Trent Sisley to iu

[Katscratch]

Those dynamics do exist but I think you are missing the main thing, which is culture. The culture at IU sucks and has for a couple of decades now. Look at Purdue and you will see that culture is the main thing Painter has built and strives to continue improving upon.

Not missing it -- I agree. Look at the culture that Cignetti, Moren, Yeagley have established for IU's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th highest profile programs; that's how a coach connects great resources with a great team culture.

I was responding to the contention that IU basketball is a sleeping giant. I believe that is true because of the dynamics that I listed and you agree with me about.

Poprudy responded that the list of dynamics that I cited were a joke and evidence of denial.

 

[Katscratch]

They just don't get it.

"They" lol.

I think you should reread the words I chose and not assume I was stating something that I did not state.

 

[Katscratch]

Crazy that if they had lost one more game in the B1G they would have been 8th.

Bingo.

If my team goes 14-6 or better it's an excellent year in conference whether that's a first or fifth place finish.

 

[Poprudy]

So I cited that IU has:

• Resources (aka, money)
• Name recognition,
• A huge fan base,
• A huge alumni base, and
• Fan interest even when the team is meh.

You think that saying those things exist is a joke and "in denial?" Not sure why. Just because it hasn't translated to enough success doesn't make those dynamics untrue.

You do have those items. That doesn't make you a "sleeping giant" if you haven't been one in a very long time.

4 out 5 of the things you said were about fans and your worst enemy is your own fans.

Don't be naive and believe you're the only program with money.

 

[Poprudy]

"They" lol.

I think you should reread the words I chose and not assume I was stating something that I did not state.

"They" as you're another crazy IU fan. You believe what you typed to be true. You're here to promote your program and you seem to stand by your words but they firmly equate to nothing.

 

[Katscratch]

I think you should reread the words I chose and not assume I was stating something that I did not state.

You do have those items.

You believe what you typed to be true.

 

[proudopete]

Not missing it -- I agree. Look at the culture that Cignetti, Moren, Yeagley have established for IU's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th highest profile programs; that's how a coach connects great resources with a great team culture.

I was responding to the contention that IU basketball is a sleeping giant. I believe that is true because of the dynamics that I listed and you agree with me about.

Poprudy responded that the list of dynamics that I cited were a joke and evidence of denial.

I think you’re really missing the point. Your list does exist but that doesn’t make them all positives. The fans run the show there when it should be the coach.

Instead of getting a good coach who builds culture, the administration has decided to throw money at players in an effort to win. Think about that for a minute. You’re putting the direction of the program in the hands of guys who wouldn’t even be there if not for the money IU threw at them. How do you think that will go when the winning isn’t happening as planned?

The best thing IU could do is get a coach like Painter or Shaka who builds a program of culture that the players take pride in. It would probably take a few years of struggling to get the culture set but IU fans won’t wait for that and instead demand winning now. Why do they expect winning now? For the exact reasons you listed above which to you means it’s a sleeping giant. Thus the circle of suck continues as no matter the coach or players, IU lacks a culture.

I think a lot of Purdue fans see this clearly and in turn don’t really sweat it when IU spends a fortune on transfers or gets a verbal from a five star kid. IU teams are too much me, me, me, just like the fan base and until that changes, that sleeping giant you hope awakens will continue to sleep.

 

[Katscratch]

I think you’re really missing the point. Your list does exist but that doesn’t make them all positives. The fans run the show there when it should be the coach.

Instead of getting a good coach who builds culture, the administration has decided to throw money at players in an effort to win. Think about that for a minute. You’re putting the direction of the program in the hands of guys who wouldn’t even be there if not for the money IU threw at them. How do you think that will go when the winning isn’t happening as planned?

The best thing IU could do is get a coach like Painter or Shaka who builds a program of culture that the players take pride in. It would probably take a few years of struggling to get the culture set but IU fans won’t wait for that and instead demand winning now. Why do they expect winning now? For the exact reasons you listed above which to you means it’s a sleeping giant. Thus the circle of suck continues as no matter the coach or players, IU lacks a culture.

