I need to vent.

[BleedinGold]

Was going to post this publicly on my Facebook page, but then figured I didn't want to start a shit storm there.

And since this place already is a shit storm -- I'm just going to copy/paste it here instead.

------

I'd like to thank all the unvaccinated Hoosiers out there who took the risk, got Covid, and are now clogging the ERs, hospital beds, and ICUs in central Indiana.

My grandmother has spent the last 15 hours sitting and waiting for a hospital bed (not Covid) in Hamilton County. Multiple hospitals were checked, all in similar situations. No bed available, but she was transferred somewhere where it was more likely a bed would open up... yea!

Of course, the health care workers were pleasant as they could be about the situation. They are understaffed, over-worked so they deserve a ton of slack.

So when is it appropriate to talk about the rationing of health care?

At what point are we allowed to tell the unvaccinated in the hospital that "Sorry, you need to vacate your hospital bed -- we'll be wheeling you outside in just a moment". I mean personal responsibility right? Personal freedom? Personal choice?

Don't take the vaccine. Don't wear a mask. I really don't care anymore. But get out of the hospital bed and be personally accountable for your choice. Stop going to the ER, stop going to the hospital.

You know the risk now. Live with it, and die with it if God so deems it necessary.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Was going to post this publicly on my Facebook page, but then figured I didn't want to start a shit storm there.

And since this place already is a shit storm -- I'm just going to copy/paste it here instead.

------

I'd like to thank all the unvaccinated Hoosiers out there who took the risk, got Covid, and are now clogging the ERs, hospital beds, and ICUs in central Indiana.

My grandmother has spent the last 15 hours sitting and waiting for a hospital bed (not Covid) in Hamilton County. Multiple hospitals were checked, all in similar situations. No bed available, but she was transferred somewhere where it was more likely a bed would open up... yea!

Of course, the health care workers were pleasant as they could be about the situation. They are understaffed, over-worked so they deserve a ton of slack.

So when is it appropriate to talk about the rationing of health care?

At what point are we allowed to tell the unvaccinated in the hospital that "Sorry, you need to vacate your hospital bed -- we'll be wheeling you outside in just a moment". I mean personal responsibility right? Personal freedom? Personal choice?

Don't take the vaccine. Don't wear a mask. I really don't care anymore. But get out of the hospital bed and be personally accountable for your choice. Stop going to the ER, stop going to the hospital.

You know the risk now. Live with it, and die with it if God so deems it necessary.

I’m right there with you on this. They don’t trust science until they want science to save them.

 

[Level 42]

 

[Riveting]

Was going to post this publicly on my Facebook page, but then figured I didn't want to start a shit storm there.

And since this place already is a shit storm -- I'm just going to copy/paste it here instead.

I commend you for your courage, BleedinHeart.

Here are some numbers from Robert Kaplan of Stanford that you may find enlightening.

Opinion | A False Narrative About ‘Misinformation’ and Covid Vaccines

The evidence suggests resistance is based largely on pre-existing attitudes, not bad information.

www.wsj.com

 

[BleedinGold]

I commend you for your courage, BleedinHeart.

Here are some numbers from Robert Kaplan of Stanford that you may find enlightening.

Opinion | A False Narrative About ‘Misinformation’ and Covid Vaccines

The evidence suggests resistance is based largely on pre-existing attitudes, not bad information.

www.wsj.com

I don't have a WSJ subscription, but I also couldn't give two shits why anyone is choosing to stay unvaccinated anymore.

Just stay unvaccinated and stay out of the hospital if you get Covid with symptoms. Roll the dice.

 

[jrcrist]

Was going to post this publicly on my Facebook page, but then figured I didn't want to start a shit storm there.

And since this place already is a shit storm -- I'm just going to copy/paste it here instead.

------

I'd like to thank all the unvaccinated Hoosiers out there who took the risk, got Covid, and are now clogging the ERs, hospital beds, and ICUs in central Indiana.

My grandmother has spent the last 15 hours sitting and waiting for a hospital bed (not Covid) in Hamilton County. Multiple hospitals were checked, all in similar situations. No bed available, but she was transferred somewhere where it was more likely a bed would open up... yea!

Of course, the health care workers were pleasant as they could be about the situation. They are understaffed, over-worked so they deserve a ton of slack.

So when is it appropriate to talk about the rationing of health care?

