What It Will Take to Revive Football

[MidyearVette]

The first thing we need in place is an AD with a recognizable name and track record (NFL experience and contacts preferred). Second, we need a Football Coach and Staff that can capitalize on Purdue's most significant recruiting asset - Success at QB position at the NFL level. We are not going to compete with OSU, UM, ND for 4 and 5 star non-skill position players. If I was a top High School QB, RB, WR prospect and Purdue's coaching staff ran a Pro-Style Offense that emphasized getting me ready to play in the NFL, I would strongly consider Purdue over the "3 Yards and a Cloud of Dust" universities like Michigan and Ohio State.

Throughout Purdue's history, when we were competitive it wasn't because we were knocking defensive linemen 3 yards off the line of scrimmage. We were successful using our skills, intelligence and guile with a pass-oriented attack. The football field is 53 yards wide - run an offense that makes the defense spread out and cover all of it and we have a decent chance of winning against anyone.

 

[nat100]

1) Purdue most likely wont get a recognizable name
2) QBs dont need to play in a pro style offense to get recognized by the NFL. Brees certainly didnt.
3) OSU doesnt run 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Neither does Michigan.

 

[Fan4Life]

One word. . . WIN. Win and football will be revived. Nothing else matters. It doesn't have to be huge either. Going 7-5 or 8-4 in year 1 would be big enough to grow on.

As for your list, I don't see how a reckognizable name helps at all. Nebraska had some of their worst years under Tom Osborne as AD. It's whether an AD can make the right hires.

 

[lbodel]

The first thing we need in place is an AD with a recognizable name and track record (NFL experience and contacts preferred). Second, we need a Football Coach and Staff that can capitalize on Purdue's most significant recruiting asset - Success at QB position at the NFL level. We are not going to compete with OSU, UM, ND for 4 and 5 star non-skill position players. If I was a top High School QB, RB, WR prospect and Purdue's coaching staff ran a Pro-Style Offense that emphasized getting me ready to play in the NFL, I would strongly consider Purdue over the "3 Yards and a Cloud of Dust" universities like Michigan and Ohio State.

Throughout Purdue's history, when we were competitive it wasn't because we were knocking defensive linemen 3 yards off the line of scrimmage. We were successful using our skills, intelligence and guile with a pass-oriented attack. The football field is 53 yards wide - run an offense that makes the defense spread out and cover all of it and we have a decent chance of winning against anyone.

I am not sure why NFL experience would be one of your top search criteria. The NFL and the realm of college sports are not all that similar.

 

[pboiler18]

1. Good coaching hire. I think PJ Fleck would be good for us because he recruits above his level. We were best when we were competing with Iowa, MSU, Wisky, Ill, and teams who used to be on our level for recruits. We don't need a squad of 4 stars to be good....but we do need to grab A TON of good 3 stars, coach them up and we'll be in much better shape talent wise. Think a whole bunch of Markell Jones at their respective positions....this team would be a lot better. Good HS players with potential.
2. Run a scheme that's different. Wisky gets the OL and TEs and RBs to take a hard look at them because of the scheme they run. Even local kids take a hard look at IU because they like the high powered scheme they run vs. our lack of identity now. If we had a scheme that stood out we would definitely attract a slightly better talent pool.
3. WIN!

 

[Summy1]

See my post about getting a new A.D. which will lead to a new football coach.

 

[BoilerStutz]

They need an AD who understands recruiting. Purdue's inability to recruit across the major revenue sports is maddening. They have to figure out how to attract some of the stronger Indiana kids.

Burke's double dumb "futuristic recruiting plan" under Hope was as silly as it gets. Hazell's initial plan to run a power offense was equally stupid. How about we just look for someone who is bright and humble? That is the Purdue way.

 

[lbodel]

They need an AD who understands recruiting. Purdue's inability to recruit across the major revenue sports is maddening. They have to figure out how to attract some of the stronger Indiana kids.

Burke's double dumb "futuristic recruiting plan" under Hope was as silly as it gets. Hazell's initial plan to run a power offense was equally stupid. How about we just look for someone who is bright and humble? That is the Purdue way.

