Painter at Center Grove this morning

[TC4THREE]

Problem with my post is sometimes people can't handle the truth

Could quite possibly be also that you don't know the truth about that which you speak.

 

[tynd10]

The definition of 5* player, something I read about 6 years ago, is that they can be a very large contributor to a team right away. It doesn't mean that they start right away, or get the most shots. Just that they can be a significant contributor right away. To some that means starting and playing more minutes than the rest of the squad. But it has been demonstrated many times that many 5* players do not attain that. But the is more to this than starting and shooting the most and playing the most minutes. You have to go to class and remain eligible. You have to stay out of jail. And so on. It isn't all about basketball.

I agree with your logic at a place like Duke where they have multiple 5* every year... this is Purdue. If a 5* committed he would immediately start.

 

[Inspector100]

I agree with your logic at a place like Duke where they have multiple 5* every year... this is Purdue. If a 5* committed he would immediately start.

Not necessarily the case. Go back and read the comments from "Treed". CMP has told them how it will be at Purdue and they liked what they heard. So now he is playing PG @ 6'7". Sort of abnormal, but I have seen it in the past. He was rated at 3/4*. But he is contributing right away. Your definition of 5* at Purdue says he starts. But CMP is getting immediate contribution from a 3/4* player in his first semester. And we are winning games. Those WUG were tough and proved the worthy-ness of our team. He was a big part of it. Isn't that more important than telling white lies (pardon the pun) to a recruit and have him stuck where he can not make a contribution? There are several here that are debating you hard on this point. Ask your dad about this and slow down a little. It will pay off.

 

[tynd10]

Not necessarily the case. Go back and read the comments from "Treed". CMP has told them how it will be at Purdue and they liked what they heard. So now he is playing PG @ 6'7". Sort of abnormal, but I have seen it in the past. He was rated at 3/4*. But he is contributing right away. Your definition of 5* at Purdue says he starts. But CMP is getting immediate contribution from a 3/4* player in his first semester. And we are winning games. Those WUG were tough and proved the worthy-ness of our team. He was a big part of it. Isn't that more important than telling white lies (pardon the pun) to a recruit and have him stuck where he can not make a contribution? There are several here that are debating you hard on this point. Ask your dad about this and slow down a little. It will pay off.

I'm not sure where you are going with this. If Scruggs or Waters committed to Purdue, they would likely be starting, or at least be the backups. If a 5* PG like Trevon Duval (we weren't recruiting him) commits to Purdue, then he definitely starts day one. Also, I don't need to be patronized.

 

[TC4THREE]

I'm not sure where you are going with this. If Scruggs or Waters committed to Purdue, they would likely be starting, or at least be the backups. If a 5* PG like Trevon Duval (we weren't recruiting him) commits to Purdue, then he definitely starts day one. Also, I don't need to be patronized.

You're basically saying they would be in the rotation on a 13 man roster...............

 

[tynd10]

You're basically saying they would be in the rotation on a 13 man roster...............

I believe they both would have started over PJ, but I didn't want to start that thread again. The point I was making is that both would have been ahead of NE in the depth chart (I didn't want to use NE as the example, but the other poster used him) which is my point that highly ranked players almost always will come in and start right away at Purdue. Before it is disputed, my definition of highly ranked is around top 30. Certainly in the top 50.

 

[BoilerInChiTown]

Tom Izzo is a stand up guy who hates social media. I got to see a different side of Izzo when my son and i took our official visit to Mich state when we were going through this process. Trust me when I tell you a lot of crooked things going on in recruiting I've seen it some tried to come at me with it but u get caught doing it you loose out in the end. Izzo good guy and so is painter both do things the right way. What painter is trying to do is change the perception of the program and getting kids that want to be here is all he can do. Purdue time is coming they have pieces this season and beyond that I see a team that gonna be a very dangerous team come tournament time.

Thank you for confirming this. Izzo, rather we like him or not is a HOF coach that Painter one day hoped to be. We don't like him cus he get a lot of our recruits that we wants. I would take him anytime if he ever want to come to Purdue.

