What does painter need to do better?

[Summy1]

What does painter need to do better in order to land these big recruits? From what I read, he does a good job of visiting players. Purdue was ranked all of last season but so were some other schools I guess? Would it make a difference if Purdue could make a couple of deep tournament runs?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

What does painter need to do better in order to land these big recruits? From what I read, he does a good job of visiting players. Purdue was ranked all of last season but so were some other schools I guess? Would it make a difference if Purdue could make a couple of deep tournament runs?

He needs a deep tourney run this year, because it will likely be a few years before he has a team this good again.

 

[cprh9u]

What does painter need to do better in order to land these big recruits? From what I read, he does a good job of visiting players. Purdue was ranked all of last season but so were some other schools I guess? Would it make a difference if Purdue could make a couple of deep tournament runs?

It's not a lack of work or desire. I don't like Painter, but I think he works plenty hard at recruiting.

It would definitely help if he had a tourney win since 2012. A deep run would make recruits feel better, surely, but I still don't know if it would be enough. At the end of the day, big time recruits outside of 2007 (almost 10 years ago!!) and Biggie (thank you Roosevelt) don't want to play for Painter. Maybe it's because he can't get it done in March, maybe it's his personality (my guess) or his offensive "Move, move!" strategy. Who knows, but being able to sell top recruits is a huge part of the D1 coaches job. We may have a decent team again this year, maybe in the 3-5 range in the B1G and a 5th - 6th seed, but odds are very strong that we are 0-1 or 1-1 in the NCAA's based on Painter's history. We have no playmaking guards thanks to lackluster recruiting and since guard play wins in March, it's a pretty good bet we won't win in March unless C Edwards blows up and takes the everyone by surprise.

Keep extending Painter if you are content with another 11 years of mediocrity. I'd say a league co-title and 2 sweet 16's over the next 11 years, should Painter stay that long, is pretty likely. Otherwise take a chance and see if someone else can elevate this program. I'd certainly take a chance if I were the AD.

 

[*4purdue*]

He needs a deep tourney run this year, because it will likely be a few years before he has a team this good again.

I agree, but he needs to be a much better bench coach as well. How many games did we blow huge leads in last year. It was pretty much a forgone conclusion that's how we would lose in the tourney. Blowing huge leads & not being able to correct it says alot. He showed panic in the tourney & moved VE to the point for the first time all year in the last 8 min. He's always been very stubborn to change, much like GK was, but even more so. You have to be able to adjust to be a good coach & he hasn't shown any ability to do that.

 

[BoiledSteel]

He's always been very stubborn to change

Sorry but I 110% disagree. You can see based off of the type of player he is going after that his philosophy is changing.

Also different people ran the point because no one could break a freakin press. That had more to do with it than anything else.

 

[skfboiler]

The reason Purdue has not been able to sign 5 star or even high 4 star players is not due Matt Painter's recruiting skills. I think Painter is doing all he can legally to get these guys, but in my opinion I just think its the lack of a basketball tradition that Purdue has overall. Purdue has not been to the Final Four since 1980. Prior to that it was 1968. Since 1980 they have been to the Elite 8 game only 3 times. These players want to go to teams that has a reputation of getting to the Final 4 consistently.

 

[hoosierdog1]

Bullshit he needs to tell them what they want to hear.Just like most of the other coaches do !!

 

[mathboy]

Perhaps he needs to cry a little bit on national TV.

 

[nagemj02]

He needs a personality transplant. I don't think anyone will ever accuse him of being "charismatic". (tic)

 

[BoiledSteel]

Bullshit he needs to tell them what they want to hear.Just like most of the other coaches do !!

And how do you know he isn't? Are you part of the recruiting process? And gee, if most other coaches do it, those coaches also lost a recruit to Izzo.

 

[Summy1]

I too think some deep tournament runs would help a lot. MSU is a team that is known for this. Recruits must like it? Being in the top 25 all year is not enough. Hope Purdue makes a deep run this season.

 

[DrEss]

Recruit guys Izzo is not interested in, or, don't start recruiting kids until Izzo has completed that year's recruiting class.

