Purdue played a zone against IU...kinda

[Woodsa]

The defensive game plan against IU was pretty good last night (and pretty simple)--keep them out of the paint.

When Smith or Edey plays off their man and packed it in in the paint, it is about as close to a zone as we will likely see.

IU is complaining about the officiating but the issue wasnt officials it was their lack of offense. They could not hit an outside shot. How many times did Purdue let them (dare them) to shoot a wide open shot?

Purdue just provided the game plan for every team that plays IU next...make IU beat you from the outside. Until then, hybrid-zone it up and pack the paint.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

I think you saw that adjustment in certain plays in the first half when it was clear that CMP didn't want Zach to get his 2nd foul, but also wanted to leave him in to take advantage of the mismatches. So he played off of Reneau when he would get the ball 15-18 feet from the basket, and had another player lingering close-by.

Another retort to those who think Painter doesn't make in-game adjustments.

 

[rsomm]

Paint

I think you saw that adjustment in certain plays in the first half when it was clear that CMP didn't want Zach to get his 2nd foul, but also wanted to leave him in to take advantage of the mismatches. So he played off of Reneau when he would get the ball 15-18 feet from the basket, and had another player lingering close-by.

Another retort to those who think Painter doesn't make in-game adjustments.

Painter said in his pre game news conference, that they run the same defense Knight ran, a floating man to man or a floating kinda zone!

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I think you saw that adjustment in certain plays in the first half when it was clear that CMP didn't want Zach to get his 2nd foul, but also wanted to leave him in to take advantage of the mismatches. So he played off of Reneau when he would get the ball 15-18 feet from the basket, and had another player lingering close-by.

Another retort to those who think Painter doesn't make in-game adjustments.

He also was totally fine with Gunn, X and Cupps shooting wide open jumpers all night. Multiple occasion Braden didn’t even bother with them…he would sag waaay far over to not let Reneau or ware go 1 v 1.

It even seemed like we were letting Galloway shoot too….and he hit his shots but he’s not a very good outside shooter

 

[tjreese]

Paint

Painter said in his pre game news conference, that they run the same defense Knight ran, a floating man to man or a floating kinda zone!

@Woodsa @Chi-Boiler I haven't heard Matt's comments or the words floating man. It is common for Matt to leave a person open (happens a lot in high school as well) depending on what players are playing if possible. I can't remember much of it with the Baby Boilers, but can clearly remember Matt doing it with AJ and since. Had it not worked due to IU making shots, then Matt would have adjusted or better yet Paul Lusk and Terry Johnson would have adjusted. We see some posters talk about when Ethan is playing it is 5 on 4, do we not assume that in some cases other coaches do the same?

One adjustment that Matt has made due to a personnel change (this year) is the fact that Zach is lighter and quicker and Purdue does NOT use their 4 man to double the other team's 5 or vice versa sometimes. This has happened twice this year I can recall, and it wasn't good for Purdue. The ability to NOT help Zach all the time allows the other 4 players to play tighter on their opponents since they are always in better position.

What did happen THAT was not only significant, but more atypical was to not only be concerned with the lane, but to USE GUARDS to help inside. This is consistent with the game plan to protect the paint (and Zach) and see if IU beats you from the perimeter. Depending on what players were where...sometimes a guard dropped down to be a threat when a player was starting to attack the lane with a dig or threat of a dig to help off the dribble. More often it seemed Braden was close enough to threaten the dribble of Reneau by doubling him after the catch and sometimes it was a half a court away leaving Cupp generally open on the other side of the court...NOT DEFENDED by Braden. When Reneau would give up the ball, Braden would run back to the other side of the court and find his man. No doubt this added to fatigue for Braden that "may" have had an effect on his shooting...that we don't know. Anyway, I really liked what Purdue did, but had those things (subtle to many ) not taking place, Purdue would have adjusted again.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

@Woodsa @Chi-Boiler I haven't heard Matt's comments or the words floating man. It is common for Matt to leave a person open (happens a lot in high school as well) depending on what players are playing if possible. I can't remember much of it with the Baby Boilers, but can clearly remember Matt doing it with AJ and since. Had it not worked due to IU making shots, then Matt would have adjusted or better yet Paul Lusk and Terry Johnson would have adjusted. We see some posters talk about when Ethan is playing it is 5 on 4, do we not assume that in some cases other coaches do the same?

