Trent Sisley to iu

[Katscratch]

Those dynamics do exist but I think you are missing the main thing, which is culture. The culture at IU sucks and has for a couple of decades now. Look at Purdue and you will see that culture is the main thing Painter has built and strives to continue improving upon.

Not missing it -- I agree. Look at the culture that Cignetti, Moren, Yeagley have established for IU's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th highest profile programs; that's how a coach connects great resources with a great team culture.

I was responding to the contention that IU basketball is a sleeping giant. I believe that is true because of the dynamics that I listed and you agree with me about.

Poprudy responded that the list of dynamics that I cited were a joke and evidence of denial.

 

[Katscratch]

They just don't get it.

"They" lol.

I think you should reread the words I chose and not assume I was stating something that I did not state.

 

[Katscratch]

Crazy that if they had lost one more game in the B1G they would have been 8th.

Bingo.

If my team goes 14-6 or better it's an excellent year in conference whether that's a first or fifth place finish.

 

[Poprudy]

So I cited that IU has:

• Resources (aka, money)
• Name recognition,
• A huge fan base,
• A huge alumni base, and
• Fan interest even when the team is meh.

You think that saying those things exist is a joke and "in denial?" Not sure why. Just because it hasn't translated to enough success doesn't make those dynamics untrue.

You do have those items. That doesn't make you a "sleeping giant" if you haven't been one in a very long time.

4 out 5 of the things you said were about fans and your worst enemy is your own fans.

Don't be naive and believe you're the only program with money.

 

[Poprudy]

"They" lol.

I think you should reread the words I chose and not assume I was stating something that I did not state.

"They" as you're another crazy IU fan. You believe what you typed to be true. You're here to promote your program and you seem to stand by your words but they firmly equate to nothing.

 

[Katscratch]

I think you should reread the words I chose and not assume I was stating something that I did not state.

You do have those items.

You believe what you typed to be true.

 

[proudopete]

Not missing it -- I agree. Look at the culture that Cignetti, Moren, Yeagley have established for IU's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th highest profile programs; that's how a coach connects great resources with a great team culture.

I was responding to the contention that IU basketball is a sleeping giant. I believe that is true because of the dynamics that I listed and you agree with me about.

Poprudy responded that the list of dynamics that I cited were a joke and evidence of denial.

I think you’re really missing the point. Your list does exist but that doesn’t make them all positives. The fans run the show there when it should be the coach.

Instead of getting a good coach who builds culture, the administration has decided to throw money at players in an effort to win. Think about that for a minute. You’re putting the direction of the program in the hands of guys who wouldn’t even be there if not for the money IU threw at them. How do you think that will go when the winning isn’t happening as planned?

The best thing IU could do is get a coach like Painter or Shaka who builds a program of culture that the players take pride in. It would probably take a few years of struggling to get the culture set but IU fans won’t wait for that and instead demand winning now. Why do they expect winning now? For the exact reasons you listed above which to you means it’s a sleeping giant. Thus the circle of suck continues as no matter the coach or players, IU lacks a culture.

I think a lot of Purdue fans see this clearly and in turn don’t really sweat it when IU spends a fortune on transfers or gets a verbal from a five star kid. IU teams are too much me, me, me, just like the fan base and until that changes, that sleeping giant you hope awakens will continue to sleep.

 

[Katscratch]

I think you’re really missing the point. Your list does exist but that doesn’t make them all positives. The fans run the show there when it should be the coach.

Instead of getting a good coach who builds culture, the administration has decided to throw money at players in an effort to win. Think about that for a minute. You’re putting the direction of the program in the hands of guys who wouldn’t even be there if not for the money IU threw at them. How do you think that will go when the winning isn’t happening as planned?

The best thing IU could do is get a coach like Painter or Shaka who builds a program of culture that the players take pride in. It would probably take a few years of struggling to get the culture set but IU fans won’t wait for that and instead demand winning now. Why do they expect winning now? For the exact reasons you listed above which to you means it’s a sleeping giant. Thus the circle of suck continues as no matter the coach or players, IU lacks a culture.