I think a lot of Purdue fans see this clearly and in turn don’t really sweat it when IU spends a fortune on transfers or gets a verbal from a five star kid. IU teams are too much me, me, me, just like the fan base and until that changes, that sleeping giant you hope awakens will continue to sleep.

All of this is why IU Basketball is a sleeping giant, not an awake giant.

Look at the last ten years' champion programs: Kansas, Duke, UConn, UVA, Baylor, Duke, Nova. Nova is the only outlier and their championship was pre-NIL. All of the others have both winning culture and incredible basketball resources. All of them are big money universities where hoops is king, both financially and in the minds of their fanbase and alumni.

And I'd venture to say that hiring the right leader can change culture reasonably quickly. But a school without resources has a hell of a tough time changing that. Hurley is a hell of a great coach, but it was NIL that made their roster shine last year. Three of their five starters were absolutely NIL acquisitions.

 

[proudopete]

All of this is why IU Basketball is a sleeping giant, not an awake giant.

Look at the last ten years' champion programs: Kansas, Duke, UConn, UVA, Baylor, Duke, Nova. Nova is the only outlier and their championship was pre-NIL. All of the others have both winning culture and incredible basketball resources. All of them are big money universities where hoops is king, both financially and in the minds of their fanbase and alumni.

And I'd venture to say that hiring the right leader can change culture reasonably quickly. But a school without resources has a hell of a tough time changing that. Hurley is a hell of a great coach, but it was NIL that made their roster shine last year. Three of their five starters were absolutely NIL acquisitions.

But IU didn’t hire the right leader to instill a winning culture. They just ponied up a bunch of money and hope players will make the change.

Of course Purdue fans hope IU wins enough to keep woody as we all know he won’t change the culture and until that happens, the true winning will never come.

 

[Katscratch]

But IU didn’t hire the right leader to instill a winning culture. They just ponied up a bunch of money and hope players will make the change.

Of course Purdue fans hope IU wins enough to keep woody as we all know he won’t change the culture and until that happens, the true winning will never come.

Hey; I would rather have Dusty May. But Woody is a full-on IU guy with local/IU guys on staff. I wish he was 15 years younger. IU has a plenty of local ties in the program - trying for a bunch more for next year.

Winning is as winning does. Can Woody instill a "winning culture" in year four? We shall see. A talented roster with some guards that don't suck bad is probably the key to "winning culture." Myles Rice was PAC-12 freshman of the year and was the point guard who led Washington State (of all places) to a 24 win season. There's your winning culture guy.

But this 'bought the team" narrative is overrated. Almost of the national contenders have a team that is mightily supported by a healthy NIL budget.

Tell me which pre-season top ten teams aren't "bought?"

 

[proudopete]

Hey; I would rather have Dusty May. But Woody is a full-on IU guy with local/IU guys on staff. I wish he was 15 years younger. IU has a plenty of local ties in the program - trying for a bunch more for next year.

Winning is as winning does. Can Woody instill a "winning culture" in year four? We shall see. A talented roster with some guards that don't suck bad is probably the key to "winning culture." Myles Rice was PAC-12 freshman of the year and was the point guard who led Washington State (of all places) to a 24 win season. There's your winning culture guy.

But this 'bought the team" narrative is overrated. Almost of the national contenders have a team that is mightily supported by a healthy NIL budget.

Tell me which pre-season top ten teams aren't "bought?"

Um…let me think.

Purdue

 

[Katscratch]

Um…let me think.

Purdue

I was looking at ESPNs early top 25: Purdue was 16 and IU 18. CBS Sports has Purdue at 12 and IU at 18. Don’t believe coaches or writers polls are out yet.

So almost. Official polls aren’t out yet but every top ten team is going to be a roster built by NIL.

Other teams can win with a reasonable, not big time budget, but it’s a lot tougher that way.

 

[proudopete]

I was looking at ESPNs early top 25: Purdue was 16 and IU 18. CBS Sports has Purdue at 12 and IU at 18.

So almost. Official polls aren’t out yet but every top ten team is going to be a roster built by NIL.