One adjustment that Matt has made due to a personnel change (this year) is the fact that Zach is lighter and quicker and Purdue does NOT use their 4 man to double the other team's 5 or vice versa sometimes. This has happened twice this year I can recall, and it wasn't good for Purdue. The ability to NOT help Zach all the time allows the other 4 players to play tighter on their opponents since they are always in better position.

What did happen THAT was not only significant, but more atypical was to not only be concerned with the lane, but to USE GUARDS to help inside. This is consistent with the game plan to protect the paint (and Zach) and see if IU beats you from the perimeter. Depending on what players were where...sometimes a guard dropped down to be a threat when a player was starting to attack the lane with a dig or threat of a dig to help off the dribble. More often it seemed Braden was close enough to threaten the dribble of Reneau by doubling him after the catch and sometimes it was a half a court away leaving Cupp generally open on the other side of the court...NOT DEFENDED by Braden. When Reneau would give up the ball, Braden would run back to the other side of the court and find his man. No doubt this added to fatigue for Braden that "may" have had an effect on his shooting...that we don't know. Anyway, I really liked what Purdue did, but had those things (subtle to many ) not taking place, Purdue would have adjusted again.

We were very much happy with Cupps, Galloway, X or Gunn shooting and even more ok with Walker shooting a transition 3 that hit the other side of the backboard 😂

When Galloway is the number 1 option on offense for IU, things aren’t going well for them

 

[MDS3]

This IU fan thought the game was very well officiated...The first two fouls on Mag were questionable as i thought Loyer flopped on the charge, and the second he was straight up. Peacock never showed replays. They did show a replay of Xavier going behind his back and was fouled on the layup, but refs are not going to give him that call when he acts like an @sshole the whole game. Purdue is just so much better at every position. Only personnel advantage we probably had was Malik over TKR/Gillis, and Purdue owned the other 4 spots.

 

[Woodsa]

I thought the officiating was okay, inconsistent at both ends but generally let them play.

The screen fouls on Purdue but not on IU were unnerving as EVERYONE leans in their screen but yet not called.

Charges are a mystery to everyone as what appears to be a charge to me is blocking and that was at both ends. Just not sure what is a charge any more.

Loyer's positioned himself to take a charge and Galloway drove right around him for the layup. Funny to see in replays.

 

[tjreese]

This IU fan thought the game was very well officiated...The first two fouls on Mag were questionable as i thought Loyer flopped on the charge, and the second he was straight up. Peacock never showed replays. They did show a replay of Xavier going behind his back and was fouled on the layup, but refs are not going to give him that call when he acts like an @sshole the whole game. Purdue is just so much better at every position. Only personnel advantage we probably had was Malik over TKR/Gillis, and Purdue owned the other 4 spots.

Not sure some of IU's players would have ever been recruited by Knight...unless he thought he could use their individual abilities to better the TEAM and breaking them down to build back they way he wanted them. IU has LOT of individual talent and it is true that the talent is young and that is a problem by itself. Purdue was very young in the backcourt last year, but has shown growth this year. What I don't believe is debatable is that Knight wouldn't have X like he has acted. Knights leash would have been much shorter.

 

[MDS3]

Not sure some of IU's players would have ever been recruited by Knight...unless he thought he could use their individual abilities to better the TEAM and breaking them down to build back they way he wanted them. IU has LOT of individual talent and it is true that the talent is young and that is a problem by itself. Purdue was very young in the backcourt last year, but has shown growth this year. What I don't believe is debatable is that Knight wouldn't have X like he has acted. Knights leash would have been much shorter.

