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Purdue 22nd in ESPN's Jeff Goodman's latest top 25

boilerzz

boilerzz

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Insider link is below but here is what he wrote:

22. Purdue Boilermakers

Projected starting lineup: PG Johnny Hill, SG Rapheal Davis, SF Vince Edwards, PF Caleb Swanigan, C A.J. Hammons

Matt Painter has one of the most potent frontlines in the country with the addition of Swanigan to accompany 7-footer Hammons and Isaac Haas. Davis and Edwards are solid wings and Hill should start at the point after transferring in from UT-Arlington.


http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/jeff-goodman/insider/post?id=5033
 
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boilerzz said:
Insider link is below but here is what he wrote:

22. Purdue Boilermakers

Projected starting lineup: PG Johnny Hill, SG Rapheal Davis, SF Vince Edwards, PF Caleb Swanigan, C A.J. Hammons

Matt Painter has one of the most potent frontlines in the country with the addition of Swanigan to accompany 7-footer Hammons and Isaac Haas. Davis and Edwards are solid wings and Hill should start at the point after transferring in from UT-Arlington.


http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/jeff-goodman/insider/post?id=5033
Click to expand...

Still To low IMHO. I'm thinking 15-18.
 
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You need to be in the top 25 or just out preseason, after that on court performance will get us to the right ranking. Its too hard to move into the top25 if you dont start near it.

Did I just pull a Madden?
 
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IndyBoilers2000 said:
You need to be in the top 25 or just out preseason, after that on court performance will get us to the right ranking. Its too hard to move into the top25 if you dont start near it.

Did I just pull a Madden?
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Not at all. I tried to say this in another thread and someone called me a dumbass. This is exactly correct. You need to be in the conversation to start or have a huge season to get a good seed. Also beating an overranked team in the preseason can be a way to draw attention to yourself.
 
Since we never get any love from media, I'll take 22nd. I think we are better than that too, but it still has to be proven. I'm just happy to see us in the top 25 conversation again. I don't understand the love for Michigan and Wisconsin though. No doubt they will be decent teams, but they are over rated big time in this poll.
 
SNU0821 said:
After Maryland, I think IU, PU, UM, MSU and Wisky are all too close to call at this point.
Click to expand...
Purdue finished 3rd in the B1G last year. IU finished 7th.
Purdue lost 2 players (starting PG). IU lost 4 (starting center).
Purdue is bringing in 4 players; 5* (#9 in the nation) forward, 4* SG, 3* PG, and a 5th year transfer PG.
IU is bringing in 3 recruits; two 4* forwards and one 3* forward.
Purdue returns the best post defender and the best perimeter defender in the B1G. IU doesn't play defense.

Yep, sounds like they should be neck and neck next year. (smh)
 
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GodFamilyCountryPurdue said:
Purdue finished 3rd in the B1G last year. IU finished 7th.
Purdue lost 2 players (starting PG). IU lost 4 (starting center).
Purdue is bringing in 4 players; 5* (#9 in the nation) forward, 4* SG, 3* PG, and a 5th year transfer PG.
IU is bringing in 3 recruits; two 4* forwards and one 3* forward.
Purdue returns the best post defender and the best perimeter defender in the B1G. IU doesn't play defense.

Yep, sounds like they should be neck and neck next year. (smh)
Click to expand...
Instead of getting into a pissing match, just answer me why this is yet another college basketball writer/analyst that has IU ranked ahead of Purdue?

I understand you're excited about your team, and you should be, but let's not act like Purdue is head and shoulders above teams (projected) in the top half of the league. The top six teams are going to be very good and very close IMO. There are questions with each of those teams but they are ALL going to be very good. UM was a dumpster fire the first half of last year. This year they return everyone and bring in a highly rated big man. LeVert, Walton and Irvin should be very tough. They'll have a deep bench, too. MSU is going to be loaded with Harris and Valentine in the backcourt with Forbes and Davis helping as well. Maryland is the overwhelming favorite and I don't even need to go through their lineup. IU will have one of the best backcourts in the B10 and possibly the country. We bring in a McDonald's All American center which fills the biggest hole in our lineup. We had one of the best offenses in the country last year (Kenpom adj o) and our defense should improve with the addition of an actual center.