At what point are we allowed to tell the unvaccinated in the hospital that "Sorry, you need to vacate your hospital bed -- we'll be wheeling you outside in just a moment". I mean personal responsibility right? Personal freedom? Personal choice?

Don't take the vaccine. Don't wear a mask. I really don't care anymore. But get out of the hospital bed and be personally accountable for your choice. Stop going to the ER, stop going to the hospital.

You know the risk now. Live with it, and die with it if God so deems it necessary.

Here are the hospital bed availability numbers for Hamilton county and surrounding area as of last week. Of the 15 hospitals that track ICU bed availability, only 4 were above 80% capacity and several below 50%. Hope this helps.

 

[Riveting]

I don't have a WSJ subscription, but I also couldn't give two shits why anyone is choosing to stay unvaccinated anymore.

Just stay unvaccinated and stay out of the hospital if you get Covid with symptoms. Roll the dice.

Many of them are African Americans, so I suspect racism may underlie your rant.

I hope that is not the case, bh.

 

[BleedinGold]

Here are the hospital bed availability numbers for Hamilton county and surrounding area as of last week. Of the 15 hospitals that track ICU bed availability, only 4 were above 80% capacity and several below 50%. Hope this helps.

Nope. It doesn't.

Quite frankly I don't know if there is a room with an empty bed in it or not. There may even be some. We didn't ask. But just because there is some empty square footage with a bed doesn't mean there is a staff there to take care of it.

She's also currently 18th in line for a heart catheter at St Vincent's in Carmel.

So I could care less how much empty square footage is available in a building. I'd rather be confident knowing that when I or a loved one shows up to a hospital they will have the space, the resources, and the staff to be able to provide adequate and timely care.

So I'm pissed that there isn't. Not pissed at the staff and hospital obviously. Pissed at people that have used up so many resources that there is now an inadequate supply of them.

Time to ration them.

Don't get vaccinated. Don't get treated for Covid.

Simple.

Once resources recover, if you're lucky enough to still be alive, then we can let you know that you can be seen.

 

[jrcrist]

Nope. It doesn't.

Quite frankly I don't know if there is a room with an empty bed in it or not. There may even be some. We didn't ask. But just because there is some empty square footage with a bed doesn't mean there is a staff there to take care of it.

She's also currently 18th in line for a heart catheter at St Vincent's in Carmel.

So I could care less how much empty square footage is available in a building. I'd rather be confident knowing that when I or a loved one shows up to a hospital they will have the space, the resources, and the staff to be able to provide adequate and timely care.

So I'm pissed that there isn't. Not pissed at the staff and hospital obviously. Pissed at people that have used up so many resources that there is now an inadequate supply of them.

Time to ration them.

Don't get vaccinated. Don't get treated for Covid.

Simple.

Once resources recover, if you're lucky enough to still be alive, then we can let you know that you can be seen.

You’re welcome…….

I would also assume they wouldn’t count a bed as available if they didn’t have the staff to man it. But maybe that’s not accurate.

And since you wanted to be a jerkoff about it, if you look at the total # of ER visits for these facilities, 12% were Covid confirmed. 18,160 total ER visits, 2276 of them were “Covid confirmed”. I would assume some of those are vaccinated individuals as well. So are you going to wish death upon the other 88% or just the covid patients?

 

[guidelinesa2]

Was going to post this publicly on my Facebook page, but then figured I didn't want to start a shit storm there.

And since this place already is a shit storm -- I'm just going to copy/paste it here instead.

------

I'd like to thank all the unvaccinated Hoosiers out there who took the risk, got Covid, and are now clogging the ERs, hospital beds, and ICUs in central Indiana.

My grandmother has spent the last 15 hours sitting and waiting for a hospital bed (not Covid) in Hamilton County. Multiple hospitals were checked, all in similar situations. No bed available, but she was transferred somewhere where it was more likely a bed would open up... yea!

Of course, the health care workers were pleasant as they could be about the situation. They are understaffed, over-worked so they deserve a ton of slack.

So when is it appropriate to talk about the rationing of health care?

At what point are we allowed to tell the unvaccinated in the hospital that "Sorry, you need to vacate your hospital bed -- we'll be wheeling you outside in just a moment". I mean personal responsibility right? Personal freedom? Personal choice?

Don't take the vaccine. Don't wear a mask. I really don't care anymore. But get out of the hospital bed and be personally accountable for your choice. Stop going to the ER, stop going to the hospital.

