Surprised...jump off the ledge or understandable?

[tjreese]

Should people be concerned with turnovers, poor shooting and Zach getting half the minutes in a game to play? Perhaps? Is Trey/Zach not going to be the best scenario? Perhaps? However, not all offenses are the same and not all offenses are the same at different times of the year. Same with defense.

Typically, defenses are ahead of offense early in the year, especially those that press or put a lot of pressure on the offense...many times due to the offense not being crisp. I think it is safe to say that yesterday, Arkansas hands were active along with the length and quickness. Arkansas was more athletic in more positions...which is needed for the pressure D, but they also outshot Purdue. Arkansas offense was a lot more free lancing with individual efforts while making some pretty tough shots. Transfers (desired) to Arkansas especially older mature players should adapt quicker due to offense simplicity and they already know how athletic they are for the defense played by Arkansas. I have no idea how much slapping took place, but if the refs officiate most games in similar approach, that becomes the norm for them. I have no idea if any of that played any role whatsoever. However, that may well be what Purdue sees in the tourney and if no fouls, Purdue needs to adjust to that defensive play.

Purdue shooting so bad and turning it over (were any forced...were many looks good?) and yet was there at the end to win it...and should have won it. Any reading this...would you expect Purdue's offense to be crisp early in the year being as complex as many have stated? Having players come back mixed with many new faces still takes time to reteach an offense that may be complex. Every coach starts pretty basic with teams early in the year (just as teachers spend the first 6 week session repeating or children spending 3 years (different grades) in fractions). So, there are reasons why Purdue was not sharp and yet there are reasons why poor shooting and turnovers may have little to do with an early game facing an older team super hyped for the game that is very talented and GOOD...at least yesterday.

Those that believe this is the same ole...same ole could be right. That has merit. Those looking at a few things may not hold that view at this time due to the situations at play. That has merit as well. IMO too early to state a declaration of the team based upon the game yesterday since I can find justification for both sides at this time. Did I read that ARkansas already had an exhibition game played?

 

[pubill]

Ark did play an exhibition game earlier, it sounded like little competition. But helped getting off rust , I would think.

I, a BIG Painter fan, saw the following yesterday:
I did not see a much improved TKR, still a little slow, not sure how he can guard outside and saw no game outside the paint.

One of the biggest letdowns to me, was how Braden handled the pressure. He had spells he did fine, but went thru stretches where he looked like he did against Farleigh in tourney, way too many TOs , getting into bad spots and not starting offense quick enough. He did seem much more aggressive , which I liked, but gotta handle the ball.

Loyer was much more aggressive to hoop , than I ever saw last year. Liked that.

Gillis hit 3's, which he did some games last year, need to see it consistently. I know most don't want to hear it, but he may be our mainstay at the 4 again.

Furst showed little to nothing, when he was spelling Zach, Ark had a dunkfest at the rim.

Jones looked like he can help. When Braden first went out, Jones got the ball picked from him for a layup, but after that did fine at point, against as good of pressure as we will see all year. He is not afraid to shoot, some were not good shots at good time, Matt will have to get him to understand that, but like his size and aggressiveness at guard for us. He did seem to be an option to stopping a guard scorer much better than Ethan.


Heide, the 1st time he touched the ball showed us what we were waiting for as he took it to basket and slammed. But got lost on Defense a couple times and did not finish a bunny underneath. We will see....

Colvin hit a nice jumper, did not play much , but looked comfortable with the pace. Matt must get him minutes and see if he can help.

Did not see much improved Ethan. Made a couple good passes when he got in initially, but could not stop his man on defense in 2nd half and showed no inclination to look for his offense.

Edey looked out of sort most of game and we did bad job getting it to him in 1st half. Not worried about him, he did show more quickness guarding on the pick and roll

All in all I did not see any real improvement over last year, but waaaaay early and like all of us, I want to peak in March. But this was definitely a great practice game to get us ready and show where we are at. The more competition we play the better.

 

[Do Dah Day]

My thoughts:
1. Braydon looked slower.
2. Our D was blindsided several times. Colvin especially.
3. TKR didn't amaze me as I hoped he would
4. Yep, we're still slower than the quick teams (not a surprise)
5. I like Heide
6. Jones will help
7. Morton didn't show the great improvement that has been reported
8. As I mentioned a few weeks ago ... Furst will soon lose minutes
9. Loyer - please stay consistent
10. Feed the Gillis

 

[tjreese]

Ark did play an exhibition game earlier, it sounded like little competition. But helped getting off rust , I would think.

I, a BIG Painter fan, saw the following yesterday:
I did not see a much improved TKR, still a little slow, not sure how he can guard outside and saw no game outside the paint.

One of the biggest letdowns to me, was how Braden handled the pressure. He had spells he did fine, but went thru stretches where he looked like he did against Farleigh in tourney, way too many TOs , getting into bad spots and not starting offense quick enough. He did seem much more aggressive , which I liked, but gotta handle the ball.