Other teams can win with a reasonable, not big time budget, but it’s a lot tougher that way.

List teams that win without a winning culture if you can. That’s what IU is right now. A hodgepodge of players from other schools who were recruited to replace culture guys like Galloway and Cupps.
IU fans can’t stand to lose so instead of building a culture they are trying to bypass the hard work to hopefully instantly win. I would be willing to bet your new portal guys don’t live up to the hype like you posted above.

 

[Poprudy]

I was looking at ESPNs early top 25: Purdue was 16 and IU 18. CBS Sports has Purdue at 12 and IU at 18. Don’t believe coaches or writers polls are out yet.

So almost. Official polls aren’t out yet but every top ten team is going to be a roster built by NIL.

Other teams can win with a reasonable, not big time budget, but it’s a lot tougher.....unless you're Purdue.

I fixed it for you.

 

[Katscratch]

List teams that win without a winning culture if you can. That’s what IU is right now. A hodgepodge of players from other schools who were recruited to replace culture guys like Galloway and Cupps.
IU fans can’t stand to lose so instead of building a culture they are trying to bypass the hard work to hopefully instantly win. I would be willing to bet your new portal guys don’t live up to the hype like you posted above.

I think that it is incredibly helpful to have both a winning culture and big time talent, which will require a strong budget going forward.

I also think that a team without both of those elements can make a run, but that the odds of that happening are far lower. It would likely take an incredibly dominant player that eats up most of the NIL budget; Painter and Purdue developed one last year. Zach Edey made a ton of money playing at Purdue last season.

FWIW, I think that Purdue's NIL budget isn't Kansas or Bama, but it's 'good enough' to sustain a winning program. Purdue is a major P4 school that certainly has resources.

 

[proudopete]

I think that it is incredibly helpful to have both a winning culture and big time talent, which will require a strong budget going forward.

I also think that a team without both of those elements can make a run, but that the odds of that happening are far lower. It would likely take an incredibly dominant player that eats up most of the NIL budget; Painter and Purdue developed one last year. Zach Edey made a ton of money playing at Purdue last season.

FWIW, I think that Purdue's NIL budget isn't Kansas or Bama, but it's 'good enough' to sustain a winning program. Purdue is a major P4 school that certainly has resources.

It’s been nice getting your perspective but I’ll finish up with this.
Nobody is afraid of Ballo and Rice nor any of the other transfers IU signed. Same coach and same culture mixed with okay guys as mercenaries isn’t creating any fear in the B1G.

 

[Poprudy]

I think that that it is necessary to have both a winning culture and big time talent, which will require a strong budget going forward.

I also think that a team without both of those elements can make a run, but that the odds of that happening are low. It would take an incredibly dominant player that eats up most of the NIL budget; Painter and Purdue developed one last year.

Why do you equate budget/money to winning?

How many of the top 20 NIL deals last year moved the needle for their team? Or were these teams on par based on their history?

I believe it should be used to fill gaps in your roster of need but not a necessity to fill your roster with guys coming in for money vs recruiting guys that want culture/family.

UConn already had culture guys and sprinkled in some guys that bought into what Hurley wanted.

Painter has established a culture/family and keeps players at bay with his winning ways.

 

[Katscratch]

It’s been nice getting your perspective but I’ll finish up with this.
Nobody is afraid of Ballo and Rice nor any of the other transfers IU signed. Same coach and same culture mixed with okay guys as mercenaries isn’t creating any fear in the B1G.

Appreciate the discourse!

Time will tell, but I believe that Ballo and Rice are far better than “okay,” both as both players and high quality kids.

 

[Bank Shot Podcast]

With the talent and experience they have assembled, those are very low expectations. You are hoping for something that would be considered a down year for Purdue by most fans.

Okay cool. Those are your expectations. Not mine.

 

[POTFHBTFU]

Hey; I would rather have Dusty May. But Woody is a full-on IU guy with local/IU guys on staff. I wish he was 15 years younger. IU has a plenty of local ties in the program - trying for a bunch more for next year.