You know the risk now. Live with it, and die with it if God so deems it necessary.

Welcome to socialized medicine, this is exactly why its a terrible idea. I don't think progs should receive healthcare, or anything assistance from the government ever. I have my reasons. See how this works?

 

[BleedinGold]

Welcome to socialized medicine, this is exactly why its a terrible idea. I don't think progs should receive healthcare, or anything assistance from the government ever. I have my reasons. See how this works?

Wait what? The over extension of capitalist medicine is an example of the failure of socialized medicine.

Nope don't see how you're making the relation.

 

[BleedinGold]

You’re welcome…….

I would also assume they wouldn’t count a bed as available if they didn’t have the staff to man it. But maybe that’s not accurate.

And since you wanted to be a jerkoff about it, if you look at the total # of ER visits for these facilities, 12% were Covid confirmed. 18,160 total ER visits, 2276 of them were “Covid confirmed”. I would assume some of those are vaccinated individuals as well. So are you going to wish death upon the other 88% or just the covid patients?

Well, you're assuming. The answer at St. Vincent's they don't, and they didn't have the necessary bed space capacity at Ascentian at Exit 210 either.

I'm going to ask that if you're unvaccinated and are diagnosed stay home regardless of future symptoms

Simple.

 

[EdwardElric]

Well, you're assuming. The answer at St. Vincent's they don't, and they didn't have the necessary bed space capacity at Ascentian at Exit 210 either.

I'm going to ask that if you're unvaccinated and are diagnosed stay home regardless of future symptoms

Simple.

I am sorry for your situation, but in no civilized society is this an acceptable solution.

Interestingly enough, one of my better friends from Purdue was a nurse in Hamilton County and quit about two months ago. She said a lot of co-workers were leaving as well, so it makes sense that they are understaffed.

It would be in the interest of the public if the hospitals were better run and managed, I'd say.

 

[guidelinesa2]

Wait what? The over extension of capitalist medicine is an example of the failure of socialized medicine.

Nope don't see how you're making the relation.

"Capitalist" medicine doesnt get overextended because it allows supply to expand to meet demand. Socialized medicine causes supply to ever shrink because it involves theft of private property and punishes hard work and economic freedom

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

"Capitalist" medicine doesnt get overextended because it allows supply to expand to meet demand. Socialized medicine causes supply to ever shrink because it involves theft of private property and punishes hard work and economic freedom

Actually no, a pure capitalistic system will run very close to full capacity to maximize margins. Very similar to rental car companies and airlines that sometime have to not honor reservations.

We have about as close to a pure capitalistic health care system in the US as possible.

 

[jrcrist]

I am sorry for your situation, but in no civilized society is this an acceptable solution.

Interestingly enough, one of my better friends from Purdue was a nurse in Hamilton County and quit about two months ago. She said a lot of co-workers were leaving as well, so it makes sense that they are understaffed.

It would be in the interest of the public if the hospitals were better run and managed, I'd say.

I know several nurses in the IU health network who resigned due to vaccine mandates by the hospitals they work for. I wonder how much of the staff shortage is due to that?

 

[BleedinGold]

I am sorry for your situation, but in no civilized society is this an acceptable solution.

Interestingly enough, one of my better friends from Purdue was a nurse in Hamilton County and quit about two months ago. She said a lot of co-workers were leaving as well, so it makes sense that they are understaffed.

It would be in the interest of the public if the hospitals were better run and managed, I'd say.

I agree.

A lot of nurses have quit. They are exhausted. Some literally risked and lost their lives during this pandemic, and then when a solution was presented people refused it.

 

[BleedinGold]

"Capitalist" medicine doesnt get overextended because it allows supply to expand to meet demand. Socialized medicine causes supply to ever shrink because it involves theft of private property and punishes hard work and economic freedom

Doctors and nurses aren't created on a printing press and in a factory.

Meeting supply takes years, maybe even a decade-plus when you're talking about Doctors, etc.

 

[BleedinGold]

I know several nurses in the IU health network who resigned due to vaccine mandates by the hospitals they work for. I wonder how much of the staff shortage is due to that?

That wouldn't surprise me. I would say it has an impact, but not sure how much.

 

[BleedinGold]

Quick update.

My Grandmother was finally admitted into Saint Vincents after 17 hours waiting for a bed.

11pm she was taken by ambulance to Ascension at Exit 210. At 2am transferred by ambulance to St Vincent in Carmel. 4pm assigned a bed/room.