Loyer was much more aggressive to hoop , than I ever saw last year. Liked that.

Gillis hit 3's, which he did some games last year, need to see it consistently. I know most don't want to hear it, but he may be our mainstay at the 4 again.

Furst showed little to nothing, when he was spelling Zach, Ark had a dunkfest at the rim.

Jones looked like he can help. When Braden first went out, Jones got the ball picked from him for a layup, but after that did fine at point, against as good of pressure as we will see all year. He is not afraid to shoot, some were not good shots at good time, Matt will have to get him to understand that, but like his size and aggressiveness at guard for us. He did seem to be an option to stopping a guard scorer much better than Ethan.


Heide, the 1st time he touched the ball showed us what we were waiting for as he took it to basket and slammed. But got lost on Defense a couple times and did not finish a bunny underneath. We will see....

Colvin hit a nice jumper, did not play much , but looked comfortable with the pace. Matt must get him minutes and see if he can help.

Did not see much improved Ethan. Made a couple good passes when he got in initially, but could not stop his man on defense in 2nd half and showed no inclination to look for his offense.

Edey looked out of sort most of game and we did bad job getting it to him in 1st half. Not worried about him, he did show more quickness guarding on the pick and roll

All in all I did not see any real improvement over last year, but waaaaay early and like all of us, I want to peak in March. But this was definitely a great practice game to get us ready and show where we are at. The more competition we play the better.

The only downsize to great competition is that some players will not get on the court as much. This was good for Purdue

 

[Gman544]

Of course it’s early, but what most were looking for beyond a win was some hint of change for this team and coach. We saw none. No idea on what to do on defense against an athletic team we could not stay in front of. ( no hint they worked on a zone, an exhibition game a good time to try it). A number of possessions forced into Zach for turnover or tried multiple times to get it to him killing the shot clock. Braden driving to lane with no options accept to turnover. New athletic kids did not play much, perhaps because of defensive play. TKR was at best ok, still slow. May not be good with Zach, and can’t play in close games at end because of FT shooting. He may be the next Newman, the one this board thinks can be great, but really just isn’t.

That said, this team will win a lot of games, but with teams understanding how to beat them now, it might not be the 30 win regular season that some predict.

 

[Heads up BOILER]

I am an optimist…but I saw way to many similarities in the problem areas from last season:
1) I at times in the past have supported Morton and his usage, that is coming to an end for me. His lack of production on offense is detrimental to the team, and his offensive contributions outside of shooting are not good enough to make up for the fact we’re basically 4 on 5 as legitimate threats to score for the opposing defense to worry about. He’s decent on entry passes but not elite, his assists are not above average, not aggressive or a threat to get to the rim, rebounding is decent, he’s not nearly the Elite defender some bill him as, quick more athletic opponents he struggles like others to guard, yes he plays better D than some but he’s not a stopper! In my opinion (for what it’s worth) Give him time as a positional sub but he doesn’t need to be getting in the 20 minute range of minutes. Maybe more like 10-15 because there’s other talent that needs those minutes to get them where you want/need them to be and game experience will better develop them instead of only playing in practice against the same teammates. Painter says they need time to develop in reference to the newer guys, taking minutes away from Morton makes sense in the big picture of having more experienced team with options at the end of the year anc into next year.
2) Turnovers! Unforced or reckless turnovers! Less than 10 a game seems like a reasonable goal based on historical data and winning. I would like to see single digits. Smith has to fix his turnover issues as the point guard. 7 TO speaks for itself! Forcing the offense can lead to turnovers. More efficient motion on offense and rapid ball movement to open up the defense would be beneficial.
3) shooting is still not that of a good shooting team. If this team can put together a lineup that shoots 35% or better from 3 and 45(+)% routinely then we will be the elite team deserving of #3 ranking.
4) I believe Cam Heide can develop into a key cog , if given the opportunity to get some PT to develop. Colvin will be really good but is young and needs to come along a little slower but getting some run during the games, that I’d expect to increase as the year progresses and he has some time under his belt.
4) not sure I’m sold on the TKR and Edey big minutes combo as well as the combo of Smith, Jones, Loyer. Need more than just the exhibition game.
5) Jones ad the three? His shooting and shot selection definitely has to be better if he’s going to spend much time at 3 with this combination. He I think will be needed more at the point to spell Smith (especially if the TO stay high), it appears he can run the point. He also can play the 2next to Smith for increased minutes. Paint should use him as the 1-2 guard he was picked up to play and develop one or two guys for the 3 (Heide, Waddell, Colvin) so end of year hopefully they’re ready.
Still an Optimist and always a Diehard fan! BOILER UP!!!🖤💛🏀

 

[typeviic]

Of course it’s early, but what most were looking for beyond a win was some hint of change for this team and coach. We saw none. No idea on what to do on defense against an athletic team we could not stay in front of. ( no hint they worked on a zone, an exhibition game a good time to try it). A number of possessions forced into Zach for turnover or tried multiple times to get it to him killing the shot clock. Braden driving to lane with no options accept to turnover. New athletic kids did not play much, perhaps because of defensive play. TKR was at best ok, still slow. May not be good with Zach, and can’t play in close games at end because of FT shooting. He may be the next Newman, the one this board thinks can be great, but really just isn’t.