Again, after Maryland, the rest of IU, UM, PU and MSU are are too close to call right now IMO. So, what you posted is all fine and good, but your 3rd place finish is going to be tougher next year given your schedule is much tougher than last year. You were 1-4 against the top five teams in the B10. Your 4* SG and 3* PG won't contribute much this year. Cline may contribute some, but Wetherford won't. Swaningan will be a force but it just plays into an already overwhelming strength for Purdue. You have no PG. Hill looks like a poor mans Octeus. Your outside shooting has been suspect. Yes your defense is very tough, but your offense isn't the greatest. It's not terrible, but it's not great. So my point, all those things you threw out there are great but things change from year to year. Teams lose players and bring in players. Players improve. Some players don't. You act like what I said is crazy. It's really not. The tons of preseason talk and rankings pretty much sum up what I threw out there as well. Everyone must be crazy, right?
 
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SNU0821 said:
Instead of getting into a pissing match, just answer me why this is yet another college basketball writer/analyst that has IU ranked ahead of Purdue?

I understand you're excited about your team, and you should be, but let's not act like Purdue is head and shoulders above teams (projected) in the top half of the league. The top six teams are going to be very good and very close IMO. There are questions with each of those teams but they are ALL going to be very good. UM was a dumpster fire the first half of last year. This year they return everyone and bring in a highly rated big man. LeVert, Walton and Irvin should be very tough. They'll have a deep bench, too. MSU is going to be loaded with Harris and Valentine in the backcourt with Forbes and Davis helping as well. Maryland is the overwhelming favorite and I don't even need to go through their lineup. IU will have one of the best backcourts in the B10 and possibly the country. We bring in a McDonald's All American center which fills the biggest hole in our lineup. We had one of the most best offenses in the country last year (Kenpom adj o) and our defense should improve with the addition of an actual center.

Again, after Maryland, the rest of IU, UM, PU and MSU are are too close to call right now IMO. So, what you posted is all fine and good, but your 3rd place finish is going to be tougher next year given your schedule is much tougher than last year. You were 1-4 against the top five teams in the B10. Your 4* SG and 3* PG won't contribute much this year. Cline may contribute some, but Wetherford won't. Swaningan will be a force but it just plays into an already overwhelming strength for Purdue. You have no PG. Hill looks like a poor mans Octeus. Your outside shooting has been suspect. Yes your defense is very tough, but your offense isn't the greatest. It's not terrible, but it's not great. So my point, all those things you threw out there are great but things change from year to year. Teams lose players and bring in players. Players improve. Some players don't. You act like what I said is crazy. It's really not. The tons of preseason talk and rankings pretty much sum up what I threw out there as well. Everyone must be crazy, right?
Click to expand...

*Weatherford
*Swanigan

Not even going to get into the other grammar-related embarrassment (e.g. most best)

You make some fair points, but to say Purdue has "no PG" is plain stupid. You can't say that until the season starts. Furthermore, I don't think we are all too worried about that perceived weakness. Sure, a PG is a great thing to have, but, quite honestly, in the motion offense, I really don't think it's an absolute necessity. At the end of the day, Purdue is as talented and as deep as any team in the B1G. IU can have it's backcourt - I fear Yogi, but Davis shut down Blackmon.

Also, having watched Thomas Bryant, he's not overwhelmingly athletic, and his skill set, at this point, is nothing special. Maybe just my Purdue bias, but oh well. Regardless, I'll be shocked if Purdue doesn't finish higher than IU.
 
SNU0821 said:
Instead of getting into a pissing match, just answer me why this is yet another college basketball writer/analyst that has IU ranked ahead of Purdue?

