Both looking better than I imagined, same with Wisky, on the other hand MSU looks lousy right now, we know that will change as the season goes on. I think Purdue is the class of the league, however, some of these teams on the road won’t be easy dubs!
Illinois and IU
- Thread starter purduedavie
- Start date
IU is absolutely abysmal from 3s made and 3s taken (351 out of 352) and their 3% is obviously awful as well. I believe that is going to come and bite them eventually. Illinois does look good, domask and TJJ look tough to stop. Sparty will figure it out, always do. Let’s hope we continue improving on our end!
Ahhh ...that means they will hit 40+% against us then, book it.
Extremely early season B1G ranks IMO:
1 Purdue
2 Illinois
3 Wisconsin
4 OSU
5 Northwestern
6 Indiana
7 Nebraska
8-14 Hot fvcking mess
1 Purdue
2 Illinois
3 Wisconsin
4 OSU
5 Northwestern
6 Indiana
7 Nebraska
8-14 Hot fvcking mess
Haha for sure. But they are just about dead last in 3s attempted. So not sure 40% will do much…I guess if they hit 4 or 5 of them, it will help them stay in the game.
When a team is lousy at shooting threes (and Indiana is) it makes a lot of sense to be one of the lowest in threes taken lol.
I know this board is not a fan of Xavier Johnson (!), but he may be the best defensive point in the conference and getting him back will help plenty; it's tough for Cupps as an undersized true freshman to play over 30 mpg. Imagine Purdue having to go without Smith in B1G play; Cupps had to deal with Jamir Young and Dug McDaniel in his first two B1G games.
So IU sneaking in a 2-0 conf start against mid/below-mid level teams without X is huge - X looks to be back in about a week. And IU still has six games left against PSU, MInnesota, and Nebraska. Nebraska's bigs are so small and soft; both Purdue and IU should stomp them.
That having been said, to me Illinois looks like an real live national championship contender and they're deep with long, talented athletes from 1-3.
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Yeah absolutely. It seems woodsons offense just doesn’t incorporate the 3, as much as it probably should and does not have someone they can even rely on (besides Ware) to hit a decent %.
Also, I didn’t communicate it well, if at all, but IU will need the 3 ball to do anything in the tourney—Purdue fans know this well haha. They’ll be able to get away with the front court carrying them through the B1G with the lessor teams, but they’ll need the 3 to beat the better teams in the conf and be successful against the top 25 teams.
And yes, very good start for IU in conf play. I do think Maryland is not good at al, at least not right now and michigans best player had a horrible shooting night—missed a bunch of wide open shots. But a road win in the conf is tough to get, so kudos to them.
It’s weird with X. He hasn’t looked 100% for 2 years now. I’m not sure IU is any better with him. The offense is still meh with him on the floor, but I agree, he is a heck of a lot better on defense than Cupps. Cupps is fundamentally sound, but is like Morton. No threat on offense and can guard an average guard, but if they’re anything above that, they’re in trouble.
Illinois looks good and I wonder if they can stay that consistent all year. If so, they’ll definitely be a top contender…in conference and a tough out in the tourney.
Cupps is a 175 lb freshman that is afraid to shoot but almost never turns it over. And he plays sound positional defense. But he is pretty limited at this point. In other words, good for ten minutes a game, not nearly as good for 30+.
Agree that Maryland does not look good at all. A pre-season top half team, but they had terrible body language and looked like they just aren't enjoying playing for Willard. On the road at Michigan was a different story for me. Michigan is talented but not playing well at the moment, but they fought like hell and they still have potential. But McDaniel took one look at Cupps and started hoisting 'end of shot clock' shots. He was really undisciplined and I didn;t see much ball movement to get McDaniel open looks.
Finally, don't underestimate what a favorable conference shcedule can do for a team. Purdue had a terrible game at Nebraska and IU was terrible at Minnesota last year, but against those teams it worked out. This year IU has the current likeliest bottom of the league (NEB, MN, PSU, maybe MD) all as double plays. Eight conference games against those four helps a ton.