Galloway would have been a Knight player, but zero others. Maybe Cupps who i think will be a solid player down the line. He plays hard which Knight would love...No way Coach would have put up with X this long. He would have been severly punished after the car episode, and maybe given one more opportunity. The nut grab and laughing leaving the court at Rutgers would have been it. He loved tough players (Galloway), but wouldnt put up with dirty players (X).

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Galloway would have been a Knight player, but zero others. Maybe Cupps who i think will be a solid player down the line. He plays hard which Knight would love...No way Coach would have put up with X this long. He would have been severly punished after the car episode, and maybe given one more opportunity. The nut grab and laughing leaving the court at Rutgers would have been it. He loved tough players (Galloway), but wouldnt put up with dirty players (X).

Galloway was who we thought/hoped Morton would be. Gallo would be a great 6th/7th man/defensive stopper for this team. But he’s getting asked to do way too much this year for IU. His role was perfect last year.

Generally curious, what’s “solid” in your eyes for Cupps? He looks very outmatched and all I read is his “IQ is so high since he’s a coach’s son” and “he’s going to be real good”…but he can’t take anyone off the dribble, can’t shoot, no explosion, can kinda stay in front of some guys but not an amazing defender. He can only work with the ability he’s given and I just don’t see it. Maybe he will be a 10 and 3-4 kinda guy by his senior year?? And that’s if he doesn’t get recruited over. Not trying to be combative, but generally curious why a lot of fans think he’s the future PG.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Not sure some of IU's players would have ever been recruited by Knight...unless he thought he could use their individual abilities to better the TEAM and breaking them down to build back they way he wanted them. IU has LOT of individual talent and it is true that the talent is young and that is a problem by itself. Purdue was very young in the backcourt last year, but has shown growth this year. What I don't believe is debatable is that Knight wouldn't have X like he has acted. Knights leash would have been much shorter.

IUs talent is OK. Best way I can put it, is their guards should be A LOT better on defense for how bad they are on offense. None of them are all that good at either end of the floor.

Fife could guard folks, even tho he couldn’t shoot. JBJ could shoot lights out, even though he had no interest in defense.

IUs current guard group is mediocre at both ends, at best.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

Loyer's positioned himself to take a charge and Galloway drove right around him for the layup. Funny to see in replays.

That ole defense really pissed me off. He slalomed between 3 players for an uncontested layup. It wasn't just on Loyer.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

That ole defense really pissed me off. He slalomed between 3 players for an uncontested layup. It wasn't just on Loyer.

"Slalomed" is the perfect word choice there....and he did it without even touching a gate.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

"Slalomed" is the perfect word choice there....and he did it without even touching a gate.

I wasn't sure that was even a word, but I didn't get a red squiggly line under it. Didn't get one under squiggly either!

 

[MDS3]

Galloway was who we thought/hoped Morton would be. Gallo would be a great 6th/7th man/defensive stopper for this team. But he’s getting asked to do way too much this year for IU. His role was perfect last year.

Generally curious, what’s “solid” in your eyes for Cupps? He looks very outmatched and all I read is his “IQ is so high since he’s a coach’s son” and “he’s going to be real good”…but he can’t take anyone off the dribble, can’t shoot, no explosion, can kinda stay in front of some guys but not an amazing defender. He can only work with the ability he’s given and I just don’t see it. Maybe he will be a 10 and 3-4 kinda guy by his senior year?? And that’s if he doesn’t get recruited over. Not trying to be combative, but generally curious why a lot of fans think he’s the future PG.

Good question, but I see Cupps body being much stronger entering next season. I mean, he currently looks like an 8th grader out there. His defense isnt terrible and that along with not turning the ball over at an high rate is what gets him on the floor right now. Not positive, but think he was +4 last night in 22 minutes of action. His basketball IQ is probably tops on this current team, and i think with that, his work ethic, and overall just getting bigger, stronger, and quicker there is room for him to excel down the line. He will be much better in an offensive setting that has a couple of reliant shooters.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

Good question, but I see Cupps body being much stronger entering next season. I mean, he currently looks like an 8th grader out there. His defense isnt terrible and that along with not turning the ball over at an high rate is what gets him on the floor right now. Not positive, but think he was +4 last night in 22 minutes of action. His basketball IQ is probably tops on this current team, and i think with that, his work ethic, and overall just getting bigger, stronger, and quicker there is room for him to excel down the line. He will be much better in an offensive setting that has a couple of reliant shooters.

