I need to vent.

[gr8indoorsman]

I commend you for your courage, BleedinHeart.

Here are some numbers from Robert Kaplan of Stanford that you may find enlightening.

Opinion | A False Narrative About ‘Misinformation’ and Covid Vaccines

The evidence suggests resistance is based largely on pre-existing attitudes, not bad information.

www.wsj.com

I suspect 10-15% of people won't get it just because they're scared of needles.

 

[guidelinesa2]

Healthcare is something that doesn't make sense to make it a free market.

ER is a losing business for hospitals. A profit-maximizing hospital would cut ER and just focus strictly on the high margin surgeries.

So a Hollywood star who is willing to pay a shit load for plastic surgery will be VIP to the hospital and will have priority over the child who is burned in a fire and need immediate care. Not sure that's the world I want to live in.



Huh?!? That makes no sense. If the participants seek to maximize REVENUE and not PROFIT, then all you need to do is to sell a $100 bill for $90. Your revenue will be through the roof (up till however much you have in inventory), and you will dominate the market.

Sorry, I try to give you the benefit of doubt, but the more you speak the more you are exposing your ignorance.

Monopolies maximize profit by constricting the supply, since there is no limit to price they can charge. In a competitive market, a firm seeks to maximize revenue until marginal costs exceed marginal revenue.

Rationing is a feature of closed economies, not market based systems.

Healthcare DOES make sense to run as a market, saying the opposite is foolish.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Basic economics says that in a free market system, the participants seek to maximize revenue and market share, not maximize profit, as profit is not guaranteed without market share. That why competition LOWERS prices. The lowest price wins, you dont get to low prices by maximizing profit.

As the owner of a profitable business, I will tell you that this is complete horseshit. No one talks about revenue generation and market share without looking at it through the lens of profitability. Well, no one who wants to run a successful business, anyway.

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

Monopolies maximize profit by constricting the supply, since there is no limit to price they can charge. In a competitive market, a firm seeks to maximize revenue until marginal costs exceed marginal revenue.

Rationing is a feature of closed economies, not market based systems.

Healthcare DOES make sense to run as a market, saying the opposite is foolish.

You are confusing some basic economic terms and how companies actually operate.

From a pure theoretical perspective, in a free (capitalistic) market that has no government regulation or intervention, companies will compete for business which should drive both innovation and efficient pricing. This results in a net positive for consumers (better products and prices).

That does NOT mean low price wins for most every product or service being sold. Maybe for pure commodities like the paper clip, but nothing that really generates actual innovation.

Companies will pursue strategies that ultimately generate the most PROFIT. Generating revenue that doesn’t drive profit is useless and consumes capital. The only exception would be driving prices down to eliminate competition (but that generally considered to be anti-competitive business practice).

Apple is probably the most ‘capitalistic’ company in the world. They have developed incredibly efficient supply chains and are far from the lowest cost to the consumer. Android dominates the global smartphone market, but you add up Samsung and all the other companies making Android smartphones and they make a fraction of the profit that Apple does … which is why Apple has generated so much value.

And back to my original point. While the US healthcare system is not a true capitalistic market (there are many government regulations and restrictions) … it’s probably the closest thing to a capitalist market as exists in global healthcare.

 

[charlespig]

Monopolies maximize profit by constricting the supply, since there is no limit to price they can charge. In a competitive market, a firm seeks to maximize revenue until marginal costs exceed marginal revenue.

Rationing is a feature of closed economies, not market based systems.

Healthcare DOES make sense to run as a market, saying the opposite is foolish.

Geez, you sound like someone who reads a few pages in an econ textbook and assume what works "in theory" necessarily applies in the real world.

There are elements of a competitive market that we can use in a healthcare system, but very often, in the real world, there is just not enough competition. For example, in theory, insurance companies should fight to offer lower premium until the marginal revenue still exceeds the marginal cost, but in reality, for a wide range of reasons (e.g. you can't calculate a precise marginal revenue/cost, collusion between doctors and insurance companies, high bar of entry) it doesn't work that way, and they are usually not covered in basic econ.

