Waddell offered

[TwinDegrees2]

If hitting is all about seeing the ball, why can't major league all-stars even get a bat on a softball pitched by a top women's softball pitcher? The softball is larger and moving slower.

Baseball Players See the Ball As Way Bigger Than You Do

Because, the research says, nobody perceives the same reality — or fastball.

www.thecut.com

Look at the pic of Baez in your article. His form is exactly where everything needs to be. Eyes to the ball hitting the bat, belt buckle to the ball.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Again, you're talking about a Top 10 all-time player. That's like saying "Well, Michael Jordan........."
Magic and Bird are outliers.
Plus, I think the game has changed quite a bit since they played 40 years ago. The NBA (right or wrong) is much more of a 1 on 1 game where you have 6'11 guys shooting 3s, handling the ball, and where athleticism and the ability to score is much more valued above all else.
My issue with the term "Basketball IQ" implies that a player can overcome a lack of athleticism or skill ( and it's almost always applied to white players for some reason) by outsmarting the opponent. This simply isn't the case. Sure, there's players who are very good at anticipating, seeing angles, knowing where the ball needs to go, etc. But I think that's just part of what separates avg from above avg players. But, without the skill and athleticism to compete at a P5 level, no level of Bball IQ (or whatever we want to call it) is going to make up for it.

So basketball IQ did exist in Magic and Bird?

 

[bonefish1]

So basketball IQ did exist in Magic and Bird?

Like I said, basketball "IQ" is a misnomer. It implies some level of higher understanding (sounds pretty elitist to me...).
Do some guys have better passing skills? Yes.
Do some guys see the floor or have better anticipation? Yes.
Do some guys know what the defense is trying to do and are able to counter that? Yes.
You can call that what you want, I just call it being a good ball player.
But, Bball IQ is not going to magically make a MAC level player a P5 player.

Who do you think has the highest Bball IQ on the current roster?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

But, Bball IQ is not going to magically make a MAC level player a P5 player.

So it does exist?

 

[bonefish1]

So it does exist?

No.

 

[BBG]

Like I said, basketball "IQ" is a misnomer. It implies some level of higher understanding (sounds pretty elitist to me...).
Do some guys have better passing skills? Yes.
Do some guys see the floor or have better anticipation? Yes.
Do some guys know what the defense is trying to do and are able to counter that? Yes.
You can call that what you want, I just call it being a good ball player.
But, Bball IQ is not going to magically make a MAC level player a P5 player.

Who do you think has the highest Bball IQ on the current roster?

Here you go lenny, this will put it to rest for you:

Link 1 - Pay attention to: "Generally speaking, basketball IQ refers to the ability to just instinctively play the game and adapt to any situation that comes up. Knowing how to put the right play into motion at the right time is a skill that many players don’t instinctively possess"

And then also pay attention to the steps on how to improve it.

Then once you are done reading, come back to this thread and just admit you were wrong (again) WITHOUT MOVING THE GOALPOSTS (AGAIN) and everyone can move on.

That was found just doing a simple google search, which is something you could of done as well in a few seconds.

 

[BBG]

No.

Yes, it does and you're the only one probably on the planet that thinks it doesn't. Google it, read the link in my other post then stop being such an obtuse tool.

 

[Purdue80]

Larry Bird had extremely high basketball IQ. Not a physical specimen. Not an elite athlete. Just a crazy smart basketball player who could pass, handle the ball, and hit shots from anywhere on the court. You really can't argue that.

And had an unsurpassed work ethic!

 

[New Pal Boiler]

No.

Then why would you say it can’t turn a MAC player into a P5 player if it doesn’t exist?

 

[purduepat1969]

Like I said, basketball "IQ" is a misnomer. It implies some level of higher understanding (sounds pretty elitist to me...).
Do some guys have better passing skills? Yes.
Do some guys see the floor or have better anticipation? Yes.
Do some guys know what the defense is trying to do and are able to counter that? Yes.
You can call that what you want, I just call it being a good ball player.
But, Bball IQ is not going to magically make a MAC level player a P5 player.

Who do you think has the highest Bball IQ on the current roster?

Ah, so what we refer to as Bball IQ is what you refer to as all those things you've listed?