This defense didn't work against Edey. Joking aside, Cupps is clearly not a guy Woody expected to get major minutes this year. Seems like he's held up pretty decently though in many games.

 

[tjreese]

Galloway would have been a Knight player, but zero others. Maybe Cupps who i think will be a solid player down the line. He plays hard which Knight would love...No way Coach would have put up with X this long. He would have been severly punished after the car episode, and maybe given one more opportunity. The nut grab and laughing leaving the court at Rutgers would have been it. He loved tough players (Galloway), but wouldnt put up with dirty players (X).

Back then Purdue and IU players would compete as hard as possible, but there was never dirty play and respect between the players as each knew the other team was clean and filled with players that much was expected. Knight with his personal flaws would NEVER have stood by and had the IU fans act like some do today. Sure you can't control all the fans, but he wouldn't have stood for fans yelling to Haas about his sister and so many other examples. His standards were always higher for others...and unfortunately lower for himself. Some blame the influx of the east coast students into IU as an explanation and perhaps it has some merit. The problems grow due to the seats being so close to the floor. There you have the potential of an idiot doing idiotic things towards other players. I wonder if there was an expectation of behavior with those seats on the floor with losing them when a big body goes past a point of no return. Just one of many---Taunting Zach Edey is weird. Especially after he just did *that* to your beloved Hoosiers.

 

[Riveting-]

The defensive game plan against IU was pretty good last night (and pretty simple)--keep them out of the paint.

When Smith or Edey plays off their man and packed it in in the paint, it is about as close to a zone as we will likely see.

I noticed that. I think Matt has been reading our forum for coaching advice.

 

[Riveting-]

Just one of many---Taunting Zach Edey is weird. Especially after he just did *that* to your beloved Hoosiers.

I bet that idiot fan was @HoosierfanJM . The description sounds about right.

 

[tjreese]

IUs talent is OK. Best way I can put it, is their guards should be A LOT better on defense for how bad they are on offense. None of them are all that good at either end of the floor.

Fife could guard folks, even tho he couldn’t shoot. JBJ could shoot lights out, even though he had no interest in defense.

IUs current guard group is mediocre at both ends, at best.

but there is individual talent on that team. Galloway could play at Purdue and other places and of course three other players (Ware, Reneau &Mgbako) could go to a LOT of places on talent as well. Gunn has ability. They are missing chemistry and culture and that doesn't make up for the individual talent they have, but there are some solid pieces to "build a team " with "IF" the players sacrifice a bit of themselves for the team. Pretty much had a similar situation before Davis got the letter about being soft last year. They seem to be more about looking good in the bright lights than being good....

 

[tjreese]

I bet that idiot fan was @HoosierfanJM . The description sounds about right.

Don't think he is that old. He also is more reasonable on this site

 

[BoilerAndy]

Back then Purdue and IU players would compete as hard as possible, but there was never dirty play and respect between the players as each knew the other team was clean and filled with players that much was expected. Knight with his personal flaws would NEVER have stood by and had the IU fans act like some do today. Sure you can't control all the fans, but he wouldn't have stood for fans yelling to Haas about his sister and so many other examples. His standards were always higher for others...and unfortunately lower for himself. Some blame the influx of the east coast students into IU as an explanation and perhaps it has some merit. The problems grow due to the seats being so close to the floor. There you have the potential of an idiot doing idiotic things towards other players. I wonder if there was an expectation of behavior with those seats on the floor with losing them when a big body goes past a point of no return. Just one of many---Taunting Zach Edey is weird. Especially after he just did *that* to your beloved Hoosiers.

