"It's been considered a mental disorder forever until recently."
Please tell me you're not actually using this as some kind of justification for your position or as proof you are correct. My god.
DeSantis channels his inner Trump
- Thread starter BuilderBob6
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Please tell me you're not actually using this as some kind of justification for your position or as proof you are correct. My god.
You don't know shit about me that's clear. If I saw a transgender person I would be respectful of them. Just because I express my beliefs here doesn't mean I'm going to shove my beliefs in someone's face on the street. That's what Progressives do.
Transgenderism IS a mental illness. It's been classified as one FOREVER. Just because progressives decided they want to remove it from that classification doesn't make it any less of a mental illness. A lot of transgender people will tell you it's a mental illness. You cannot treat the disorder with gender reassignment alone. It requires psychological treatment.
I know what the moronic argument is going to be (omg Charlie Kirk!) but I don't want you to listen to him. I want you to listen to the transgender person he's talking to.
I said what I said about you, 03. You’re a big part of why certain people feel so marginalized and worthless. Also, fukk Charlie Kirk too.
Then you didn't look carefully, because one of them very clearly goes beyond 10 years. The others have a larger sample size than yours. And your study doesn't show that because it can't. It doesn't compare people who had surgery to people who didn't have surgery. It compares people who had surgery to people who aren't transgender. It's not a particularly useful study. Aside from that, your study doesn't recommend ending gender reassignment surgery, it says that the surgery alone may not be adequate treatment.
That said, even if it were true that the benefits waned over time, those individuals could still be better off than they would have been if they hadn't had the surgery. That's what your study can't tell us.
Yes, because, as we all know, the scientific understanding of things never changes. "Female hysteria" was considered a mental health condition until it wasn't. Why does it matter that it's only been in the last few years that doctors and scientists have realized they may have been wrong about this? You're just engaged in denial of science you don't like. "The left" didn't change the scientific understanding, better science did.
Are you really saying that transgender people should be locked in state psychiatric hospitals?
How is it Unconstitutional to revoke special privileges? If they sanctioned them, then I'd be on board, but that's not what happened and you guys are acting like that's what happened.
I never said they can't speak out. I just said that what you guys are bitching about isn't unconstitutional like you claim. Disney's rights haven't been stripped in any way.
Their speech isn't being stifled. They are free to continue to say whatever dumbass thing they want to say.
Even if that's the case, removing special privileges is completely different than sanctioning someone.
What? He didn't overreach his power. Good god man. Get a grip. You're just flat out wrong here. If he did something illegal then Disney would sue and win. Until that happens, you're wrong. Period.
I don't know what you're trying to say by "you love the cultural issues like wokeism and CRT and LGBTQ". I have several gay friends. CRT (or whatever you want to call it) is teaching racism. Yes, I am opposed to teaching racism. Wokeism is a cancer. Just look at just about every company that has gone "woke". The phrase "get woke go broke" doesn't exist for no reason. It's generally not a popular position.
BULLSHIT. You have zero proof for this either. It's you guys that don't like how things go so you manufacture issues just like in Florida. Desantis didn't do anything wrong, but you'll never see that because you disagree with the issue. Most likely because you're misinformed.
OMFG. You're a moron. Socialist? LMFAO!!!! Nobody is preventing free expression. Please show me where Disney's or anybody else's rights have been stripped. Oh that's right, YOU CAN'T. Corporations like Twitter and Facebook have been stifling voices left and right. Where is your outrage about that? I thought we were supposed to have free speech. You don't GAF about that because you don't like what those people had to say, so you allow that speech to be stifled.
I'm not the blind one here. You literally got everything wrong. Very TDS of you.
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Bull fukking shit. You're just falling back to this bullshit because you don't have an argument to stand on.
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Ok fine. They didn't compare to those that didn't. It still shows that even IF you undergo a transition, you're still 20 times more likely to commit suicide than a typical male or female. That's still a massive issue.
Based on their numbers the effect if at all isn't much.
Yes, I forgot. Mentally healthy people commit suicide at massive rates all the time.
That isn't what I was saying at all. WTF... The conclusions you people draw are just bizarre...
As I said, don't listen to Kirk. The transgendered person in the video was literally the first person to ever transition in California. I think that person is worth listening to, but I know that you're too much of a pussy to do so because of your blind hatred of Kirk.
@Droid12345 Did a little digging as to why Gender Identity Disorder (GID) was removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). It literally comes down to political pressures from some of the transgender community. They believe that having that stigma is more harmful, while clinicians state that having it off of the DSM will do more harm than good because it will restrict many from getting medical help.
So in other words, it has little to do with a "better understanding" of the disorder and more to do with political pressure.
So in other words, it has little to do with a "better understanding" of the disorder and more to do with political pressure.
Agreed. So maybe some research to figure out why is in order, rather than just saying "it's because they're trans."
Their numbers don't tell us much of anything. I was speaking hypothetically. I don't know if that data exists yet.