That said, this team will win a lot of games, but with teams understanding how to beat them now, it might not be the 30 win regular season that some predict.

"with teams understanding how to beat them now"
Ark did not use the FDU template, which was to allow all of our outside shooters to have open looks and pray we miss. We made contested outside shots, funny how that worked this time.

 

[tjreese]

Of course it’s early, but what most were looking for beyond a win was some hint of change for this team and coach. We saw none. No idea on what to do on defense against an athletic team we could not stay in front of. ( no hint they worked on a zone, an exhibition game a good time to try it). A number of possessions forced into Zach for turnover or tried multiple times to get it to him killing the shot clock. Braden driving to lane with no options accept to turnover. New athletic kids did not play much, perhaps because of defensive play. TKR was at best ok, still slow. May not be good with Zach, and can’t play in close games at end because of FT shooting. He may be the next Newman, the one this board thinks can be great, but really just isn’t.

That said, this team will win a lot of games, but with teams understanding how to beat them now, it might not be the 30 win regular season that some predict.

I don't think you will see a zone out of Matt again. It was a disaster a few years ago and I just don't believe he is going to give it a try. You now have two defensive coaches for Purdue. The FT shooting by Trey is a concern...still hits the back of the rim with little arch it seems. i don't know that Trey can't play with Zach, but if Trey is going to be played similar to previous 4s, then players that more closely resemble previous 4s may be needed. Game experience for Brian/Cam and Myles is pretty much nil at this time. I personally don't believe Arkansas forced turnovers. That is NOT to take away Arkansas defensive effort, but to put the blame on Purdue's players for ill advised decisions. I think ARkansas played much closer to their abilities than Purdue did and yet Purdue should have won the game. I can't recall (and I could be very wrong) Purdue shooting a last second shot due to the clock, but do recall Arkansas hitting two definite and maybe 3 or 4 (I remember the shots, but not sure how close the clock was to 0 on only two of them?

There really isn't a new understanding how to beat Purdue...just need the right kind of team and Purdue to perhaps not play as well as they should. It all starts with Zach (24 minutes out of 45 possible). These teams try to pressure the perimeter to push the perimeter out and Zach to follow and pressure the pass while playing Zach at least 3/4 and sometimes full denial. Lobbing to Zach is a softer (slower pass) and Zach isn't as nimble in traffic for those that give him no room. He struggles with quickness and taking space away from him. Still playing less than he will in any close game (24/45 or 53% of the game) and still getting 15 pts and 9 boards is pretty good for such a few minutes. I did see Mason drive a couple of times...one for 2 and another for a turnover. I saw some Purdue players talking about the shoving and slapping and it was probably legit, but if that is how the game is called that very well may be the way it is called in the tourney as well.

 

[SaratogaBoiler1]

I couldn’t watch the game but I’m hoping Colvin can improve his D and get more minutes - I really think he could be a huge difference maker come March

 

[Do Dah Day]

I don't think you will see a zone out of Matt again. It was a disaster a few years ago and I just don't believe he is going to give it a try. You now have two defensive coaches for Purdue. The FT shooting by Trey is a concern...still hits the back of the rim with little arch it seems. i don't know that Trey can't play with Zach, but if Trey is going to be played similar to previous 4s, then players that more closely resemble previous 4s may be needed. Game experience for Brian/Cam and Myles is pretty much nil at this time. I personally don't believe Arkansas forced turnovers. That is NOT to take away Arkansas defensive effort, but to put the blame on Purdue's players for ill advised decisions. I think ARkansas played much closer to their abilities than Purdue did and yet Purdue should have won the game. I can't recall (and I could be very wrong) Purdue shooting a last second shot due to the clock, but do recall Arkansas hitting two definite and maybe 3 or 4 (I remember the shots, but not sure how close the clock was to 0 on only two of them?

There really isn't a new understanding how to beat Purdue...just need the right kind of team and Purdue to perhaps not play as well as they should. It all starts with Zach (24 minutes out of 45 possible). These teams try to pressure the perimeter to push the perimeter out and Zach to follow and pressure the pass while playing Zach at least 3/4 and sometimes full denial. Lobbing to Zach is a softer (slower pass) and Zach isn't as nimble in traffic for those that give him no room. He struggles with quickness and taking space away from him. Still playing less than he will in any close game (24/45 or 53% of the game) and still getting 15 pts and 9 boards is pretty good for such a few minutes. I did see Mason drive a couple of times...one for 2 and another for a turnover. I saw some Purdue players talking about the shoving and slapping and it was probably legit, but if that is how the game is called that very well may be the way it is called in the tourney as well.