 

[Treed1967]

You're basically saying they would be in the rotation on a 13 man roster...............

I'll put it like this the season is around the corner and only time will tell what any of these players will do on the big stage. With the core of those teams that are freshman ( Kentucky, Duke) especially with big shoes to fill with not many upperclassmen to help them with lack of college experience we'll see just how good they all gonna be as season plays out.

 

[tynd10]

I'll put it like this the season is around the corner and only time will tell what any of these players will do on the big stage. With the core of those teams that are freshman ( Kentucky, Duke) especially with big shoes to fill with not many upperclassmen to help them with lack of college experience we'll see just how good they all gonna be as season plays out.

Do you think Purdue has a better chance to win the national championship than Duke?

 

[TC4THREE]

I'll put it like this the season is around the corner and only time will tell what any of these players will do on the big stage. With the core of those teams that are freshman ( Kentucky, Duke) especially with big shoes to fill with not many upperclassmen to help them with lack of college experience we'll see just how good they all gonna be as season plays out.

I agree with you. Rankings are a very general, inexact indicator of a player's ability. These people that pretend they are The Bible and all playing time is determined by them are fools. So many other factors to consider.

 

[Treed1967]

Do you think Purdue has a better chance to win the national championship than Duke?

you think Duke will win it bcuz they have bagly, duval Trent, Knox, Vanderbilt, Richards, green, shai and a few others on the bench bolden, can't think of the other big who by the way both were all Americans too and the only returning starter is Allen. Sure on paper and there rankings and their status supports the reason many believe they will win it all but Duke had all that last year but had more veteran players with the young core they brought in and got beat in the 2nd round. Sir your opinions or facts to support what you say is merely your opinion. As the season play out let's see if this young team who hasn't proven anything yet on a college court on national television with millions watching them if they are who everybody say they are. 39 games we will see sir

 

[TC4THREE]

I believe they both would have started over PJ, but I didn't want to start that thread again. The point I was making is that both would have been ahead of NE in the depth chart (I didn't want to use NE as the example, but the other poster used him) which is my point that highly ranked players almost always will come in and start right away at Purdue. Before it is disputed, my definition of highly ranked is around top 30. Certainly in the top 50.

Top 30? So basically you're talking about just Moore and Swanigan or am I forgetting others?

Also, maybe part of the reason they always have is because we have a coach that is up front and tells highly rated recruits that they'll have to beat out a multi-year starter such as Vince Edwards or PJ Thompson to earn that starting spot as a freshman?

 

[Treed1967]

you think Duke will win it bcuz they have bagly, duval Trent, Knox, Vanderbilt, Richards, green, shai and a few others on the bench bolden, can't think of the other big who by the way both were all Americans too and the only returning starter is Allen. Sure on paper and there rankings and their status supports the reason many believe they will win it all but Duke had all that last year but had more veteran players with the young core they brought in and got beat in the 2nd round. Sir your opinions or facts to support what you say is merely your opinion. As the season play out let's see if this young team who hasn't proven anything yet on a college court on national television with millions watching them if they are who everybody say they are. 39 games we will see sir

I mixed some Kentucky players with Duke players my bad but my message is the same regarding both teams

 

[tynd10]

Top 30? So basically you're talking about just Moore and Swanigan or am I forgetting others?

Also, maybe part of the reason they always have is because we have a coach that is up front and tells highly rated recruits that they'll have to beat out a multi-year starter such as Vince Edwards or PJ Thompson to earn that starting spot as a freshman?

You are exactly right, and that's my issue. He shouldn't tell them they have to beat out the senior starters. If he weren't so honest we may have more than just Biggie and Moore as top 30 players. Is it a coincidence that the only time Painter has won the big ten, or been to the sweet 16 he has had a top 30 player?