Maryland's coach has already made huge in-roads in recruiting. A coach who knows what they're doing is helpful.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

The first thing we need in place is an AD with a recognizable name and track record (NFL experience and contacts preferred). Second, we need a Football Coach and Staff that can capitalize on Purdue's most significant recruiting asset - Success at QB position at the NFL level. We are not going to compete with OSU, UM, ND for 4 and 5 star non-skill position players. If I was a top High School QB, RB, WR prospect and Purdue's coaching staff ran a Pro-Style Offense that emphasized getting me ready to play in the NFL, I would strongly consider Purdue over the "3 Yards and a Cloud of Dust" universities like Michigan and Ohio State.

Throughout Purdue's history, when we were competitive it wasn't because we were knocking defensive linemen 3 yards off the line of scrimmage. We were successful using our skills, intelligence and guile with a pass-oriented attack. The football field is 53 yards wide - run an offense that makes the defense spread out and cover all of it and we have a decent chance of winning against anyone.

I think Malone has done a better job of suiting the offensive style to the players he has, hence Bilal Marshall being used in a wildcat formation this year. Really, a great idea with his size and running ability along with his passing skills as a former QB. I think Malone was an instant upgrade that alone could lead to 1 or 2 wins that Shoop would never have gotten the program this year.

In terms of QB recruitment, I haven't seen a huge dropoff under Hazell but the issue has been development of the position. That, once again, lays at the feet of John Shoop. Purdue has never really landed highly rated QB's other than Kyle Orton and Brandon Hance. The recruitment of two high ability QB's in 3 years under Hazell (Blough and Sindelar) tells me Hazell has the ability to get some good prospects at the QB position but the issue of developing them in the QB room fell on Shoop.

Your comments about OSU and Michigan are probably 10-15 years out of date. OSU, since Tressel left, is about as spread offense you can be without going the route of Baylor or Oregon. Michigan plays a balanced pro-style offense the lends itself to play-action and hitting the TE's in seams and flats. The only teams I would consider to be close to your '3 yards and a cloud of dust' reference in the B1G right now would be Wisconsin and MSU...and in fact Wisconsin threw the ball about as much as anyone in the conference last year.

At this point in the rebuild, it wouldn't matter if Purdue was running Oregon's offense, the wishbone, or the triple option. The issues weren't the style of offense, it was the person putting it in place (John Shoop) and the inability to execute it properly due to a number of different factors (over complicating simple ideas, placing too much post-snap on the QB's, not using personnel correctly, etc.).

 

[lbodel]

I think Malone has done a better job of suiting the offensive style to the players he has, hence Bilal Marshall being used in a wildcat formation this year. Really, a great idea with his size and running ability along with his passing skills as a former QB. I think Malone was an instant upgrade that alone could lead to 1 or 2 wins that Shoop would never have gotten the program this year.

In terms of QB recruitment, I haven't seen a huge dropoff under Hazell but the issue has been development of the position. That, once again, lays at the feet of John Shoop. Purdue has never really landed highly rated QB's other than Kyle Orton and Brandon Hance. The recruitment of two high ability QB's in 3 years under Hazell (Blough and Sindelar) tells me Hazell has the ability to get some good prospects at the QB position but the issue of developing them in the QB room fell on Shoop.

Your comments about OSU and Michigan are probably 10-15 years out of date. OSU, since Tressel left, is about as spread offense you can be without going the route of Baylor or Oregon. Michigan plays a balanced pro-style offense the lends itself to play-action and hitting the TE's in seams and flats. The only teams I would consider to be close to your '3 yards and a cloud of dust' reference in the B1G right now would be Wisconsin and MSU...and in fact Wisconsin threw the ball about as much as anyone in the conference last year.

At this point in the rebuild, it wouldn't matter if Purdue was running Oregon's offense, the wishbone, or the triple option. The issues weren't the style of offense, it was the person putting it in place (John Shoop) and the inability to execute it properly due to a number of different factors (over complicating simple ideas, placing too much post-snap on the QB's, not using personnel correctly, etc.).