I doubt I have seen a worse FT shot than TKR's ... from his belly flat to the back of the rim. I am shocked at (for one game or maybe the last three) Braydon's Basketball IQ (Forgive me lord, for I have sinned). I was surprised that Zack brought the ball low enough to get slapped away. I suspected the CA National experience would have eliminated that.
We have a LOT of work to do. But ... it is basic stuff. Well, other than TKR's FT shot.

 

[mryankee2397]

I doubt I have seen a worse FT shot than TKR's ... from his belly flat to the back of the rim. I am shocked at (for one game or maybe the last three) Braydon's Basketball IQ (Forgive me lord, for I have sinned). I was surprised that Zack brought the ball low enough to get slapped away. I suspected the CA National experience would have eliminated that.
We have a LOT of work to do. But ... it is basic stuff. Well, other than TKR's FT shot.

Nojel eastern had the worst ft and fg shot ever.

 

[Gman544]

Zones don’t work if you don’t practice it. Guess they aren’t. How to beat Purdue. Pressure and tire out Smith and force turnovers. Double and triple team Zach and force turnovers or disjointed possessions. Make Purdue beat you with threes and hope they have one of their 15-25% shooting games. Arkansas did all of this. Even with that, Purdue has the talent that when they lose most times it will be close.

 

[tjreese]

I doubt I have seen a worse FT shot than TKR's ... from his belly flat to the back of the rim. I am shocked at (for one game or maybe the last three) Braydon's Basketball IQ (Forgive me lord, for I have sinned). I was surprised that Zack brought the ball low enough to get slapped away. I suspected the CA National experience would have eliminated that.
We have a LOT of work to do. But ... it is basic stuff. Well, other than TKR's FT shot.

Yes, there is a lot that "can" be cleaned up. I didn't see Braden leaving the floor and then deciding where to pass I don't believe, and perhaps that is an improvement? I think Matt wanting him to look towards the basket more would suggest less need to make everything happen for the team and being more selective. I'm still perplexed that Matt played Trey as the previous 4s. When I heard he would play the four I ass|u|me he would use him different and the team would be a bit more smoking Joe Frazier punching to the belly until the arms dropped and then found the knockout punch open behind the arc. Trey is long on his FTS almost 100% of the time he misses. Why, then fix it!

 

[Dryfly88]

TKR has the ball too far out in front of him when he shoots FT's. Ends up with more "push" then true shooting of the ball. Needs fixed or he will always be a poor FT shooter.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

Yes, there is a lot that "can" be cleaned up.

TJ, are you more or less confident in the season after watching yesterday? I couldn't watch it but appreciate your detailed insight.

 

[tjreese]

I am an optimist…but I saw way to many similarities in the problem areas from last season:
1) I at times in the past have supported Morton and his usage, that is coming to an end for me. His lack of production on offense is detrimental to the team, and his offensive contributions outside of shooting are not good enough to make up for the fact we’re basically 4 on 5 as legitimate threats to score for the opposing defense to worry about. He’s decent on entry passes but not elite, his assists are not above average, not aggressive or a threat to get to the rim, rebounding is decent, he’s not nearly the Elite defender some bill him as, quick more athletic opponents he struggles like others to guard, yes he plays better D than some but he’s not a stopper! In my opinion (for what it’s worth) Give him time as a positional sub but he doesn’t need to be getting in the 20 minute range of minutes. Maybe more like 10-15 because there’s other talent that needs those minutes to get them where you want/need them to be and game experience will better develop them instead of only playing in practice against the same teammates. Painter says they need time to develop in reference to the newer guys, taking minutes away from Morton makes sense in the big picture of having more experienced team with options at the end of the year anc into next year.
2) Turnovers! Unforced or reckless turnovers! Less than 10 a game seems like a reasonable goal based on historical data and winning. I would like to see single digits. Smith has to fix his turnover issues as the point guard. 7 TO speaks for itself! Forcing the offense can lead to turnovers. More efficient motion on offense and rapid ball movement to open up the defense would be beneficial.
3) shooting is still not that of a good shooting team. If this team can put together a lineup that shoots 35% or better from 3 and 45(+)% routinely then we will be the elite team deserving of #3 ranking.
4) I believe Cam Heide can develop into a key cog , if given the opportunity to get some PT to develop. Colvin will be really good but is young and needs to come along a little slower but getting some run during the games, that I’d expect to increase as the year progresses and he has some time under his belt.
4) not sure I’m sold on the TKR and Edey big minutes combo as well as the combo of Smith, Jones, Loyer. Need more than just the exhibition game.
5) Jones ad the three? His shooting and shot selection definitely has to be better if he’s going to spend much time at 3 with this combination. He I think will be needed more at the point to spell Smith (especially if the TO stay high), it appears he can run the point. He also can play the 2next to Smith for increased minutes. Paint should use him as the 1-2 guard he was picked up to play and develop one or two guys for the 3 (Heide, Waddell, Colvin) so end of year hopefully they’re ready.
Still an Optimist and always a Diehard fan! BOILER UP!!!🖤💛🏀

