I'm not sure how you gathered from his post that he was bragging about IU and our incoming class....he was actually doing the opposite. He was saying that IU fan expectations are not a National Championship, or even close to that. Other than a few irrational folks, most realize that IU is young and there will be bumps in the road. Purdue fans realize the same. Both fan-bases are excited about the season to see what happens and how the teams grow. I don't think he was doing any downgrading of Purdue, just pointing out why many analysts are predicting what they are. That doesn't mean they're right, but you can't fault them for what they're saying. It's their opinion based on what they see and know, just like your opinions from what you see and know. No need to get fired up.
Post your preseason All-B1G basketball teams
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I'm not sure how you gathered from his post that he was bragging about IU and our incoming class....he was actually doing the opposite. He was saying that IU fan expectations are not a National Championship, or even close to that. Other than a few irrational folks, most realize that IU is young and there will be bumps in the road. Purdue fans realize the same. Both fan-bases are excited about the season to see what happens and how the teams grow. I don't think he was doing any downgrading of Purdue, just pointing out why many analysts are predicting what they are. That doesn't mean they're right, but you can't fault them for what they're saying. It's their opinion based on what they see and know, just like your opinions from what you see and know. No need to get fired up.
Just to be clear, my comment about winning the NC was (1) just exaggeration to throw some pity toward Romeo's situation, and (2) a reference to IU fans, not sports writers. SO, no, I haven't seen any "sports writer/expert" predict a national championship for IU either.
I didn't downgrade any Purdue players in my post at all. My post also never mentioned Romeo (I'm assuming that's who you meant by "freshman 5 star prodigy). My post was in response to an assertion that media have given IU unfair praise while ranking Purdue lower than they should be ranked at the same time. So I'm not sure where you drew your conclusions from.
Have you seen an IU fan predict a national championship? I'd like to get in line and laugh at them as well...
Not yet. I can practically guarantee you will see such a post after IU wins 3-5 pre-BIG season games. You might even see the same sort of post here, about Purdue. You and I can both laugh at the wildly unfounded optimism.
Besides, didn't you read my comment that I was exaggerating just a bit?
I never said it was outrageous to think Purdue would be a top 5 team. I will say that it isn't outrageous to think they could finish below that either.
There is nothing to support IU being better this year than they were last year?
Offense was a major issue for IU last season. Romeo alone will drastically improve that. Justin Smith is looking like he will have breakout year (check out his play in the last 10 games). WE GOT RID OF NEWKIRK. Evan Fitzner will provide shooting at the stretch 5 that we didn't have last year (43% career). We will no longer have a former football player (with zero basketball skill) starting. Point Guard is still a major question mark, but like you, we think our guy (Devonte Green) will make some strides.
I just provided you many examples of why IU will be better than last year. Now you provide examples of how Purdue will be better (or as good) as last year.
Those examples are hopes. Show something tangible to back them up.
Nobody has ever said Purdue will be better or even as good. That is your spin and it doesnt fly.
It may have been another poster I read in his post I sincerely apologize to you.
Wrong poster was meant for another poster who made those comments. Also opinions are opinions and sir I’m not fired up I gave my opinion is that cool with you just like you have been giving yours I’m calm let’s move on.
You can't have it both ways. I provided you realistic predictions of how players will perform this year. If that isn't acceptable, then the only sure thing Purdue has is Carsen like the only sure thing IU has is Morgan. Everyone else on both teams either didn't perform at a starter level, or didn't play last year.
This isn’t bragging huh on a Purdue message board. Purdue will be better sir be patient 3 months let’s see if your predictions will come true. So nojel, Haarms and Cline won’t bring nothing to the table bcuz they didn’t play as many min so you think interesting and you are certain that your freshman will just come in put up numbers that makes him all big 10 1st team against some of the best coaches in college basketball interesting 62 days and counting
Again, where was the bragging? He wanted examples as to why I THINK IU will be better than IU was last year.
He told me thinking Green and Smith were going to be better this year was just a hope. If that's the case, then the same can be said for Eastern and Haarms as well. I think Eastern and Haarms both make big strides just like I think Green and Smith will.
