We let our opponents get wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much out of screens. 1) our guards need to have their head on a swivel and better anticipate the screens. 2) when opponent is 40 feet from the bucket (like hood shafino about 100 times tonight) - we should NOT be right up in his grill. 5% chance of stealing it. 95% chance ur gonna get screened to shreds. Take a step back until offensive player is closer to 3-pt line. 3) when going over the top of screens is getting CRUSHED - we need to start sliding under screens more. It goes back to anticipating those screens better. U might occasionally give up a 3 - but it's better than getting shredded by opponents guard. And it's not just this game. We do this all the time. Come tourney time - it's gonna be our downfall if we can't fix it.
Screen Defense KILLING us!!!
- Thread starter Mr_Red
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This goes way back. VCU, Little Rock, Noth Texas, St. Peter’s. Michigan with Beilen used to exploit it. Woodson did the same with Xavier Johnson last year and they almost won at Mackey. It will be our demise once again in March. It’s a product of playing a traditional 5 in my opinion.
Now we have compounded the problem by doubling every post touch. We aren’t quick enough to rotate effectively.
Woodson game plan tonight was superb.
Now we have compounded the problem by doubling every post touch. We aren’t quick enough to rotate effectively.
Woodson game plan tonight was superb.
I think this is a very astute observation.
There are risks to guarding a guard with his skill set as closely as they were guarding JHS tonight. You have to know your opponent’s strengths and weaknesses. This kind of defense played to his strengths, not his weaknesses.
It is fixable though IMO. Edey can do better and gets better every game. But I think it's more on our guards not anticipating those screens. It's like they treat games just like practice. In practice, they get screened, go over top of screen and everybody rotates perfectly and all is fine. But that's not gonna work in games. Head on swivel - anticipate the screen coming - quickly slide under it - not always - but at least much more often. Hood knows we go over top of screen EVERY time - so just gets his defender on his back and either hits the floater or dumps off to roller for a dunk. And I scream at tv again and again and again. Lol. I don't know - just switch on screens - even with edey! Try something at least! Run a zone so edey can stay down low on defense. Gotta try something!!! Still think best option is for guards to back off a bit when opponent guard is way off 3-pt line, and better anticipate, and slide under screens more. Keep ur man in front of u at all cost.
I wouldn’t count on us doing anything differently. Zone is out of the question. The silver lining is it happened tonight instead of the tournament. Not many guards out there with the mid range game o JHS. Will give us time to tweak our defense. But we will go over ball screens 100% of the time.
cant miss 11 fts and clank 3 for 20 from 3. i thought we had shooters but they all stink. even giving up 35 to number one, we could/should have won with good ft shooting and even bad 3 pt shooting but not horrendous from the 3.
I agree. That certainly didnt help. We DO have shooters. Just off tonight. Loyer been off for a month now. Ughhh. He went to my high school too - so really pulling for him. Jenkins, Morton, and Gillis missed 5 fairly wide open 3s. That's 15 pts. And then 11 missed free throws. 🤦♂️
Our Achilles heel - lack of 3 point shooters - and you can argue all you want but numbers don’t lie. Outside of Smith - who plays out of control occasionally- all are under 35 %. The free throws are because of the pressure of the moment but definitely a problem
Your comment says we "Do" have shooters is based on what. We are ranked 250th in the country in 3 point percentage. Smith is shooting 40% from 3, Gillis 39%. No other Purdue player is shooting more than 33.5% from 3.
Here is a list of IU guys shooting greater than 33.5% from three:
Galloway 52%
Kopp 47%
JHS 36.4%
X Johnson 37%
Bates 40%
Or basically every perimeter player on their team!
Thank god we have Edey!
If you call the defense we are playing man-to-man, you haven't played basketball. Painter is telling Edey to retreat in the lane, guard nobody, and get the rebound when JHS misses a 12' bunny. Except he didn't miss. Every now and then, we have to trap with 7'4, 300lbs waiting there. Or anyone else except Kopps' man. Mulcahy from Rutgers did the same thing 4-5 times at the end of our game and that's what beat us. Edey averages about 2 fouls a game. He may get a cheap foul or two, but will disrupt their offense. I bet he HATES playing that way. Painter rarely makes in game adjustments until it is too late. Do assistant coaches have any input with him? They have to see what we see. tj reece and old boiler, any thoughts?
This has been my concern all season, we give people the “shooter” title and we never reassess of really pressure test it. They just have to “walk like a duck”.
Loyer is not a “shooter” until he actually does it over an extended period in college.
33% from 3 after 160 attempts is poor! This is a huge sample set. Enough to make a conclusion about what he is to this team for this season at least. This isn’t a slump.
37% FG overall is atrocious. And he’s playing in a team that gets him good shots, how bad would it be without Eddy?
We don't have perimeter guys other than Smith & Gillis. Numbers show it.
Got to go with what we are good at...