No one is saying that being trans can't CAUSE mental health problems. There's definitely a correlation. See if you can think of any reasons why that may be in a world where there's a whole bunch of people calling them delusional, abnormal, etc. One of my earlier links might be helpful here.
Then why did you bring it up? You're here saying "trans people are mentally sick" and "we used to have a place for people who are mentally sick." Where else am I supposed to go with that?
Would like to see a source here. But gender dysphoria is still in there, which is the actual mental health condition. And it's not like it's just in the US where this change has happened.
Edit: I think I found what you may have seen. In the same article, the author says:
"So here is a proposed solution that I think should be seriously considered:
Remove “GID” from the DSM as a “mental disorder.” But add in the DSM transgender feelings as a known possible cause of depression, anxiety, sexual dysfunction, and so forth."
That's essentially what they did by adding gender dysphoria. So, there's still a path for those who are indeed suffering from a mental health issue (gender dysphoria) to get help.
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I’m not trying to argue with you on this, 03. You’re just not a good person. 🤷🏻♂️
All kinds of groups have been marginalized, brutalized etc much worse than the transgender community and have come nowhere near the suicide rates.
To show how the trend is moving with the left. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I found that most of the reason for the removal of GID from the DSM is because of political pressure and not because of a diagnosis change.
Yes, because you can really know what someone is like from a message board... Good grief.
You’ve shown who you are time and again, 03. This wasn’t some kind of leap on my part.
"Medicalization is, after all, a complex experience. Even while being labeled as "mentally disordered" can be a stigmatizing experience, it is also the case that the inclusion of GID in the DSM has functioned to provide financial and institutional support for medical, surgical, and psychological care for some transgender people.
This is not true in most of the United States, but is true in more progressive places around the world, like Canada and the Netherlands. Having GID in the DSM may also, to some extent, legitimize the transgender experience as a "real" one for people who think a transgender person should just "get over" the feeling that the gender label assigned to them was the wrong one.
This is why, when I talk to clinicians about taking GID out of the DSM, the first thing they say to me is that taking it out will harm a good number of transgender people. Some foreign clinicians add that it is the individualistic and selfish American transgender activists who are forcing their identity politics on transfolk all over the world. Having GID in the DSM has, they claim, helped many of their patients and clients, particularly transgender youth who benefit from medically supervised reassignments during their puberties."
You think I'm a monster and a piece of shit because I don't think like you. I'm quite the opposite though.Yes, I did indeed find the same article, which later advocates for doing exactly what they did with the DSM, creating the diagnosis of gender dysphoria. So this fear that transgender people wouldn't be able to get treatment because there was no longer a diagnosis available turned out to be unfounded.
It's also a bit funny that the reason these "foreign clinicians" gave for not wanting GID removed was because GID allowed them to help "many of their patients and clients, particularly transgender youth who benefit from medically supervised reassignments." They were worried they wouldn't be able to provide reassignment treatment. Since you don't think reassignment works, seems like you should disagree with these folks, not agree with them. And just because they said the change was only political doesn't mean it actually was, what's presented in your quote is their opinion.
That article (an opinion piece, by the way), was also published in 2009, 4 years before GID was actually removed. And, more importantly, it does not advocate for continuing to consider being trans to be a mental illness. It actually advocates the exact opposite.
You really are the master cherry-picker.
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Ahh yes, quite the opposite. I can see why you’d feel that way as you double down on your terrible takes and hoist other notable great humans like Dinesh D’Souza and Charlie Kirk up as bastions of humanity.
No need to get all huffy about it, 03. Some people just can’t help being terrible. You just happen to be one of them. Nighty night.
No, I never said I didn't think reassignment didn't work. I said it doesn't work on it's own. They still require mental health treatments.
I also never said that article advocated for the continuing trans to be a mental illness. What I did was mention the part where the clinicians said it was "selfish Americans" pushing their political agenda on the rest of the trans world.
So I cherry pick because I don't take the word of the opinion piece and I take the word from clinicians? Wouldn't that be me taking the professionals word on it vs the non professional?
Again, you classify me as terrible simply because I have a differing opinion. I've never hoisted anybody. Hearing what someone has to say isn't putting them on a platform. I listen to a lot of different people. Not sure why you're so hard up on Charlie Kirk, but I was playing his video because of the trans person, not him. I know for a fact that you didn't listen to the video and what the trans person had to say, so that's on you that you don't want to learn from a viable trans perspective.
I find it hilarious though that you chose to call me a monster in a thread that is talking about simply not talking about sexual issues to kids before they are 10. Yeah... I'm the monster here.
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Well, no one has said that it does. Sometimes it's not even the recommended treatment. For some trans people, it's fine to transition socially only and not physically. Different people have different needs.
Which is merely their opinion, and one based on a fear that they would not be able to treat their patients.
