Painter to critics: "you don't understand basketball, it's really stupid" in press conference
- Thread starter typeviic
- Start date
I am perfectly fine with Matt swinging a pair now and calling you stupid at any time.
Amen, Matt does better job of answering the press and others than 99% of the coaches, if he gets tired of the same old question, who cares. Rip them and go on. Have any of you listened to Underwood after Illini loses a game?
We all have egos, you seem to have an enlarged one. If you would have achieved what Matt has , yours would be out of control.
Look...Painter's ball licker at it again. Don't forget the left one b!tch.
You are fine. I enjoy your posts as I do many others. You do get a bit more specific than some and so that is good not being so vague. I'm definitely not a cuddly, hugging everything and has to be good guy and I'm sure your first sentence is how some would view me as well. I'm not the hall monitor, I could never do that. It does seem that sometimes somebody gets really uptight if someone says something even if not attacking that person. Then there are other times people do in fact attack another.I am sure many here see me as a blow hard / know it all and I'm fine with thatI'm pretty impervious to what other people think, often to a fault and to my own detriment.
I definitely love the nuances of the game and miss being close to it. It does, to your point, add to my enjoyment in following Purdue basketball but can also make me pretty insufferable to people who just want to watch the games and have their emotional reactions as fans without being told why they're wrong.
I think Matt does a really good job. There are things I think I prefer he did different as others have their beliefs as well. However, although I'm in his corner and have no problem with those that are not, I just wish there was a bit more specific criticism when expressed and it was basketball rated. Yet this is a forum and there shouldn't be uniformity in thought. You are fine as are others that disagree when they offer reasoning behind what they believe. It is the posts that offer nothing of substance, but an emotional outburst that gets someone pi$$ed at another. Hey, a person disagrees...fine. Why do you believe what you do? Compare and contrast that and so forth would be great in the forum.
Not everybody has only a March focal point. That said Purdue has not done well the last few years. Certainly Purdue has done better than most programs, because most didn't even get in the tourney...but Purdue should have done better than what they did.
Now relative to that comment there are very many different opinions as to the root cause but whether someone supports Matt as the Purdue coach or not...neither represent the person as such and such due to whether he supports Matt or not and I think you and most understand that. When someone gets angry it is because they "feel" threatened in some manner. You don't believe like me? I can't answer that question. You are this ...you are that. Anyway you are fine as are the vast majority of posters IMO whether they agree with me or not. I would be very concerned if everyone agreed with me...
Purdue wouldn't be the same team without Braden. That said and as good as he is there are two areas for him to continue to improve. 1) as tough as it is there is a fine line called balance where you control the team (something I know Terry Johnson liked in Braden), but you don't have to control all the scoring. There are times I think he takes on too large of a load and tries to do too much and it is then when he takes a chance 2) grow your teammates and let them help a bit with the load of making the offense go...make a few more easy passes and pick your spots. All that and Braden is one of the top PGs Purdue has had for several decades, but everybody can improve. Big Dog could have improved his ball handling...
That said, in the NW game many were critical of his over the shoulder pass to Zach that he has made many times that flew off of Zach fingers it wasn't on target as close as needed. I wonder if a rested Zach catches that?
Anyway, in the Iowa game the staff saw how teams are following Zach when Braden drives seeing that pass too successful too many times and are now following Zach and so they had Mason go to the top of the key as Braden was driving. Braden reads whether to shoot the ball and then reads Zach (all in a split second) and the next read was Mason who was open. Braden delivered the ball to Mason and Mason hit the bucket at the buzzer. Season is young...lot of enjoyment for those of us that also enjoy the season that lasts a LOOOOONG time with a lot of games. I hope those that are mostly focused on March find their enjoyment this year as well...
I haven't read every post in this thread, but has anyone said they were "offended" by what he said? I think some of us thought it was a bad look and said so. Nothing more, nothing less. It has become impossible on this board to say anything, and I mean anything, negative about CMP without the posse coming to protect him. He showed just a sliver of his Bob Knight love there with the "if you don't agree with me, you don't know basketball" but it wasn't a big deal and nobody will remember it a week from now. I didn't think he should have said it, but I would have forgotten about it already if it wasn't for this thread. Someone had mentioned other coaches and their press conferences. CMP is very tame compared to some of his peers. I think that is what made the comment stand out. It was unusual for him to take that approach. Something for us to discuss, but meaningless otherwise.