I understand you're excited about your team, and you should be, but let's not act like Purdue is head and shoulders above teams (projected) in the top half of the league. The top six teams are going to be very good and very close IMO. There are questions with each of those teams but they are ALL going to be very good. UM was a dumpster fire the first half of last year. This year they return everyone and bring in a highly rated big man. LeVert, Walton and Irvin should be very tough. They'll have a deep bench, too. MSU is going to be loaded with Harris and Valentine in the backcourt with Forbes and Davis helping as well. Maryland is the overwhelming favorite and I don't even need to go through their lineup. IU will have one of the best backcourts in the B10 and possibly the country. We bring in a McDonald's All American center which fills the biggest hole in our lineup. We had one of the most best offenses in the country last year (Kenpom adj o) and our defense should improve with the addition of an actual center.

Again, after Maryland, the rest of IU, UM, PU and MSU are are too close to call right now IMO. So, what you posted is all fine and good, but your 3rd place finish is going to be tougher next year given your schedule is much tougher than last year. You were 1-4 against the top five teams in the B10. Your 4* SG and 3* PG won't contribute much this year. Cline may contribute some, but Wetherford won't. Swaningan will be a force but it just plays into an already overwhelming strength for Purdue. You have no PG. Hill looks like a poor mans Octeus. Your outside shooting has been suspect. Yes your defense is very tough, but your offense isn't the greatest. It's not terrible, but it's not great. So my point, all those things you threw out there are great but things change from year to year. Teams lose players and bring in players. Players improve. Some players don't. You act like what I said is crazy. It's really not. The tons of preseason talk and rankings pretty much sum up what I threw out there as well. Everyone must be crazy, right?
Click to expand...
SNU0821 said:
Instead of getting into a pissing match, just answer me why this is yet another college basketball writer/analyst that has IU ranked ahead of Purdue?

I understand you're excited about your team, and you should be, but let's not act like Purdue is head and shoulders above teams (projected) in the top half of the league. The top six teams are going to be very good and very close IMO. There are questions with each of those teams but they are ALL going to be very good. UM was a dumpster fire the first half of last year. This year they return everyone and bring in a highly rated big man. LeVert, Walton and Irvin should be very tough. They'll have a deep bench, too. MSU is going to be loaded with Harris and Valentine in the backcourt with Forbes and Davis helping as well. Maryland is the overwhelming favorite and I don't even need to go through their lineup. IU will have one of the best backcourts in the B10 and possibly the country. We bring in a McDonald's All American center which fills the biggest hole in our lineup. We had one of the most best offenses in the country last year (Kenpom adj o) and our defense should improve with the addition of an actual center.

Again, after Maryland, the rest of IU, UM, PU and MSU are are too close to call right now IMO. So, what you posted is all fine and good, but your 3rd place finish is going to be tougher next year given your schedule is much tougher than last year. You were 1-4 against the top five teams in the B10. Your 4* SG and 3* PG won't contribute much this year. Cline may contribute some, but Wetherford won't. Swaningan will be a force but it just plays into an already overwhelming strength for Purdue. You have no PG. Hill looks like a poor mans Octeus. Your outside shooting has been suspect. Yes your defense is very tough, but your offense isn't the greatest. It's not terrible, but it's not great. So my point, all those things you threw out there are great but things change from year to year. Teams lose players and bring in players. Players improve. Some players don't. You act like what I said is crazy. It's really not. The tons of preseason talk and rankings pretty much sum up what I threw out there as well. Everyone must be crazy, right?
Click to expand...

The difference is actually in what we know. Purdue and IU finished the second half of the B1G going in two different directions. Our loss of hole as you say is being filled by a fifth year guy with D1 experience and yours is being filled by a kid out of high school who is totally green to D1 ball, not to mention undersized for the position he will be asked to fill.

Most Purdue fans see our "hole" as much smaller then the one IU needed to fill and taking finish, records, and depth issues into consideration, it isn't a stretch to see how not many here see it the way you do.
 
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Lol so let me get this straight... Iu loses one 5 star junior big and adds a fringe 5 star freshmen big and we aren't suppose to put that in the equation? But yet we are supposed to take our deductions.