I haven't watch a ton of IU basketball this season, but to me they look better without X playing.
They have played better since he's been out. But when there is only one returning starter it's expected that things come together over the first few months. No guarantees, but the team's ceiling should be much higher with Johnson in the lineup.
They may not be good as a team, but Ware’s three point shooting concerns me a bit as he may try to pull Edey away from the lane. Perhaps Edey guards Reneau.
Sure seams to be that way. Sucks being a top 5 team lots of times. Teams get an extra burst on their home floor. Players usually have career games against us.
The early losses had a few worried about the Big, but there is enough talent there and coaching that all road games will be tough as well as some home games. Depending on how well the badgers or boilers do against Arizona...the Big could put itself in place for more than 7 or so teams to the tourney again. The unbalanced schedule comes into play again...
I wrote on that elsewhere. In the little I've seen of them, they both go out on the perimeter, but it seems Ware is more comfortable there than Reneau. Reneau seeks the rim and is definitely a lefty more than some "rightys" are "rightys". Trey will be interesting in that game in how he performs. Caleb I think will be fine with Ware, but does Purdue need Mason's shooting? If so, then Zach moves out some. Zach has actually shown decent footwork defending a guy with the ball. Zach is just too slow when a guy is attacking the lane to deflect the pass the guy makes and so you can see he has worked on his feet, but his hands are still slow. Actually, I'm just as concerned with how they defend Zach. Ware is quick enough to get on topside and you are not going to lob it over him. If he does really get in deny position and IU has pressure on the pass to the baseline if Zach seals him up high...you hope that at sometime a dribble to get the angle would happen. Now if Ware is behind Zach, he may be a little light to keep Zach away from the rim. IU has one guy that is just out to there to push and shove and see if they call anything. I can see him being on Zach on D, but IU then allows Zach to play one man zone because that guy does not seem to have a lot of skill. We know Galloway is going to try to get in the lane and use his height against the Purdue guards...straight arming as he goes. Oddly he seems to be shooting like two years ago instead of last year...at least so far...
IU has a lot of talent. Obviously there are some willing to spend a lot of money on their sports and that is in addition to what the students pay. Should be a good one. Purdue just needs poise since it has been missing the last two years...AND not got caught trailing in that sideline screen since IU has not shot the 3 ball well. Purdue should be able to slide under and keep the Galloway and whoever from turning the corner "better" into the lane for that mid range game that has hurt Purdue in the recent past.
I can go with all that except Illinois being a contender. Too early for me to believe that, but they will be a tough out I expect. X on D...I don't know. Seems like many of the pgs I still think of offense. Cupp is probably weaker than Braden was last year and we already know what 30 minutes and more did to him over the course of the season. Woody does have more talent than most teams and he is better than the recent coaches, but if the outside shooting doesn't improve it will be a lot tougher for IU than if they could make 4 or 5 a game while shooting less than 12.
I thought the same thing. He has talent, but doesn't make he team better. In fact, he seems to disrupt his own team. I saw an artical where Woodson has been all over trying to get him to be more of a leader. But it may not be in him. It happens.
So if Ware fronts Zach, does Zach completely dominate the offensive boards?I wrote on that elsewhere. In the little I've seen of them, they both go out on the perimeter, but it seems Ware is more comfortable there than Reneau. Reneau seeks the rim and is definitely a lefty more than some "rightys" are "rightys". Trey will be interesting in that game in how he performs. Caleb I think will be fine with Ware, but does Purdue need Mason's shooting? If so, then Zach moves out some. Zach has actually shown decent footwork defending a guy with the ball. Zach is just too slow when a guy is attacking the lane to deflect the pass the guy makes and so you can see he has worked on his feet, but his hands are still slow. Actually, I'm just as concerned with how they defend Zach. Ware is quick enough to get on topside and you are not going to lob it over him. If he does really get in deny position and IU has pressure on the pass to the baseline if Zach seals him up high...you hope that at sometime a dribble to get the angle would happen. Now if Ware is behind Zach, he may be a little light to keep Zach away from the rim. IU has one guy that is just out to there to push and shove and see if they call anything. I can see him being on Zach on D, but IU then allows Zach to play one man zone because that guy does not seem to have a lot of skill. We know Galloway is going to try to get in the lane and use his height against the Purdue guards...straight arming as he goes. Oddly he seems to be shooting like two years ago instead of last year...at least so far...