If every hospital is run as a profit-maximizing private business, they should cut their ER department. It is a money-losing business. It takes A LOT of resources and hospitals can hardly cover those costs. That, or increasing the price to ER to something exorbitant. Either way, it is not a society that we want to live in. There are value in saving people's lives, even if those people are poor.

You seem to fall for the false promise that profit-driven markets can point to true value. But as Oscar Wilde observed, "Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing." If a tree has no exchange value, our market society behaves as if its destruction is meaningless. If exchange value can be derived from its destruction, we can’t act fast enough.

If you are truly interested in learning how capitalism works (and how it fails), here's a starter book that might help you.

Amazon product ASIN B076H4WMY1

 

[Scout70]

Many of them are African Americans, so I suspect racism may underlie your rant.

I hope that is not the case, bh.

that's a hell of a leap of conclusion. there is no need or cause to infer this is anything other than a condemnation of the stubborn, irradiating ly vocal individuals ( no color, no race inferred) who insist on keeping us all in danger in the so-called name of personal rights. I'm with him you want personal rights fine stay home and roll the dice. you obviously think you know more than the doctors anyway so why would you trust them to treat if you want to prevent it?

 

[DG Boiler]

that's a hell of a leap of conclusion. there is no need or cause to infer this is anything other than a condemnation of the stubborn, irradiating ly vocal individuals ( no color, no race inferred) who insist on keeping us all in danger in the so-called name of personal rights. I'm with him you want personal rights fine stay home and roll the dice. you obviously think you know more than the doctors anyway so why would you trust them to treat if you want to prevent it?

You must not read this guy's insane rants very frequently.

 

[TheGunner]

WTF? This isn't even tangentially related to the point of this thread.

🥲

 

[EdwardElric]

here's something like 90% of this board will agree with. we can all agree that everyone who disagrees with your own personal opinions is an ignorant asshole.

pack it up, let's go home boys. we solved the problems

 

[SDBoiler1]

I suspect 10-15% of people won't get it just because they're scared of needles.

That seems about right. There is also a not insignificant percentage of folks (I know some personally) who have pre-existing conditions/comorbidities (diabetes, lung problems, serious heart issues, suppressed immune systems) and they have been told by doctors to NOT get vaccinated because of concern what the vaccine may do to their immune systems. Their bodies would not deal well with it.

I think a number of people on this page and the mainstream media demonize folks like this - it’s shameful. Many in this category would get the shots if not for their conditions. They wear masks just about everywhere outside of their homes.

For the record, I and my family got the Pfizer or Moderna shots in April without adverse reactions.

 

[purduepat1969]

Was going to post this publicly on my Facebook page, but then figured I didn't want to start a shit storm there.

And since this place already is a shit storm -- I'm just going to copy/paste it here instead.

------

I'd like to thank all the unvaccinated Hoosiers out there who took the risk, got Covid, and are now clogging the ERs, hospital beds, and ICUs in central Indiana.

My grandmother has spent the last 15 hours sitting and waiting for a hospital bed (not Covid) in Hamilton County. Multiple hospitals were checked, all in similar situations. No bed available, but she was transferred somewhere where it was more likely a bed would open up... yea!

Of course, the health care workers were pleasant as they could be about the situation. They are understaffed, over-worked so they deserve a ton of slack.

So when is it appropriate to talk about the rationing of health care?

At what point are we allowed to tell the unvaccinated in the hospital that "Sorry, you need to vacate your hospital bed -- we'll be wheeling you outside in just a moment". I mean personal responsibility right? Personal freedom? Personal choice?

Don't take the vaccine. Don't wear a mask. I really don't care anymore. But get out of the hospital bed and be personally accountable for your choice. Stop going to the ER, stop going to the hospital.

You know the risk now. Live with it, and die with it if God so deems it necessary.

Drug users overdose daily by their own choice...I say let them die.

African Americans are shooting each other in major cities in record numbers by their own choice and innocent people are dying...I say let them just shoot each other.