Grateful she has a bed.

Pissed off it's at this point.

 

[BleedinGold]

Also after talking to a friend who works for IU Health I heard another major bottleneck is the cleaning/maintenance staff.

Major backlog in getting vacated rooms, operating rooms, etc cleaned, sanitized, and turned over.

Also confirmed shortage of medical staff across the board.

 

[DG Boiler]

Was going to post this publicly on my Facebook page, but then figured I didn't want to start a shit storm there.

And since this place already is a shit storm -- I'm just going to copy/paste it here instead.

------

I'd like to thank all the unvaccinated Hoosiers out there who took the risk, got Covid, and are now clogging the ERs, hospital beds, and ICUs in central Indiana.

My grandmother has spent the last 15 hours sitting and waiting for a hospital bed (not Covid) in Hamilton County. Multiple hospitals were checked, all in similar situations. No bed available, but she was transferred somewhere where it was more likely a bed would open up... yea!

Of course, the health care workers were pleasant as they could be about the situation. They are understaffed, over-worked so they deserve a ton of slack.

So when is it appropriate to talk about the rationing of health care?

At what point are we allowed to tell the unvaccinated in the hospital that "Sorry, you need to vacate your hospital bed -- we'll be wheeling you outside in just a moment". I mean personal responsibility right? Personal freedom? Personal choice?

Don't take the vaccine. Don't wear a mask. I really don't care anymore. But get out of the hospital bed and be personally accountable for your choice. Stop going to the ER, stop going to the hospital.

You know the risk now. Live with it, and die with it if God so deems it necessary.

I'm sorry to hear about the disaster being caused solely by ignorance. It's shameful and sad.

 

[EdwardElric]

I know several nurses in the IU health network who resigned due to vaccine mandates by the hospitals they work for. I wonder how much of the staff shortage is due to that?

Not an insignificant amount, I would guess.

 

[TheGunner]

Was going to post this publicly on my Facebook page, but then figured I didn't want to start a shit storm there.

And since this place already is a shit storm -- I'm just going to copy/paste it here instead.

------

I'd like to thank all the unvaccinated Hoosiers out there who took the risk, got Covid, and are now clogging the ERs, hospital beds, and ICUs in central Indiana.

My grandmother has spent the last 15 hours sitting and waiting for a hospital bed (not Covid) in Hamilton County. Multiple hospitals were checked, all in similar situations. No bed available, but she was transferred somewhere where it was more likely a bed would open up... yea!

Of course, the health care workers were pleasant as they could be about the situation. They are understaffed, over-worked so they deserve a ton of slack.

So when is it appropriate to talk about the rationing of health care?

At what point are we allowed to tell the unvaccinated in the hospital that "Sorry, you need to vacate your hospital bed -- we'll be wheeling you outside in just a moment". I mean personal responsibility right? Personal freedom? Personal choice?

Don't take the vaccine. Don't wear a mask. I really don't care anymore. But get out of the hospital bed and be personally accountable for your choice. Stop going to the ER, stop going to the hospital.

You know the risk now. Live with it, and die with it if God so deems it necessary.

I’m all for it.

But I am also all for telling people who aren’t working or looking for work (excluding those with disabilities and retired), that they are also cut off.

You either join society or suffer the consequences

 

[EdwardElric]

I agree.

A lot of nurses have quit. They are exhausted. Some literally risked and lost their lives during this pandemic, and then when a solution was presented people refused it.

Not everyone has the same solution and comes to the same conclusion. It would do well to remember that in one of the freest and most multicultural societies in the history of mankind.

 

[BleedinGold]

Not everyone has the same solution and comes to the same conclusion. It would do well to remember that in the freest and most multicultural society in the history of mankind.

We aren't the freest. But I'm too tired to go back through that now. But there is another thread where I pointed out the current rankings for freest countries along with lots of other categories.

It was later pointed out to me that we ranked #1 in GDP. So we got that going for us.

 

[EdwardElric]

We aren't the freest. But I'm too tired to go back through that now. But there is another thread where I pointed out the current rankings for freest countries along with lots of other categories.

It was later pointed out to me that we ranked #1 in GDP. So we got that going for us.

I will edit my post to *One of the freest, if that moves the conversation forward

 

[jrcrist]

I'm sorry to hear about the disaster being caused solely by ignorance. It's shameful and sad.