I think a lot of Purdue fans see this clearly and in turn don’t really sweat it when IU spends a fortune on transfers or gets a verbal from a five star kid. IU teams are too much me, me, me, just like the fan base and until that changes, that sleeping giant you hope awakens will continue to sleep.

All of this is why IU Basketball is a sleeping giant, not an awake giant.

Look at the last ten years' champion programs: Kansas, Duke, UConn, UVA, Baylor, Duke, Nova. Nova is the only outlier and their championship was pre-NIL. All of the others have both winning culture and incredible basketball resources. All of them are big money universities where hoops is king, both financially and in the minds of their fanbase and alumni.

And I'd venture to say that hiring the right leader can change culture reasonably quickly. But a school without resources has a hell of a tough time changing that. Hurley is a hell of a great coach, but it was NIL that made their roster shine last year. Three of their five starters were absolutely NIL acquisitions.

 

[proudopete]

All of this is why IU Basketball is a sleeping giant, not an awake giant.

Look at the last ten years' champion programs: Kansas, Duke, UConn, UVA, Baylor, Duke, Nova. Nova is the only outlier and their championship was pre-NIL. All of the others have both winning culture and incredible basketball resources. All of them are big money universities where hoops is king, both financially and in the minds of their fanbase and alumni.

And I'd venture to say that hiring the right leader can change culture reasonably quickly. But a school without resources has a hell of a tough time changing that. Hurley is a hell of a great coach, but it was NIL that made their roster shine last year. Three of their five starters were absolutely NIL acquisitions.

But IU didn’t hire the right leader to instill a winning culture. They just ponied up a bunch of money and hope players will make the change.

Of course Purdue fans hope IU wins enough to keep woody as we all know he won’t change the culture and until that happens, the true winning will never come.

 

[Katscratch]

But IU didn’t hire the right leader to instill a winning culture. They just ponied up a bunch of money and hope players will make the change.

Of course Purdue fans hope IU wins enough to keep woody as we all know he won’t change the culture and until that happens, the true winning will never come.

Hey; I would rather have Dusty May. But Woody is a full-on IU guy with local/IU guys on staff. I wish he was 15 years younger. IU has a plenty of local ties in the program - trying for a bunch more for next year.

Winning is as winning does. Can Woody instill a "winning culture" in year four? We shall see. A talented roster with some guards that don't suck bad is probably the key to "winning culture." Myles Rice was PAC-12 freshman of the year and was the point guard who led Washington State (of all places) to a 24 win season. There's your winning culture guy.

But this 'bought the team" narrative is overrated. Almost of the national contenders have a team that is mightily supported by a healthy NIL budget.

Tell me which pre-season top ten teams aren't "bought?"

 

[proudopete]

Hey; I would rather have Dusty May. But Woody is a full-on IU guy with local/IU guys on staff. I wish he was 15 years younger. IU has a plenty of local ties in the program - trying for a bunch more for next year.

Winning is as winning does. Can Woody instill a "winning culture" in year four? We shall see. A talented roster with some guards that don't suck bad is probably the key to "winning culture." Myles Rice was PAC-12 freshman of the year and was the point guard who led Washington State (of all places) to a 24 win season. There's your winning culture guy.

But this 'bought the team" narrative is overrated. Almost of the national contenders have a team that is mightily supported by a healthy NIL budget.

Tell me which pre-season top ten teams aren't "bought?"

Um…let me think.

Purdue

 

[Katscratch]

Um…let me think.

Purdue

I was looking at ESPNs early top 25: Purdue was 16 and IU 18. CBS Sports has Purdue at 12 and IU at 18. Don’t believe coaches or writers polls are out yet.

So almost. Official polls aren’t out yet but every top ten team is going to be a roster built by NIL.