Lot of time for Myles\Cam\Brian to get comfortable and I bet they do. I think Purdue's issues have been well stated. 1)missing too many open looks 2)unforced turnovers subtracting possessions that rebounding added (some due to increased emphasis getting the ball into the post. I have to believe PJ "WILL" help Braden in being more selective. However, it wasn't too long ago that people wanted PJ to not be so cautious and to make things happen as a player. So we have a double edged knife. 3) Shooters that don't shoot well and are even worse as scorers 4) dribble penetration has been a problem every since the rules were to allow more freedom of movement on the perimeter and even more so since Matt recruits skill over athletic ability if close to being equal.

 

[tjreese]

TKR has the ball too far out in front of him when he shoots FT's. Ends up with more "push" then true shooting of the ball. Needs fixed or he will always be a poor FT shooter.

I wish I knew how much the coaches work on shooting...and HOW they work on it because it has been an issue for a long time. Dick Baumgartner wanted a "large fist" between ball and chest. However, pretend you have the ball lifting it up and if too close you will feel the shoulders tighten up. Hobbie on the other hand had the wrist bent and lifted thumb above eye comfortably. Between the two (and both had fame to claim) Dick was more mechanical in breaking things down and Ernie was smoother and maybe simpler IMO. This is an OLD video of Dick with his son Rick. The lady, I can't recall her name, but she coached girls at Western High school back in the early to mid 90s I think. Seems like her name started with a C, but can't recall. It appears Dick started with the 1-2 stop and then went to hand placement around here (hope I didn't miss anything). here is Ernie I personally like his approach although Dick does get a bit more specific, but Dick's is a bit more mechanical than desired IMO

 

[tjreese]

TJ, are you more or less confident in the season after watching yesterday? I couldn't watch it but appreciate your detailed insight.

I'm unaffected. I see problems and I know how some could be due to Purdue's offense as far as feeding Zach due to the timing needed for many of the entry type passes when armies are devoted to stopping Zach and yet these problems have existed before and so I'm just kind of a wait and see. I accept that Purdue will never be as good in stopping dribble penetration as a more athletic team, but that trade off was suppose to be with better skill and yet Purdue misses a LOT of open looks. Arkansas played really well and is a very athletic, talented team that played at home with a really fired up team and fans.

Arkansas played really well, lots of great individual effort and made some really tough shots with between 2 and 3 just beating the shot clock. Purdue didn't play well and many problems were identified and yet with 31 seconds left and Purdue up 3 after not playing well Purdue had control of the game or would have almost all the time, but Arkansas hit a big 3 to tie it up in regulation. This not long after Zach missed an open dunk and zach playing half a game (53%) which will not happen the rest of the year in a close game and so there were a lot of things that were problematic that were repeats of previous games and yet with all that Purdue should have still won the game. With ALL of the problems (which were legit) Purdue should have won the game against an older, good, athletic talented team that played well and so there are just as many reasons if not more to be hopeful IMO

 

[Dryfly88]

I wish I knew how much the coaches work on shooting...and HOW they work on it because it has been an issue for a long time. Dick Baumgartner wanted a "fist" between ball and chest

Yeah, I'm not going to try and sell myself as some shooting guru, but when I see him shoot FT's it just amazes me that they haven't made him get the ball closer to his body. That push motion is an awful way to try and be a consistently good shooter.

 

[tjreese]

Yeah, I'm not going to try and sell myself as some shooting guru, but when I see him shoot FT's it just amazes me that they haven't made him get the ball closer to his body. That push motion is an awful way to try and be a consistently good shooter.

I edited my previous post with a an old video of Dick's. I never watched it long to see how well it covers your concern.

 

[Dryfly88]

I edited my previous post with a an old video of Dick's. I never watched it long to see how well it covers your concern.

I remember him. He was at a camp I attended when in HS a million years ago. I honestly don't remember any of his techniques.

I hope they get TKR fixed because he is going to get fouled a lot, if he plays serious minutes. But keep this up and he won't be playing at the end of close games.

 

[tjreese]

I remember him. He was at a camp I attended when in HS a million years ago. I honestly don't remember any of his techniques.

I hope they get TKR fixed because he is going to get fouled a lot, if he plays serious minutes. But keep this up and he won't be playing at the end of close games.

