DeSantis channels his inner Trump

[YouSayPotato]

The wrong side according to who? You? DeSantis?

"Even more notable is the breadth of that sentiment. Democratic voters in the poll support the law 55% to 29%. Among suburban voters, which could be a decisive group for the midterm elections, it’s 60% to 30%. Parents: 67% to 24%. Biden voters: 53% to 30%. Respondents who “know someone LGBTQ”: 61% to 28%. Those figures might come as a shock to Florida’s progressive activists, including those who happen to work at Walt Disney."

"No poll is dispositive, and the surveys aren’t unanimous. Ipsos asked Americans in mid-March if they agreed with barring “classroom lessons about sexual orientation or gender identity in elementary school.” It found 62% opposed."

 

[Droid12345]

So then you're saying discussions of religion is banned in school?

I'm not saying that.

School officials can't have any part in the discussion of religion, right?

School officials are not banned from discussing religion, they can even offer classes about it. Indiana has a Biblical literature course, for example. Music courses regularly perform sacred music from many different religions. Within these contexts, learning about religions can help us understand the human experience and religion's impact on culture. This is all fine from a legal standpoint. What's banned is forcing students to participate in religious activities, favoring one religion over another, enforcing the tenets of particular religions, etc. There is a difference between "teaching religion" and "teaching ABOUT religion."

But can have discussions on LGBT sexuality. See my point?

Again, LGBT issues are non-religious in nature -- they are a combination of science, health, and social interaction, all things we regularly teach in schools -- so I don't see how discussion of them is remotely the same thing. You might as well be saying "well, we can't talk about religion, but we can talk about chemistry. How does that make sense?"

 

[BuilderBob6]

You're the one who brought up the law being unconstitutional. So I ask the question. Why is it OK to talk about LGBT sexual matters in elementary school? But if I make a comment on how my coworkers hair looks nice, I'm sexually harassing someone at work? I'm not proposing we change anything in the workplace. But if we're going to prohibit sexual discussions in the workplace, why are we permitting them in school?

You keep going back to the new law......and somehow think that's wtf I'm talking about. I'm not. Get it? I'm talking about Ron's reactions to Disney's comment on the law. I don't think those discussions should be going on in elementary school and have said that.

I guess you just don't have a good argument for Ron's actions so you keep trying to make comparisons of the law to other situations.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Disney should have said nothing. Do they speak out on illegal immigration, flying the Stars and Bars, school busing, women registering for the draft, Critical Race Theory, fracking? Let's face it, Disney screwed the pooch.

Disney can say whatever the hell they want. DeSantis is the one who should have kept his mouth shut

 

[BoilerBiker]

And when you speak out, you risk losing something that's not a right of yours, like an exemption. An exemption is a privilege, not a right. As I already said, I don't like it. But if Disney would have kept their mouth shut, they wouldn't have lost a privilege...

My God, they are not trying to suppress free speech. The Disney woke remain as free as any Americans to run off at the mouth about any issue they please. They certainly did punish Disney for sticking their nose into the wrong side of an issue

other privileges like occupational licenses could be threatened also.
as long as people keep their mouth shut though, they dont need to worry about government punishment/losing those privileges.

 

[BuilderBob6]

"Even more notable is the breadth of that sentiment. Democratic voters in the poll support the law 55% to 29%. Among suburban voters, which could be a decisive group for the midterm elections, it’s 60% to 30%. Parents: 67% to 24%. Biden voters: 53% to 30%. Respondents who “know someone LGBTQ”: 61% to 28%. Those figures might come as a shock to Florida’s progressive activists, including those who happen to work at Walt Disney."

"No poll is dispositive, and the surveys aren’t unanimous. Ipsos asked Americans in mid-March if they agreed with barring “classroom lessons about sexual orientation or gender identity in elementary school.” It found 62% opposed."

I'll just keep reposting my point until you respond to it....... without editing out what you have no answer for.