Rebounding
Hitting FTs
Inside game
And up until very recently D.
Minimize TOs, hit fouls, rebound and play Boiler D.....this team can win even when hitting 25% from 3. But got to be "us" in ALL the areas we are normally great at.
Got to go with what we are good at...
Rebounding
Hitting FTs
Inside game
And up until very recently D.
Minimize TOs, hit fouls, rebound and play Boiler D.....this team can win even when hitting 25% from 3. But got to be "us" in ALL the areas we are normally great at.
Yep that's some poor shooting. Apparently, when it comes to 3s.....not recruiting Essigian was more a recruiting miss than people want to admit. Kid is a shooter...and has proven it. People say his D is not as good as Loyer, and that's true. But CMP is not coaching him either.
Loyer's passing is suspect too, last night he made 2 entry passes to Zach and were miss fires that resulted in TO's
As bad as we shot, FG and FT, defense lost the game Saturday, not offense. As for recruiting, I think Painter has done a damn good job recruiting the last hand full of years. If there was a miss, it wasn't Essigian but Galloway. Don't know if we were on him, but he lays it on the line. Hard for me to say, but I hate it when we get out hustled by IU, both games. I'm old school, Big Ten title most important to me. It was all laid out for us, but couldn't seal the deal. Still there for us though.
Lol. Loyer is as pure a shooter as it gets. Not as athletic as other guards in country - so has to work harder to get open shots. Shot selection will get better and better each yr. When open and can square up - typically gonna hit it. That's why it's critical our offense moves the ball well and spaces properly in order to get great open shots. We have great shooters. In-game stats don't determine whether or not we have guys that can shoot.
Nailed it. Today's game requires you do have players at every position that can make 3s. Few fouls are called in the paint and if they are you are just trading 3s for 2 free throws. We start 4 guys that can't reliably shoot the 3, Edey, Furst, Morton and Loyer. Won't beat good teams with so little offense.
I am not certain but I am pretty sure in-game stats do in fact determine who can deliver. Lots of folks are tough to beat in a game of HORSE.
I never said they were delivering. I said we have some great shooters. Just not executing at the moment.
The shots we’ve been getting are as good as you’re gonna get in the B1G. Great shooters (Mount, Alford, Lewis, etc) hit those.
Wrong imo.
Stats tell the truth. Feelings lie.
With our guy in the middle occupying 2 & 3 guys....if you can't hit open looks we are getting ... that's on you. These kids, save Gillis & Smith, can't shoot efficiently in game. Even Gillis, excluding his one game, isn't setting the world on fire.
Now they might & likely will be efficient shooters in the future with added strength & confidence. They have potential. Right now they are not.
So making shots isn’t required to be considered a good shooter. Regardless of FGA. - just look part, got it. God help us
If you want someone to see something you need to put @ and then moniker like @tjreese and they will see it. Paul Lusk has the D and Terry Johnson has the O. I understand that Matt gives a lot of freedom to his coaches and so I'm unsure the specifics of the D. Staying away from other things on D and just discussing Zach...yes he has played zone a lot or a sagging man actually. Would Zach going up a bit higher change things for Schfino...yes I think it would result in 3 things. 1) It would have shut down a lot of makes by Schifino. 2) it would have opened up more feeds to TJD 3) It sometimes would result in Schifino driving more to the rim with Zach trailing him which may or may not have resulted in positive.
Not defending the curls into the lane was a problem in the first game this year and at least one game where X went off. Personally, I think Matt stays on the analytics too long in a game, but that is me. I do NOT believe that each game is but a sample of the previous data points that were generated with totally different variables in play. I believe that is a great starting place to align with personal viewing of "tape" and knowing your own players, but I just think sometimes the tweaks should be a bit more pronounced. Still, there are NO solutions, only trade-offs.
I thought there would be a LOT of overplay on Schifino to drive him baseline as much as possible and on those occasions where he went baseline and then continued his dribble to go off the screens on top to slide underneath and see what he does from the 3.
The other area of concern was doublng the post "all the time". Because that always happened, IU spread the court and welcomed losing a perimeter player on Defense for their spot shooting. I just think I would have left Caleb on TJD alone a few times and see how that went. So there were things I would have liked to see happen, but none of that means it would have been better...just that we don't know. Not a lot of experimentation in a game possible, but the curling into the lane and scoring has been one area that I believe could have been defended better.
That said, Matt was playing the "longer" shot would have more misses and IU shot VERY well for the game. So the doubling and curls into the lane were huge issues IMO
What if Lusk said, “hey Matt we used to mix in a 2-3 zone at Iowa every now and again, you know like they used very effectively against IU last night…”
The response not making the threes at the moment . We are at the 30 game mark , you are what your stats say you are. Smith is the only good 3 point threat. Gillis had one game and the rest have been inconsistent . The percentages they all have will not cut it . Work on your midrange game
how did iowa hold schifino down? iu stunk from the 3 point line last night. tjd got his points but the guards did not go crazy like they did on us. maybe we could learn a thing or two from iowa. didnt hurt that iowa hit a ton of 3s while we could not spit in the ocean
Can I like this one twice??!!