 

[tynd10]

you think Duke will win it bcuz they have bagly, duval Trent, Knox, Vanderbilt, Richards, green, shai and a few others on the bench bolden, can't think of the other big who by the way both were all Americans too and the only returning starter is Allen. Sure on paper and there rankings and their status supports the reason many believe they will win it all but Duke had all that last year but had more veteran players with the young core they brought in and got beat in the 2nd round. Sir your opinions or facts to support what you say is merely your opinion. As the season play out let's see if this young team who hasn't proven anything yet on a college court on national television with millions watching them if they are who everybody say they are. 39 games we will see sir

You didn't answer my question. Do you believe Purdue has a better chance of winning the national championship than Duke?

 

[Treed1967]

Do you think Purdue has a better chance to win the national championship than Duke?

YES

 

[tynd10]

YES

hahahaha Okay that's all I needed to hear. Have a good day.

 

[Treed1967]

YES

What I'm suppose to say no my son can play sir he is very very good. My son played most of those players at the USA tryouts back in 2016 and held Knox and Trent in check. My son played against JJ and green on EYBL circuit and many more of those players u speak of and killed many and beat them on there AAU team. Green cud not guard my son on the post was to small JJ settled for jump shots when my son was sticking him. So I say to u not sure u a fan of purdue or not but u will c just how good my son is and this team is. Stating PJ has earned that and if u think painter wud just start a 5 star bcuz of his status u are wrong. That kid will have to earn his playing time like mine is and will. Starting means nothing playing when the game is on the line mean something. I no how good my son is he was being recruited by Kentucky and Duke at one time but my son didn't care about there name he cared about getting to a school that wud help him get better and develop his overall game to get to the place many believe they are entitled too bcuz they are ranked. Remember this NBA scouts will b at many of purdue games bcuz of some of the teams they may play. 6"7 PG with 225 pound size that can play and defend 4 positions they will b watching for sure.

 

[TC4THREE]

You are exactly right, and that's my issue. He shouldn't tell them they have to beat out the senior starters. If he weren't so honest we may have more than just Biggie and Moore as top 30 players. Is it a coincidence that the only time Painter has won the big ten, or been to the sweet 16 he has had a top 30 player?

Well, I guess that's where we agree to disagree.

 

[Treed1967]

Well, I guess that's where we agree to disagree.

Absolutely

 

[Inspector100]

hahahaha Okay that's all I needed to hear. Have a good day.

Ummm. Not very respectful. And patronization, interesting thought. Why do you post if you don't want to accept another thought than your own? I though we were getting somewhere, but I was mistaken.

 

[tynd10]

What I'm suppose to say no my son can play sir he is very very good. My son played most of those players at the USA tryouts back in 2016 and held Knox and Trent in check. My son played against JJ and green on EYBL circuit and many more of those players u speak of and killed many and beat them on there AAU team. Green cud not guard my son on the post was to small JJ settled for jump shots when my son was sticking him. So I say to u not sure u a fan of purdue or not but u will c just how good my son is and this team is. Stating PJ has earned that and if u think painter wud just start a 5 star bcuz of his status u are wrong. That kid will have to earn his playing time like mine is and will. Starting means nothing playing when the game is on the line mean something. I no how good my son is he was being recruited by Kentucky and Duke at one time but my son didn't care about there name he cared about getting to a school that wud help him get better and develop his overall game to get to the place many believe they are entitled too bcuz they are ranked. Remember this NBA scouts will b at many of purdue games bcuz of some of the teams they may play. 6"7 PG with 225 pound size that can play and defend 4 positions they will b watching for sure.

I want Purdue to win and think they have a chance to win. Do they have a better chance to win than Duke? Absolutely not. No educated college basketball fan (Outside of a family member of another team) would say Purdue has a better chance. I think your son will be very good for Purdue, as I have stated many times.

 

[tynd10]

Ummm. Not very respectful. And patronization, interesting thought. Why do you post if you don't want to accept another thought than your own? I though we were getting somewhere, but I was mistaken.

That did come off very trollish. I'll admit to that. I find it very hard to believe anyone (even the very die hard Purdue fans) think Purdue has a better chance at winning the national championship at this point.

 

[Mandeville LA]

I'd rather stretch truths and get to the championship than lose in the round of 32.

