IMO Lance Jones is an outstanding defender, but not a point guard. My point was that XJ may be the best defensive point in the conference, not the best defensive player. I'd take XJ over Smith as a defensive point any day, but that's me. Smith gets beat on straight line drives too much . That's not to say he's a bad defender; he's physically strong and works hard on that end but has some size and quickness limitations.
Illinois and IU
- Thread starter purduedavie
- Start date
Lance Jones has as good of numbers as Johnson when comes to scoring, rebounding and ASSISTs as Xavier, may be not a true point but has been as effective as Johnson and again against better teams! Braden has a quickness limitations? Really???
Jones plays the point quite a bit and also guards the point quite a bit.
Reneaus outside shot isn’t that good and he needs a while to load up. There’s a reason he doesn’t shoot out there and I don’t think Woodson wants him to. He more than likely doesn’t help if he does shoot from out there. I’d let him shoot all he wants from 3 tbh
Shooting arrives next year? One guy isn’t gonna do it. And hopefully he is more ready than Mgbako has been shooting the ball this year.
IU had only played one good team so far and have played down to the competition for the other games (for the most part). I think the lack of 3 ball is going to hurt them eventually.
Galloway regressed back to what type of shooter he really is from the outside.
If he’s open woody says bombs away. Said as much.
Unless it is in the final minutes of a close game I think Matt is not overly worried about Ware's 3 ball to where he has Zach chasing him at the arc. If he is going to play there I would suspect Caleb has enough height, strength and quickness to defend out there. What if he hits 3 and gets 3 extra points...can that not be made up elsewhere...easily? However, if it is close and the game about over...that is a different thing. You can watch them play and Reneau is more comfortable inside that Ware in the games I've seen. Reneau is power...Ware is more finesse and the other guy they send it to see if the refs call anything...is...just that.
I’d let him shoot alll day. That’s not his game and won’t be this year, maybe next. But if he wants to jack up 3s, then by all means. He’s good around the basket 6 feet and in.
Where do you think he is comfortable at...perimeter or inside? Do you see him as a finesse player or a power player?
Both ware and Malik have great touch. Shooting stroke is good too. Ware seems comfortable at all three levels. Malik is most comfortable in the post by far but he will(expected to) take an open shot. Malik is a power player.
Lots of insightful posts, thanks to all participating, much appreciated.
Malik and TKR have similar styles but Malik is a little quicker/faster. Both prefer to back down defenders on the block and have good touch near the rim.
As for Galloway and his inability to hit a 3, I am preparing myself for him to go 10/12 from 3 against us.
We watch a lot of IU in our family and I have thought the same about Reneau and TKR.
IU is a pretty traditional team in a lot of ways with a true power forward and small forward, rather than the stretch 4 and three guard line-ups that have become so common in college basketball.
Edey will guard reneau....our 4s will guard ware....if any of those guys get the ball in the post then we will double, everytime....we will make iu hit 3s or contested long 2s to beat us....we will also make their bigs pass, which will lead to turnovers....guys like mbako, Galloway, cups, and Gunn will have to beat us....we will not let iu dominate the paint....we have the best and deepest frontcourt in the country....to beat us one of your guards will have to go off....buie, langborg, and berry scored 70 against us and it took ot to bring us down....iu will have to really improve their outside shooting to beat us...along with the usual super friendly whistle...
Very well said. I’ll be interested to see what type of tempo we go with vs them.
I’m not completely convinced that Edey will guard Reneau because Ware has a high point of release and shoots over people in the paint. I think Edey can bother that with his height. Not sure Gillis, for example, can. It may be easier to deal with Ware’s 3 point threat with Edey on him.
I can see Painter going either way with it.
I see that with Trey and Caleb, but with Mason I can see Zach on Ware...or a LOT of switching vertically depending on Ware's location
Gillis defending Ware in the post would be worth the price of admission.
Would hope the refs wouldn't swallow the whistle in that scenario.
Would hope the refs wouldn't swallow the whistle in that scenario.
they will swallow the whistle in Bloomington - not called the hall of calls for nothing
Can't wait for Ware to have to guard Edey. Ware has shown he isn't able to guard guys his size on the defensive side and can't produce on offense when guarded by defenders that are equal in size.
Edey is a really tough cover for anyone (clearly), but I'm wondering what you're basing this on?
When IU got squished by UConn, Clingan, who is huge and good, had 7 pts, 9 rbs, and Ware had 11 and 8.
In IU's two conference games, JuJu Reese and Tarris Reed have been kinda destroyed by Ware. Ware had 18 pts, 14 rebounds against Reese, who is not a massive guy but is a quality big. Reed is 6'10, 270 and Ware ate him up.
In IU's only other P5 game to date against a crappy UL team, Ware outplayed their big, who had 6 pts in 32 minutes.
Against a decent Harvard team Ware had 28 and 8, and their two centers combined had 8 and 6.
Again, Edey is a near impossible cover at times, but Ware has been pretty good at defending true bigs so far, including the 7'2" 280 guy on UConn.
And yes, Edey and Ware will be matched up on both ends absent switches or foul trouble.
if that was to me...vertical switching directs that comment. Some teams only switch horizontal screens and not vertical. Being an IU fan you should know Knight did that a lot. Nobody expects Mason to defend Ware on teh blocks. It could happen through switching though. I think Caleb and Trey take Ware unless Mason replaces them and then Zach will have Ware...unless Mason finds him outside the arc or some switch has created it. If Mason ended up on Ware on the blocks Zach will be right there as well, because the whole reason Mason could end up on Ware is that Mason is needed for the 3 ball and Ware has now went from the outside in and of course I expect Zach to be inside as well. Should any of that happen, Purdue needs to get a body on the weakside boards to battle Reneau. Was this to me? Kinda stupid if I were to believe that Matt desired Mason on Ware on the blocks.