Don't fool yourselves Bryant is no Vonley and sure the heck not a Zeller. Thats alot of weight on a freshman and unlike Purdue you don't have many backup plans. And before you start calling Hanner a bust, please stop and realize that you have no idea whether Bryant will be or not.

http://www.searchingforbillyedelin....cruit-hanner-perea-received-benefits-from-aau
 
GodFamilyCountryPurdue said:
Purdue finished 3rd in the B1G last year. IU finished 7th.
Purdue lost 2 players (starting PG). IU lost 4 (starting center).
Purdue is bringing in 4 players; 5* (#9 in the nation) forward, 4* SG, 3* PG, and a 5th year transfer PG.
IU is bringing in 3 recruits; two 4* forwards and one 3* forward.
Purdue returns the best post defender and the best perimeter defender in the B1G. IU doesn't play defense.

Yep, sounds like they should be neck and neck next year. (smh)
Click to expand...

Lest you forget IU has the great developer of players and master of in-game adjustments and all we have is Painter!!!
 
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jadeezra said:
Lol so let me get this straight... Iu loses one 5 star junior big and adds a fringe 5 star freshmen big and we aren't suppose to put that in the equation? But yet we are supposed to take our deductions.

Don't fool yourselves Bryant is no Vonley and sure the heck not a Zeller. Thats alot of weight on a freshman and unlike Purdue you don't have many backup plans. And before you start calling Hanner a bust, please stop and realize that you have no idea whether Bryant will be or not.
Click to expand...
Let me clarify things for you. Perea WAS rated a 5* at one point. He didn't end up a 5*. He was RSCI #50 which is far from 5* territory.

We don't need him to be Vonleh or Zeller. Where he will impact the game the most will be on defense, IMO. He just needs to be a threat to score in a one on one situation on offense on the block. He's big enough and skilled enough to do so. We don't NEED him to average 15 and 10 a night. That's not a ton of weight on his shoulders. I don't know how Bryant will turn out but you all here are acting like he has to be the next Anthony Davis or something. Our offense was pretty damn good without a threat down low. No reason to think that will change. Where it WILL change is on defense.

Same can be said for Swanigan. Nobody knows how the kid will do. He could be a bust or a one and done. I don't think Bryant is a one and done type. I'd bet he will be at IU for three years at the minimum.
 
SNU0821 said:
Let me clarify things for you. Perea WAS rated a 5* at one point. He didn't end up a 5*. He was RSCI #50 which is far from 5* territory.

We don't need him to be Vonleh or Zeller. Where he will impact the game the most will be on defense, IMO. He just needs to be a threat to score in a one on one situation on offense on the block. He's big enough and skilled enough to do so. We don't NEED him to average 15 and 10 a night. That's not a ton of weight on his shoulders. I don't know how Bryant will turn out but you all here are acting like he has to be the next Anthony Davis or something. Our offense was pretty damn good without a threat down low. No reason to think that will change. Where it WILL change is on defense.

Same can be said for Swanigan. Nobody knows how the kid will do. He could be a bust or a one and done. I don't think Bryant is a one and done type. I'd bet he will be at IU for three years at the minimum.
Click to expand...
Its hard to impact a game on the defensive side when you get 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes. That is what happens to freshmen bigs (and he's not even a big). He's not used to playing against another big. He played alongside another 6'10" guy in high school. He can't do that at IU against B1G talent.
 
SNU0821 said:
Same can be said for Swanigan. Nobody knows how the kid will do. He could be a bust or a one and done. I don't think Bryant is a one and done type. I'd bet he will be at IU for three years at the minimum.
Click to expand...
And if Swanigan is a bust we move Edwards to the 4 and move on with a STILL tough team on the floor. You said yourself that Caleb only helps us where we were already tough.

If Bryant is a bust, you have a huge hole in the middle.

If both work out Purdue is even tougher.
 
proudopete said:
The difference is actually in what we know. Purdue and IU finished the second half of the B1G going in two different directions. Our loss of hole as you say is being filled by a fifth year guy with D1 experience and yours is being filled by a kid out of high school who is totally green to D1 ball, not to mention undersized for the position he will be asked to fill.