My father told me when I was young that the problem with lying is that you can never stop. One lie leads to another and so on. Telling the truth is easy and easy to remember what you have said.

 

[tynd10]

My father told me when I was young that the problem with lying is that you can never stop. One lie leads to another and so on. Telling the truth is easy and easy to remember what you have said.

Great quote. Thanks.

 

[Treed1967]

That did come off very trollish. I'll admit to that. I find it very hard to believe anyone (even the very die hard Purdue fans) think Purdue has a better chance at winning the national championship at this point.

Purdue has just about a chance as any other team that makes the tournament including the blue bloods. Kentucky Kansas North Carolina and Duke projected to get to the final 4 it did not happen except for 1 of them and they won it all. I'm a believer and whether u fill they won't that is your opinion.

 

[B1GBBFan]

Let me be very clear how many other teams have not even made it to a ncaa tournament let alone a final 4 and these coaches still have there jobs why bcuz they get the 5 star players with the name and status behind there names which it what keeps them from focusing on the fact the schools have not been to a final 4 in years or sweet 16 to that fact and Arizona comes to mind with 5star all American talent every single year and hasn't come close to and elite 8. Kansas 2012 since its reached final 4. Kentucky 2014 I believe Duke 2014 Louisville 2013, to name a few who has not been to a final 4 since and yet always get all the high ranking players and top seeds in the tournament and yet hasn't been there in awhile. Mich state is predicted to be a top 3 team and a final 4 contender bcuz of what they got coming back with 3 all Americans and some 4 star players and a bench to match. Well the problem predicting who gonna do what I'm September bcuz what you have on paper always never end up happening when season begins. We all shall see when season gets going and how it ends. Painter just getting the raw end of the stick bcuz he hasn't gotten there in 12 seasons under his leadership. Fair enough but he has made some major changes in what he has recruited and he seems to be adjusting to his personal and finding what fits and the needs at positions. He now I feel got pieces in place athletes, size, skill players that will be able to compete with any of these schools mentioned above and beat them to. Don't be fooled by rankings ppl it's a number and a number don't play basketball in the court but the player does. Painter has a basketball mind and his understanding of the game is impeccable and now he has players to make some ppl who doubt this team bcuz they don't have all Americans on there roster not be relevant in scouts eyes. I say this this team will be very dangerous by time conference play begin. Also remember they got a 11 game head start than most teams have and the freshman did too

Please don't take this as me picking on you, but this is misinformation. (See bold above)

Arizona: Elite 8 (2011, 2014, 2015) Sweet 16 (2013)
Kansas: Title (2008) Runner up (2012) Elite 8 (2016) Eleventy Billion Straight Big 12 titles
Kentucky: Title (2012), Runner up (2014) Final Four (2015)
Duke: Title (2010, 2015) Elite 8 (2013)
Louisville: Title (2013) Final Four (2012) Elite 8 (2015)

Who is getting all the 5 star players and who is getting results? For every Wasington, LSU, soon to be Mizzou there is a program getting results with those 5* recruits. It's not a big secret that talent rules the day in college basketball at the highest level. Any program in the Big Team would be drooling for that kind of success.

I enjoy your perspective as a parent who has gone through the recruiting process. Your knowledge in that particular are is unmatched by almost everyone on these boards. However, at the end of the day facts prove that these elite programs recruit elite players to pair with elite coaching for elite results. Outside of MSU, and Michigan for a few years, the Big Ten hasn't touched that in the recent past. It very well could change in the near future with programs like Purdue on the rise and a few other making coaching changes hoping to climb the ladder.

 

[ericrossiu]

It will b my pleasure if u ever need some advice I'm more than willing to help u in anyway i can

Awesome!!

Being the parent, how much should I be contacting colleges vs her coaches in HS or aau?
Thank you!!!
Ericrossiu@yahoo.com

 

[tynd10]

Purdue has just about a chance as any other team that makes the tournament including the blue bloods. Kentucky Kansas North Carolina and Duke projected to get to the final 4 it did not happen except for 1 of them and they won it all. I'm a believer and whether u fill they won't that is your opinion.