Also, please point out where I said an IU freshman was going to make an overall Big-Ten team. I didn't say that.
Eastern and Haarms played quite a few minutes on a team that beat tourney teams, played in the B1G tourney championship and won games in the tourney.
Did Green or Smith?
You want stats, here's stats:
Take a look at this table from Bart Torvik's site. It shows advanced stats for BIG teams from last season, broken down into overall and conference only efficiencies. You'll see that Indiana's overall adjusted defensive efficiency on the season was 96.9, 57th in the country. Not that great. Then if you look at the conference only adjusted defensive efficiency, Indiana is at 91.7, which ranked 1st in the conference. A pretty marked improvement. Obviously the last few games, especially the Rutgers game, was a disappointment. Rutgers shot the lights out and Indiana looked like they had all but given up on the season. Not a great way to end the season, but that doesn't mean there wasn't overall improvement throughout the season.
Here is the progression according to Kenpom's numbers. This data was recorded and tabulated by a member of the Inside The Hall forum, so credit goes to him for putting it together. On KenPom there is no way to go back and look at progression, unless you just track it and write it down, which is what this member did:
As you can see again, the defense steadily got better throughout conference. Obviously, the offense was bad, by both metrics. It never improved much at all, and that is why Indiana had such a bad season. Last off-season Archie stated that they spent 75% of practice time on defense and 25% on offense, because they had a lot to work on and learn in his defensive system. I would imagine the time is better split this off-season, now that he has returnees who already have a year with his defense and he doesn't need to teach it to the whole team from scratch. I expect the offense to be better this year purely due to that, not even accounting for any other roster changes
This is not a comparison between Eastern and Haarms vs Green and Smith. This is about expecting a leap from them. I'm expecting a leap from all 4 players (5 if I include Durham who averaged 18 min/gm last year).
To answer OT question though, no Smith and Green did not play on a team with those accomplishments. However, because of that, they were able to play a lot of minutes. Is it better for development to get more game time, or or play on a team that succeeds? An argument can be made for both IMO.
16-15 is a stat.You want stats, here's stats:
Take a look at this table from Bart Torvik's site. It shows advanced stats for BIG teams from last season, broken down into overall and conference only efficiencies. You'll see that Indiana's overall adjusted defensive efficiency on the season was 96.9, 57th in the country. Not that great. Then if you look at the conference only adjusted defensive efficiency, Indiana is at 91.7, which ranked 1st in the conference. A pretty marked improvement. Obviously the last few games, especially the Rutgers game, was a disappointment. Rutgers shot the lights out and Indiana looked like they had all but given up on the season. Not a great way to end the season, but that doesn't mean there wasn't overall improvement throughout the season.
Here is the progression according to Kenpom's numbers. This data was recorded and tabulated by a member of the Inside The Hall forum, so credit goes to him for putting it together. On KenPom there is no way to go back and look at progression, unless you just track it and write it down, which is what this member did:
As you can see again, the defense steadily got better throughout conference. Obviously, the offense was bad, by both metrics. It never improved much at all, and that is why Indiana had such a bad season. Last off-season Archie stated that they spent 75% of practice time on defense and 25% on offense, because they had a lot to work on and learn in his defensive system. I would imagine the time is better split this off-season, now that he has returnees who already have a year with his defense and he doesn't need to teach it to the whole team from scratch. I expect the offense to be better this year purely due to that, not even accounting for any other roster changes
IU lost some bad games the beginning of the year, so of course you will see improvement. Your stats don’t show improvement to a level that predicts a winning team. Don’t you have 6 or 7 new guys this year? Won’t they have to learn the defense just like everyone else last year?
I expect IU to be better this year. I don’t however see any evidence that they will be better than Purdue. It’s all speculation and that’s fine. You should probably do that on an IU site however. This site is a Purdue site in case you haven’t noticed.
I will say this. IU is questionable at point guard. IU is questionable at center. Having Davis injured and likely not 100% until B1G season is a huge blow for a team that was nowhere close to being good last year.
We will all see soon enough if Juwan and Romeo can carry the rest of the team and make IU competitive. I of course have my doubts, but my team has a 1st team All B1G player returning and you don’t.