Uninsured illegal aliens utilize emergency rooms for healthcare by their own choice of being here illegally...I say let them be accountable for their choice and suffer the consequences.

Amateur mountain climbers are risking the lives of emergency responders on a daily basis due to their incompetence and choices...I say let them die.

I'm sorry about your grandmother. But see how ridiculous your argument sounds when you apply it to other choices? BTW, for the morons of the board, my above sentences were sarcastic...

 

[Hausta01]

Drug users overdose daily by their own choice...I say let them die.

African Americans are shooting each other in major cities in record numbers by their own choice and innocent people are dying...I say let them just shoot each other.

Uninsured illegal aliens utilize emergency rooms for healthcare by their own choice of being here illegally...I say let them be accountable for their choice and suffer the consequences.

Amateur mountain climbers are risking the lives of emergency responders on a daily basis due to their incompetence and choices...I say let them die.

I'm sorry about your grandmother. But see how ridiculous your argument sounds when you apply it to other choices? BTW, for the morons of the board, my above sentences were sarcastic...

They still won't get it, don't worry

 

[EdwardElric]

I am sorry for your situation, but in no civilized society is this an acceptable solution.

As I said before, if you extrapolate this thinking from the OP to other issues, it doesn't work in any civilized society. It simply doesn't. I understand the frustration and my heart goes out to the OP, but it can't be the world we are building.

 

[BleedinGold]

Drug users overdose daily by their own choice...I say let them die.

African Americans are shooting each other in major cities in record numbers by their own choice and innocent people are dying...I say let them just shoot each other.

Uninsured illegal aliens utilize emergency rooms for healthcare by their own choice of being here illegally...I say let them be accountable for their choice and suffer the consequences.

Amateur mountain climbers are risking the lives of emergency responders on a daily basis due to their incompetence and choices...I say let them die.

I'm sorry about your grandmother. But see how ridiculous your argument sounds when you apply it to other choices? BTW, for the morons of the board, my above sentences were sarcastic...

They still won't get it, don't worry

As I said before, if you extrapolate this thinking from the OP to other issues, it doesn't work in any civilized society. It simply doesn't. I understand the frustration and my heart goes out to the OP, but it can't be the world we are building.

I really do get this.

Here's where I draw the difference.

The hospital system has already accounted for all of the alternative care items that were mentioned. It's built in to the system.

However, this is a pandemic. Which is a crisis. This means the system was only built to handle so much overflow.

It's not the drugs, the shootings, the mountain climbers (wtf), that are putting a strain on the medical center.

To allude to that is illogical.

The strain is coming from the VOLUNTARY prolonged pandemic.

I'm cool with people choosing to not get vaccinated, and if the hospital can accommodate them that's fine.

But the overflow is what the overflow is. Whatever that "allotted" bed space is should be the max usable for a hospital. If the hospital is being underutilized for it's standard care than it can be used to accommodate even more -- but to block standard care patients because of the voluntary choice of some to keep the crisis going? That shit pisses me off.

In time the hospital system will adjust to the "new normal", but we aren't there yet.

I get that hospitals can't mandate this, nor governments. I'm not asking them to.

I'm asking the voluntary unvaccinated, who don't trust the majority of medical professionals, who don't trust the majority of scientists, who don't trust the CDC, and the standard medical system, who believe that they are at low risk --- to essentially see it through. Stick to their guns.

The nurses and staff that don't believe in vaccines have quit. So what you have left are the doctors, nurses, and medical staffs that believe in the vaccines. The ones that believe in the science that you doubt. The ones that told you that there was a risk. Why go to them for treatment after the fact? You don't believe in them, and you obviously don't trust them, their training, or their expertise.

Voluntarily stay home. Let your social media friends comfort you. The same ones that like and comment on your vaccine and mask posts. They will come to support you. They can tell you about the latest unapproved wonder treatment.

 

[EdwardElric]

The nurses and staff that don't believe in vaccines have quit. So what you have left are the doctors, nurses, and medical staffs that believe in the vaccines. The ones that believe in the science that you doubt. The ones that told you that there was a risk. Why go to them for treatment after the fact? You don't believe in them, and you obviously don't trust them, their training, or their expertise.