We will agree to disagree. Boiler Up.

 

[B1GBBFan]

On topic...

MSU was the early favorites but he has since taken a serious liking to IU. I believe it will be a two horse race between MSU and IU. I wouldn't be surprised if he committed early to one of these programs.

Edit: It's recruiting of 16/17 year old kids so anything is possible.

 

[tjreese]

I understand the frustration and the temptation. But not succumbing to it is the definition of integrity.

John Wooden quotes “Be more concerned with your characterthan your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.” “The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching.”

...both in The Edge

 

[tjreese]

As a HC at Purdue, Matt Painter is 265-141 for a win percentage of .653. Keady's was actually .647. Arguably, CMP has been a better HC than what many consider one of the greatest coaches in conference history.

I like Matt...a lot... but the comment should be in context that Keady played a home and home against Big Teams and that hasn't been the case under Matt. How that schedule difference shaked out...I do not know and NONE of this is to begin to suggest that Gene was a better coach than Matt. Day in and day out..not sure that Rutgers, Nebraska and Penn State strengthened the Big Ten in comparison, but Maryland was solid. Anyway, the point is that Matt's success is better than most realize...

 

[Treed1967]

Please don't take this as me picking on you, but this is misinformation. (See bold above)

Arizona: Elite 8 (2011, 2014, 2015) Sweet 16 (2013)
Kansas: Title (2008) Runner up (2012) Elite 8 (2016) Eleventy Billion Straight Big 12 titles
Kentucky: Title (2012), Runner up (2014) Final Four (2015)
Duke: Title (2010, 2015) Elite 8 (2013)
Louisville: Title (2013) Final Four (2012) Elite 8 (2015)

Who is getting all the 5 star players and who is getting results? For every Wasington, LSU, soon to be Mizzou there is a program getting results with those 5* recruits. It's not a big secret that talent rules the day in college basketball at the highest level. Any program in the Big Team would be drooling for that kind of success.

I enjoy your perspective as a parent who has gone through the recruiting process. Your knowledge in that particular are is unmatched by almost everyone on these boards. However, at the end of the day facts prove that these elite programs recruit elite players to pair with elite coaching for elite results. Outside of MSU, and Michigan for a few years, the Big Ten hasn't touched that in the recent past. It very well could change in the near future with programs like Purdue on the rise and a few other making coaching changes hoping to climb the ladder.

I should have been more specific I never said none of those schools haven't won them I was saying it's been awhile for a few of them bcuz every single year in and out they are projected to win it all. I only started to follow college ball when my son started being recruited that was in 8th grade that was 2014 when I started paying attention to all of that. Facts opinions those are yours as well and you may have did your homework to support your reasons to try to make my point irrelevant but it isn't. Dayton didn't have no high ranking players got to an elite 8. Wichita state didn't have high ranking players final 4 so every year things cud happen. My point is whether you an all American on a blue blood team doesn't make than better than a kid on Illinois state team. Don't mean many will be NBA players either or be successful if they get there but means if you work and work and work you but off to get better like I no my son does and many kids like him do anything is possible.

 

[Treed1967]

Awesome!!

Being the parent, how much should I be contacting colleges vs her coaches in HS or aau?
Thank you!!!
Ericrossiu@yahoo.com

I will email u my number u can call me anytime.

 

[PU52Chevy]

Stretching the truth is not cheating. See my last post to "Steel" where I outlined what I meant. I'm sure Archie is stretching truths, but I'm also sure what he is doing isn't illegal. I work in sales, so I stretch truths every day. You have to in order to win the deal.

Sorry to inform you or your father who taught you about sales but sales is about the following:

Lessons selling:
1) Learn to sell yourself first, which means be confident and know your product, but always do it with honesty and integrity, never stretch truth or state anything but fact once trust is broken you are nothing but hot air.

2) Selling really isn't selling at all...it is listening and finding potential partners who are in need. If you try to be dishonest and force a sale, 90% of the time it is returned because their was no need.