IU has a lot of talent. Obviously there are some willing to spend a lot of money on their sports and that is in addition to what the students pay. Should be a good one. Purdue just needs poise since it has been missing the last two years...AND not got caught trailing in that sideline screen since IU has not shot the 3 ball well. Purdue should be able to slide under and keep the Galloway and whoever from turning the corner "better" into the lane for that mid range game that has hurt Purdue in the recent past.
short boards he would depending on where he was and the ball. Point is Ware I don't think can play behind him as he is pretty thin and Renea is a bit short. Fronting him would prevent any pass going to zach for the most part unless a power triangle was established and executed and/or proper positioning for a feed while Zach held him up high. This is why I think it will be interesting what Trey does. He is from down south and a lot of his friends wanted him to go to IU and I know this will be a big game for him.
Two games ago I was sitting beside a guy that I scouted in high school that just retired as the Warsaw coach. I asked about his dad and he said he passed away a couple of years ago. The family were Purdue fans. Anyway, there was a coach (drawing a blank) that has been extremely effective as a coach. He coached Tipton before Cliff Hawkins took the job. This coach ALWAYS fronted every team's players down low...just what he did. Didn't matter who he was playing. Certainly you can do things in high school you can't in college, but I don't think I ever saw a coach ALWAYS from the low post and this coach won big in Ohio and Indiana. He was a bit strange and there were many times there would be a time out and he wouldn't even talk to the team.
Anyway, I don't know that Ware would front Zach, but boy if it came down to a basket, they could front and devote some backside help to board depending on the threat from Purdue.Your point on fronting is yes he may not get the ball to score...unless he grabbed the board...which he could on a soft, closer shot.
That keeps Zach in the lane. It is what I expect...unless Mason is in there and then Zach has Ware and Mason gets Reneau
Agree. As strong a rebounder as Zach is, they would have to bring backside help, which should open up opportunities for Trey. Ultimately, they’ll have to concede something.short boards he would depending on where he was and the ball. Point is Ware I don't think can play behind him as he is pretty thin and Renea is a bit short. Fronting him would prevent any pass going to zach for the most part unless a power triangle was established and executed and/or proper positioning for a feed while Zach held him up high. This is why I think it will be interesting what Trey does. He is from down south and a lot of his friends wanted him to go to IU and I know this will be a big game for him.
Two games ago I was sitting beside a guy that I scouted in high school that just retired as the Warsaw coach. I asked about his dad and he said he passed away a couple of years ago. The family were Purdue fans. Anyway, there was a coach (drawing a blank) that has been extremely effective as a coach. He coached Tipton before Cliff Hawkins took the job. This coach ALWAYS fronted every team's players down low...just what he did. Didn't matter who he was playing. Certainly you can do things in high school you can't in college, but I don't think I ever saw a coach ALWAYS from the low post and this coach won big in Ohio and Indiana. He was a bit strange and there were many times there would be a time out and he wouldn't even talk to the team.
Your point on fronting is yes he may not get the ball to score...unless he grabbed the board...which he could on a soft, closer shot.
Aggressiveness always helps. But then there's coaching.
You get it, but not sure all do. There are no solutions...just what you are willing to give up. If Purdue develops a strong high-low game with Trey and Zach the problem is solved I think. There are sooooooooo many variables the coaches will have at their fingertips that we don't have unless you catch all the games possible and then go over them slowly.
How does Purdue shoot? How does IU shoot? Does Purdue play with poise? Does IU get into the lane with their guards, because with Ware and Reneau Zach can't leave them and so Purdue can't trail coming over the top of the screens. Matt is worried about the 3 ball too much in my opinion. There are times IMO you just don't think a certain person is a threat until they are and if you don't find that out late...going under has helped the whole team and if you find out early...then there is plenty of game to go. Still, you can quit with the pre-game data too early AND too late. We just know the coach is wrong if the team doesn't win.