Many of the best players at Purdue and IU were close friends off the court.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I noticed that. I think Matt has been reading our forum for coaching advice.

About time he did that!!!! 😂 😂

 

[Riveting-]

About time he did that!!!! 😂 😂

If Saban got coaching advice from PeeWee of Grand Bay, then Matt should be listening to us.

Nick Saban and Peewee from Grand Bay: The legendary coach and his most famous caller

The Alabama legend forged an unlikely connection with a regular caller to his radio show in an era when such shows are becoming less common.

www.espn.com

 

[Woodsa]

I think IU can get talent to the school. Their issue is their NBA coaching staff cannot establish a culture, build a team, and create a winning attitude at IU. In the NBA, you are managing egos, in college, you have to build the team.

I feel for Galloway as he will go out this year likely on a losing team. He seems like a decent kid so that is tough for him as a senior. The other players seem more like West/East coast thugs looking to play street ball and not team-oriented organized basketball. The IU coach has a long way to go to get this talent working together.

Regardless, it was nice to see CMP listen to us on this board about playing the zone defense to pack the paint and force IU to beat you outside...which they could not.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Back then Purdue and IU players would compete as hard as possible, but there was never dirty play and respect between the players as each knew the other team was clean and filled with players that much was expected. Knight with his personal flaws would NEVER have stood by and had the IU fans act like some do today. Sure you can't control all the fans, but he wouldn't have stood for fans yelling to Haas about his sister and so many other examples. His standards were always higher for others...and unfortunately lower for himself. Some blame the influx of the east coast students into IU as an explanation and perhaps it has some merit. The problems grow due to the seats being so close to the floor. There you have the potential of an idiot doing idiotic things towards other players. I wonder if there was an expectation of behavior with those seats on the floor with losing them when a big body goes past a point of no return. Just one of many---Taunting Zach Edey is weird. Especially after he just did *that* to your beloved Hoosiers.

Wow. Is doyel over being an IU fan? That’s the nicest piece the Indy star has ever put out about Purdue…

And that IU fan….wow. I can admit when another player is good regardless what team he’s on, but saying edeys a bum after he just became Ware’s father by putting up 33 and 14???

Last 3 games vs iu, he is averaging 31 and 16….but yeah he’s just “tall” and a “bum”.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I bet that idiot fan was @HoosierfanJM . The description sounds about right.

In another thread, someone wondered if some fanbases are really worse than others. Can anyone imagine a group of adult Purdue fans sitting in the stands after a loss and behaving that way? Then proudly yucking it up if someone from the press approaches them? I doubt that we can even blame East Coast on this one. That's Bloomington trailer park trash. Indinia Nation culture.

 

[Riveting-]

In another thread, someone wondered if some fanbases are worse than others. Can anyone imagine a group of adult Purdue fans sitting in the stands after a loss and behaving that way? Then proudly yucking it up if someone from the press approaches them? I doubt that we can even blame East Coast on this one. That's Bloomington trailer park trash. Indinia Nation culture.

It was just one drunken Leo-oosier (still think it might have @HoosierfanJM ). From what I could see on the bleeping peacock, the fans overall were ok, although I could not hear what they were saying. I hope no unseemly profanity was offered up.

I thought the white out t-shirts were cute in a sad way.

 

[Jbigler1986]

I noticed a few time Smith ran towards the shooter but didn't even put his hands up.

 

[PurdueDave]

I bet that idiot fan was @HoosierfanJM . The description sounds about right.

More likely courtsense

 

[Riveting-]

More likely courtsense

@HoosierfanJM posts under several usernames, so it could be one and the same.

 

[BoilerAndy]

It was just one drunken Leo-oosier (still think it might have @HoosierfanJM ). From what I could see on the bleeping peacock, the fans overall were ok, although I could not hear what they were saying. I hope no unseemly profanity was offered up.

I thought the white out t-shirts were cute in a sad way.

The fan and the group with him. There is a long history of IU fans behaving like this. The IU fanbase has a reputation for a reason. Some middle-aged men have gone to Indiana high school basketball games and booed and harassed Purdue commits.

