RayD's PT...

[Treyit31]

A win is a win, but Ray D cannot be on the floor for 36 minutes Saturday with the production he had tonight. This team plays great team D but obviously struggles to score. Vince had a few good buckets tonight but Mathis or Cline need about 10 of Ray's mins just to avoid the ever so common scoring droughts.

 

[spradecki]

A win is a win, but Ray D cannot be on the floor for 36 minutes Saturday with the production he had tonight. This team plays great team D but obviously struggles to score. Vince had a few good buckets tonight but Mathis or Cline need about 10 of Ray's mins just to avoid the ever so common scoring droughts.

ZERO chance this happens

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

Look for Ray to step up against IU

 

[rjmpu82]

Our offense is what will determine what happens the rest of this year. Our defense and rebounding are good enough to take us a long way. Our offense most of the time is poor.

 

[lbodel]

A win is a win, but Ray D cannot be on the floor for 36 minutes Saturday with the production he had tonight. This team plays great team D but obviously struggles to score. Vince had a few good buckets tonight but Mathis or Cline need about 10 of Ray's mins just to avoid the ever so common scoring droughts.

Think back to our games against IU last year. We were GREAT on them defensively. Davis played 36 minutes at Mackey and 37 minutes in Bloomington.

If you think we're going to out-offense IU, you're silly. We're going to win by defense. IU scored in the 60s both games last year.

And also, Davis feasted on IU offensively last year. At Mackey, he led Purdue in scoring with 19 points. This was heavily because Purdue basically used Hammons as our own pawn and opened up wide open space for our guards to penetrate. I don't think it'll be that easy this year and AJ will need to have a strong game (he only shot 4 times at Purdue, but was more involved at IU).

 

[lbodel]

Our offense is what will determine what happens the rest of this year. Our defense and rebounding are good enough to take us a long way. Our offense most of the time is poor.

I don't think I'd say poor.

In conference only stats, Purdue is 4th in scoring offense with 73.9 points a game, 8th in FG percentage and 6th in 3 point FG percentage.

It's certainly not great, but I wouldn't say poor.

Also, it's somewhat baffling that we're better conference-wide in 3 point shooting than overall FG - considering our big guys should be making shots at a high percentage. I think this shows Swanigan's struggles, as well as AJ not dominating in games he should be (ala Michigan).

 

[njm8845]

I'm shocked we're not lower in 3% rank.

 

[Treyit31]

Think back to our games against IU last year. We were GREAT on them defensively. Davis played 36 minutes at Mackey and 37 minutes in Bloomington.

If you think we're going to out-offense IU, you're silly. We're going to win by defense. IU scored in the 60s both games last year.

And also, Davis feasted on IU offensively last year. At Mackey, he led Purdue in scoring with 19 points. This was heavily because Purdue basically used Hammons as our own pawn and opened up wide open space for our guards to penetrate. I don't think it'll be that easy this year and AJ will need to have a strong game (he only shot 4 times at Purdue, but was more involved at IU).

I never said Purdue needs to out offense IU, but Purdue will need to score in Bloomington. Team D is where this game will be won, but having cline or Mathis spacing the floor is key for Hammons. 36 min is too much to produce only 2pts 2boards 1 assist.

 

[lbodel]

I never said Purdue needs to out offense IU, but Purdue will need to score in Bloomington. Team D is where this game will be won, but having cline or Mathis spacing the floor is key for Hammons. 36 min is too much to produce only 2pts 2boards 1 assist.

Nobody said we want 2 points from him. But that's also not his typical game. Do we want him to play exactly like he did against NW? No, but that's not his average game.

But to neglect what he brings defensively is a big mistake. If he's being effective on defense, then it's hard to make a case for taking him out. If he's not being effective on defense, then it's another story.

 

[DG10]

Nobody said we want 2 points from him. But that's also not his typical game. Do we want him to play exactly like he did against NW? No, but that's not his average game.

But to neglect what he brings defensively is a big mistake. If he's being effective on defense, then it's hard to make a case for taking him out. If he's not being effective on defense, then it's another story.