Those of us from the other side feel exactly the same way. There's not a week that goes by without some prolonged discussion on Matt's endless flaws and doomed career. I don't think those of us that like Matt's coaching got over reactive from thin air.
Agree with most of you post but I've only seen this when the criticism is hyperbolic, i.e. 'here we go again', 'Painter is too stubborn to learn', 'everything is the same as last year', etc.
I think this staff is struggling and will continue to struggle to figure out who to play when, how to get the players to drive better follow the game plan and execute, balance between playing to win now and getting younger guys minutes, etc. It's going to be a process and they're going to make a ton of mistakes.
Oh I agree on the fire painter, he can't coach, he chokes in the big games, crap like that. It's ridiculous and I usually just ignore those threads. It just irks me some when what I think is a legitimate critique comes up, the usual posse shows up to tell you how wrong you are and that CMP is always right, can't make a mistake..... I agree that in most cases it's probably because they have had it with the doomsday folks and are just reacting out of habit to that stuff. He's a very good coach and I have said so many times over the years on here. But like every human, he has flaws and makes mistakes. I think there are a few on here that fear if they actually admit that, they open up the doors to further criticism. This mistake (JMO) was a very minor one that will blow over very quickly if people like me just leave it alone.
Who is the other side? That's exactly my point, there shouldn't be "sides". It's actually possible to have a critique of CMP and still think he is a good coach. I for one like him as our coach and don't want to see anyone else coaching our team right now. BUT, that doesn't mean I won't comment negatively when I disagree with something he has said or done or in some cases not done. I don't think that puts me on any side.
I candidly have never seen anyone say that Matt Painter is always right. Can you point those posts out to me? If they exist, they'd be just as stupid as those who claim they know more than Painter based on watching one or two games per week rather than 100's of hours of practice.Oh I agree on the fire painter, he can't coach, he chokes in the big games, crap like that. It's ridiculous and I usually just ignore those threads. It just irks me some when what I think is a legitimate critique comes up, the usual posse shows up to tell you how wrong you are and that CMP is always right, can't make a mistake..... I agree that in most cases it's probably because they have had it with the doomsday folks and are just reacting out of habit to that stuff. He's a very good coach and I have said so many times over the years on here. But like every human, he has flaws and makes mistakes. I think there are a few on here that fear if they actually admit that, they open up the doors to further criticism. This mistake (JMO) was a very minor one that will blow over very quickly if people like me just leave it alone.
Always right, in that they never agree with any critique of him. Have they literally said "I think he is always right", no I doubt anyone has ever phrased it exactly that way, why would they? You've been here a long time, I'm sure if you're honest you will admit there are posters here that will never say he messed up or did something wrong. Or they will give a 3 page dissertation on why you are wrong and he is right.
What do you mean by the bolded statement? Has anyone ever said "they know more than Painter"? Does having a criticism of him mean that person thinks they know more than Painter? When is it ok to disagree with him or one of his decisions? That bolded part makes it sound like no one could possibly disagree with him because if you do, it means you think you know more than he does.
I figured I'd drop some hyperbole into my response since you admittedly did the same.
I candidly believe there are infinitesimally small portions of the fan base that are on the extreme ends of both sides. it just seems to me like the ones that are harshly critical appear to be much louder than the ones that are not.
No argument there. I agree that the ones that want him gone and go off the deep end on their criticism are much louder than most general posters on this board.
As one that is in that huge middle you describe, it would be great if we could be critical of CMP without being lumped in with those that want him fired.
Yes, we both used some hyperbole to describe the extreme ends of the posters on here. Guilty as charged!!
I've been critical of Painter at times, doesn't necessarily mean I want him fired (OK, maybe I did say he should be fired after the FDU game....) but, I'm also not of the belief that Painter is the best Purdue could ever do. Nor do I believe, and which is supported by data, that Painter is a strong tourney coach in March.
I think Painter is a solid X/O coach, wins a lot of games Nov-Feb, is becoming a better recruiter, but very stubborn and not flexible in his strategies or in-game adjustments.