Other teams can win with a reasonable, not big time budget, but it’s a lot tougher that way.

 

[proudopete]

I was looking at ESPNs early top 25: Purdue was 16 and IU 18. CBS Sports has Purdue at 12 and IU at 18.

So almost. Official polls aren’t out yet but every top ten team is going to be a roster built by NIL.

Other teams can win with a reasonable, not big time budget, but it’s a lot tougher that way.

List teams that win without a winning culture if you can. That’s what IU is right now. A hodgepodge of players from other schools who were recruited to replace culture guys like Galloway and Cupps.
IU fans can’t stand to lose so instead of building a culture they are trying to bypass the hard work to hopefully instantly win. I would be willing to bet your new portal guys don’t live up to the hype like you posted above.

 

[Poprudy]

I was looking at ESPNs early top 25: Purdue was 16 and IU 18. CBS Sports has Purdue at 12 and IU at 18. Don’t believe coaches or writers polls are out yet.

So almost. Official polls aren’t out yet but every top ten team is going to be a roster built by NIL.

Other teams can win with a reasonable, not big time budget, but it’s a lot tougher.....unless you're Purdue.

I fixed it for you.

 

[Katscratch]

List teams that win without a winning culture if you can. That’s what IU is right now. A hodgepodge of players from other schools who were recruited to replace culture guys like Galloway and Cupps.
IU fans can’t stand to lose so instead of building a culture they are trying to bypass the hard work to hopefully instantly win. I would be willing to bet your new portal guys don’t live up to the hype like you posted above.

I think that it is incredibly helpful to have both a winning culture and big time talent, which will require a strong budget going forward.

I also think that a team without both of those elements can make a run, but that the odds of that happening are far lower. It would likely take an incredibly dominant player that eats up most of the NIL budget; Painter and Purdue developed one last year. Zach Edey made a ton of money playing at Purdue last season.

FWIW, I think that Purdue's NIL budget isn't Kansas or Bama, but it's 'good enough' to sustain a winning program. Purdue is a major P4 school that certainly has resources.

 

[proudopete]

I think that it is incredibly helpful to have both a winning culture and big time talent, which will require a strong budget going forward.

I also think that a team without both of those elements can make a run, but that the odds of that happening are far lower. It would likely take an incredibly dominant player that eats up most of the NIL budget; Painter and Purdue developed one last year. Zach Edey made a ton of money playing at Purdue last season.

FWIW, I think that Purdue's NIL budget isn't Kansas or Bama, but it's 'good enough' to sustain a winning program. Purdue is a major P4 school that certainly has resources.

It’s been nice getting your perspective but I’ll finish up with this.
Nobody is afraid of Ballo and Rice nor any of the other transfers IU signed. Same coach and same culture mixed with okay guys as mercenaries isn’t creating any fear in the B1G.

 

[Poprudy]

I think that that it is necessary to have both a winning culture and big time talent, which will require a strong budget going forward.

I also think that a team without both of those elements can make a run, but that the odds of that happening are low. It would take an incredibly dominant player that eats up most of the NIL budget; Painter and Purdue developed one last year.

Why do you equate budget/money to winning?

How many of the top 20 NIL deals last year moved the needle for their team? Or were these teams on par based on their history?

I believe it should be used to fill gaps in your roster of need but not a necessity to fill your roster with guys coming in for money vs recruiting guys that want culture/family.

UConn already had culture guys and sprinkled in some guys that bought into what Hurley wanted.

Painter has established a culture/family and keeps players at bay with his winning ways.

 

[Katscratch]

It’s been nice getting your perspective but I’ll finish up with this.
Nobody is afraid of Ballo and Rice nor any of the other transfers IU signed. Same coach and same culture mixed with okay guys as mercenaries isn’t creating any fear in the B1G.

Appreciate the discourse!

Time will tell, but I believe that Ballo and Rice are far better than “okay,” both as both players and high quality kids.