 

[youngtimer]

I think Painter's style of play prevents him from getting the big time players. If he played up tempo and played aggressive on defense with some pressing and running, players would be attracted to that. Half court offense and burning 30 seconds before a shot is boring and other coaches recruiting against Purdue point that out.

 

[*4purdue*]

Sorry but I 110% disagree. You can see based off of the type of player he is going after that his philosophy is changing.

Also different people ran the point because no one could break a freakin press. That had more to do with it than anything else.

We couldn't break the press in the Iowa game either... Along with countless others. My point is, why didn't he try it sooner, I was beating the "play VE at the point drum" all season. You don't wait until the tourney to try it. CMP is hell bent to win playing our game and makes no adjustments until the game is basically over. He usually doesn't press until we are down 20 with under 5 to go. Teams are going to take away what you do best and he can't seem to adjust to that. Which is why we see the same mistakes over and over.

 

[nagemj02]

I think Painter's style of play prevents him from getting the big time players. If he played up tempo and played aggressive on defense with some pressing and running, players would be attracted to that. Half court offense and burning 30 seconds before a shot is boring and other coaches recruiting against Purdue point that out.

To be fair, most of the time in the halfcourt he's not commanding players to shoot it after so many passes or after "x" of amount of time (i.e. 30 seconds: they usually shoot it earlier than that), but boy does he love to go that style once Purdue has a lead and there's 5-8 minutes left to play and I think that's what many of us dislike about his late-game approach with the lead. Instead of continuing to take good or open shots with 10, 15, or even 20 seconds on the shot-clock, he has them milk it only to end up with mostly (not always, but mostly) crappy rushed or contested shots with 3 seconds or less left on the shot-clock.

He even had his team in this year's alumni game do that (it was close, lol) and many fans actually started booing him, myself included. It's a freakin' alumni game! Let them shoot the ball whenever they want!

 

[bonefish1]

The reason Purdue has not been able to sign 5 star or even high 4 star players is not due Matt Painter's recruiting skills. I think Painter is doing all he can legally to get these guys, but in my opinion I just think its the lack of a basketball tradition that Purdue has overall. Purdue has not been to the Final Four since 1980. Prior to that it was 1968. Since 1980 they have been to the Elite 8 game only 3 times. These players want to go to teams that has a reputation of getting to the Final 4 consistently.

No, that has little to do with it. If it was all about tradition, Notre Dame would sign the No 1 football recruiting class every year.
It has to do with the coaches ability to sell the recruit on the opportunity.
Sure, it doesn't hurt to have tradition, but iu has a lot of tradition and it doesn't seem to be a big factor for them.
Tradition in college sports is a 'what have you done for me lately' situation.

 

[bonefish1]

I think Painter's style of play prevents him from getting the big time players. If he played up tempo and played aggressive on defense with some pressing and running, players would be attracted to that. Half court offense and burning 30 seconds before a shot is boring and other coaches recruiting against Purdue point that out.

I agree with his style of play but my disagreement is that he focuses on D too much at the expense of offense.
Most of your top recruits are going to be offensive minded, not defensive. Of course, guys need to be able to play D, but selling your program on defense (like Purdue does), probably hurts in recruiting top talent.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

The reason Purdue has not been able to sign 5 star or even high 4 star players is not due Matt Painter's recruiting skills. I think Painter is doing all he can legally to get these guys, but in my opinion I just think its the lack of a basketball tradition that Purdue has overall. Purdue has not been to the Final Four since 1980. Prior to that it was 1968. Since 1980 they have been to the Elite 8 game only 3 times. These players want to go to teams that has a reputation of getting to the Final 4 consistently.

Unfortunately, I think it's only been twice since 1980; '94 and '00.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

No, that has little to do with it. If it was all about tradition, Notre Dame would sign the No 1 football recruiting class every year.
It has to do with the coaches ability to sell the recruit on the opportunity.
Sure, it doesn't hurt to have tradition, but iu has a lot of tradition and it doesn't seem to be a big factor for them.
Tradition in college sports is a 'what have you done for me lately' situation.

Good Lord. You have NO IDEA what makes one recruit go to a school over another. Tradition most certainly plays a part in it and IU is an example of that, they get good recruiting classes but are coached by a moron so that offsets the class.