As far as who has the highest Bball IQ on the current roster, I would say it's probably Gillis. He brings all of the intangibles. I would also say Trevion has a high Bball IQ most of the time. He knows how to obtain position down low, how to counter the defender, and also puts himself in a position to be a highly effective rebounder. He also makes some stupid mistakes with regard to fouling, but he's really worked to keep that under control this past year. I think big men sometimes don't get enough credit for how smart they play. It takes a lot of smarts to understand how to make a move on another big, especially when they're taller/bigger. Drew Timme comes to mind here as well...

 

[bonefish1]

Then why would you say it can’t turn a MAC player into a P5 player if it doesn’t exist?

Because the only thing that's going to turn a MAC player into a P5 player is being able to run faster, jump higher, and shoot better. No level of intelligence is going to make up for those deficiencies.

 

[bonefish1]

Here you go lenny, this will put it to rest for you:

Link 1 - Pay attention to: "Generally speaking, basketball IQ refers to the ability to just instinctively play the game and adapt to any situation that comes up. Knowing how to put the right play into motion at the right time is a skill that many players don’t instinctively possess"

And then also pay attention to the steps on how to improve it.

Then once you are done reading, come back to this thread and just admit you were wrong (again) WITHOUT MOVING THE GOALPOSTS (AGAIN) and everyone can move on.

That was found just doing a simple google search, which is something you could of done as well in a few seconds.

Did Big Dog have high Bball IQ?
What about Biggie?
Edwards?
Mathias?
Cline?

 

[bonefish1]

Ah, so what we refer to as Bball IQ is what you refer to as all those things you've listed?

As far as who has the highest Bball IQ on the current roster, I would say it's probably Gillis. He brings all of the intangibles. I would also say Trevion has a high Bball IQ most of the time. He knows how to obtain position down low, how to counter the defender, and also puts himself in a position to be a highly effective rebounder. He also makes some stupid mistakes with regard to fouling, but he's really worked to keep that under control this past year. I think big men sometimes don't get enough credit for how smart they play. It takes a lot of smarts to understand how to make a move on another big, especially when they're taller/bigger. Drew Timme comes to mind here as well...

What about Ivey?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Because the only thing that's going to turn a MAC player into a P5 player is being able to run faster, jump higher, and shoot better. No level of intelligence is going to make up for those deficiencies.

You said:
“But, Bball IQ is not going to magically make a MAC level player a P5 player.”

This implies that a MAC player can have a basketball IQ.

Magic couldn’t shoot, run or jump all that well. Wonder what made him a top 10 all time player...

 

[boilernuke]

IQ in my opinion is just a collection of many intangibles such as decision making, court vision, body positioning, using opponents tendencies against them, situational awareness, etc. Some players are just very good with those things. Not sure why this has to be an argument.

 

[BBG]

Did Big Dog have high Bball IQ?
What about Biggie?
Edwards?
Mathias?
Cline?

Stop moving the goal posts. You have said multiple times that it doesn't exist and there is absolute proof that it does along with definitions and examples.

At this point there are only two conclusions we can have:

1. You just can't admit you were wrong on the interwebs (my guess)
2. You're just trolling everyone because it's the slow season.

Move on lenny, you've dug a hole you can't get out of anymore.

 

[BBG]

Ah, so what we refer to as Bball IQ is what you refer to as all those things you've listed?

As far as who has the highest Bball IQ on the current roster, I would say it's probably Gillis. He brings all of the intangibles. I would also say Trevion has a high Bball IQ most of the time. He knows how to obtain position down low, how to counter the defender, and also puts himself in a position to be a highly effective rebounder. He also makes some stupid mistakes with regard to fouling, but he's really worked to keep that under control this past year. I think big men sometimes don't get enough credit for how smart they play. It takes a lot of smarts to understand how to make a move on another big, especially when they're taller/bigger. Drew Timme comes to mind here as well...

Perfect examples. Tre is a very good passer and by definition, has a high bball IQ so along with Gillis (as you said) those are the most accurate examples, for now. Others may develop it or show it more as they progress.

 

[BBG]

What about Ivey?

And the goal posts just keep on moving.......

 

[ChoiceBeef]

Why not create a separate post and title it "Basketball IQ" and you can have the discussion over there instead of blowing up posts?

 

[BBG]

Why not create a separate post and title it "Basketball IQ" and you can have the discussion over there instead of blowing up posts?