Most Purdue fans see our "hole" as much smaller then the one IU needed to fill and taking finish, records, and depth issues into consideration, it isn't a stretch to see how not many here see it the way you do.
Click to expand...
Finish last year and record don't mean much, IMO. Look at Purdue. You guys finished last one year and turn around and finish third the next. So it happens. Couple that with the amount of returning core players for teams like IU and UM and it's not hard to see why people have them ranked where they are. Yes we have a freshman that will be a vital part of our team next year, but so do many other ranked teams. I get what you're saying, though. I don't know why it's so hard for people here to admit that both IU and Purdue are going to be good next year. Clearly most people around the country agree with that statement.

I don't really think 6'10 is really that undersized for a center.
 
GodFamilyCountryPurdue said:
Its hard to impact a game on the defensive side when you get 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes. That is what happens to freshmen bigs (and he's not even a big). He's not used to playing against another big. He played alongside another 6'10" guy in high school. He can't do that at IU against B1G talent.
Click to expand...
Really? Didn't happen to Zeller. Didn't happen with Vonleh either. Foul trouble isn't always the case with young bigs.
 
sixpackpete said:
And if Swanigan is a bust we move Edwards to the 4 and move on with a STILL tough team on the floor. You said yourself that Caleb only helps us where we were already tough.

If Bryant is a bust, you have a huge hole in the middle.

If both work out Purdue is even tougher.
Click to expand...
I don't think either are going to be a bust. I think both are going to be good players next year.
 
SNU0821 said:
Finish last year and record don't mean much, IMO. Look at Purdue. You guys finished last one year and turn around and finish third the next. So it happens. Couple that with the amount of returning core players for teams like IU and UM and it's not hard to see why people have them ranked where they are. Yes we have a freshman that will be a vital part of our team next year, but so do many other ranked teams. I get what you're saying, though. I don't know why it's so hard for people here to admit that both IU and Purdue are going to be good next year. Clearly most people around the country agree with that statement.

I don't really think 6'10 is really that undersized for a center.
Click to expand...
When a team is returning a core group of players, I think how you finish and the way you played down the stretch should have a huge bearing on where you are ranked in the offseason. It should have as much weight as unknowns such as how a frosh will fill a gaping hole. Silly me, I guess.
 
proudopete said:
When a team is returning a core group of players, I think how you finish and the way you played down the stretch should have a huge bearing on where you are ranked in the offseason. It should have as much weight as unknowns such as how a frosh will fill a gaping hole. Silly me, I guess.
Click to expand...
I think it's just how things go in college basketball today with so many freshman coming in and playing well right off the bat.

Regardless, I wasn't trying to make this about IU and PU. All I said was there are a handful of teams after Maryland that will be very good and IMO are too close to call who should be where. I don't think that's a crazy comment by any means.
 
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woggy718 said:
Still To low IMHO. I'm thinking 15-18.
Click to expand...


15 looks about right. If we are that good, we'll soon climb up the rankings. Sure helps to have a manageable/winable pre B1G schedule. Florida could be interesting in that tourney. Didn't they have some real height who saw legit floor time last season? Painter is just going to have to prove the "experts" wrong. Get the guard situation straightened out early/first, the rest should follow more easily.
 
BoilerFan#35 said:
I see us as a top 10 team. 22nd is the worst I expect out of this team.
Click to expand...




If we finish the season ranked no better than 22, with no major injuries to deal with, something has to change, somewhere? I don't see that happening. How good are our guards, & their play? That will go a long way in determining our final ranking. " A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link". If we have lingering guard problems/guard play, that will be exposed long before the B1G season ever starts, like we had last season. Turnovers were a real killer, last pre B1G season. Now is the time to start getting the guard questions answered, as much as is legally possible. Never too late to fix somthing, or find out where your real weaknesses are. Your opponents will surely exploit those weaknesses first, like blood in the water, to sharks. They will attack it relentlessly, until you prove it is no more a problem.
 