It'll likely be a few years until we know whether someone out there can take Purdue further than Painter has.
It strikes me that there are at least a dozen commenters here who should go coach a DII team. There are a dozen teams within a few miles of any of their homes. Hell, there are probably a dozen girls HS teams looking for a great coach. And yes, you won't get to recruit, but you will get to teach young players what to do in all situations. Just go do it. Do it for two years. Prove you're a great coach. Then come back here.
Last edited:
Aaaamen, Amen, Amen.I just listened for the first time and wasn't offended at all. First, the comments made were just general comments that could be made by people that never watched the game. Second, I'm unaware of the things Matt said that they said. He said he was the common denominator and that that there needed to be changes. There have been changes just like he said. He never said there would be schematic changes, nor did I, or would I ever, expect huge changes from a team that was so good and has been good for a few years. There was one person added. I think Lance is a huge upgrade that helps Purdue, but he gets a bit trigger happy at times. Purdue NOW pushes it off misses. Turnovers are always unforced unless the ref makes a bad call or doesn't make the call he should. Teams don't force turnovers...the offense makes bad choices...some turnovers easier to make than others. Where I do think the non basketball talk they made that had some meat was that certain players have not wanted the ball or wanted to shoot in some of those games...excluding Jaden. I don't think he had an issue...nor did Zach "mostly" when he got the ball.
Although they spoke in generalities as noted turnovers are large as they are all not the whole story. Still...even if you take Braden and discuss his turnovers between FDU and NW they were different. Both experienced fatigue at the end and so that was common. One did get some some help, but a longer game and the other little to no help in handling the ball. FDU applied pressure all over the court a decent amount of the game and employed a run&jump as the first team in a long while to do so where it was pretty much Braden against the other team as a freshman. Lance was a big help to this team in that respect...handling the ball and saving Braden's legs a bit on D. NW's turnovers were even less self imposed than FDU meaning it was even easier to not make them. What they never said, but perhaps they didn't watch the games was that Braden does NOT have to be responsible for every score Purdue makes. Since turnovers are unforced, don't believe you have to be the one to make everything happen as a result of your pass. Sometimes you just need to get the ball rolling (he did this against Iowa) and let rotations by the D help lead to a basket. Sometimes he takes on too much. He places the ball in shooters hands ALL OVER the half court and we marvel at his vision and passing...but sometimes just hitting "an" open man rather than "the" best version is not only the safest but best at the time.
PJ was really good at this and many in the forum wanted different...someone to make something happen and Braden does this to a T....just need a little more PJ influence. Lastly, no fatigue and I think Zach probably handles the pass...but then we have a careless pass early in the game to Trey.
I have to laugh a bit because Knight was like this...he just didn't have the control over his emotions as well as Matt.
A coach that can't get past double digit seeds in March should take a look in the mirror, rather than tell people they don't understand. This tells me CMP will never change & probably never have success in March.
C'mon DDD, you're better than that. It's a message board about PU basketball, if we all agreed it would be worthless. Just a sound chamber for everyone to say the same thing. It's ok to be critical of CMP and not be a college coach. I make comments about my food at a restaurant and I'm not a chef.
But do you go to an Arby's and suggest that the beef would be more flavorful using a french butter and fresh thyme sous vide preparation? 🤣
Thank you. I'm very proud of his. I'm just calling a snake a snake and balls licker a balls licker...
As probably one of the few board posters who have actually worked at an Arby's.....I can relay this - you very likely don't really want to know the recipe, and even our good friend @ChoiceBeef could not improve upon the delectible magic that has been created.
Reading this thread I never took it that way. I took it that should a person go coach they will find out things are more difficult that some believe with the game going faster than they ever imagined. He could have said why not teach an AP class and see if everyone gets a 5. In the classroom there is no opposition trying to stop you. When dealing with humans results are different than a video game. I never took it to stop criticism, but that being in a different spot would provide a different perspective that you cannot get by just watching games. That is me...others no doubt can have a different interpretation.
I'm about ready to pull a radiator "again" and although many could replace a radiator having did this one (and this one is a bit of a problem) my perspective on doing this is different than others that haven't done this. Doesn't mean I won't make mistakes, just that my perspective is fully aware of the difficulty.