Winning is as winning does. Can Woody instill a "winning culture" in year four? We shall see. A talented roster with some guards that don't suck bad is probably the key to "winning culture." Myles Rice was PAC-12 freshman of the year and was the point guard who led Washington State (of all places) to a 24 win season. There's your winning culture guy.

But this 'bought the team" narrative is overrated. Almost of the national contenders have a team that is mightily supported by a healthy NIL budget.

Tell me which pre-season top ten teams aren't "bought?"

When I have seen iu struggle it is 3 point shooters and when they have a big guy clogging the lane. I actually thought they played ok last year with ware able to keep the lane open. So what does iu do they get a guy who epitomizes lane clogging and two guards who are terrible 3 shooters. It’s not just talent these guys have to play well together. There is also a lack of front court depth with guys who aren’t able to provide a lot of minutes.

Congrats on winning the off-season championship but this team does not have a winning culture.

 

[POTFHBTFU]

Hey; I would rather have Dusty May. But Woody is a full-on IU guy with local/IU guys on staff. I wish he was 15 years younger. IU has a plenty of local ties in the program - trying for a bunch more for next year.

Winning is as winning does. Can Woody instill a "winning culture" in year four? We shall see. A talented roster with some guards that don't suck bad is probably the key to "winning culture." Myles Rice was PAC-12 freshman of the year and was the point guard who led Washington State (of all places) to a 24 win season. There's your winning culture guy.

But this 'bought the team" narrative is overrated. Almost of the national contenders have a team that is mightily supported by a healthy NIL budget.

Tell me which pre-season top ten teams aren't "bought?"

Of the top 10 teams only 3 are expected to start more than 1 transfer. Pretty sure Iowa state and Gonzaga don’t have big nil budgets. Most of the rest are bluebloods.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

When I have seen iu struggle it is 3 point shooters and when they have a big guy clogging the lane. I actually thought they played ok last year with ware able to keep the lane open. So what does iu do they get a guy who epitomizes lane clogging and two guards who are terrible 3 shooters. It’s not just talent these guys have to play well together. There is also a lack of front court depth with guys who aren’t able to provide a lot of minutes.

Congrats on winning the off-season championship but this team does not have a winning culture.

For Woodson to be successful, he needs his team to actually incorporate the 3 a lot more than they have the past 3 years, as well as defend the 3 a whole lot better than they have. If he can adjust those things they should be better. Ideally, Carlyle was a big time recruit out of HS and rice ran point for a WASU team very well. Ideally, they should be better at shooting due to the “sophomore jump”. Fletch went through it…Braden some but he’s been pretty consistent in his first 2 years. So, if those two make the jump, along with Mbgako, then theoretically, IU should be very competitive. Add Ballo to the mix, they are hoping he rebounds and rim protects—heard a lot of complaints from zona fans how he was slow, made bad decisions and couldn’t shoot FTs well at all.

However, will they gel? Most of these guys, due to transferring in, have been used to being “the guy” or getting a decent amount of touches/shots up. Will any of those 4 be ok with not always being the focus? Will Goode be ok when he gets 1-2 shots a game and can he deal with the pressure of having to hit his shots when the fans start to complain when he’s off? Obviously all hypothetical, but can see it going really well or really bad for them.

It’s def a tough way to build a roster every year and the absolute opposite of what we all are used to seeing. Couple all that with a really soft/not challenging non conf, one would think it would take some bit of time to have them gel…and maybe that’s why the cupcake schedule was compiled in the first place. But will these pac12 guys be ready for B1G play? We will find out soon enough!

 

[Katscratch]

For Woodson to be successful, he needs his team to actually incorporate the 3 a lot more than they have the past 3 years, as well as defend the 3 a whole lot better than they have. If he can adjust those things they should be better. Ideally, Carlyle was a big time recruit out of HS and rice ran point for a WASU team very well. Ideally, they should be better at shooting due to the “sophomore jump”. Fletch went through it…Braden some but he’s been pretty consistent in his first 2 years. So, if those two make the jump, along with Mbgako, then theoretically, IU should be very competitive. Add Ballo to the mix, they are hoping he rebounds and rim protects—heard a lot of complaints from zona fans how he was slow, made bad decisions and couldn’t shoot FTs well at all.