Here is the real issue, at least in my mind...he admitted to dialing it in for the MSU game, and in turn, he had his best game of the year...at both ends of the floor. He has been all but invisible at the offensive end of the floor the majority of the season, but especially in conference play and Purdue simply cannot have that...they get little from the PG position and cannot afford to have little to nothing from the SG position as well, especially from a guy that has the ability to do more and should be expected to do more as well...he needs to provide some consistency, and Purdue needs it as well.

 

[rgarlitz]

I don't know that I'd do a Mathias-for-Ray Day swap right now.

Dakota hasn't scored in double figures since Rutgers and is 10-26 from the field since. I like Mathias, and I think he'll develop into a fine player at Purdue. But Ray Day's experience, tenacity, and leadership are all must haves in Bloomington.

Cline seems to be coming on as a shooter. I would try to find some looks for him.

 

[FirstDownB]

Here are the facts about Davis on the road this season:
6.6 PPG, .375 FG% in conference road games
His highest point total on the road - 11 pts @Rutgers (where the team scored 107). It was only his 10th highest point total of the season.

Bottom line is Ray has been struggling offensively on the road all season. Its not entirely clear why, but he does. Consistently. Would love to see him turn that around on Saturday and, regardless, he is needed in this game for his defense. But if we fall behind and the offense is not clicking, he may need to find the bench.

 

[lbodel]

Here are the facts about Davis on the road this season:
6.6 PPG, .375 FG% in conference road games
His highest point total on the road - 11 pts @Rutgers (where the team scored 107). It was only his 10th highest point total of the season.

Bottom line is Ray has been struggling offensively on the road all season. Its not entirely clear why, but he does. Consistently. Would love to see him turn that around on Saturday and, regardless, he is needed in this game for his defense. But if we fall behind and the offense is not clicking, he may need to find the bench.

Again, there's a lot of variables at play. Obviously if we're down by 20, a guy like Cline may see more minutes.

But there is absolutely no "cap" being put on Davis' minutes going into a game because he is our best defender and arguably (and probably) the best defender in the conference. Playing a very perimeter oriented, high-powered offense - I don't see why you'd be planning on ANYTHING except getting Davis to be locked in on their offensive powers.

He's not in there to score 20 points a game. Do we want him to score 2 points? Absolutely not. Has he had some struggles this season? Absolutely.

Is he critical for us shutting down IU as best we can? Absolutely.

Pick your poison, I'll take the league's best defender.

 

[Treyit31]

It's not trading one or the other - I'm just saying take 8-10 min and give them to someone that can score. He should play 25-28 per game...but there are always a few stretches in the 2nd half were purdue's offense sucks. It's a reality...and something needs to change with the 2nd half O.

 

[spradecki]

he admitted to dialing it in for the MSU game, and in turn, he had his best game of the year...at both ends

if he did that every game. wow

why didn't coach call time out and get in his face like he did AJH in a recent game. TIC

 

[since1980]

I've been as hard on Ray as anybody this year because when he plays well Purdue plays well...but the more I watch Purdue the more I realize why both Ray and Vince haven't produced consistently offensively...which is basically because of how or offense is set up.

They both know option #1 is to get the ball inside to Hammons/Haas. So when they catch the ball on the perimeter, 95% of the time Hammons/Haas are on the block waiting for post entry. Therefore those guys hold the ball to try to make the entry pass...and if they can't make it, they reverse the ball back to the other side. If they are able to enter the ball, they either clear out or play inside out which is why Ray has taken a lot of 3's this year, because that is generally when he finds himself open. Same with Vince. Vince has stopped taking as many 3's and has been looking to drive more which is good...especially when Swanigan is out of the game and Vince can attack opposing 4 men..

But I basically think those guys struggle offensively for the obvious reason that our #1,#2 and #3 options are to pound the ball inside to Swanigan/Hammons/Haas and since we have massive big men clogging the lane usually drawing 2 defenders...that disables Ray or Vince to attack unless they just decide to be ultra aggressive and do so.

I think if I were Painter, I would find ways early in the game to give Ray and Vince room to attack the rim...get Hammons out of the paint. Those guys usually play well if they hit a few shots early in the game and Purdue looks like an entirely different team offensively. I'm not sure why we can't play more 2 man pick and roll options with those guys and clear out the other side. Painter probably is worried the screener will pick up a cheap foul.