I didn’t say you made that statement I’m just making reference bcuz some of your other IU fans on this Purdue board have said so I made a statement. What I no is this Morgan and Carson are the only 2 starters back that played significant and consistent min from last season so everyone else on both rosters returning players have new roles this season. I’m not gonna look up the stats from both rosters to see what those stats were but I can bet the stats from both roster returning players will be similar give or take. My point I’m making is this you are on a Purdue wedsite talking about Indiana basketball and giving ur opinions about your team Indiana who you support obviously and you expect Purdue fans not to be offended. Listen sir I no are bored this time of season no basketball to watch but anxiously waiting for season to get here to watch out teams play and in 62 days we all will see what these team will look it and every opinion not facts will be put to rest bcuz those players gotta play not you or me but those players gotta play than all our predictions or opinions will be answered one way or another.
Green had 12 starts. Smith had 9 starts. Durham had 9 starts.
PG is certainly a question. I think Green and Durham will be able to manage it with RP getting a little time too.
Davis is likely not playing this year (done till at least January). With that being said, we have a 6'10" grad transfer (Evan Fitzner) that will be the likely starter. If he doesn't start, then Morgan will start at center, and I have no concerns with any position Morgan is playing. Before you say "relying on a grad transfer is hoping too", I will point out Purdue will be relying heavily on one as well.
I'm not sure why any Purdue fan would be offended by what I have said. Clearly some disagree, and have provided why they disagree. This is a discussion board where opinions are discussed. I'm simply giving my opinions and backing up reasons why I have the opinions I do. That's what message boards are for.
Your transfer is actually the one new guy, other than Romeo that I think will be good.
That's fine, you can have your opinion, I have mine. When the season is over we'll have our answer. I'm not going to bother trying to refute any of your points because it's clear you don't care or will just dismiss them. I gave solid stats to refute your claim that Indiana improved throughout the season, so far all you've given is pure conjecture. Nothing left to do here, your mind is made up and so is mine, let's be done with it.
You still on a PURDUE board giving your opinions of your team that don’t seem odd to you I’m not in Indiana board talking about what Purdue basketball or their roster. I get it’s a an opinion based board but really I don’t care anything about Indiana basketball except for Justin smith who I support bcuz he and my son are really good friends outside of that I could care less what your team has what you expect them to do how good your freshmen will be ETC. I just thinks it’s a bit much that you constantly on here talking about your team on a rival board
I pretty much agree with this for the first year. I do think Jerome Hunter will be a stud down the road. I also expect Race Thompson to get some pretty good PT this year. He is often overlooked kinda since he redshirted last year.
When there is a discussion going on involving my team, or players on my team, or even the big ten in general, I feel no issue joining in. This thread originally was not about Purdue basketball. It was about the Big Ten overall. Also, I wouldn't recommend going to the IU free boards. That place is horrible.
If it makes you feel better, there is a lot more interesting discussion going on in this thread than any threads on our premium board right now.
Are you a Indiana fan or Purdue fan just curious. I have no desire to talk or give my opinions on any message boards if it’s not the team I support. So it’s horrible even you won’t be on the board but yet you are on this board that you cheer against ok got it makes since now. I guess I’m a tad bit confused bcuz your team is Indiana which you obviously love and think highly of but you wanna share your team players information about how your team stats who’s returning who gonna do what how good the freshmen gonna be but yet you are on a Purdue basketball message board talking about Indiana basketball. If you talk about big 10 basketball I could get that but all you have talked about is Indiana basketball why I’m confused
Obviously I'm an IU fan. Last time I checked, Indiana was in the Big Ten, so giving my two cents on how IU is going to perform in the Big Ten in a thread about predicting the Big Ten seems okay to me. If you would rather not see my posts, you can always use the ignore feature.
I have said many times that I think both teams will be similar this year as far as finish. IU improves some and Purdue drops a bit.
I will say, I think people underestimate our talent due to the loss of four seniors. Painter has had good seasons with new guys and outside of the two years following the Baby Boilers, he has always brought a competitive team into league play.