 

[Kesselschmiede]

I think Painter's style of play prevents him from getting the big time players. If he played up tempo and played aggressive on defense with some pressing and running, players would be attracted to that. Half court offense and burning 30 seconds before a shot is boring and other coaches recruiting against Purdue point that out.

You have never watched a Purdue game have you. The offense is in constant movement and was top tier in offensive stats last season. And you have no idea what other coaches point out, none. Seriously you forum coaches are ridiculous.

 

[lbodel]

It's not a lack of work or desire. I don't like Painter, but I think he works plenty hard at recruiting.

It would definitely help if he had a tourney win since 2012. A deep run would make recruits feel better, surely, but I still don't know if it would be enough. At the end of the day, big time recruits outside of 2007 (almost 10 years ago!!) and Biggie (thank you Roosevelt) don't want to play for Painter. Maybe it's because he can't get it done in March, maybe it's his personality (my guess) or his offensive "Move, move!" strategy. Who knows, but being able to sell top recruits is a huge part of the D1 coaches job. We may have a decent team again this year, maybe in the 3-5 range in the B1G and a 5th - 6th seed, but odds are very strong that we are 0-1 or 1-1 in the NCAA's based on Painter's history. We have no playmaking guards thanks to lackluster recruiting and since guard play wins in March, it's a pretty good bet we won't win in March unless C Edwards blows up and takes the everyone by surprise.

Keep extending Painter if you are content with another 11 years of mediocrity. I'd say a league co-title and 2 sweet 16's over the next 11 years, should Painter stay that long, is pretty likely. Otherwise take a chance and see if someone else can elevate this program. I'd certainly take a chance if I were the AD.

This is a very misleading statement about recruiting. First off, none of those guys were 5 star recruits. Secondly, a guy like Robbie Hummel was #75 in the country (Scott Martin was #76). Painter's gotten several recruits that are similarly ranked, or ranked above those two, since (I believe it's around 10 four star recruits). Third, to give Barnes the credit for Swanigan - do you realize how many commitments are based upon connections? To basically take away any credit to Painter with what you're saying shows your bias there.

 

[lbodel]

I agree with his style of play but my disagreement is that he focuses on D too much at the expense of offense.
Most of your top recruits are going to be offensive minded, not defensive. Of course, guys need to be able to play D, but selling your program on defense (like Purdue does), probably hurts in recruiting top talent.

Who says that is what they focus on with recruits? I think it's our own fans that focus on it more than our coaches. We were top 3 in the conference in offense last year. You're the one perpetuating a false narrative that we don't care about offense. How do you finish top 3 in the conference if you aren't offensive minded?

 

[nat100]

Who says that is what they focus on with recruits? I think it's our own fans that focus on it more than our coaches. We were top 3 in the conference in offense last year. You're the one perpetuating a false narrative that we don't care about offense. How do you finish top 3 in the conference if you aren't offensive minded?

I assume the poster means guard friendly offense when he says "offensive oriented." Painter does need to improve the perimeter play if he wants to make a run. We havent had anyone that can get points when a play breaks down or the clock winds down since Moore. Hopefully Carsen can be that guy, but we need more.

 

[lbodel]

I assume the poster means guard friendly offense when he says "offensive oriented." Painter does need to improve the perimeter play if he wants to make a run. We havent had anyone that can get points when a play breaks down or the clock winds down since Moore. Hopefully Carsen can be that guy, but we need more.

I totally understand your point but 100% do not believe it has anything to do with that person complaining we are defense oriented. I also do not think it's Painter's philosophy to have that (as that posted implies), we've just been working with the personnel we have and their strengths/weaknesses.

Also, Lewis Jackson?

 

[nat100]

I totally understand your point but 100% do not believe it has anything to do with that person complaining we are defense oriented. I also do not think it's Painter's philosophy to have that (as that posted implies), we've just been working with the personnel we have and their strengths/weaknesses.

Also, Lewis Jackson?

Yeah, kinda. We definitely could use someone like him again, but he was limited outside of 10 feet

 

[lbodel]

Yeah, kinda. We definitely could use someone like him again, but he was limited outside of 10 feet

But again, back to reality. Do you realize how few point guards are the total package?