 

[tjreese]

I think IU can get talent to the school. Their issue is their NBA coaching staff cannot establish a culture, build a team, and create a winning attitude at IU. In the NBA, you are managing egos, in college, you have to build the team.

I feel for Galloway as he will go out this year likely on a losing team. He seems like a decent kid so that is tough for him as a senior. The other players seem more like West/East coast thugs looking to play street ball and not team-oriented organized basketball. The IU coach has a long way to go to get this talent working together.

Regardless, it was nice to see CMP listen to us on this board about playing the zone defense to pack the paint and force IU to beat you outside...which they could not.

I can agree with the IU culture, but Matt did NOT play zone and Matt does NOT listen to anyone in this forum.

 

[tjreese]

@HoosierfanJM posts under several usernames, so it could be one and the same.

That is a lot of effort to post the same stupid crap as though another agreeing with a stupid post adds merit to that post. Waaaaayyyy too much time available I guess

 

[Woodsa]

Wow. Is doyel over being an IU fan? That’s the nicest piece the Indy star has ever put out about Purdue…

And that IU fan….wow. I can admit when another player is good regardless what team he’s on, but saying edeys a bum after he just became Ware’s father by putting up 33 and 14???

Last 3 games vs iu, he is averaging 31 and 16….but yeah he’s just “tall” and a “bum”.

I doubt Doyal is over being an IU fan. The moment IU does anything positive, the IU Star will be right there featuring their true colors: cream and crimson.

If IU were nbr 1 or 2 in the country, the Star would have article after article about their program's success.

 

[02BoilerUp]

Galloway was who we thought/hoped Morton would be. Gallo would be a great 6th/7th man/defensive stopper for this team. But he’s getting asked to do way too much this year for IU. His role was perfect last year.

Generally curious, what’s “solid” in your eyes for Cupps? He looks very outmatched and all I read is his “IQ is so high since he’s a coach’s son” and “he’s going to be real good”…but he can’t take anyone off the dribble, can’t shoot, no explosion, can kinda stay in front of some guys but not an amazing defender. He can only work with the ability he’s given and I just don’t see it. Maybe he will be a 10 and 3-4 kinda guy by his senior year?? And that’s if he doesn’t get recruited over. Not trying to be combative, but generally curious why a lot of fans think he’s the future PG.

I don't see what they saw in Cupps by any means.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

but there is individual talent on that team. Galloway could play at Purdue and other places and of course three other players (Ware, Reneau &Mgbako) could go to a LOT of places on talent as well. Gunn has ability. They are missing chemistry and culture and that doesn't make up for the individual talent they have, but there are some solid pieces to "build a team " with "IF" the players sacrifice a bit of themselves for the team. Pretty much had a similar situation before Davis got the letter about being soft last year. They seem to be more about looking good in the bright lights than being good....

Respect your opinion. I just disagree.

None of their guards would start for a good B1G team, in my opinion.

Cupps, Galloway, Gunn, XJ, all are mediocre players. At best.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I doubt Doyal is over being an IU fan. The moment IU does anything positive, the IU Star will be right there featuring their true colors: cream and crimson.

If IU were nbr 1 or 2 in the country, the Star would have article after article about their program's success.

They were doing it before it became clear that IU, with all their highly rated talent, will not challenge for the B1G title.

 

[tjreese]

Respect your opinion. I just disagree.

None of their guards would start for a good B1G team, in my opinion.

Cupps, Galloway, Gunn, XJ, all are mediocre players. At best.

That is fair, but sometimes a different coach makes a difference and none of that takes away from the 3 I mention that were individually talented. Galloway would have played for Purdue the last few years and maybe Gunn would have in the past as well. Point is there is talent on IUs team even if you think the perimeter is not talented. Those three players I mention have enough individual talent they would find a lot of minutes on other Big teams. I see more culture problems than talent issues. Now if you believe that "culture" is fully embedded inside each and cannot be altered, then maybe Reneau is the only one...not sure about McBako and such.