Both Eastern and Haarms played enough minutes to score in double figures vs more than a single B1G team as well.But neither did...
Justin Smith is arguably already the scorer each of them aspires to be. He needs to be more consistent, but he managed double figures against Seton Hall, Neb, OSU, Ill,Iowa,Minnesota and Maryland.
And at 6'6" as a true freshman despite playing nearly 200 mins less than (Redshirt) Haarms, Smith garnered the same rebounds per game numbers (3.2) and had a scoring avg of 6.5 to Haarms 4.8. And the 48" vertical he recorded last week bested Vic's IU numbers and tied for the NBA Combine record So there seems to be ample reason for optimism regarding Smith,when compared to either Haarms or Eastern.
I like Smith as much as anyone, but even if he reaches his best case scenario development, he still won't be anywhere near the player HAARMS is defensively.
In conference play last season
Per 100 Possessions
Blocks
HAARMS 7.5
Smith 1.0
Steals
HAARMS 1.1
Smith 0.8
Offensively
Field goal %
HAARMS 63.5%
Smith 55.3%
Offensive Rating
HAARMS 111.9
Smith 107.1
Defensive Rating (lower is better)
HAARMS 97.9
Smith 105.5
So HAARMS net rating was +14, while Smith's was +1.6. Nothing really to argue here.
So HAARMS is vastly superior on defense and much more efficient offensively as well. A "No Brainer" if you will when comparing the 2.
In conference play last season
Per 100 Possessions
Blocks
HAARMS 7.5
Smith 1.0
Steals
HAARMS 1.1
Smith 0.8
Offensively
Field goal %
HAARMS 63.5%
Smith 55.3%
Offensive Rating
HAARMS 111.9
Smith 107.1
Defensive Rating (lower is better)
HAARMS 97.9
Smith 105.5
So HAARMS net rating was +14, while Smith's was +1.6. Nothing really to argue here.
So HAARMS is vastly superior on defense and much more efficient offensively as well. A "No Brainer" if you will when comparing the 2.
Smith is a stud but let’s be real here. Haarms was backing up one of the most efficient big men in the country and Smith wasn’t.
Haarms percentage will show you that he didn’t score a lot because he didn’t try, not because he couldn’t.
Can’t wait to see that 48” vertical win y’all some games. Perhaps you will beat Rutgers?
12 min a game 3 min a stretch a game and you really think they could have done more. Especially my son really kinda what so many expect you don’t want no part of him when Indiana meets him believe that.
I mean, I could accept this answer if he made your second team, but HE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE YOUR SECOND TEAM. What makes you think Tyler Cook is a better player than Murphy anyways? Cook is pretty good offensively, but is soft on the defensive end. He should be a much better rebounder with his size and athleticism.
Tyler Cook was 11th in the conference in rebounding % during conference games last season. So he's actually a pretty good rebounder, he just fights over rebounds with the 2 other bigs he constantly plays with since Fran loves playing 2+ bigs at all times.
http://cbbref.com/tiny/hRyyP
As far as Murphy not making my personal list, who cares?
We are splitting hairs here.
Juwan Morgan, Tyler Cook, Isaiah Roby, Jordan Murphy, Ethan Happ and the list goes on and on. There's only so many slots on a 1st and 2nd Team all conference team for this many talented bigs.
I am under no delusion that Tyler Cook is 100% for sure going to have a better season than Jordan Murphy, just guessing from super slin sliced margins here. Murphy may very well win B1G Player of the year and it will not surprise me. It will also not surprise me if he doesn't make 1st or 2nd Team all B1G.
I know what the point of the thread is. It has absolutely nothing to do with the guy you referenced and the fact that he votes on polls. Think for yourself. That's what the people on this board do.
We have a Purdue fan give his opinion about top conference players, followed by a bunch of IU fans crying that their guy isn't on his list. They don't provide their own list. They just cry about his list. Then some want to start comparing Purdue player stats with their player's stats, and they want to show embarrassing videos to prove their point (?), and they want to present the opinion of some "expert journalist". This happens every year about this time. IU fans seeking affirmation from Purdue fans.
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