Yes, he and Ernie have both died and have no idea today who the guru is teaching shooting...probably Rick Baumgartner and an Ernie disciple. Actually, if they don't use Trey a bit different I can see him losing out on the four position and if it happens it is good for Trey to understand why knowing he had his chance.

 

[Boiler Buck]

My surprise is that we were in a position to win considering.....
1. The athleticism of A
2. The length of A
3. The foul trouble of ZE
4. The poor shooting
5. The turnovers of all esp Smith
6. Away game in a fired up arena

Yet with all that we were right there even after a woeful first half.

 

[tjreese]

My surprise is that we were in a position to win considering.....
1. The athleticism of A
2. The length of A
3. The foul trouble of ZE
4. The poor shooting
5. The turnovers of all esp Smith
6. Away game in a fired up arena

Yet with all that we were right there even after a woeful first half.

That is reality. The other is speculation that may or may not be true

 

[Do Dah Day]

Yes, he and Ernie have both died and have no idea today who the guru is teaching shooting...probably Rick Baumgartner and an Ernie disciple. Actually, if they don't use Trey a bit different I can see him losing out on the four position and if it happens it is good for Trey to understand why knowing he had his chance.

Rick said "screw it" many years ago ...true shooting has gone over the dam and far downstream!

Things like "45 degree angle for both your elbow and wrist, elbow above your eyebrow, land in your feet, and others ... "SHOOT out of a phone booth" has no meaning today!

 

[Nappanee]

Purdue - Arkansas Box Score from this site.

#	Player	PTS	FG	3FG	FT	OR	DR	REB	A	PF	TO	BL	ST	MIN
2*	LOYER,F	15	6-13	2-6	1-2	0	4	4	2	4	1	0	1	32
3*	SMITH,B	12	3-10	2-6	4-4	2	3	5	4	1	7	1	0	37
4*	KAUFMAN-RENN,T	9	4-7	0-0	1-4	2	1	3	0	2	4	0	0	20
15*	EDEY,Z	15	4-8	0-0	7-8	5	4	9	0	5	2	1	1	24
55*	JONES,L	9	2-11	1-5	4-6	1	0	1	2	1	2	0	2	27
0	GILLIS,M	13	5-10	3-8	0-0	0	6	6	1	1	3	0	1	30
1	FURST,C	0	0-3	0-1	0-1	0	2	2	1	2	1	0	1	13
5	COLVIN,M	2	1-1	0-0	0-0	0	1	1	0	0	0	1	0	5
11	WADDELL,B	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	4
23	HEIDE,C	2	1-4	0-1	0-0	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	12
25	MORTON,E	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	4	4	0	1	0	0	1	21
TM	TEAM,		-	-	-	3	3	6		0	0
TOTALS	77	26-67	8-27	17-25	14	28	42	10	17	20	3	7
GAME PCT	38.8	29.6	68.0
OVERTIME	8	2-7	1-2	3-4	0	3	3	1	5	1	1	0
OT PCT	28.6	50.0	75.0

#	Player	PTS	FG	3FG	FT	OR	DR	REB	A	PF	TO	BL	ST	MIN
2*	BRAZILE,T	15	4-7	2-4	5-5	0	5	5	1	0	2	1	3	31
3*	ELLIS,E	12	5-10	1-3	1-1	0	3	3	3	3	2	0	0	27
4*	DAVIS,D	2	1-3	0-1	0-0	1	1	2	4	3	3	0	3	22
8*	LAWSON,C	10	3-4	1-2	3-3	0	2	2	0	4	2	3	3	33
12*	MARK,T	15	5-10	1-1	4-8	0	6	6	4	4	0	2	1	36
0	BATTLE,K	12	5-11	2-6	0-0	0	5	5	0	2	2	0	1	32
5	PINION,J	0	0-1	0-1	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	6
6	BLOCKER,L	6	3-4	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	1	3	1	0	0	8
15	MITCHELL,M	4	2-4	0-1	0-0	0	3	3	0	5	2	1	2	20
24	DAVENPORT,J	5	2-5	1-4	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	1	11
TM	TEAM,		-	-	-	0	2	2		0	0
TOTALS	81	30-59	8-23	13-17	1	27	28	13	24	15	7	14
GAME PCT	50.8	34.8	76.5
OVERTIME	12	3-5	0-0	6-9	0	5	5	0	2	1	0	1
OT PCT	60.0	0	66.7

 

[Boiler Buck]

Purdue - Arkansas Box Score from this site.