For young sales people their is nothing wrong with answering, "Let me find out and get your the correct information", rather than making something up. Truth and facts are better than lies or "stretching of truth"

Knowing your product so you can educate your potential partners, listening or uncovering their potential needs and building trust with honesty integrity will bring you more sales in business......doesn't hurt to use those attributes in life either.

Happy Selling.......or should I say happy listening.

This is not a lecture but one tenured sales leader helping another.

 

[B1GBBFan]

I should have been more specific I never said none of those schools haven't won them I was saying it's been awhile for a few of them bcuz every single year in and out they are projected to win it all. I only started to follow college ball when my son started being recruited that was in 8th grade that was 2014 when I started paying attention to all of that. Facts opinions those are yours as well and you may have did your homework to support your reasons to try to make my point irrelevant but it isn't. Dayton didn't have no high ranking players got to an elite 8. Wichita state didn't have high ranking players final 4 so every year things cud happen. My point is whether you an all American on a blue blood team doesn't make than better than a kid on Illinois state team. Don't mean many will be NBA players either or be successful if they get there but means if you work and work and work you but off to get better like I no my son does and many kids like him do anything is possible.

I completely agree that "hard work beats talent when talent refuses to work hard." Wichita State has had a few great years under a great coach but isn't close to the elite schools. Anything can happen in a one game scenario, the lesser talented team could upset a team loaded with 5* players. My stance, and the facts, back up the claim that the elite programs get their more often with elite programs. The Cinderella story in the tournament is always great to follow; however, if you're a power 5 school wanting to be elite you need to more success than one year. There is a reason that Izzo is able to pull elite recruits and get results. It's also the reason that many other Big Ten schools are still hoping to get to that level.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Well, at least you admit the bolded part above. There are many coaches and fans who agree with you.

I, however, don't. I think complete honesty and transparency matters in basketball, life, and relationships.

Coach Painter seems to agree that it matters in recruiting. If that means we win twenty-seven games rather than thirty-two, I'm absolutely good with that. Frankly, I'd rather we lose every game rather than compromising our integrity.

Oh please with the "integrity" mumbo jumbo. We all stand by the wayside while the NCAA generates billions from 18 - 22 year olds. Just please.

 

[tynd10]

Sorry to inform you or your father who taught you about sales but sales is about the following:

Lessons selling:
1) Learn to sell yourself first, which means be confident and know your product, but always do it with honesty and integrity, never stretch truth or state anything but fact once trust is broken you are nothing but hot air.

2) Selling really isn't selling at all...it is listening and finding potential partners who are in need. If you try to be dishonest and force a sales 90% of the time it is returned because their was no need.

or young sales people their is nothing wrong with answering, "Let me find out and get your the correct information", rather than making something up. Truth and facts are better than lies or "stretching of truth"

Knowing your product so you can educate your potential partners, listening or uncovering their potential needs and building trust with honesty integrity will bring you more sales in business......doesn't hurt to use those attributes in life either.

Happy Selling.......or should I say happy listening.

I have used the "Let me find out" line many times. However, I disagree with stretching the truth. When a client asks for a deadline, I give them our best deadline (that is assuming absolutely nothing goes wrong we will have it for you by this date). It's the business world and there are a lot of moving parts, so sometimes that deadline is not met. In that case I get on the phone and explain to the client what happened and give them the new deadline. The truth would be that we could achieve the deadline, but there could be circumstances where the deadline will need to be extended. I simply wouldn't include the second part in this situation. I have never had a complaint from a customer, or needed to "explain a lie". My methods (his methods) work, so as the old saying goes "If it ain't broke don't fix it".

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

John Wooden quotes “Be more concerned with your characterthan your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.” “The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching.”

...both in The Edge

"What one man can do, another can do...."
"Never feel sorry for a man who owns a plane...."

 

[tjreese]

"What one man can do, another can do...."
"Never feel sorry for a man who owns a plane...."

never heard those before...but like them.