With quarterbacks, I see it both ways. You can really argue that Purdue's only been an actual good team with Brees (who wasn't a star recruit - but heavily because of injuries more so than accomplishments) and Orton (a VERY highly rated recruit). Yeah, we had a good offense when we had a guy like Curtis Painter - but if you actually look at those teams, we racked up stats on bad teams and basically lost/got shut down by anyone good.

So you had guys like Painter - who were good game managers for the most part (and why he lasted a few years on a depth chart in the NFL) and could perform against average/below average teams. We certainly haven't been doing that.

However, on the flip side, our overall talent level is SO much worse than it was with Painter. You can certainly point out that Hope was at least going .500ish - with not that much more talent. But a QB is only going to do so much when the offensive line is a disaster, the receivers aren't that great, etc. Go back to Danny Etling - that kid's career as a Boilermaker was over as soon as that redshirt was pulled. He was thrown into a lion's den. Now, you could argue that if he started the following year, things may not have gone well then either - but starting against MAC/1-AA teams vs. the meat of your Big Ten schedule is quite different. I think he was ruined by that decision/situation (made by Hazell), not necessarily because he regressed because of actual coaching.

 

[indianphil]

Act of God.

 

[pboiler18]

They need an AD who understands recruiting. Purdue's inability to recruit across the major revenue sports is maddening. They have to figure out how to attract some of the stronger Indiana kids.

Burke's double dumb "futuristic recruiting plan" under Hope was as silly as it gets. Hazell's initial plan to run a power offense was equally stupid. How about we just look for someone who is bright and humble? That is the Purdue way.

It wasn't Burke's idea to recruit Florida/the South and forsake Indiana. That was Hope's. Burke was just trying to support his idiotic hire.

 

[nat100]

It wasn't Burke's idea to recruit Florida/the South and forsake Indiana. That was Hope's. Burke was just trying to support his idiotic hire.

Tiller relied heavily on the south as well. He just didn't announce it.

Hazell had started to follow as well. Purdue can't win recruiting battles in B1G territory

 

[SDBoiler1]

Tiller relied heavily on the south as well. He just didn't announce it.

Hazell had started to follow as well. Purdue can't win recruiting battles in B1G territory

Yes they can, if the program starts winning again. Purdue beat out ND for guys like Kerrigan and Michigan for Stuuuuu. Purdue can recruit in BIG territory with a coach who knows what he's doing and with a program that wins. Purdue will not be OSU or Michigan, but it can be much more competitive than it has been since Hope took over for Tiller.

 

[nat100]

Yes they can, if the program starts winning again. Purdue beat out ND for guys like Kerrigan and Michigan for Stuuuuu. Purdue can recruit in BIG territory with a coach who knows what he's doing and with a program that wins. Purdue will not be OSU or Michigan, but it can be much more competitive than it has been since Hope took over for Tiller.

Even hope was decently competitive toward the end.

Kerrigan wasn't a battle to sign. Stu was. As for tiller, he also benefitted from nd going through a downturn and msu being a ninentity. It's more than just winning, it's who else is in the B1G

 

[Wheels Of Steel]

The first thing we need in place is an AD with a recognizable name and track record (NFL experience and contacts preferred). Second, we need a Football Coach and Staff that can capitalize on Purdue's most significant recruiting asset - Success at QB position at the NFL level. We are not going to compete with OSU, UM, ND for 4 and 5 star non-skill position players. If I was a top High School QB, RB, WR prospect and Purdue's coaching staff ran a Pro-Style Offense that emphasized getting me ready to play in the NFL, I would strongly consider Purdue over the "3 Yards and a Cloud of Dust" universities like Michigan and Ohio State.

Throughout Purdue's history, when we were competitive it wasn't because we were knocking defensive linemen 3 yards off the line of scrimmage. We were successful using our skills, intelligence and guile with a pass-oriented attack. The football field is 53 yards wide - run an offense that makes the defense spread out and cover all of it and we have a decent chance of winning against anyone.

A football field is 53 1/3 yards wide - don't forget that extra 12 inches we can exploit!

 

[lbodel]

Even hope was decently competitive toward the end.

