at this point? IMHO, if Tre played 30 min a game he'd be 1st team all B1G. And Edey is underrated. So if you combine Tre and Zach's stats you probably have an All-American at the center position.

Then you have another All-American in Ivey.

Then factor in the depth and experience on the remainder of the team.

Not many teams have that level of talent...

But like you say, Trey and Edey combine for 1 full time player. So we really only effectively have 2 1st team players, not 3, at any given time, with a huge drop-off thereafter. You have one other player on the entire roster who can create his own shot, and several others with low athletic ceilings. So, you need to factor those things into the sum-of-parts calculation.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

G

Get what you're saying. But do recruiting rankings really apply for Tre and Edey at this point? IMHO, if Tre played 30 min a game he'd be 1st team all B1G. And Edey is underrated. So if you combine Tre and Zach's stats you probably have an All-American at the center position.

Then you have another All-American in Ivey.

Then factor in the depth and experience on the remainder of the team.

Not many teams have that level of talent...

Teams like Duke and Kentucky have 3 or more NBA players. We have 1 surefire NBA player.

And I would argue we aren’t as deep as we thought earlier in the year. Iowa probably has a better bench than we do at this point, for example.

I think we are what our record says we are: very good.

 

[purduepat1969]

Teams like Duke and Kentucky have 3 or more NBA players. We have 1 surefire NBA player.

And I would argue we aren’t as deep as we thought earlier in the year. Iowa probably has a better bench than we do at this point, for example.

I think we are what our record says we are: very good.

I think you underestimate how good of depth we really have...

 

[Boileratthebeach]

I think you underestimate how good of depth we really have...

Well again back to my point pre-conference. Our depth was amazing. Everyone practically contributed. HOWEVER, Painter for whatever reason decided to bench Newman (the conspiracy theorist in me says something happened and Newman was being penalized quietly) and shorten the rotation. Depth is what gave us more fouls and put other teams in foul trouble. Obviously if games are getting called different this affects the overall game. Then again we were shooting a lot better FT% in non-conference.

 

[Purdue85]

Well again back to my point pre-conference. Our depth was amazing. Everyone practically contributed. HOWEVER, Painter for whatever reason decided to bench Newman (the conspiracy theorist in me says something happened and Newman was being penalized quietly) and shorten the rotation. Depth is what gave us more fouls and put other teams in foul trouble. Obviously if games are getting called different this affects the overall game. Then again we were shooting a lot better FT% in non-conference.

Newman wasn't being penalized.

As fans, sometimes we need to just let things be, and recognize we won't always get the full picture, but trust that the right things are done for the right reasons.

I'm happy to have him back.

 

[DAG10]

There is something off mentally with this team. Perhaps they just lack confidence. But their turnovers and defensive lapses are all avoidable, especially with the experience they have. They have not rounded into the consistent, reliable team I expected them to be. Honestly, they're just not fun to watch because of all the unnecessary mistakes. My guess is that they are not having much fun either. Too much pressure for many of them.

Some truth to it, and, as much as I like all of them and love Purdue basketball...and, for as enjoyable as this team was to watch in November and December...it has not been the same in that sense admittedly for some time, at least not consistently...even in games like NW, OSU, Minnesota, Penn St., they won, but, they made it way more difficult than it needed to be.

I still think the biggest thing is that there just is no leader on this team, and, that they just are not a group that has any sort of killer instinct at all. There is nobody that will grab somebody after they make a mistake at either end and let them know...there is nobody that wants to upset anyone...they are almost too nice.

Early in the year, they shared the ball to the point of being too unselfish almost...and, everybody was a threat to score.

Great group of guys...easy to like, easy to root for...they support each other...they cheer for each other...they like each other...but, just no real leader and they lack intensity.

The free throw matter is largely a concentration/focus thing...especially for some guys...the turnover matter absolutely is for the most part...those things still being an albatross is incredibly disappointing and frustrating.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I think you underestimate how good of depth we really have...

Maybe. Our bench got handily outscored by Iowa and Michigan State’s benches.

 

[DAG10]

Newman wasn't being penalized.

As fans, sometimes we need to just let things be, and recognize we won't always get the full picture, but trust that the right things are done for the right reasons.

I'm happy to have him back.

It was not a penalty, nor, anything personal.

He was struggling on the floor...it had got in his head...and, Painter decided to shorten the rotation at the same time.

Confidence is so important, and, confidence from your HC is important as well...Newman has never been the same player since he came out of the lineup last year...this is a kid that was essentially the best player on any team that he ever played on, or, at least one of the very best...for his entire basketball career coming up...then, arrives at Purdue, is not able to get minutes and redshirts (which, had to be difficult), bounces back, plays well, and, then is taken out of the lineup...which, again, raised some questions no doubt...Isaiah is dealing with the exact same thing right now/this year.

That is not a knock on them or on Painter, it is just reality. There is probably truth to it with Furst as well for that matter.

Like say, Newman hung in there to his credit...did ALL of the right things, and, got an unexpected opportunity that because he had hung in there and done all of the right things, he was ready and prepared for and took advantage of.