Voluntarily stay home. Let your social media friends comfort you. The same ones that like and comment on your vaccine and mask posts. They will come to support you. They can tell you about the latest unapproved wonder treatment.

I can state, with almost unequivocal certainty, that if you think that nurses are quitting because they do not "believe in vaccines", you are wrong. And you still might not understand the issues that are happening on a society-wide level to engage in this discussion.

Nurses do not "believe in vaccines" or "believe in science". They are nurses. This discussion is framed so bizarrely it's hard to really engage with. If I showed this argument to my father-in-law in rural Japan, he would be utterly baffled by the way you have framed it. The discourse in the USA around this stuff is so broken we are talking about nurses who "believe in vaccines".

What are we doing here, guys?

 

[BleedinGold]

I can state, with almost unequivocal certainty, that if you think that nurses are quitting because they do not "believe in vaccines", you are wrong. And you still might not understand the issues that are happening on a society-wide level to engage in this discussion.

Nurses do not "believe in vaccines" or "believe in science". They are nurses. This discussion is framed so bizarrely it's hard to really engage with. If I showed this argument to my father-in-law in rural Japan, he would be utterly baffled by the way you have framed it. The discourse in the USA around this stuff is so broken we are talking about nurses who "believe in vaccines".

What are we doing here, guys?

Okay, fair enough. I'll forego the "believe" and adjust it.

What word is acceptable to keep the conversation moving forward?

"mandate", "will use", "require"

At this point the vaccine is what it is and if you don't think that nurses have quit because of the covid vaccine then what is this about?

I know several nurses in the IU health network who resigned due to vaccine mandates by the hospitals they work for. I wonder how much of the staff shortage is due to that?

Not an insignificant amount, I would guess.

Since when is the requirement of vaccines a big deal, especially for nurses who "believe in vaccines"?

I'm sure all of them took the required MMR vaccines and probably quite a few others along the way. I'm sure they even gave their kids those same vaccines to enroll them in school.

But sure I'll forego the use of the word "believe" and let's just change it to whatever you think is appropriate to describe the "not an insignificant amount" of nurses who have quit.

 

[EdwardElric]

I'm sure all of them took the required MMR vaccines and probably quite a few others along the way. I'm sure they even gave their kids those same vaccines to enroll them in school.

Keep going and think this through.

 

[BleedinGold]

Keep going and think this through.

I'll keep thinking but while I do that, explain the contradiction here. It might help with the thought process.

I know several nurses in the IU health network who resigned due to vaccine mandates by the hospitals they work for. I wonder how much of the staff shortage is due to that?

Not an insignificant amount, I would guess.

I can state, with almost unequivocal certainty, that if you think that nurses are quitting because they do not "believe in vaccines", you are wrong.

So the nurses are quitting because of vaccine mandates, but it's not because they don't "believe in vaccines" -- and it's not that they don't support vaccine mandates like MMR, smallpox, on-and-on-and-on. It's something else.

I'm interested to hear your explanation for what that is.

 

[BoilerBF]

So the nurses are quitting because of vaccine mandates, but it's not because they don't "believe in vaccines" -- and it's not that they don't support vaccine mandates like MMR, smallpox, on-and-on-and-on. It's something else.

I'm interested to hear your explanation for what that is. In the meantime I'll keep thinking.

Nurses are going to have different reasons for not wanting to take the vaccine now,

1) many have natural immunity from already have gotten covid.
2) many are young and planning on having children one day, they don't want to take an experimental use vaccine.
3) many have over a 99.9% of surviving Covid with their own immune system
4) some feel like they have earned the right to make their own choice, after working on the front lines for past 18 months.
5) some have immune issues, and possibly have been advised against the vaccines
6) many other potential reasons as well.

We really do a disservice to the debate, when we try to just lump them in as anti vaxxers.

 

[guidelinesa2]

As the owner of a profitable business, I will tell you that this is complete horseshit. No one talks about revenue generation and market share without looking at it through the lens of profitability. Well, no one who wants to run a successful business, anyway.