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Ware plays very little on the perimeter and doesn't put the ball on the floor and drive like TJD did. However, unlike TJD when Ware catches on the perimeter he will shoot it. Edey can absolutely deal with Ware on the perimeter as long as he keeps focus. Edey's bigger defensive problem with IU last year was trouble in drop coverage on high post handoffs to Hood-Schifino. It was a major factor in JHS getting going. This year Mgbako, Gunn, and Galloway will fill that role with Ware, with Ware rim running after the handoff. And if Edey switches to Reneau that's who will set high screens while Ware posts up Kaufman, which is a bad matchup for Purdue.
EDIT: I can show you! Edey gets in no man's land in the drop while Trayce runs the opposite lane. Two quick video examples. You'll see that Woody draws stuff up specifically to get Edey in motion and not rim protecting:
IU has a defensive scheme that is uses for every team that is helpful with Edey; IU does not ever have their bigs hedge perimeter ball screens. Instead the closest perimeter guy shows at the ball handler and the big guarding the screener stays back. At times something has to give and that style can put the perimeter in rotation, but the upside is that it prevents a wing getting switched onto the big in a two man game. I would expect that Painter does very little high screening with Edey and just sends him to the post.
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If X has a son who plays ball and signs with any team other than IU, maybe they can face each other in about 10 years.
IU hit 11 threes against Purdue last year.
As a team.
Combined for both games.
The IU offense just isn't geared toward them.
I know Ware can shoot it, but was unaware he never put the ball on the floor. Drop coverage goes back farther than Schifino. It actually was very beneficial to X either the year before or two years ago I can't recall. Where I see IU not hedging screens is due to their guards...especially Galloway with his size. When the IU guards are on a Purdue player after going on top of a sideline screen or just the Purdue player going towards a handoff or ball screen the defense is more of what I'm used to or what was allowed years ago and that is the defender gets a body up tight enough to get space enough to get a body and arm between the handoff or screen intended to happen...therefore there was no reason to hedge and buy time because the defender is already in good position to defend. Doing so keeps everyone in good defensive position, where a hedge could create problems in recovery and/or rotations...but all this starts with the defender on the perimeter...
FWIW, I think Purdue switches too much and wish Purdue fought through screens more, but I know why Purdue switches and most the time, but not all, it is Matt's concern for the 3 ball and making sure someone doesn't turn the corner and drive it easily...as well as Matt "maybe thinking" the guards in particular are not physical enough to fight through screens. There have been many cases where I have seen a guard defending a big under the basket due to a previous switch. FWIW, I do NOT think coaches dealing with kids not yet in high school should allow switching...or extremely small amounts of time. Kids need to follow a player and fight through things...need to learn to play D a second earlier and be "accountable" instead of another getting the defender. A coach assigns you to a player for a reason...switching if often reduces the application of that reason.
Not "never puts the ball on the floor." My words were "doesn't put it on the floor and drive." So he is unlikely to catch in the high post and bounce to the rim. He can handle in transition (though not as well as Reneau) and he puts it on the floor after post catches.
In the Uconn game, Ware hit two outside shots early and then went 0-8 the rest of the way. When he went into the post/right below the FT line, he was bothered by Clingan's length and physicality and couldn't finish over him. Clingan was also coming back from foot surgery and still is, so I wouldn't say Clingan was at 100% that game and he really hasn't looked 100% this season. (one could even argue he hasn't been playing great against good, competitive bigs too). Reed is not a top big, I'm not sure I would call a 13 and 8 game by a 7 foot 5 star "destroying" another big. But I'll give you Juju, who also had 14 and 8 vs Ware. Although him and Maryland aren't anywhere near what the were last year and I have no idea what is going on with them. U of L is not good and you know that haha. Ware only had 12 and 7 and was in foul trouble. He did have a great game vs Harvard...but it's Harvard and they don't get dudes like Ware. He should destroy them.
I guess long story short, Ware vs bigs his size/skill level hasn't been all that impressive yet. he has put up numbers against the lessor competition like he should. He has all the tools to be dominant. He could/should have so many more rebounds, but at times it seems like he relies just on his skill and nothing else. I know he is averaging 10 a game, but he could easily avg at leaset another 2 a game. An odd stat to me that IU has a big front court and is ranked 208th in rebound margin and 286th in rebounds per game (I know that's an overall team stat, but still Ware and Reneau I would think would have more of an impact). Maybe that will change, but I would have thought those numbers would be better vs the lessor comp they have played already.
In the top screen in the first few seconds (12?) you can see a few things. 1) IU setting double screen for however Schifino is played and Ethan is on him at this time…probably trying more height. Ethan tried to go under ,but TJD set a moving screen in reality, but no doubt taught (or should be)…not that I expect that to be called, just what was able to take place. Ethan tries to go under and TJD screens him. This was set up by the step towards Schifono’s left that moved Ethan that way. Ethan should NOT have responded and had him go with his off hand…he would still have to bring the ball back to his right hand for the mid range and Ethan would be on that side of his body. I did like going under the screen on Schifino for the most part…and Zach was NOT challenging shots last year.
IN the bottom video we see Ethan again. I don’t know what happened seconds before, but Schifino is still going to his right and there is too large a gap between ethan and Schifino and so Ethan does not fight through as well as he could since he is not close enough to do such…and by not forcing away from TJD by making him go more left you now have TJD with the overload to ball side cleared for a lob. If no TJD and the D would change I believe. I think Zach will continue to challenge some shots and that is something he never did in the past.
UCONN doesn't run thru their big on offense like Purdue does.
This is a good point. I said Edey would definitely guard Reneau, but this is a good argument he might not.