I'd like to see Hill continue to get more PT as well in 2nd halves because I think he is more capable of rebounding and attacking the rim than what PJ can bring later in games.

 

[JohnHoosierr]

Ray will definitely be missed next year. But with basil back I don't think we'll have to much drop off. Possibly an upgrade.

 

[PaBoiler78]

Ray will definitely be missed next year. But with basil back I don't think we'll have to much drop off. Possibly an upgrade.

people mention Mathias and Cline for offense which they should, but one thing that has hurt our team , and I'm a KS backer, is that we are basically getting zero production from a highly rated recruit in his Jr.year.

 

[Dakota Girl]

people mention Mathias and Cline for offense which they should, but one thing that has hurt our team , and I'm a KS backer, is that we are basically getting zero production from a highly rated recruit in his Jr.year.

I doubt we see much of him this year. He has the physical tools. Will he bring the mental side as a senior is my question. If it happens in this post season though we get real good real fast.

 

[GodFamilyCountryPurdue]

I've been as hard on Ray as anybody this year because when he plays well Purdue plays well...but the more I watch Purdue the more I realize why both Ray and Vince haven't produced consistently offensively...which is basically because of how or offense is set up.

They both know option #1 is to get the ball inside to Hammons/Haas. So when they catch the ball on the perimeter, 95% of the time Hammons/Haas are on the block waiting for post entry. Therefore those guys hold the ball to try to make the entry pass...and if they can't make it, they reverse the ball back to the other side. If they are able to enter the ball, they either clear out or play inside out which is why Ray has taken a lot of 3's this year, because that is generally when he finds himself open. Same with Vince. Vince has stopped taking as many 3's and has been looking to drive more which is good...especially when Swanigan is out of the game and Vince can attack opposing 4 men..

But I basically think those guys struggle offensively for the obvious reason that our #1,#2 and #3 options are to pound the ball inside to Swanigan/Hammons/Haas and since we have massive big men clogging the lane usually drawing 2 defenders...that disables Ray or Vince to attack unless they just decide to be ultra aggressive and do so.

I think if I were Painter, I would find ways early in the game to give Ray and Vince room to attack the rim...get Hammons out of the paint. Those guys usually play well if they hit a few shots early in the game and Purdue looks like an entirely different team offensively. I'm not sure why we can't play more 2 man pick and roll options with those guys and clear out the other side. Painter probably is worried the screener will pick up a cheap foul.

I'd like to see Hill continue to get more PT as well in 2nd halves because I think he is more capable of rebounding and attacking the rim than what PJ can bring later in games.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

 

[nagemj02]

I've been as hard on Ray as anybody this year because when he plays well Purdue plays well...but the more I watch Purdue the more I realize why both Ray and Vince haven't produced consistently offensively...which is basically because of how or offense is set up.

They both know option #1 is to get the ball inside to Hammons/Haas. So when they catch the ball on the perimeter, 95% of the time Hammons/Haas are on the block waiting for post entry. Therefore those guys hold the ball to try to make the entry pass...and if they can't make it, they reverse the ball back to the other side. If they are able to enter the ball, they either clear out or play inside out which is why Ray has taken a lot of 3's this year, because that is generally when he finds himself open. Same with Vince. Vince has stopped taking as many 3's and has been looking to drive more which is good...especially when Swanigan is out of the game and Vince can attack opposing 4 men..

But I basically think those guys struggle offensively for the obvious reason that our #1,#2 and #3 options are to pound the ball inside to Swanigan/Hammons/Haas and since we have massive big men clogging the lane usually drawing 2 defenders...that disables Ray or Vince to attack unless they just decide to be ultra aggressive and do so.

I think if I were Painter, I would find ways early in the game to give Ray and Vince room to attack the rim...get Hammons out of the paint. Those guys usually play well if they hit a few shots early in the game and Purdue looks like an entirely different team offensively. I'm not sure why we can't play more 2 man pick and roll options with those guys and clear out the other side. Painter probably is worried the screener will pick up a cheap foul.