And as a CPA I'm telling you that you are talking about accounting and I am talking about economics.

 

[guidelinesa2]

You are confusing some basic economic terms and how companies actually operate.

From a pure theoretical perspective, in a free (capitalistic) market that has no government regulation or intervention, companies will compete for business which should drive both innovation and efficient pricing. This results in a net positive for consumers (better products and prices).

That does NOT mean low price wins for most every product or service being sold. Maybe for pure commodities like the paper clip, but nothing that really generates actual innovation.

Companies will pursue strategies that ultimately generate the most PROFIT. Generating revenue that doesn’t drive profit is useless and consumes capital. The only exception would be driving prices down to eliminate competition (but that generally considered to be anti-competitive business practice).

Apple is probably the most ‘capitalistic’ company in the world. They have developed incredibly efficient supply chains and are far from the lowest cost to the consumer. Android dominates the global smartphone market, but you add up Samsung and all the other companies making Android smartphones and they make a fraction of the profit that Apple does … which is why Apple has generated so much value.

And back to my original point. While the US healthcare system is not a true capitalistic market (there are many government regulations and restrictions) … it’s probably the closest thing to a capitalist market as exists in global healthcare.

I think you are the one that is confused. You think you are talking economics but you aren't.

There is no "free market" in healthcare, to suggest that we have a lassiez fare health care market is absurd.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

And as a CPA I'm telling you that you are talking about accounting and I am talking about economics.

Sorry, but most CPAs I know don't know the first ****ing thing about running an actual business. You've said some things that make no GD sense whatsoever, and I don't know many business owners who would agree that lowest price wins. For example, we could set our price even lower and steal more market share, but our business is pretty well optimized for size for where we are right now in terms of profitability. There are considerations on clientele you want - you don't want every single customer that walks through your door, and sometimes you price things accordingly. We bring in less revenue than one of our competitors, but generate more profit than they do. Who would you rather be?

So again, I'm sure you're very good with numbers, but running a business is about more than just numbers, revenue, market share and being the cheapest option out there. Profitability and workload management matter a hell of a lot more than pure revenue generation.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Nurses are going to have different reasons for not wanting to take the vaccine now,

1) many have natural immunity from already have gotten covid.
2) many are young and planning on having children one day, they don't want to take an experimental use vaccine.
3) many have over a 99.9% of surviving Covid with their own immune system
4) some feel like they have earned the right to make their own choice, after working on the front lines for past 18 months.
5) some have immune issues, and possibly have been advised against the vaccines
6) many other potential reasons as well.

We really do a disservice to the debate, when we try to just lump them in as anti vaxxers.

The only legitimate point here is #5. The rest are debunked nonsense. You’re the one doing the disservice by continuing to spout this crap out.

 

[guidelinesa2]

Sorry, but most CPAs I know don't know the first ****ing thing about running an actual business. You've said some things that make no GD sense whatsoever, and I don't know many business owners who would agree that lowest price wins. For example, we could set our price even lower and steal more market share, but our business is pretty well optimized for size for where we are right now in terms of profitability. We bring in less revenue than one of our competitors, but generate more profit than they do. Who would you rather be?

You are talking about accounting and I am talking about economic theory.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

You are talking about accounting and I am talking about economic theory.

Not really. I'm talking about executing business in practice and you're talking very vaguely about fuzzy microeconomic theory.

 

[TeddyValentineDidNothingWrong]

Imagine trying to treat healthcare as an elastic good or commodity.

waterheads

 

[BoilerBF]

The only legitimate point here is #5. The rest are debunked nonsense. You’re the one doing the disservice by continuing to spout this crap out.

Guessing you aren't a healthy 25 year old female nurse, with future plans for having a family. Many want to see more data on an experimental use vaccine.

They don't view the world exactly like you do.

 

[jrcrist]

The only legitimate point here is #5. The rest are debunked nonsense. You’re the one doing the disservice by continuing to spout this crap out.