Kerrigan wasn't a battle to sign. Stu was. As for tiller, he also benefitted from nd going through a downturn and msu being a ninentity. It's more than just winning, it's who else is in the B1G

I mean everything is somewhat cyclical. MSU was ranked top 5 when we played them in 98, so I wouldn't say they were irrelevant at the time. Illinois used to be quite good too not too long ago, but have dropped off significantly - which you'd think would open up Illinois more.

If you look at our rosters under Tiller, most were Midwest, followed by supplements from Texas mostly and a few here and there. We cherrypicked good recruits nationally, but filled in with three star types in the Midwest.

 

[pboiler18]

I mean everything is somewhat cyclical. MSU was ranked top 5 when we played them in 98, so I wouldn't say they were irrelevant at the time. Illinois used to be quite good too not too long ago, but have dropped off significantly - which you'd think would open up Illinois more.

If you look at our rosters under Tiller, most were Midwest, followed by supplements from Texas mostly and a few here and there. We cherrypicked good recruits nationally, but filled in with three star types in the Midwest.

IMO, we have been missing out on some of those midwest 3 stars that blow up (like Kerrigan, Spencer, Short, Neal....etc. etc.) and that has been what has hurt us the most. If we were winning 6-8 games a year we'd be nabbing these guys. Hope didn't nab them because his eyes were elsewhere. Hazell can't nab them because he can't win (and I don't think he's a good talent evaluator).

Crap, if i'm a 3 star OL in state or nearby...i'm going to go to IU. They have several prospects that have been or will be drafted since Wilson has been there.

 

[PaBoiler78]

I think Malone has done a better job of suiting the offensive style to the players he has, hence Bilal Marshall being used in a wildcat formation this year. Really, a great idea with his size and running ability along with his passing skills as a former QB. I think Malone was an instant upgrade that alone could lead to 1 or 2 wins that Shoop would never have gotten the program this year.

In terms of QB recruitment, I haven't seen a huge dropoff under Hazell but the issue has been development of the position. That, once again, lays at the feet of John Shoop. Purdue has never really landed highly rated QB's other than Kyle Orton and Brandon Hance. The recruitment of two high ability QB's in 3 years under Hazell (Blough and Sindelar) tells me Hazell has the ability to get some good prospects at the QB position but the issue of developing them in the QB room fell on Shoop.

Your comments about OSU and Michigan are probably 10-15 years out of date. OSU, since Tressel left, is about as spread offense you can be without going the route of Baylor or Oregon. Michigan plays a balanced pro-style offense the lends itself to play-action and hitting the TE's in seams and flats. The only teams I would consider to be close to your '3 yards and a cloud of dust' reference in the B1G right now would be Wisconsin and MSU...and in fact Wisconsin threw the ball about as much as anyone in the conference last year.

At this point in the rebuild, it wouldn't matter if Purdue was running Oregon's offense, the wishbone, or the triple option. The issues weren't the style of offense, it was the person putting it in place (John Shoop) and the inability to execute it properly due to a number of different factors (over complicating simple ideas, placing too much post-snap on the QB's, not using personnel correctly, etc.).

Malone has to be better than Shoop for sure, but the wildcat? I hate it , a true gimmicky name for something you know what's going to happen.

 

[motkaboo]

Yes they can, if the program starts winning again. Purdue beat out ND for guys like Kerrigan and Michigan for Stuuuuu. Purdue can recruit in BIG territory with a coach who knows what he's doing and with a program that wins. Purdue will not be OSU or Michigan, but it can be much more competitive than it has been since Hope took over for Tiller.

ND didn't recruit or offer Kerrigan

 

[New Pal Boiler]

ND didn't recruit or offer Kerrigan

He might have been thinking of Ryan Baker, who ND did offer.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Malone has to be better than Shoop for sure, but the wildcat? I hate it , a true gimmicky name for something you know what's going to happen.

Honestly, did you even bother to read the explanation? Bilal Marshall is a former high school QB who played some at the position here at Purdue. Go back and read my explanation in detail and realize it isn't some RB or WR running it. It is a player who is a legitimate threat to throw the football downfield.