I'd like to see Hill continue to get more PT as well in 2nd halves because I think he is more capable of rebounding and attacking the rim than what PJ can bring later in games.

agree with pretty much everything you stated

CMP does little change-ups in terms of strategies and different offensive or defensive looks, but usually not a major ballsy switch in style or emphasis of offensive or defensive attack. It would help open things up more in the paint for Hammons, Haas, and Swanigan if guys like Edwards, Davis, Hill, Cline, or Mathias are scoring often enough in each half. The question is: how often is enough to keep defenses honest?

 

[FirstDownB]

Here are the facts about Davis on the road this season:
6.6 PPG, .375 FG% in conference road games
His highest point total on the road - 11 pts @Rutgers (where the team scored 107). It was only his 10th highest point total of the season.

Bottom line is Ray has been struggling offensively on the road all season. Its not entirely clear why, but he does. Consistently. Would love to see him turn that around on Saturday and, regardless, he is needed in this game for his defense. But if we fall behind and the offense is not clicking, he may need to find the bench.

Bump.
Love the guy, but the road trend for Ray continues. It was apparent by halftime, but he came right back out to start the second half.

 

[Treyit31]

Called it.

We'll see what happens vs Maryland with the pt

 

[atmafola]

I've been as hard on Ray as anybody this year because when he plays well Purdue plays well...but the more I watch Purdue the more I realize why both Ray and Vince haven't produced consistently offensively...which is basically because of how or offense is set up.

They both know option #1 is to get the ball inside to Hammons/Haas. So when they catch the ball on the perimeter, 95% of the time Hammons/Haas are on the block waiting for post entry. Therefore those guys hold the ball to try to make the entry pass...and if they can't make it, they reverse the ball back to the other side. If they are able to enter the ball, they either clear out or play inside out which is why Ray has taken a lot of 3's this year, because that is generally when he finds himself open. Same with Vince. Vince has stopped taking as many 3's and has been looking to drive more which is good...especially when Swanigan is out of the game and Vince can attack opposing 4 men..

But I basically think those guys struggle offensively for the obvious reason that our #1,#2 and #3 options are to pound the ball inside to Swanigan/Hammons/Haas and since we have massive big men clogging the lane usually drawing 2 defenders...that disables Ray or Vince to attack unless they just decide to be ultra aggressive and do so.

I think if I were Painter, I would find ways early in the game to give Ray and Vince room to attack the rim...get Hammons out of the paint. Those guys usually play well if they hit a few shots early in the game and Purdue looks like an entirely different team offensively. I'm not sure why we can't play more 2 man pick and roll options with those guys and clear out the other side. Painter probably is worried the screener will pick up a cheap foul.

I'd like to see Hill continue to get more PT as well in 2nd halves because I think he is more capable of rebounding and attacking the rim than what PJ can bring later in games.

Btw what does motion offense have against pick and roll?

 

[atmafola]

Ray will definitely be missed next year. But with basil back I don't think we'll have to much drop off. Possibly an upgrade.

This is that overoptimistic thing fans tend to do about incoming players. Maybe in his senior year Basil will be an upgrade but I don't see how next year.

 

[Treyit31]

Spacing primarily

 

[JohnHoosierr]

This is that overoptimistic thing fans tend to do about incoming players. Maybe in his senior year Basil will be an upgrade but I don't see how next year.

Sigh... I said we shouldn't see too much drop off which as of right now means I don't expect as much of basil as I do of Ray this year. Possibly was the key word in my post. It isn't like Raphael is playing out of his mind. Basil coming in and giving the same production or possibly even more is a very reasonable expectation.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Sigh... I said we shouldn't see too much drop off which as of right now means I don't expect as much of basil as I do of Ray this year. Possibly was the key word in my post. It isn't like Raphael is playing out of his mind. Basil coming in and giving the same production or possibly even more is a very reasonable expectation.

Especially so considering the last three games Davis has scored 6 total points. I'm sure Basil could come in, play defense, and get 2 or more points. There may be a dropoff on the defensive side of the ball (at times) next season but offensively whoever is put on the court in Davis' absence will be an upgrade on the offensive end. Sad to say but when Davis doesn't play well offensively (even getting 6 points with a couple free throws would be fine), Purdue struggles. There is just no aggressive movement to the basket by the wings.