Wrong………again

 

[BleedinGold]

Nurses are going to have different reasons for not wanting to take the vaccine now,

1) many have natural immunity from already have gotten covid.
2) many are young and planning on having children one day, they don't want to take an experimental use vaccine.
3) many have over a 99.9% of surviving Covid with their own immune system
4) some feel like they have earned the right to make their own choice, after working on the front lines for past 18 months.
5) some have immune issues, and possibly have been advised against the vaccines
6) many other potential reasons as well.

We really do a disservice to the debate, when we try to just lump them in as anti vaxxers.

I understand all of that, and for those nurses who feel that strongly I support their right to change their profession or find a situation/role that better fits their priorities.

However, I don't think I can say it any better than what was said in 2009 regarding vaccinations for healthcare workers..

"Certainly, health care workers have rights that must be respected.17 Mandated medical interventions, such as vaccination, should never be imposed capriciously; however, patient contact involves unavoidable risks and special obligations. Professionals who care for patients accept an overriding ethical imperative embodied in the Hippocratic Oath that new physicians take—first, do no harm. Unvaccinated workers who spread the flu can cause tremendous harm. This is especially true when vulnerable patients, such as those in intensive-care units, are involved.

Patients should have the right to expect that their hospital will take every reasonable precaution to protect them from developing a new disease that they did not have upon admission. With regard to the flu and many other contagious diseases, vaccination is the best way to honor this right. Although voluntary compliance by health care professionals would be preferable to mandates, its lack of effectiveness, at least so far, leaves hospitals and public health officials with little choice."

Source :: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2810172/

I get that nurses don't want to take the vaccine. And those that feel strongly about it, I support their right to quit.

My original point when I brought it up was for the voluntary unvaccinated individuals.

The nurses that think like them aren't going to be there to care for them.

They are only going to be left with the healthcare workers that they don't trust. The Drs, nurses, and other health care workers that told them the vaccine works, that there was a risk to not being vaccinated, etc.

I support an individual's right to not get vaccinated. I just ask that they stick to their guns and not use up the overstrained resources that are currently requiring the denial of care for standard care patients.

At some point, the hospital system can adjust to accommodate them, but right now it hasn't. And that's part of the risk factor that should be considered for those choosing to voluntarily not vaccinate. Take the risk, but then follow through. Stay home if you become symptomatic. Don't continue to use the overstrained resources by seeking care from the people that tried to help you by preventing your symptomatic infection to begin with.

 

[BoilerBF]

I understand all of that, and for those nurses who feel that strongly I support their right to change their profession or find a situation/role that better fits their priorities.

Fair enough. Just don't whine when there is a nursing shortage, and it takes longer to get care.

As usual we have leaders in this country incapable of looking at the big picture. Driving a bunch of nurses into a different profession, probably isn't going to be a decision that ages well.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Fair enough. Just don't whine when there is a nursing shortage, and it takes longer to get care.

As usual we have leaders in this country incapable of looking at the big picture. Driving a bunch of nurses into a different profession, probably isn't going to be a decision that ages well.

To be honest, we shouldn’t have doctors and nurses who don’t believe in science using science to do their jobs. The profession is ultimately better off without them.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Wrong………again

Did Pillow Mike tell you to say that?

 

[BoilerBF]

To be honest, we shouldn’t have doctors and nurses who don’t believe in science using science to do their jobs. The profession is ultimately better off without them.

The 2021 American Nursing Shortage: A Data Study

Data reveals a current nursing shortage crisis in the USA expected to last through 2030. Learn the strategies nurses can use to move through this challenge!

www.usa.edu

There was a projected nursing shortage prior to the pandemic. Now I see estimates of 30-40% of nurses that aren't vaccinated (but many have already had Covid). Your solution is well we are better off without them. Sounds good for a message board post, we will see how your solution plays out in the coming years.

 

[PurdueFan1]

The 2021 American Nursing Shortage: A Data Study

Data reveals a current nursing shortage crisis in the USA expected to last through 2030. Learn the strategies nurses can use to move through this challenge!

www.usa.edu

There was a projected nursing shortage prior to the pandemic. Now I see estimates of 30-40% of nurses that aren't vaccinated (but many have already had Covid). Your solution is well we are better off without them. Sounds good for a message board post, we will see how your solution plays out in the coming years.