The most vaccine-hesitant group of all? PhDs

There has been much debate over how to get the unvaccinated to get their jabs — shame them, bribe them, persuade them, or treat them as victims of mis- and disinformation campaigns — but who, exactly, are these people? Most of the coverage would have you believe that the surge in cases is...

unherd.com

 

[guidelinesa2]

Actually no, a pure capitalistic system will run very close to full capacity to maximize margins. Very similar to rental car companies and airlines that sometime have to not honor reservations.

We have about as close to a pure capitalistic health care system in the US as possible.

As usually you are completely wrong. Pure capitalistic systems maximize revenue by expanding capacity. Monopolies limit capacity to maximize profit.

Rental car companies and airlines are monopolistic or oligarchic. There are few examples of actual free markets in this country.

 

[guidelinesa2]

Doctors and nurses aren't created on a printing press and in a factory.

Meeting supply takes years, maybe even a decade-plus when you're talking about Doctors, etc.

Lol - How idiotic can you get.

Try getting into med school and report back. The supply of doctors is highly constrained to ensure doctors are in demand.

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

As usually you are completely wrong. Pure capitalistic systems maximize revenue by expanding capacity. Monopolies limit capacity to maximize profit.

Rental car companies and airlines are monopolistic or oligarchic. There are few examples of actual free markets in this country.

You have no freaking clue how actual business operate. There is no value in having unused capacity and it eats away at profitability … which is the #1 goal of a capitalistic enterprise. Yes, you maximize capacity but only to the extent you can generate more revenue and profit from it.

 

[guidelinesa2]

You have no freaking clue how actual business operate. There is no value in having unused capacity and it eats away at profitability … which is the #1 goal of a capitalistic enterprise. Yes, you maximize capacity but only to the extent you can generate more revenue and profit from it.

Capacity is often built to meet peak demand. It is also built in anticipation of growth, consistent with a growing market or increased market share.

You can't just rent a trailer when you need another OR dude.

Its you who is clueless.

 

[charlespig]

Was going to post this publicly on my Facebook page, but then figured I didn't want to start a shit storm there.

And since this place already is a shit storm -- I'm just going to copy/paste it here instead.

------

I'd like to thank all the unvaccinated Hoosiers out there who took the risk, got Covid, and are now clogging the ERs, hospital beds, and ICUs in central Indiana.

My grandmother has spent the last 15 hours sitting and waiting for a hospital bed (not Covid) in Hamilton County. Multiple hospitals were checked, all in similar situations. No bed available, but she was transferred somewhere where it was more likely a bed would open up... yea!

Of course, the health care workers were pleasant as they could be about the situation. They are understaffed, over-worked so they deserve a ton of slack.

So when is it appropriate to talk about the rationing of health care?

At what point are we allowed to tell the unvaccinated in the hospital that "Sorry, you need to vacate your hospital bed -- we'll be wheeling you outside in just a moment". I mean personal responsibility right? Personal freedom? Personal choice?

Don't take the vaccine. Don't wear a mask. I really don't care anymore. But get out of the hospital bed and be personally accountable for your choice. Stop going to the ER, stop going to the hospital.

You know the risk now. Live with it, and die with it if God so deems it necessary.

Sorry to hear that. Wish your grandma well.

Yep, I think people who say "It's my personal freedom to take the vaccine or not" is overlooking how their choice is affecting others. Not taking the vaccine and then getting infected risks the virus having another chance to mutate to a more deadly variant. Also, not taking the vaccine and getting infected, and you are taking up valuable public resources in our fragile healthcare system. So unless you are ready to just lock yourself in your own room and not seek any medical help from the hospital, the "personal liberty" argument doesn't stand.

 

[charlespig]

Capacity is often built to meet peak demand. It is also built in anticipation of growth, consistent with a growing market or increased market share.

You can't just rent a trailer when you need another OR dude.

Its you who is clueless.

Covid cases can grow exponentially. There is no way a hospital can build "peak demand" ICU beds in advance to meet "peak demand."

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

Capacity is often built to meet peak demand. It is also built in anticipation of growth, consistent with a growing market or increased market share.

You can't just rent a trailer when you need another OR dude.

Its you who is clueless.

Ask @Tony79 who actually has worked and led health care systems. You don’t build capacity for peak demand … you optimize for maximum profitability. That’s why you run into situations like now with not enough capacity.

Building capacity for peak demand is a very bureaucratic and dare i say socialist approach (don’t care about efficiency .. you’re spending someone else’s money).. not a pure capitalistic approach.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Nope. It doesn't.