However, will they gel? Most of these guys, due to transferring in, have been used to being “the guy” or getting a decent amount of touches/shots up. Will any of those 4 be ok with not always being the focus? Will Goode be ok when he gets 1-2 shots a game and can he deal with the pressure of having to hit his shots when the fans start to complain when he’s off? Obviously all hypothetical, but can see it going really well or really bad for them.

It’s def a tough way to build a roster every year and the absolute opposite of what we all are used to seeing. Couple all that with a really soft/not challenging non conf, one would think it would take some bit of time to have them gel…and maybe that’s why the cupcake schedule was compiled in the first place. But will these pac12 guys be ready for B1G play? We will find out soon enough!

Your post is entirely spot on in every way. Luke Goode should also help as a proven catch and shoot rotation player, albeit one who has been a below average defender.

 

[POTFHBTFU]

For Woodson to be successful, he needs his team to actually incorporate the 3 a lot more than they have the past 3 years, as well as defend the 3 a whole lot better than they have. If he can adjust those things they should be better. Ideally, Carlyle was a big time recruit out of HS and rice ran point for a WASU team very well. Ideally, they should be better at shooting due to the “sophomore jump”. Fletch went through it…Braden some but he’s been pretty consistent in his first 2 years. So, if those two make the jump, along with Mbgako, then theoretically, IU should be very competitive. Add Ballo to the mix, they are hoping he rebounds and rim protects—heard a lot of complaints from zona fans how he was slow, made bad decisions and couldn’t shoot FTs well at all.

However, will they gel? Most of these guys, due to transferring in, have been used to being “the guy” or getting a decent amount of touches/shots up. Will any of those 4 be ok with not always being the focus? Will Goode be ok when he gets 1-2 shots a game and can he deal with the pressure of having to hit his shots when the fans start to complain when he’s off? Obviously all hypothetical, but can see it going really well or really bad for them.

It’s def a tough way to build a roster every year and the absolute opposite of what we all are used to seeing. Couple all that with a really soft/not challenging non conf, one would think it would take some bit of time to have them gel…and maybe that’s why the cupcake schedule was compiled in the first place. But will these pac12 guys be ready for B1G play? We will find out soon enough!

Will they jump? Every guard they have had has regressed under woodson. Xavier Johnson actually got worse each year. His scoring his last four years per game 14-12-10-8. Galloway 3 shooting went down from 46% to 26%. Leal and Gunn never “jumped”. Why would you expect any other guard?

 

[BoilerAndy]

Okay cool. Those are your expectations. Not mine.

Um, no. Those are an IU fan's expectations. Reading is a skill.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Will they jump? Every guard they have had has regressed under woodson. Xavier Johnson actually got worse each year. His scoring his last four years per game 14-12-10-8. Galloway 3 shooting went down from 46% to 26%. Leal and Gunn never “jumped”. Why would you expect any other guard?

I tend to agree with you on that! It’s now or never for woody. Let’s see if he somehow changes.

 

[northside100]

Appreciate the discourse!

Time will tell, but I believe that Ballo and Rice are far better than “okay,” both as both players and high quality kids.

I like Rice as a player and he's a great story. If I'm IU his three-point shooting concerns me but his assist-to-turnover ratio was solid and his efficiency from two was good. He's obviously pretty old for a sophomore so I'm not sure that I'd expect the typical freshman to sophomore jump from him, but he should be solid and a clear upgrade for IU.

Ballo will be interesting. He's not really a guy who creates for himself, I'm not sure who on this roster creates for him (maybe Rice?) and I'm not sure how well he compliments Mgbako and Reneau. He certainly adds additional size and rebounding, he'll perhaps fit better than I think.

I've said this here before, I think IU is the clear favorite to win the Big Ten, but overall team shooting and how guys like Ballo fit in will be the difference between a top-four conference finish + second-weekend team and one that wins the conference and is a factor nationally.