 

[nat100]

Honestly, did you even bother to read the explanation? Bilal Marshall is a former high school QB who played some at the position here at Purdue. Go back and read my explanation in detail and realize it isn't some RB or WR running it. It is a player who is a legitimate threat to throw the football downfield.

It's a 10 year old gimmick. Coordinators know how to defend it.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

It's a 10 year old gimmick. Coordinators know how to defend it.

So I guess any offense that has been around for 10 years should be abandoned because every coordinator knows how to defend it? I guess Georgia Tech and Army would be well advised to abandon the triple option then huh? Or maybe Wazzou should abandon their Air Raid? We should look for a futuristic coordinator that could run this offense (A-11).

 

[nat100]

So I guess any offense that has been around for 10 years should be abandoned because every coordinator knows how to defend it? I guess Georgia Tech and Army would be well advised to abandon the triple option then huh? Or maybe Wazzou should abandon their Air Raid? We should look for a futuristic coordinator that could run this offense (A-11).

View embedded media

An entire offense is one thing. A gimmick that has been played to death is something different

 

[lbodel]

IMO, we have been missing out on some of those midwest 3 stars that blow up (like Kerrigan, Spencer, Short, Neal....etc. etc.) and that has been what has hurt us the most. If we were winning 6-8 games a year we'd be nabbing these guys. Hope didn't nab them because his eyes were elsewhere. Hazell can't nab them because he can't win (and I don't think he's a good talent evaluator).

Crap, if i'm a 3 star OL in state or nearby...i'm going to go to IU. They have several prospects that have been or will be drafted since Wilson has been there.

We're missing out on 3 stars in general. A majority of our team are 2 star recruits. The "star" recruiting system is certainly far from perfect, but look at it as a gamble...

A 5 star has a very good chance of turning out to be a very solid player. A 4 star has a pretty good chance of being a very solid player. A 3 star has a decent chance of turning out to be a good player. A 2 star has an ok chance of being an ok player. That kind of scale.

I've preached on this, but Purdue's problem isn't necessarily their complete starting 11 on one side of the ball or the other - it's depth. In football, you don't play 22 guys for the game on offense and defense combined. And because we have so little depth, it's no coincidence that we tend to fall apart as the season progresses - even against not great teams.

We don't necessarily need to load up on 4 and 5 stars - it'd be nice to have 2-3 per class, but hell we don't even need double digits on our teams. But you can't have a majority of your team be 2 star talent and think you're going to compete.

 

[PalmCoastFl]

Lets face it, we are who we are! The only way we turn this around is find an innovative coach that can bring a "TILLER" style offense to Purdue. Were not going to get mostly 3 star and a few 4 star to compete talent for talent with the big boys! Sorry, a "Gimmicky" offense is our equalizer to compete. Atleast for the "SHORT TERM", until we can gain more W'S than L"S!

 

[nat100]

Lets face it, we are who we are! The only way we turn this around is find an innovative coach that can bring a "TILLER" style offense to Purdue. Were not going to get mostly 3 star and a few 4 star to compete talent for talent with the big boys! Sorry, a "Gimmicky" offense is our equalizer to compete. Atleast for the "SHORT TERM", until we can gain more W'S than L"S!

Air raid is not a gimmicky offense. It's different and has proven to be innovative.

Lining a wr (regardless of prior position) up at qb is a gimmick. It's a trick to try to throw the other team off guard. It is absurd at the college level unless the wildcat is an absolute game breaker. Otherwise, you are running the spread option, which every team has seen

 

[FirstDownB]

Act of God.

-Deadly/paralyzing viral outbreak that attacks only elite (3 star and above) athletes
-NCAA loophole that allows only Purdue student athletes to sign endorsement deals
-Major earthquake opens up enormous fault lines around every B1G campus not in WL, swallowing up entire football stadiums and facilities
-Zombie apocalypse

All of the above

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Air raid is not a gimmicky offense. It's different and has proven to be innovative.