But the professionals were not in conflict with the opinion of the article. They were worried they wouldn't be able to provide treatment if GID was removed. That fear turned out to be unfounded, as gender dysphoria was added. So, you cherry-picked a statement that was basically, "some people are worried that if x happens, it will have y consequence," even though y consequence didn't come to pass.
Anyway, I've said my peace. I'm out.
I agree
I'm sure there's some truth to that, but you don't make a statement like "selfish Americans pushing thier agenda on the worlds trans community" lightly. They obviously thought it was incorrect.
As I said above. They don't make statements like they did if they didn't believe it was the wrong thing to do.
Boilermaker03 is the reason suicide rates are high? You really are one mentally sick person.
Like lying about what I said to try and make a point you can't make without misrepresenting the other person?
This thread started because of what Disney is doing, is that not enough of an example? Or are you just too dense for reading comprehension? Disney will no longer say "Boys and Girls" at their parks because you know, there may be something other than a boy and a girl...
Exactly. I'm advocating for them to get the help that they need. I want them to be cared for properly and reduce suicide rates. @PurdueFan1 sees that as if I'm belittling them, thus causing them to commit suicide. The mental leap there is astounding.
I work for a company that has gone pretty woke as far as I'm concerned. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but I can't speak out against it because there could be repercussions for me financially and careerwise.
As said before, companies like Disney need to take a very neutral position on hot button political/social issues like this. There's no sense in taking a side. (and I say this as a Disney shareholder).
You haven't given any argument to the law other than "it wasn't necessary". So people who do think it's necessary are "not a good person".
Again, I'll make the argument that this law does nothing to discriminate against LGBT people. It only prohibits discussion of LGBT matters in elementary schools. If you're an LGBT person, this does nothing to prevent you from being a part of society. It doesn't jail. It doesn't take away any of your freedoms. Quite frankly, more freedoms have been taken away with regards to religious rights in schools than LGBT rights.
My nieces mother in law is very good friends with Bob Chapek. They converse almost weekly as being former high school friends. I see her every other week and always tell her he should be fired. I sold Disney due to his poor leadership.
It is more that just 'objecting', Bob. Disney stated it is entering the political process in Florida by saying its “goal as a company is for this law to be repealed by the legislature or struck down in the courts.”
If Disney, one of the most powerful media companies in the world, wants to get involved in state politics in Florida, then fine for Disney - but don't come whining when the people who are actually elected to write and pass laws push back against a pampered corporate behemoth. Politics is a two-way street.
I am still waiting for Disney, in all its self-righteousness, to issue a statement saying its goal as a company is to oppose genocide in China at risk of its vast business dealings with the fascist CCP. Are you waiting for that too, Bob?
Well, I sat in the seat yesterday. And...it went vroom vroom. And folks told me what a great car it is. Want to wax it for me?
It's easy. Bob's sex education talk with his children:
Mama Bobette....
"Bobby, Honey, it's time you had "that" talk with the kids."
'Kids, it's that time ol' Pop tells you about the birds and bees". All you need to know is the birds will shit on you and the bees will sting you."
"Now go watch the Disney Channel and if you have any more questions, ask your mama."
GD. I knew you were gonna do this. Just knew it. Talk about everything but the real issue.
Gonna put this in bold print in the hope you actually read and comprehend it. It's not the revocation of the privileges that's the the issue or that is unconstitutional. He could have revoked the exemption in 2019, 2020, or in 2021...........for any reason he wanted. He didn't even need a reason. Neither would have all the other governors going back 50 freakin years. But when he did it IN REACTION TO Disney's public stance, he was punishing Disney for speaking out against the bill. You need a slide rule here. DeSantis SAID as much.
You think someone's right to free speech under the first amendment means it has to be stripped? Taken away?
Yes, Disney and any business in Florida is free to say whatever they want. But now, there has been a clear warning sent to all of them. If you speak out against DeSantis, he may seek retribution.......under the law or his interpretation of it of course. But he can make your business much more difficult. Are these businesses MORE or LESS LIKELY to speak out in the future? You're good with that? You're good with anyone being afraid to criticize the state for fear of what might happen to them? Just because the act of taking the way the exemption isn't ILLEGAL doesn't mean the reasons for doing are the way a republic should operate. It's just trump shit on a smarter level. Like you guys ALWAYS say......well it's not illegal.
What I mean about wokeism is that the issues that define it are important to you.
Who manufactured the issue in Florida? Where are they teaching 5 year olds about transitioning? Who manufactured the idea that schools are teaching CRT? All hard right politicians who KNOW how to push your buttons. Take a look at the threads on this site from you guys. How many are about social and cultural issues?
Disney's rights haven't been stripped. But now they know, as do all businesses in Florida, that they better go along with what Ron wants or there will be consequences. Just as all of you are saying, and you see nothing wrong with the state taking that position. Cause you like tough guys who stand up to the evil corporations and the media......as long as they are pushing your agenda and screaming about the issues you are told to care about.