I don't know when that game is, but I assume Purdue has 6 or 7 games before going to Bloomington and in each game I hope we see progress. People have talked about Cam being a good shooter, but I have no feel. I know he has made some and I know his off hand goes forward more than most, but I think he had made progress on D.
I did catch a bit of PSU and they almost beat Maryland at home. Maryland is struggling right now. Neither team could keep the guards out of the lane and so Purdue isn't the only team. I think Purdue has improved already. I was a bit concerned after the X game and then Purdue turned up the D and made a jump in the tourney. As far as NW they have 15 fouls that doesn't hurt their offense that can be used to not let Zach score and that is 15 times the refs decide to call fouls...which I thought this year was much better than last year. Anyway, that game is usually tough, but if Purdue plays with poise they can go down there and win.
Reneau can hit outside too. They just haven’t had to yet.
His development is impressive and didn’t know he had a 3 pt shot too. Did he steal it from Galloway? That dude cannot hit a 3 to save his life
Very much disagree. Painter is way smarter than that.
Reneau is a spinning, two direction, lateral movement, up and under post player. Ware is a much better matchup for Edey. And if Edey guards Reneau, Ware will rim run and score from the short corner like crazy.
Maybe, but thus far he is 3 for 14 for his career.
Ware wasn’t great last year, but has shot well from 3 in the early going this year.
Being a Hoosier fan, our shooting doesnt arrive till next year. After first three games, i thought no way this team makes the tourney, but they have started playing much harder, and guarding the three point line much better. I think X has lost some speed, and the ball stops some when he is on the floor. Indiana has played much better with him on the bench, and I am not a fan of his on floor antics. Ware/Reneau have been great, but there is no way they can stop Edey. Once he gets position, he will keep them from fronting him and Purdue moves the ball so well, the angles will be there for entry passes. Purdue wins both games this year by 10+.
1. Purdue
2. Illinois
3. OSU
4. Indiana
5. Wisconsin
6. Nothwestern
--Maryland should be much better than they are with three starters back. They look like they are having no fun and Willard has to be feeling the heat. Scott killed us last year, and he looked not interested going 1-8 from floor against us.
1. Purdue
2. Illinois
3. OSU
4. Indiana
5. Wisconsin
6. Nothwestern
--Maryland should be much better than they are with three starters back. They look like they are having no fun and Willard has to be feeling the heat. Scott killed us last year, and he looked not interested going 1-8 from floor against us.
Ware was a terrible, low-confidence mess last year that ended up buried on the Oregon bench. He averaged 6.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg on 45% fg and 27% 3pt. That's when he was coached by Dana Altman, who after a good game from Ware said at a press conference "at least he acted like he wanted to be here tonight."
This year he is at 17.1, 9.4, 64% fg, 50% 3pt. He is being coached by Mike Woodson.
Dana Altman sucks. Mike Woodson does not suck.
If he keeps up that pace he is still better than Galloway. Curious what happened to his shot. Was 41% last year and now 3/22 for 14%
Wisconsin and Ohio State have the easiest BT schedules among the contenders. (Net Rankings)
1. Purdue(4) and Illinois(21)
3. Wisconsin(22)
4. Ohio State(24)
5. Northwestern(53)
6. Michigan State(87)
7. Who cares!
Johnson is a good defensive player, but let just look at steals, Johnson avg is about 0.027 per minute,
Lance Jones averages 0.059 per minute,twice as good as Johnson, playing a top 10 schedule vs IU's weak schedule. Braden Smith is at 0.054 steals per minute. So X is not the best! Don't look @ rebounding, AST/G, cause Braden is running away with those stats too!
I'm not convinced XJ is the best defensive guard in the B1G but I also wouldn't use steals to make that determination. Scheme and circumstance affect steal rate big time.
Purdues adjusted defense is no. 4 in the country(T-Rank), IU is 37, again playing a schedule of 9 vs 138 (Pomeroy)!
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