Look at Melo Trimble at Maryland. The guy is hyped up as this amazing PG - he shot 30% from 3 - precisely what LJ shot. LJ shot 50% overall from the field, Trimble 41%.

Not saying LJ is the same as Melo, but it's a pretty clear double standard that our fans have of our own players. Basically everyone clamors for an NBA lottery pick at all positions with the standards of this board.

 

[nat100]

But again, back to reality. Do you realize how few point guards are the total package?

Look at Melo Trimble at Maryland. The guy is hyped up as this amazing PG - he shot 30% from 3 - precisely what LJ shot. LJ shot 50% overall from the field, Trimble 41%.

Not saying LJ is the same as Melo, but it's a pretty clear double standard that our fans have of our own players. Basically everyone clamors for an NBA lottery pick at all positions with the standards of this board.

My original point was to guards in general. I would gladly take another Keaton Grant.

 

[Inspector100]

What does painter need to do better in order to land these big recruits?...............

I think the big elephant in the room is Nike. Purdue basketball has to develop a better relationship with Nike to get the players we want. I am a firm believer that Nike has a large say in where these players go when they are selecting a school. If I am wrong, it will not be the first time.

But let's look at La Lemiere. Nike is a sponsor of that prep school. Why does a 9-12 private school have to be sponsored? Does that mean Nike decides who goes to La Lemiere to play basketball? And does that player get free room and board as well as tuition? Who pays those bills? Can the parents afford all of this? La Lemiere controls who comes to visit their students and it appears to me that Nike controls them. Is the Purdue athletic department a welcome visitor? I don't doubt that our AD must get involved sometime to set Purdue policy for team staffs, and work the business side of things to augment needed relationships.

This should stir the troops.

 

[DrEss]

There is way too much involved in Recruiting these days. I frankly do not know how Head Coaches can deal with all these necessary to be successful relationships. No wonder the schools with the endless "resources" seem to prosper the most.

 

[boilerpt]

Win when it matters.

 

[indianphil]

Pay better. Forget academic integrity. Little things! TIC

 

[ghostoffatjack]

He need a closer on his staff to seal the deal with these recruits....sometimes you have to sacrifice a better recruiter for a better coach and I agree he may have to say things he doesn't feel comfortable saying regarding playing time, etc! JMO

 

[cgnops]

...I agree he may have to say things he doesn't feel comfortable saying regarding playing time, etc! JMO

This seems pretty important to me. Look at our best recruiting class under Painter, the Baby Boliers in 2006, keeping in mind we graduated 3 starters after 2005/2006 season. In 2007 we started (or gave nearly starters minutes, i.e. >20 min/game) to 3 of the 4 big name recruits of that class (Moore, Hummel, Martin -only started 8 games, but had good minutes). JaJuan Johnson avgd 16 min/game that season, he was rail thin, but started 17 games that seasom. We all know Martin felt slighted and left, but he did play meaningful minutes, Hummel just outperformed him across the board.

Which position will be open for starters minutes next year? Hopefully Biggies, but other than that? I really hope Biggie gets his name called in the first round of the draft after our final four run this year, that should help us recruit. But its gotta be hard to sell coming in and battling for minutes against our upperclassmen in Haas, Biggie, VEd, Cline/Mathias, PJ(/CEd).

 

[boilersallthewaynow]

What does painter need to do better in order to land these big recruits? From what I read, he does a good job of visiting players. Purdue was ranked all of last season but so were some other schools I guess? Would it make a difference if Purdue could make a couple of deep tournament runs?

Everything !

 

[Summy1]

What is the biggest problem? Did we get our hopes built up too high thinking we would land a big time recruit in 2017? Did different media outlets like Gold and Black continue to talk about how we are in the hunt for these big name players and then they fall through and leave us disappointed? Not looking good right now.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

He's third best in virtually any performance category (wins, titles, draft picks, etc. ) since becoming head coach behind only MSU and Wisky. That's historically as good as anyone at Purdue.

 

[nagemj02]

He needs a deep tourney run this year, because it will likely be a few years before he has a team this good again.

Next season's (2017-2018) team can be a strong one as well (assuming Swanigan is the only major player that exits after this season) but after that, overall team strength and talent-level is completely unknown and highly questionable at this point in time.