#	Player	PTS	FG	3FG	FT	OR	DR	REB	A	PF	TO	BL	ST	MIN
2*	LOYER,F	15	6-13	2-6	1-2	0	4	4	2	4	1	0	1	32
3*	SMITH,B	12	3-10	2-6	4-4	2	3	5	4	1	7	1	0	37
4*	KAUFMAN-RENN,T	9	4-7	0-0	1-4	2	1	3	0	2	4	0	0	20
15*	EDEY,Z	15	4-8	0-0	7-8	5	4	9	0	5	2	1	1	24
55*	JONES,L	9	2-11	1-5	4-6	1	0	1	2	1	2	0	2	27
0	GILLIS,M	13	5-10	3-8	0-0	0	6	6	1	1	3	0	1	30
1	FURST,C	0	0-3	0-1	0-1	0	2	2	1	2	1	0	1	13
5	COLVIN,M	2	1-1	0-0	0-0	0	1	1	0	0	0	1	0	5
11	WADDELL,B	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	4
23	HEIDE,C	2	1-4	0-1	0-0	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	12
25	MORTON,E	0	0-0	0-0	0-0	0	4	4	0	1	0	0	1	21
TM	TEAM,		-	-	-	3	3	6		0	0
TOTALS	77	26-67	8-27	17-25	14	28	42	10	17	20	3	7
GAME PCT	38.8	29.6	68.0
OVERTIME	8	2-7	1-2	3-4	0	3	3	1	5	1	1	0
OT PCT	28.6	50.0	75.0

#	Player	PTS	FG	3FG	FT	OR	DR	REB	A	PF	TO	BL	ST	MIN
2*	BRAZILE,T	15	4-7	2-4	5-5	0	5	5	1	0	2	1	3	31
3*	ELLIS,E	12	5-10	1-3	1-1	0	3	3	3	3	2	0	0	27
4*	DAVIS,D	2	1-3	0-1	0-0	1	1	2	4	3	3	0	3	22
8*	LAWSON,C	10	3-4	1-2	3-3	0	2	2	0	4	2	3	3	33
12*	MARK,T	15	5-10	1-1	4-8	0	6	6	4	4	0	2	1	36
0	BATTLE,K	12	5-11	2-6	0-0	0	5	5	0	2	2	0	1	32
5	PINION,J	0	0-1	0-1	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	6
6	BLOCKER,L	6	3-4	0-0	0-0	0	0	0	1	3	1	0	0	8
15	MITCHELL,M	4	2-4	0-1	0-0	0	3	3	0	5	2	1	2	20
24	DAVENPORT,J	5	2-5	1-4	0-0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	1	11
TM	TEAM,		-	-	-	0	2	2		0	0
TOTALS	81	30-59	8-23	13-17	1	27	28	13	24	15	7	14
GAME PCT	50.8	34.8	76.5
OVERTIME	12	3-5	0-0	6-9	0	5	5	0	2	1	0	1
OT PCT	60.0	0	66.7

Morton 21 minutes with 0-0 stat line. Still the CMP love for M continues regardless. Did anyone think it wouldn't?

Only point it out as Colvin & Heide 5 & 12 minutes respectively, who both need floor experience . It's not like M was Mr. D out there either where he was deserving minutes there....argh.

 

[PurdueDave]

Morton 21 minutes with 0-0 stat line. Still the CMP love for M continues regardless. Did anyone think it wouldn't?

Only point it out as Colvin & Heide 5 & 12 minutes respectively. It's not like M was Mr. D out there either where he was deserving minutes there....argh.

Seemed like Painter wanted to win this game too much. I would take the L and let the younger guys play more. Hopefully we'll see more of them Wednesday.

 

[Wolegib]

In the past Purdue was a lot better than our completion in the preseason and early in the year! It appeared yesterday that Purdue no longer has that advantage. And really hasn’t improved any over last year. This is still a good team, but it doesn’t appear as if any player elevated their game or even worked on their game very much.

This team did not really show the world that their last loss had any impact on their focus or their motivation to play the game. They are the exact same team we saw lose to a 16th seed in the tourney!

 

[Boiler Buck]

Seemed like Painter wanted to win this game too much. I would take the L and let the younger guys play more. Hopefully we'll see more of them Wednesday.

That's just poor coach evaluation of what is actually happening on the floor then. Because it's not like Morton was a force out there on either side. Esp on D, where more guys went by him than illegals @ the border.

 

[northside100]

Of course it’s early, but what most were looking for beyond a win was some hint of change for this team and coach. We saw none. No idea on what to do on defense against an athletic team we could not stay in front of. ( no hint they worked on a zone, an exhibition game a good time to try it). A number of possessions forced into Zach for turnover or tried multiple times to get it to him killing the shot clock. Braden driving to lane with no options accept to turnover. New athletic kids did not play much, perhaps because of defensive play. TKR was at best ok, still slow. May not be good with Zach, and can’t play in close games at end because of FT shooting. He may be the next Newman, the one this board thinks can be great, but really just isn’t.

That said, this team will win a lot of games, but with teams understanding how to beat them now, it might not be the 30 win regular season that some predict.