"The only thing they did was take a public position on the issue. They gave the freaking right to say whatever the fck they want. It's America right? In this case "sticking their nose into" something is SIMPLY EXPRESSING YOUR OPINION."

And right and wrong is not based on public opinion you moron. Only politicians and fools like you think they are.

 

[YouSayPotato]

Disney can say whatever the hell they want. DeSantis is the one who should have kept his mouth shut

Both Disney and DeSantis can say whatever they want. This is America.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Both Disney and DeSantis can say whatever they want. This is America.

You’re directly contradicting yourself from a few posts ago. So which is it? Disney should shut up or no?

 

[Hausta01]

No. You just dislike people who don’t fit into your little white bread box. You wanting to call out and shame a segment of the population that already has a higher than average suicide rate is nothing more than piling on. And you do it because for some reason you enjoy it. If a 45% suicide rate actually bothered you, continuing to bash that group isn’t going to make the rate go down. This is basic humanity, of which you seem to have exactly none.

I'm not bashing any person. I'm bashing a culture that promotes and celebrates falsehoods and potential serious harm, Disney is a part of that culture.

That you can't distinguish between those two things is concerning, but also not surprising.

 

[Boilermaker03]

I didn't say you can't be Libertation. That's your distortion of my comment.

Here are passages from the link that I posted above:

"Libertarians believe that people should be able to travel freely as long as they are peaceful. We welcome immigrants who come seeking a better life."

"Libertarians do not support classifying undocumented immigrants as criminals."

The problem is that those two sentences are somewhat contradictory. You can't guarantee everyone coming is peaceful without some sort of verification process, IE you need borders.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Anecdotes, if they exist, are not data.

1. Heritage - LOL
2. The only science actually presented in the article basically boils down to "the current studies are inconclusive," which is pretty unremarkable given the youth of the field of study. And he's only talking about one possible treatment (gender reassignment surgery) and comparing the outcomes to the general public (ie. suicide rate being 20x the general population). Shouldn't we compare outcomes to people who identify as trans but who DON'T get surgery in order to determine its effectiveness? As I look around for research on that, it seems to point in the direction that gender affirming treatments (generally, not just surgery) help.

Suicide risk in the UK trans population and the role of gender transition in decreasing suicidal ideation and suicide attempt | Emerald Insight

1

www.emerald.com

Sex-reassignment surgery yields long-term mental health benefits, study finds

The longer ago a transgender person’s gender-affirming surgery, the less likely they are to suffer anxiety, depression or suicidal behavior, the study suggests.

www.nbcnews.com

Association Between Gender-Affirming Surgeries and Mental Health Outcomes

This study evaluates associations between gender-affirming surgeries and mental health outcomes, including psychological distress, substance use, and suicide risk.

jamanetwork.com

I'm pretty sure the study the article was citing covered all of those things. It was a very extensive study.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Why don't you stay on this point instead of other hypotheticals?

If DeSantis wants to take away Disney's exemption, that's fine. Do just what he did, go through the legislature, get it passed, no problem.

But he did in reaction to Disney's free expression of an opinion........they objected to the race and gender bill. He's said so himself. There was a clear and direct connection between Disney's objection and DeSantis punishing them. He wants them to shut up and not take a public position on the issue. Right? That's what he wants. How is that not attempting to suppress their right to free speech? Explain that to me.

Disney came out and said they were going to do EVERYTHING they can to get the law repealed. I think that's a lot more than just coming out and expressing an opinion about the bill...

 

[Boilermaker03]

You’re directly contradicting yourself from a few posts ago. So which is it? Disney should shut up or no?

No he isn't. Should and must are two different things.

 

[PurdueFan1]

I'm not bashing any person. I'm bashing a culture that promotes and celebrates falsehoods and potential serious harm, Disney is a part of that culture.

That you can't distinguish between those two things is concerning, but also not surprising.

Please oh please tell me how Disney is celebrating falsehoods and serious potential harm. I want specific examples. Because what you’re saying is that for as long as Disney has been around, they’ve been doing this. So, go on, Hausta. Do tell. With specifics. How did Ron DeSantis crack the Disney code when so many others couldn’t?