SNU0821 said:
Let me clarify things for you. Perea WAS rated a 5* at one point. He didn't end up a 5*. He was RSCI #50 which is far from 5* territory.

We don't need him to be Vonleh or Zeller. Where he will impact the game the most will be on defense, IMO. He just needs to be a threat to score in a one on one situation on offense on the block. He's big enough and skilled enough to do so. We don't NEED him to average 15 and 10 a night. That's not a ton of weight on his shoulders. I don't know how Bryant will turn out but you all here are acting like he has to be the next Anthony Davis or something. Our offense was pretty damn good without a threat down low. No reason to think that will change. Where it WILL change is on defense.

Same can be said for Swanigan. Nobody knows how the kid will do. He could be a bust or a one and done. I don't think Bryant is a one and done type. I'd bet he will be at IU for three years at the minimum.
Click to expand...


That's just it about Blackmon & Yogi, even if IU had Zeller, the ball would basically go to him, [from Yogi] after about every 3rd time Crean threatened pulling him from the game. Yogi wants to set up Yogi, & IU has nothing close to a Zeller type force this season. IU will be good, [baring major injuries] but Crean's stress on defense, is sorely lacking, to say the least. Like last season, Crean's "just outscore them" approach failed, especially late in games & season. IU needs a new coach, & if this season goes anything like last, that could very well happen. Being a lifelong Purdue fan, I hope Crean is at IU forever. He recruits well enough, talks a good talk, but he's a bad motivator, has poor discipnary skills & lacks foresight.

Please, please, IU, keep Crean, & that matador defense as well.
 
billyhillui said:
That's just it about Blackmon & Yogi, even if IU had Zeller, the ball would basically go to him, [from Yogi] after about every 3rd time Crean threatened pulling him from the game. Yogi wants to set up Yogi, & IU has nothing close to a Zeller type force this season. IU will be good, [baring major injuries] but Crean's stress on defense, is sorely lacking, to say the least. Like last season, Crean's "just outscore them" approach failed, especially late in games & season. IU needs a new coach, & if this season goes anything like last, that could very well happen. Being a lifelong Purdue fan, I hope Crean is at IU forever. He recruits well enough, talks a good talk, but he's a bad motivator, has poor discipnary skills & lacks foresight.

Please, please, IU, keep Crean, & that matador defense as well.
Click to expand...
Zeller was the #4 in the draft. I don't think any B10 team will have a big man like that.
 
SNU0821 said:
Zeller was the #4 in the draft. I don't think any B10 team will have a big man like that.
Click to expand...




At this point, Hammons would have a tremendous amount of work/results ahead of him to be in that catagory, but if he continues to improve at his current rate, the Purdue guards work out well, early, Hammons could be a #4 draft pick, or better. To that potential #4 pick, I have less questions about the talent of Hammons, than I do the players getting him the ball, at the right time, in the right position, enough times. That happens, #4 or higher.
 
SNU0821 said:
Really? Didn't happen to Zeller. Didn't happen with Vonleh either. Foul trouble isn't always the case with young bigs.
Click to expand...
Zeller was a 7'0" top 15 player who was ranked a 5*. Vonleh was a 6'10" top 10 recruit. He also averaged about 4 fouls in all of the games you guys lost that year. He helped you to a 7-11 B1G record. Good for him? Bryant is a 6'9" (according to his latest measurements at the Lebron camp) 4* recruit. Again, he will be in foul trouble a lot (just like Vonleh).
 
billyhillui said:
At this point, Hammons would have a tremendous amount of work/results ahead of him to be in that catagory, but if he continues to improve at his current rate, the Purdue guards work out well, early, Hammons could be a #4 draft pick, or better. To that potential #4 pick, I have less questions about the talent of Hammons, than I do the players getting him the ball, at the right time, in the right position, enough times. That happens, #4 or higher.
Click to expand...
Agree to disagree. I don't see Hammons being the #4 pick under any circumstances. Part of that is due to younger players with more upside, but the other part is I don't think he's that good. He's a good player but he's not THAT good.
 
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