You're quite right and for my part I will try to avoid derailing this thread further with something not on topic with the original post.

We have this happen a lot here as it is.

 

[bonefish1]

You said:
“But, Bball IQ is not going to magically make a MAC level player a P5 player.”

This implies that a MAC player can have a basketball IQ.

Magic couldn’t shoot, run or jump all that well. Wonder what made him a top 10 all time player...

Well, isn't it obvious? He possessed such far superior basketball IQ than the rest of the NBA that he was overcome his inability to run, jump and shoot. That basketball IQ is a magical thing I tell you.

 

[bonefish1]

And the goal posts just keep on moving.......

No, I'm making a point.
So answer the question, does or does Ivey not possess high bball IQ?

 

[bonefish1]

IQ in my opinion is just a collection of many intangibles such as decision making, court vision, body positioning, using opponents tendencies against them, situational awareness, etc. Some players are just very good with those things. Not sure why this has to be an argument.

I agree with all those things, which is why I say IQ is a misnomer. It implies a superior level of intelligence and that someone that doesn't possess it (whatever 'it' is) is left there standing like a gap toothed iu goober saying "shucks, why didn't I think of that?"

 

[bonefish1]

You said:
“But, Bball IQ is not going to magically make a MAC level player a P5 player.”

This implies that a MAC player can have a basketball IQ.

Magic couldn’t shoot, run or jump all that well. Wonder what made him a top 10 all time player...

No. It implies that MAC players aren't as good as P5 players. Otherwise, they wouldn't be playing in the MAC.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Well, isn't it obvious? He possessed such far superior basketball IQ than the rest of the NBA that he was overcome his inability to run, jump and shoot. That basketball IQ is a magical thing I tell you.

So Magic did have a high basketball IQ?

 

[BoilerAndy]

Because the only thing that's going to turn a MAC player into a P5 player is being able to run faster, jump higher, and shoot better. No level of intelligence is going to make up for those deficiencies.

Larry Bird played for Indiana State (Missouri Valley Conference). Several MAC players played in the NBA. Hmm.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Yes, it does and you're the only one probably on the planet that thinks it doesn't. Google it, read the link in my other post then stop being such an obtuse tool.

The earth is flat because that's how Lenny perceives it.

 

[KingofJersey]

Like I said, basketball "IQ" is a misnomer. It implies some level of higher understanding (sounds pretty elitist to me...).
Do some guys have better passing skills? Yes.
Do some guys see the floor or have better anticipation? Yes.
Do some guys know what the defense is trying to do and are able to counter that? Yes.
You can call that what you want, I just call it being a good ball player.
But, Bball IQ is not going to magically make a MAC level player a P5 player.

Who do you think has the highest Bball IQ on the current roster?

Like I said, "speed" is a misnomer. It implies some level of superior physical ability (sounds pretty elitist to me...).
Do some guys pick up their feet faster than others? Yes.
Do some guys have quicker acceleration? Yes.
Do some guys move their bodies more rapidly than other players? Yes.
Can some players move their legs at a more frequent pace than others, propelling them forward at higher velocities? Yes.
You can call it what you want, I just call it swift motion.
But, Speed is not going to magically make you move faster.

Who do you think has the highest "Speed" on the current roster?

 

[bonefish1]

Like I said, "speed" is a misnomer. It implies some level of superior physical ability (sounds pretty elitist to me...).
Do some guys pick up their feet faster than others? Yes.
Do some guys have quicker acceleration? Yes.
Do some guys move their bodies more rapidly than other players? Yes.
Can some players move their legs at a more frequent pace than others, propelling them forward at higher velocities? Yes.
You can call it what you want, I just call it swift motion.
But, Speed is not going to magically make you move faster.

Who do you think has the highest "Speed" on the current roster?

Speed, vertical and shooting % are all objective traits that you can measure and rank compared to a set of peers. It's a huge part of the NFL combine.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Speed, vertical and shooting % are all objective traits that you can measure and rank compared to a set of peers. It's a huge part of the NFL combine.

The NFL also administers an IQ test. Someone needs to tell them that IQ doesn't exist.

 

[bonefish1]

The NFL also administers an IQ test. Someone needs to tell them that IQ doesn't exist.

Ha ha. No player that was considered a high draft pick wasn't drafted high because of their IQ test score. The same reason we don't care if our Purdue athletes get good grades, as long as their grades are good enough to stay eligible.