Agree with most of this aside from the zone comment and your conclusion. For all of those issues, one of which we better hope doesn't repeat itself (Zach in foul trouble), going to OT on the road against a very athletic and very aggressive Arkansas team seems encouraging to me. I'd rather have shot the ball well, had Zach stay out of foul trouble and win easily, but I suspect that would have led to false hope in the same way that this result likely results in false alarm.

 

[Wolegib]

Rather than jumping off a ledge I believe it’s time Purdue fans started to develop more realistic expectations for this team! Edey was the NCAA player of the year but not wanted by any NBA team. And the Canadian world games team didn’t really want him either! And he’s our best player!

We just lost to Arkansas. They are not Kansas or Duke! Purdue is still a top 20 team, but please don’t get your hopes up too high that this will finally their year!

 

[PurdueDave]

That's just poor coach evaluation of what is actually happening on the floor then. Because it's not like Morton was a force out there on either side. Esp on D, where more guys went by him than illegals @ the border.

Yeah, that's very true

 

[tjreese]

Seemed like Painter wanted to win this game too much. I would take the L and let the younger guys play more. Hopefully we'll see more of them Wednesday.

he still has to get the team ready for some big games and this may be the last chance until then I expect the next couple of games we see more minutes for Cam/Myles and Brian. You have to improve and you need to win and you have some promising players that need minutes. All three need to take place. Someone needs to really see why Caleb is not contributing more...

 

[tjreese]

That's just poor coach evaluation of what is actually happening on the floor then. Because it's not like Morton was a force out there on either side. Esp on D, where more guys went by him than illegals @ the border.

just a bit of hyperbole comparing to the border, but point made.

 

[PurdueDave]

he still has to get the team ready for some big games and this may be the last chance until then I expect the next couple of games we see more minutes for Cam/Myles and Brian. You have to improve and you need to win and you have some promising players that need minutes. All three need to take place. Someone needs to really see why Caleb is not contributing more...

Tough balancing act for sure.

 

[northside100]

Rather than jumping off a ledge I believe it’s time Purdue fans started to develop more realistic expectations for this team! Edey was the NCAA player of the year but not wanted by any NBA team. And the Canadian world games team didn’t really want him either! And he’s our best player!

I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say here. Literally the most dominant player in college last year and the only collegiate player on a Canadian National team that was full of seasoned NBA players. He's the best player in the country, why would you not expect him to be Purdue's best player?

Are you just looking for attention?

 

[Chi-Boiler]

Rather than jumping off a ledge I believe it’s time Purdue fans started to develop more realistic expectations for this team! Edey was the NCAA player of the year but not wanted by any NBA team. And the Canadian world games team didn’t really want him either! And he’s our best player!

We just lost to Arkansas. They are not Kansas or Duke! Purdue is still a top 20 team, but please don’t get your hopes up too high that this will finally their year!

I nominate this post as the worst of the year. Can I get a second?

 

[northside100]

I'm unaffected. I see problems and I know how some could be due to Purdue's offense as far as feeding Zach due to the timing needed for many of the entry type passes when armies are devoted to stopping Zach and yet these problems have existed before and so I'm just kind of a wait and see. I accept that Purdue will never be as good in stopping dribble penetration as a more athletic team, but that trade off was suppose to be with better skill and yet Purdue misses a LOT of open looks. Arkansas played really well and is a very athletic, talented team that played at home with a really fired up team and fans.

Arkansas played really well, lots of great individual effort and made some really tough shots with between 2 and 3 just beating the shot clock. Purdue didn't play well and many problems were identified and yet with 31 seconds left and Purdue up 3 after not playing well Purdue had control of the game or would have almost all the time, but Arkansas hit a big 3 to tie it up in regulation. This not long after Zach missed an open dunk and zach playing half a game (53%) which will not happen the rest of the year in a close game and so there were a lot of things that were problematic that were repeats of previous games and yet with all that Purdue should have still won the game. With ALL of the problems (which were legit) Purdue should have won the game against an older, good, athletic talented team that played well and so there are just as many reasons if not more to be hopeful IMO

Agree with your overall take, I didn't see anything that has me on cloud 9 but didn't see anything that caused me to lose optimism either.

You're more mentally and emotionally mature than I am but I refuse to consider it Zach 'missing a dunk' when his arms got raked on the catch and the guy pulled at his waist when Zach got by him. I know, no whistle, no foul but wow. Between that and Zach getting fouled at least twice in five seconds prior to his defender faking a flail when Zach picked up his third the officiating crew should be embarrassed with how they called the game with respect to Zach.

 

[jdbrees922]

Same old shit to me . Loyer and Smith getting waxed by more athletic teams and playing 32 and 37 minutes. Morton plays 21 minutes and no shots . Thought Painter learned but apparently not. Absolutely must play Colvin and Heide, we need athletes.