 

[YouSayPotato]

You’re directly contradicting yourself from a few posts ago. So which is it? Disney should shut up or no?

It appears that you're having a Nancyboy tantrum. One more time: Both DeSantis and Disney can say whatever they wish.

 

[PurdueFan1]

No he isn't. Should and must are two different things.

He absolutely did, but you do you, 03!

 

[PurdueFan1]

It appears that you're having a Nancyboy tantrum. One more time: Both DeSantis and Disney can say whatever they wish.

Ahh yes. I point out your hypocrisy but it’s me having the meltdown. A typical response from a hypocrite.

 

[YouSayPotato]

Ahh yes. I point out your hypocrisy but it’s me having the meltdown.

There is no hypocrisy. For the third time, both DeSantis and Disney can say whatever they wish.

 

[Boilermaker03]

He absolutely did, but you do you, 03!

What did he say that was contradictory?

 

[PurdueFan1]

There is no hypocrisy. For the third time, both DeSantis and Disney can say whatever they wish.

Yes there is because just a few posts prior you said Disney should have kept their mouth shut. You’re a hypocrite, etc and so on and so forth. Just move on to your next bit.

 

[Hausta01]

Please oh please tell me how Disney is celebrating falsehoods and serious potential harm. I want specific examples. Because what you’re saying is that for as long as Disney has been around, they’ve been doing this. So, go on, Hausta. Do tell. With specifics. How did Ron DeSantis crack the Disney code when so many others couldn’t?

No, I didn't say Disney has been doing this as long as they've been around, you did. So you want specific examples of something you said?

 

[PurdueFan1]

What did he say that was contradictory?

You mean where in one post he said Disney shouldn’t have said anything and then a few posts later he said they can say whatever they want? That contradiction?

 

[PurdueFan1]

No, I didn't say Disney has been doing this as long as they've been around, you did. So you want specific examples of something you said?

Oh no you don’t. You specifically said Disney was promoting a harmful culture etc. So I want specific examples. Come on, Hausta. At least try to come up with some more bullshit. It’s a new week. Go big or go home with the lies!

 

[Boilermaker03]

You mean where in one post he said Disney shouldn’t have said anything and then a few posts later he said they can say whatever they want? That contradiction?

I can't believe you can't see how this isn't contradictory.... Nevermind, I can totally see how you can't see this isn't contradictory. In his OPINION he thought they shouldn't have said anything. LEGALLY he said they can say whatever they want. Those two things are not contradictory.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Disney came out and said they were going to do EVERYTHING they can to get the law repealed. I think that's a lot more than just coming out and expressing an opinion about the bill...

Uh......ok. After it passed they did say that. What difference does that make? Does that change the fact that Ron is punishing Disney for their position on the law? You say it's fine because Disney said they would work to repeal it? You mean THAT part isn't allowed. Oh ok, that makes all the difference.

Not only is Disney not allowed to speak out against it, but they also can't work through the legal process to have it repealed.

 

[YouSayPotato]

Yes there is because just a few posts prior you said Disney should have kept their mouth shut. You’re a hypocrite, etc and so on and so forth. Just move on to your next bit.

Look, it is my OPINION that Disney should have stifled. At the same time Disney has the RIGHT to say whatever they want. Do you understand the difference?

 

[Boilermaker03]

Uh......ok. After it passed they did say that. What difference does that make? Does that change the fact that Ron is punishing Disney for their position on the law? You say it's fine because Disney said they would work to repeal it? You mean THAT part isn't allowed. Oh ok, that makes all the difference.

Not only is Disney not allowed to speak out against it, but they also can't work through the legal process to have it repealed.

So let me get this straight. You think it's unfair that a company that has the power and influence that Disney has, speaks out about a bill that the vast majority of the state supports, gets their special privileges revoked, thus making them just like every other company in the state? It's unfair to Disney that they have to act just like everyone else now? Cry me a river. It's not like they were illegally sanctioned.