The way they defended Hood was beautiful to watch. Some would say, he just had a bad night. I would argue he was defended into a bad night. Sure Davis got his but it wasn't a crazy good night for him and Hood ends up with 8.
There is no magic bullet, I get that. But when you have more bullets to try it gives you a better chance of slowing someone down. Sometimes all it takes is a possession or two to change up a game and momentum. I'm not defending Bill Self the person, but that guy can coach. I have seen many times where there is a guying going nuts on them or a team is having a "good night" and he will switch things up on D and the whole game changes. Doesn't work every time, but it's a nice weapon to have.
People need to watch more non B1G games. Iowa and Maryland are the ones in the B1G that do it most often. Everyone else is pretty predictable. I would argue that if more B1G teams mixed things up it would be better for all of us in the conference come tournament time.
Hood-Schifino got going at the end and Iowa wasn’t stopping him. I’m sure the Iowa defense was part of it but I also think JHS was not as aggressive most of the game.
Are you sure he "got going" at the end? I don't remember him scoring the last 7 minutes of the game. He had 8 total all night, so he never got going against them. He shot 14 times so he was active, just couldn't beat their defense. At least that's what I saw.
No idea what Paul's thoughts are. In his first stint at Purdue he never used a zone and amped up the pressure in man. That was before the rule emphasis for freedom of movement, which today has somewhat been banished. I wished he would have played softer against the PG for VCU.
IU shot VERY well against Purdue and missed similar shots from the perimeter last night. The thought of gaps inside, if pure zone, and TJD alone in gaps gives a LOT of concern. I don't know how Iowa played D since I was not really watching, but just catching the O of Iowa in comparison to the clock.
If Schifino wants to get in the lane, you just screen the top of the zone rather than the guy defending Schifino. Screen a man in man D and can screen area (with man in area) against a zone relative to screening. The biggest thing last night was that IU had their super bowl against Purdue and was very flat against Iowa...AND Iowa...Perkins in particular had his way driving the ball and almost getting a triple double. I would need to see what Iowa actually did on D relative to the 2-3 look, but again you can screen the zone and get in gaps as well...
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He didn't score for the last 16:00 of the game. His last basket was 3:58 into the 2nd half.
Iowa vs Indiana Basketball Game Summary - February 28th, 2023 | NCAA.com
Live scores from the Iowa and Indiana DI Men's Basketball game, including box scores, individual and team statistics and play-by-play.
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He wouldn't be allowed to. CMP doesn't believe in them. His quote "The B1G is a man to man league". We can argue all day on this one, but it comes down to what CMP believes. What I believe is our conference would be better off if it wasn't "a MTM league". Iowa and Maryland switch up more than any other teams, I wish there were more that would do it. 20+ years without a champ from this conference. Maybe it's time we look at changing things up some. There are many on here that don't watch anything except B1G. If they did, they would see that other conferences play different than we do. We as a conference would be better off if we had more teams willing to mix it up occasionally. Doubtful it will happen, but I wish it would.
Too many misses from 3 is a huge concern since you rarely get anything out of a miss. Driving the ball a bit more would be nice. Braden should be the one with the lowest 3% since shooting as a priority is an after thought for a PG at Purdue "with zach" and is wired different for this team. Others should be thinking score if a look...
I would welcome other teams in the Big to mix things up so that Purdue doesn't get stale. MtoM is a primary D for most teams and that ability is also in play in match-up zones. I can't recall teams in the championship playing zone, but I can't recall much about any of those games.
There are a lot of people that state Matt is too stubborn and doesn't adjust. Well if you believed (I don't) that the current game came out of the same population as that provided as current analytics, then you must also believe that coming from the same population should eventually provide the data (end up closer) prior to the game and that each game is but a small sampling error of the data. I don't believe that. I think every game has the opportunity to be different than previous data gathered against many teams over time. I think a coach generates a lot of data. I think that data is great for a general game plan, but do NOT believe that each game will find it's average level and that maybe larger, more pronounced adjustments should be in play. I have similar thoughts on the mid-range game. When they are hitting them or just getting in there and causing rebounding concerns that show up elsewhere in points, perhaps the "long 2s" are not as desired as originally thought.
He didn't score for the last 16:00 of the game. His last basket was 3:58 into the 2nd half.
Iowa vs Indiana Basketball Game Summary - February 28th, 2023 | NCAA.com
Live scores from the Iowa and Indiana DI Men's Basketball game, including box scores, individual and team statistics and play-by-play.
Hmmm must be confused about what part of the game I remembered it from. Maybe it was the end of the half. Who knows.
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