 

[BBG]

Ha ha. No player that was considered a high draft pick wasn't drafted high because of their IQ test score. The same reason we don't care if our Purdue athletes get good grades, as long as their grades are good enough to stay eligible.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Arguing with Lenny is reminiscent of arguing with a wife. Even when you present him with facts you are wrong.

Here you go lenny, this will put it to rest for you:

Link 1 - Pay attention to: "Generally speaking, basketball IQ refers to the ability to just instinctively play the game and adapt to any situation that comes up. Knowing how to put the right play into motion at the right time is a skill that many players don’t instinctively possess"

And then also pay attention to the steps on how to improve it.

Then once you are done reading, come back to this thread and just admit you were wrong (again) WITHOUT MOVING THE GOALPOSTS (AGAIN) and everyone can move on.

That was found just doing a simple google search, which is something you could of done as well in a few seconds.

Stop moving the goal posts. You have said multiple times that it doesn't exist and there is absolute proof that it does along with definitions and examples.

At this point there are only two conclusions we can have:

1. You just can't admit you were wrong on the interwebs (my guess)
2. You're just trolling everyone because it's the slow season.

Move on lenny, you've dug a hole you can't get out of anymore.

Why not create a separate post and title it "Basketball IQ" and you can have the discussion over there instead of blowing up posts?

Well, isn't it obvious? He possessed such far superior basketball IQ than the rest of the NBA that he was overcome his inability to run, jump and shoot. That basketball IQ is a magical thing I tell you.

Gotta give some kudos to "Old Golden Boy" Lenny for continuing to play rope-a-dope in a Herculean effort to outlast all posters. This one's going the distance, folks.

 

[purduepat1969]

What about Ivey?

Ivey hasn't yet learned to control his play. He still takes bad shots when he shouldn't. He'll get there, but he's not there yet.

 

[bonefish1]

Ivey hasn't yet learned to control his play. He still takes bad shots when he shouldn't. He'll get there, but he's not there yet.

Yet he's our only sure fire NBA draft pick at this point. That's weird.....Even without a high bball IQ, he's likely to be a 1st rounder, maybe even a lottery pick.

You probably thought Carsen took some ill advised shots (guess what..when you're the best player on the floor, that's what you do).

 

[Indy_Rider]

Holy freak, this discussion went full retard.

Anyone that doesn't believe there is such a thing as Basketball IQ and that it isn't important don't know shit about basketball.

 

[purduepat1969]

Yet he's our only sure fire NBA draft pick at this point. That's weird.....Even without a high bball IQ, he's likely to be a 1st rounder, maybe even a lottery pick.

You probably thought Carsen took some ill advised shots (guess what..when you're the best player on the floor, that's what you do).

Goodness sakes. You're persistent. I'll give you that. Ivey was a freaking freshman. Carsen did the same thing as a freshman. Just because I don't think he has the best basketball IQ at this moment doesn't mean he won't be a great player. You can't seem to grasp that great player doesn't equal high basketball IQ...

 

[bonefish1]

Goodness sakes. You're persistent. I'll give you that. Ivey was a freaking freshman. Carsen did the same thing as a freshman. Just because I don't think he has the best basketball IQ at this moment doesn't mean he won't be a great player. You can't seem to grasp that great player doesn't equal high basketball IQ...

So, you can be a great player and not have a high bball IQ?
My issue with the term is that it's usually reserved for a certain type of player (not overly athletic, usually white, etc) and used as a replacement term to compensate where the player lacks skill and athleticism.
So that a fan or coach basically says "Yeh, he's not a great athlete but he makes up for it by playing smart". Which is fine, but at this level and when you're trying to make Final Fours, I don't think you make up for great athletes who also happen to be great ball players by saying someone has a high basketball IQ and because of that, can consistently compete with these other guys.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Ha ha. No player that was considered a high draft pick wasn't drafted high because of their IQ test score. The same reason we don't care if our Purdue athletes get good grades, as long as their grades are good enough to stay eligible.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Yet he's our only sure fire NBA draft pick at this point. That's weird.....Even without a high bball IQ, he's likely to be a 1st rounder, maybe even a lottery pick.

You probably thought Carsen took some ill advised shots (guess what..when you're the best player on the floor, that's what you do).