Disney is 100% in the wrong here. Wouldn't surprise me that none of them even read the bill and was just going off of the outrage mob, that also didn't read the bill. It's not the schools place to guide little children on their sexuality journey at the ripe age of 9 anyway.

The problem with government and teachers (IE: non family members) telling young kids stuff is that when they are wrong, there's no consequences for them.

We've seen the influence large corporations have had on politics lately with the likes of Twitter and Facebook blocking stories about Biden that would have prevented him from being elected. You can bet your ass Desantis is aware of that and isn't going to let a misinformed corporation have a negative effect on the state. The vast majority of the parents support the bill. That should be the end of it. It's a local government thing and they did it right.

 

[purduepat1969]

What specifically do you oppose about the law? And how does the law, which specifies not talking about LGBT matters in schools "harass" members of the LGBT community, as you stated in another post here? Nobody is taking away your freedom to be a member of the LGBT community. Nobody is harassing you based on this law. Literally, no one is speaking about it. Why is that a problem?

@PurdueFan1 still skirting the question? It's all outrage until you have to answer the specifics of why...

 

[Droid12345]

I'm pretty sure the study the article was citing covered all of those things. It was a very extensive study.

You might be “pretty sure,” but I read it, and they only compared their numbers to cisgender people. That can’t possibly tell us anything about whether the surgery improves mental health. It’d be like studying a drug and using people who weren’t sick as your control group (note that I’m not saying transgender people are “sick,” it’s just an analogy). As usual with you, though, you’ve found one study you think supports you and stopped there. What about the three I presented that say otherwise? Did you look at those?

I’m fine with the idea that there’s still much to learn in this area and that reassignment surgery might not be the right treatment for everyone, but the science sure seems to point to the conclusion that, for those that decide to get it, it is generally a positive thing.

 

[Boilermaker03]

You might be “pretty sure,” but I read it, and they only compared their numbers to cisgender people. That can’t possibly tell us anything about whether the surgery improves mental health. It’d be like studying a drug and using people who weren’t sick as your control group (note that I’m not saying transgender people are “sick,” it’s just an analogy). As usual with you, though, you’ve found one study you think supports you and stopped there. What about the three I presented that say otherwise? Did you look at those?

I’m fine with the idea that there’s still much to learn in this area and that reassignment surgery might not be the right treatment for everyone, but the science sure seems to point to the conclusion that, for those that decide to get it, it is generally a positive thing.

Short term maybe. The study I linked was much longer term. From what I've read, long term is the issue and after confirmation surgery, the feel good generally doesn't last.

Transgenderism is a sickness. It's a mental illness just as age delusion is and people that believe they are animals.

 

[Droid12345]

Short term maybe. The study I linked was much longer term. From what I've read, long term is the issue and after confirmation surgery, the feel good generally doesn't last.

Well, at least now I know you didn't bother to look at the studies I provided.

Transgenderism is a sickness. It's a mental illness just as age delusion is and people that believe they are animals.

Not according to the current best understanding of it within the medical and mental health communities.

 

[PurdueFan1]

@PurdueFan1 still skirting the question? It's all outrage until you have to answer the specifics of why...

I question why it was even necessary. That’s what. The entire law is unnecessary.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Short term maybe. The study I linked was much longer term. From what I've read, long term is the issue and after confirmation surgery, the feel good generally doesn't last.

Transgenderism is a sickness. It's a mental illness just as age delusion is and people that believe they are animals.

Wtf is age delusion? Also, you’re the reason suicide rates are as high as they are. A true monster.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Well, at least now I know you didn't bother to look at the studies I provided.

Actually I did look. The only one that listed a timeline that I found said it was over a 10 year period. The study I linked showed that generally the first 10 years people improved, but after that it fell off again.

Not according to the current best understanding of it within the medical and mental health communities.