 

[cprh9u]

This is a very misleading statement about recruiting. First off, none of those guys were 5 star recruits. Secondly, a guy like Robbie Hummel was #75 in the country (Scott Martin was #76). Painter's gotten several recruits that are similarly ranked, or ranked above those two, since (I believe it's around 10 four star recruits). Third, to give Barnes the credit for Swanigan - do you realize how many commitments are based upon connections? To basically take away any credit to Painter with what you're saying shows your bias there.

Why are you are listing the lower ranked guys in the class? Smooge was like 35 and JJ around 40. Those are big time recruits that Painter doesn't normally land. Robbie and Martin were our 3rd and 4th highest ranked guys in that class. In Painters other 11 classes, I think he has 3 guys ranked higher than #75 where Robbie was (TJ, Biggie, Stephens off the top of my head). 2007 was a great recruiting class: 2 top 40 guys (aka Big Time Recruits) and a few other very good compliments (1 who became great). Pretty easy to follow isn't it?

As for commitments on connections, Painter obviously needs more. Butler must have some as a program, because no matter who the coach is, they get great talent, and more importantly, develop them. Many other coaches must have great connections as they land better talent than us (often over us)... guys like Mack, Stansbury, Izzo, Crean, Pearl, Alford, Romar, Hamilton, Smart, Larranga, etc.

 

[cprh9u]

He's third best in virtually any performance category (wins, titles, draft picks, etc. ) since becoming head coach behind only MSU and Wisky. That's historically as good as anyone at Purdue.

What? Not even close since 2005 when Painter took over. Excluding MSU and Wisky who are clearly better:

Purdue- 1 shared B1G title, 5 nba players (Landry, Hummel, Moore, JJ, AJH) 2 sweet 16's in 11 years under Painter

OSU- 3 outright B1G titles, 2 shared (5-1), 10 nba players (10-5), 2 final 4's, 3 elite 8's, 5 sweet 16's (5-2 + advancing much further)
IU (in only 8 years under Crean)- 5 nba players (tied), 2 outright B1G titles (2-1), 3 sweet 16's (3-2) in 3 less years
Michigan (in only 7 years under Beilein)- 1 shared B1G title and 1 outright (2-1), 6 NBA draft picks (6-5), 1 final 4 and 1 elite 8 in 4 less years

So Painter is a solid 6th in the categories you named since coming to West Lafayette. Top 6 is pretty sweet, eh? Oh crap, Turgeon does have a 2nd and 3rd place finish in 2 years in the B1G to go along with a S16 already. He may catch up soon! But don't lose heart, Painter does have better results than those mighty Nittany Lions, the awesome Hawkeyes, those pesky Golden Gophers and the big bad Wildcats of Northwestern, who can't even make it to the NCAA's. Haha Wildcats, we are clearly the superior team!

 

[nagemj02]

This seems pretty important to me. Look at our best recruiting class under Painter, the Baby Boliers in 2006, keeping in mind we graduated 3 starters after 2005/2006 season. In 2007 we started (or gave nearly starters minutes, i.e. >20 min/game) to 3 of the 4 big name recruits of that class (Moore, Hummel, Martin -only started 8 games, but had good minutes). JaJuan Johnson avgd 16 min/game that season, he was rail thin, but started 17 games that seasom. We all know Martin felt slighted and left, but he did play meaningful minutes, Hummel just outperformed him across the board.

Which position will be open for starters minutes next year? Hopefully Biggies, but other than that? I really hope Biggie gets his name called in the first round of the draft after our final four run this year, that should help us recruit. But its gotta be hard to sell coming in and battling for minutes against our upperclassmen in Haas, Biggie, VEd, Cline/Mathias, PJ(/CEd).

The "Baby Boilers of the 2000's" was the 2007 class, not 2006. The '06-'07 team had two senior starters exhaust their eligibility (Carl Landry, David Teague) and a third starter (junior-to-be Gordon Watt) was dismissed from the team just prior to the start of the '07-'08 season. Sophomore-to-be guard Chris Kramer was the only full-time starter returning. Sophomore-to-be Keaton Grant and senior-to-be Tarrance Crump had split all of the starts at the 1 between them in '06-'07.