The problem with Matt being so locked into the analytics is that others coaches know exactly what he is going to do at all times. He needs to throw some curve balls every once in a while.
I'm not aware of anyone ever saying the job isn't difficult. Hell, if it was easy he wouldn't get paid millions of dollars to do it.Reading this thread I never took it that way. I took it that should a person go coach they will find out things are more difficult that some believe with the game going faster than they ever imagined. He could have said why not teach an AP class and see if everyone gets a 5. In the classroom there is no opposition trying to stop you. When dealing with humans results are different than a video game. I never took it to stop criticism, but that being in a different spot would provide a different perspective that you cannot get by just watching games. That is me...others no doubt can have a different interpretation.
I'm about ready to pull a radiator "again" and although many could replace a radiator having did this one (and this one is a bit of a problem) my perspective on doing this is different than others that haven't done this. Doesn't mean I won't make mistakes, just that my perspective is fully aware of the difficulty.
How about this: You have been very critical of the refs in many of our games (I don't disagree by the way) but neither of us have been refs at the D1 level. Maybe we just don't understand how difficult it is or how fast the game moves. Maybe we should wait until we have been refs for 2 years, prove we're good at it and then come back with a better perspective. Then we can make comments about the refs performance.
I think that is part of it. I suspect the variability in the range of data and variables inside the data over many teams has many individual populations combined into one population and question for a single game predictor. Perhaps if I understood the totality of the data gathered and found out it was not combined excessively I might be more comfortable with an individual's performance inside a game. All said, it is always about execution. Execute at a high end however you play and you will be successful. Now does their understanding of Matt's use of analytics change their game plan...then it is reasonable to assume that hurts Purdue's team
I don't want agreement; I want respect for how incredibly difficult it is to get 8 young men to do what we all know they should do in a 1/2 second decision situation. Under conditions in which another group of well-coached young men are busting their asses to stop our young men from doing what they have been told to do.
Oh I would never suggest that ref such and such would do a good job. I would never want to ref basketball for a variety of reasons...most having to do with fans. I can say that ref such and such blew a travel call, but I'd never suggest another ref would do better...because I don't know one that would at each given level. I have ref'd scrimmages and I'm horrible at it, because I end up watching the players and trying to correct them instead of making the call and so I'm fully aware that I would be a bad ref at any level. I can say that ref such and such might be better than such and such doing lower grades since they are usually just starting out. So, don't need two years to know that I'm horrible at it. I do know why though...why I'm horrible at it as I just said.
Never would I suggest I could ref better and never would I suggest ref such and such is going to do better in some future game. I can't do better and not sure of anyone that would do better, but he still made a bad call. Now, we can debate the call as to whether it was correct or not, but never would I suggest I could do better or anyone in my mind doing better. The call in this reference is like a certain situation in a game...those are always discussed just like the call is up for debate so is the call Matt makes...and then my rules understanding would give way to someone that knows the rules better like Pat our resident ref.
If you read every post, you will see that some people are clearly offended. Their egos seem to make them think that Painter's comments were directed at them, personally. Of course, many of the people who are insulted by Painter's use of the word "ignorant" are the same people who publicly describe him as stupid, stubborn, clueless, over-sized ego, and a loser. Talk about egos.
Many have no idea just how fast the game goes. For a variety of reasons when caring about the players, it is the most difficult job I ever had just with the human relationships...There is a perspective that is only gained by actually doing it. That is not a knock on anyone...it is just a reality. That doesn't mean a fan couldn't teach shooting better or ball handling or that a fan can't recognize poor defense or other things, but that fan and a coach will have a different perspective most likely. Matt grabs Kanon Cathings in what appears to be a great catch. How did Matt get him? Kanon's family had a different perspective than many great recruits. Why did Trey come to Purdue? Trey's uncle had a different perspective than general fans. I'm all for dialog in the forum and know you are as well, but not every take has the same value on every subject.
Yes, there are things I wish Matt did different, but I know he has his reasons and perhaps I too would agree if he spent the time to spell them out for me. I don't however pretend to know as much as Matt has forgot. We are old and not as sensitive as maybe some younger ones. I love ole Rummy's quote.
If someone is that easily offended then that is on them, no argument there,