Yeah, I don't buy that for one second. It's been considered a mental disorder forever until recently. Considering how the crazies on the left do things, this doesn't surprise me at all. See, that's been the trend over time. We used to have centers to help people with mental health. We decided to close them all down and now all of those people are living on the streets.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Wtf is age delusion? Also, you’re the reason suicide rates are as high as they are. A true monster.

Age delusion is where people believe they are an age other than what they really are. It's a real disorder.

How am I a monster? What did I do? I've never ridiculed anyone with gender dysphoria and I'm generally very accepting of different people. My wife and I have wanted to attend the pride parade.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Look, it is my OPINION that Disney should have stifled. At the same time Disney has the RIGHT to say whatever they want. Do you understand the difference?

You’re a hypocrite. You’ve made that clear. Like I said, move on to the next faux woke crisis in your mind.

 

[Boilermaker03]

You’re a hypocrite. You’ve made that clear. Like I said, move on to the next faux woke crisis in your mind.

How am I a hypocrite? Be specific.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Age delusion is where people believe they are an age other than what they really are. It's a real disorder.

How am I a monster? What did I do? I've never ridiculed anyone with gender dysphoria and I'm generally very accepting of different people.

You just called transgerism a sickness. It’s not. But you would be the first to run up to a trans person and scream into their face that they’re a sick individual with mental issues. The line from what you say to what they hear and suicide rates is a straight line. Don’t ever forget that.

 

[PurdueFan1]

How am I a hypocrite? Be specific.

I wasn’t talking to you, 03.

 

[BuilderBob6]

So let me get this straight. You think it's unfair that a company that has the power and influence that Disney has, speaks out about a bill that the vast majority of the state supports, gets their special privileges revoked, thus making them just like every other company in the state? It's unfair to Disney that they have to act just like everyone else now? Cry me a river. It's not like they were illegally sanctioned.

Disney is 100% in the wrong here. Wouldn't surprise me that none of them even read the bill and was just going off of the outrage mob, that also didn't read the bill. It's not the schools place to guide little children on their sexuality journey at the ripe age of 9 anyway.

The problem with government and teachers (IE: non family members) telling young kids stuff is that when they are wrong, there's no consequences for them.

We've seen the influence large corporations have had on politics lately with the likes of Twitter and Facebook blocking stories about Biden that would have prevented him from being elected. You can bet your ass Desantis is aware of that and isn't going to let a misinformed corporation have a negative effect on the state. The vast majority of the parents support the bill. That should be the end of it. It's a local government thing and they did it right.

Not unfair. Unconstitutional.

The power and influence of Disney is irrelevant to the issue of free speech. But since you bring it up, the state having the power to punish a business for......what, did they break an law?...........speaking out against legislation doesn't bother you Mr. Libertarian?

The constitution doesn't recognize public opinion as a reason to stifle free speech.......and the issue is not whether the bill is popular. AGAIN, I'm not talking about what the law says.

It has nothing to do with whether it's fair for Disney vs other corporations. It has nothing to do with their special privileges. The act of taking away those privileges was in retaliation for their objecting to a law passed by the state. It's the only reason.

You can dress this up with all the extraneous points you like. It doesn't change the fact that the state over reached their power here. Under normal circumstances you would probably object to it. But this has all the pub hot buttons written all over it. You love Ron......cause he's a much smarter trump. You love the cultural issues like wokeism and CRT and LGBTQ. You love your leader acting like a tough guy. You love owning the libs. A strange anti corporate attitude that seems to be infecting the republican party.

It's just like everything trump. When you supporters get the policies you want, you don't GAF how you got there. You don't care what rules or norms had to be broken, all the matters is the results.

All the goodies you get in this story completely blinds you to the two problems. When you say "You can bet your ass Desantis is aware of that and isn't going to let a misinformed corporation have a negative effect on the state." sounds pretty socialist to me. The State is right, the corporation is wrong, and the state isn't going to let them have a "negative effect". The second is more obvious. Ron will not allow criticism. Free expression is punished. Very Trumpian.