Lining a wr (regardless of prior position) up at qb is a gimmick. It's a trick to try to throw the other team off guard. It is absurd at the college level unless the wildcat is an absolute game breaker. Otherwise, you are running the spread option, which every team has seen

Ok, so you said it yourself right there. Purdue is having a WR/QB run a version of the spread option, which has been proven successful. It isn't a gimmick, as you state, since the spread option has been found to be successful (so successful that NFL teams are implementing it's uses). It is meant, as you stated, to catch the opposing defense off guard. If Purdue was having Markell Jones run it, I would be extremely hesitant but because Bilal Marshall is a legitimate threat to throw (and throw on the run), it can be used without having to leave the QB on the field and essentially play 11 on 10.

 

[nat100]

Ok, so you said it yourself right there. Purdue is having a WR/QB run a version of the spread option, which has been proven successful. It isn't a gimmick, as you state, since the spread option has been found to be successful (so successful that NFL teams are implementing it's uses). It is meant, as you stated, to catch the opposing defense off guard. If Purdue was having Markell Jones run it, I would be extremely hesitant but because Bilal Marshall is a legitimate threat to throw (and throw on the run), it can be used without having to leave the QB on the field and essentially play 11 on 10.

It isn't our base offense. It's a trick play

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

It isn't our base offense. It's a trick play

If the base offense is based out of the shotgun, which it sounds like it might (I honestly don't know) and is included in the offensive package for use on a regular basis, it is then part of the base offense. This isn't a single 'trick play' like you mention a hook and ladder or statue of liberty type play.

Would you consider a goal line package where Purdue lines a fullback in front of the tailback to be a 'gimmick' and a 'trick offense'?

 

[indianphil]

Earlier I posted Act of God. Having thought about it, maybe =/-$300M spread across players, coaches and facilities over the next 5-6 years. We would also have to accept some sort of probation (gladly) from the NCAA. They do the probation thing every 10 years at OSU and USC.

 

[nat100]

i can't remember if they ran read option with blough or not. I know they did with Appleby.

I get why you like it, I just don't think Marshall adds enough to make it worthwhile. If we he someone that was a true game breaker doing it, or did it when hunt and mostert were here, that makes sense

With Marshall just seems like a waste of practice time. Let him learn to be a wr and actually play snaps there

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

i can't remember if they ran read option with blough or not. I know they did with Appleby.

I get why you like it, I just don't think Marshall adds enough to make it worthwhile. If we he someone that was a true game breaker doing it, or did it when hunt and mostert were here, that makes sense

With Marshall just seems like a waste of practice time. Let him learn to be a wr and actually play snaps there

Understandable but Hunt or Mostert wouldn't have provided enough of a throwing threat. The defense would have lined up 10 in the box. At this point, Purdue needs to find its best playmakers and get them on the field in situations that they can help the offense or defense get in to winning situations throughout the game. If getting Marshall snaps at QB in the wildcat does that, Purdue needs to get him on the field in those situations.

 

[PalmCoastFl]

Air raid is not a gimmicky offense. It's different and has proven to be innovative.

Lining a wr (regardless of prior position) up at qb is a gimmick. It's a trick to try to throw the other team off guard. It is absurd at the college level unless the wildcat is an absolute game breaker. Otherwise, you are running the spread option, which every team has seen

Everybody sees it, yet WSU had great success with it last year! Most teams still can't stop Boise either! Spread is a great equalizer when you can develop a good QB that can read the defense's! Come to think of it IU did pretty well with it the past 2 years! All starts with the QB!!!

 

[PU52Chevy]

Time, Patience and 110% Support......

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Everybody sees it, yet WSU had great success with it last year! Most teams still can't stop Boise either! Spread is a great equalizer when you can develop a good QB that can read the defense's! Come to think of it IU did pretty well with it the past 2 years! All starts with the QB!!!

Nah! Air raid schmair raid! Let's keep pounding it up the gut, with our "physical" and "veteran" offensive line!

 

[ghostoffatjack]

1) a Head Coach who can recruit and 2) a Head Coach who can coach the team to a winning season...over the past 3 1/2 years we painfully had neither!

 

[pboiler18]

1) a Head Coach who can recruit and 2) a Head Coach who can coach the team to a winning season...over the past 3 1/2 years we painfully had neither!

over the past 9 years it's happened once. It's not just this coach....