Yeah we will. But I have zero qualms with stating that I don’t want someone treating me that doesn’t believe in science. As BleedIn has stated multiple times, that’s fine if they don’t want it. That’s their right. But they can find a different line of work because this isn’t the one for them.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Yeah we will. But I have zero qualms with stating that I don’t want someone treating me that doesn’t believe in science. As BleedIn has stated multiple times, that’s fine if they don’t want it. That’s their right. But they can find a different line of work because this isn’t the one for them.

Are you going to give healthcare workers a
“Litmus test” before you’ll accept treatment from them? LOL

 

[BleedinGold]

Fair enough. Just don't whine when there is a nursing shortage, and it takes longer to get care.

As usual we have leaders in this country incapable of looking at the big picture. Driving a bunch of nurses into a different profession, probably isn't going to be a decision that ages well.

The 2021 American Nursing Shortage: A Data Study

Data reveals a current nursing shortage crisis in the USA expected to last through 2030. Learn the strategies nurses can use to move through this challenge!

www.usa.edu

There was a projected nursing shortage prior to the pandemic. Now I see estimates of 30-40% of nurses that aren't vaccinated (but many have already had Covid). Your solution is well we are better off without them. Sounds good for a message board post, we will see how your solution plays out in the coming years.

I get this. But I don't see this as any different than when teachers started to be required to have continuing education to keep their license.

Some teachers balked at it. Why should they have to continue their education for teaching when they are actually teaching every school day.

And those teachers had the right to feel that way, and for those that felt strongly enough and walked away, they had that right too.

Indiana delt with a massive teacher shortage. It seems to have worked itself out and now teachers may not like it but each one of them knows what is expected of them to continue working in their profession.

Healthcare workers have had similar requirements before, and this one is just another new one that gets added to that list.

And yes it adds to the capacity problem. It's simply another risk factor that those who voluntarily choose to not vaccinate should consider.

Once the staff shortages and bed space in ICUs can be resolved then you can be accommodated with a symptomatic infection. Until then just realize that your voluntary choice should be respected, and you should respect the impact it is having on the hospitals and the remaining healthcare workers. The best way to do that is to stay home if you become infected. Don't seek care until the system is in a better situation to accommodate you. If that risk isn't acceptable there is a vaccine available to offset it.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Are you going to give healthcare workers a
“Litmus test” before you’ll accept treatment from them? LOL

I see your point past the smarm, and there’s of course an assumption that we all make when we put our health in someone else’s hands, but if this is a way to thin things out, that’s fine with me.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

I see your point past the smarm, and there’s of course an assumption that we all make when we put our health in someone else’s hands, but if this is a way to thin things out, that’s fine with me.

Rather keep the nurses and thin the broken brains out...

 

[PurdueFan1]

Rather keep the nurses and thin the broken brains out...

Well that’s the path you’re on so 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[purduepat1969]

To be honest, we shouldn’t have doctors and nurses who don’t believe in science using science to do their jobs. The profession is ultimately better off without them.

The fact that you don't recognize there are legitimate concerns with the long term consequences of a vaccine that was developed in record time with very little time to test shows that you have very little understanding of science yourself.

There are nurses who have given blood showing they have antibodies that are otherwise healthy and still being required to get a vaccine. There is absolutely ZERO need for this. I have relatives (husband and wife who are both nurses) who both had COVID and are now being required to take the vaccine as terms of their employment. They are both young (early 30s) and didn't want the shot due to unknown long term impacts. The husband is so dumb that he's in training to become a nurse/practitioner (yes, that is sarcasm).

I took the vaccine because I'm over 50 and have seen some folks my age, with and without complications, pass away. But if I were younger and had my entire life ahead of me, I would question the long term affects of the vaccine. BTW, I'm a believer in vaccines (polio, measles, etc) where longer term impact is more known.

So please stop with your ignorant judgement...