Quite frankly I don't know if there is a room with an empty bed in it or not. There may even be some. We didn't ask. But just because there is some empty square footage with a bed doesn't mean there is a staff there to take care of it.

She's also currently 18th in line for a heart catheter at St Vincent's in Carmel.

So I could care less how much empty square footage is available in a building. I'd rather be confident knowing that when I or a loved one shows up to a hospital they will have the space, the resources, and the staff to be able to provide adequate and timely care.

So I'm pissed that there isn't. Not pissed at the staff and hospital obviously. Pissed at people that have used up so many resources that there is now an inadequate supply of them.

Time to ration them.

Don't get vaccinated. Don't get treated for Covid.

Simple.

Once resources recover, if you're lucky enough to still be alive, then we can let you know that you can be seen.

oh so now you don't like socialized medicine? Does your libertarianism also extend to smokers, vapers, fatties, alcoholics, drug addicts, overdosers, criminals, illegals? Welcome to the pro-death dark side!!

 

[guidelinesa2]

Ask @Tony79 who actually has worked and led health care systems. You don’t build capacity for peak demand … you optimize for maximum profitability. That’s why you run into situations like now with not enough capacity.

Building capacity for peak demand is a very bureaucratic and dare i say socialist approach (don’t care about efficiency .. you’re spending someone else’s money).. not a pure capitalistic approach.

As I said, you are talking about the health care system which is not a free market system.

Basic economics says that in a free market system, the participants seek to maximize revenue and market share, not maximize profit, as profit is not guaranteed without market share. That why competition LOWERS prices. The lowest price wins, you dont get to low prices by maximizing profit.

 

[charlespig]

As I said, you are talking about the health care system which is not a free market system.

Healthcare is something that doesn't make sense to make it a free market.

ER is a losing business for hospitals. A profit-maximizing hospital would cut ER and just focus strictly on the high margin surgeries.

So a Hollywood star who is willing to pay a shit load for plastic surgery will be VIP to the hospital and will have priority over the child who is burned in a fire and need immediate care. Not sure that's the world I want to live in.

Basic economics says that in a free market system, the participants seek to maximize revenue and market share, not maximize profit, as profit is not guaranteed without market share. That why competition LOWERS prices. The lowest price wins, you dont get to low prices by maximizing profit.

Huh?!? That makes no sense. If the participants seek to maximize REVENUE and not PROFIT, then all you need to do is to sell a $100 bill for $90. Your revenue will be through the roof (up till however much you have in inventory), and you will dominate the market.

Sorry, I try to give you the benefit of doubt, but the more you speak the more you are exposing your ignorance.

 

[DG Boiler]

I’m all for it.

But I am also all for telling people who aren’t working or looking for work (excluding those with disabilities and retired), that they are also cut off.

You either join society or suffer the consequences

WTF? This isn't even tangentially related to the point of this thread.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Was going to post this publicly on my Facebook page, but then figured I didn't want to start a shit storm there.

And since this place already is a shit storm -- I'm just going to copy/paste it here instead.

------

I'd like to thank all the unvaccinated Hoosiers out there who took the risk, got Covid, and are now clogging the ERs, hospital beds, and ICUs in central Indiana.

My grandmother has spent the last 15 hours sitting and waiting for a hospital bed (not Covid) in Hamilton County. Multiple hospitals were checked, all in similar situations. No bed available, but she was transferred somewhere where it was more likely a bed would open up... yea!

Of course, the health care workers were pleasant as they could be about the situation. They are understaffed, over-worked so they deserve a ton of slack.

So when is it appropriate to talk about the rationing of health care?

At what point are we allowed to tell the unvaccinated in the hospital that "Sorry, you need to vacate your hospital bed -- we'll be wheeling you outside in just a moment". I mean personal responsibility right? Personal freedom? Personal choice?

Don't take the vaccine. Don't wear a mask. I really don't care anymore. But get out of the hospital bed and be personally accountable for your choice. Stop going to the ER, stop going to the hospital.

You know the risk now. Live with it, and die with it if God so deems it necessary.

"It's my decision and doesn't affect anyone else!!"

Such a load of bullshit. These stories are becoming common in outbreak areas. Louisiana hospital doctor made the same plea a couple of weeks ago saying they couldn't provide adequate care for the normal load of patients because of unvaccinated assholes.