As she admitted, other coaches were caught in "lies". Those coaches (I would have to assume Izzo) are very highly respected and still get highly rated recruits which allows them to get to the Final 4 and beyond. They haven't been "set back to the dark ages". I MSU, but I would be happy with the success they have had in the last decade.
Painter at Center Grove this morning
- Thread starter indyrocket
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It will b my pleasure if u ever need some advice I'm more than willing to help u in anyway i can
Arizona has been to 3 elite 8s and 2 sweet 16s since Sean miller has been there. Duke has won two championships in the last 7 years. Louisville won the championship 3 years ago. Jaren Jackson will be a starter for Michigan State. Scruggs will likely start for Xavier. Wilkes will definitely start for UCLA. Williams will likely get at least 15 minutes a game for Louisville. Yea, I'm "miss guided".
I'm with you: Big time college sports recruiting, especially hoops, is a dirty business and sometimes you need to get a little dirty to get the job done. I'm not advocating anything illegal, but if there's grey areas that other coaches are using to win recruits, then I say you gotta join them.
After all, Painter is paid to win games and put asses in the seats. Do you think any college president of a school which you might consider 'shady' (UK, L'ville, UNC, Memphis, etc) doesn't think his basketball head coach is playing within the rules? But, they also know the value to the university of a top flight program which is why the coaches are the highest paid employees of the school.
Highly respected by whom? Dukie V? When was Izzo's last title (and how did he get it)?
We shall see sir we shall see. Revisit this post when season begins since u seem to no what each of these coaches gonna fo
Actually, your cup comparison is only a perception. The only truth is that the cup is twice as large as needed...The rest is perception.
I'm no way close to a Pollyanna and I certainly don't hate Boilerman1973, but there is nothing to make me think that a final four is out of question. It may not happen as it doesn't for many good teams that could get there if things fall right...and I don't see Purdue being a blue blood anytime soon if ever. I remember when Willie Deane was playing and talking a bit with Frank who at that time you know was not happy with Purdue and he said Morgan wanted a top 25 program, but did NOT want to be thought of as a JOCK school...all based upon the things Frank thought needed to be in play to elevate the recruiting.
Most likely if following the rules...change will be an evolution and not a revolution...meaning continual winning and always knocking on the door. This might have already been a reality had the budget while the baby Boilers were playing was in play back then. Instead, it set Purdue back a few years. Combining all the sources of variation as a single entity and not acknowledging that many things in flux that changed over the duration (Shaus, Rose, Keady and now Painter) referenced cannot begin to answer the questions many have. I don't hate or even dislike Boilerman1973...he may be a wonderful person. I just may not agree with his future projects at this time
Hasn't MSU been to like, 6 Final Fours in the last 10-12 years ?
Are you inferring that he cheated?
Well, what ever he's doing, I'd trade Painters tourney record for Izzo's, no questions asked.
71 probably was their championship. But I can draw so many parallels between Purdue and the Milwaukee Bucks. Looking back at almost every decade until recently, and the bucks' overall record was usually in the top 10, sometimes top 5, but because they never won a championship, they never received the press or hype. even in the down years, they somehow seemed to find a way into the play-offs. the Bucks came close with Kareem a couple of years. they came close with Dave Cowens and Bob Lanier and Jack Sikma. they came close again with Moncrief, and came close again with BIg Dog and Ray Allen. but even when having a great team, they never received the hype lesser teams received. the bucks were better than the Bulls last year, but still it was the Bulls who received the press and hype.
and so it is with Purdue and Painter. I have to believe if you look at overall records of Division 1 schools over the past decade, Purdue would probably be in the top 20, maybe even top 10. But teams like Louisville, MSU, Gonzaga and others continue to grab the spotlight .
Painter is very low key. When he coached at SIU, he owned a house in Carterville, IL next to our Minister's parsonage and down the street from SI BOILER. And you'd never know it was a university head coach who lived there. the house was about $150-175,000 in a quiet neighborhood, and he didn't have many parties or anything ever happening at his house. Maybe because he was on the road. Painter did enjoy success at SIU. and when they won, there were no wild celebrations. and when he left for Purdue, if you didn't follow college basketball, you'd never have known he was anything more than just a regular guy.
And Painter seeks out a certain player who is team first rather than personal stats first. Some players buy into his low key approach, while many others don't. Painter's system and coaching is not for everybody. but I think he's proven if a player works hard, he'll receive a chance to start. And if he works very hard, the NBA scouts will take notice. I remember the last BIG 10 game between Purdue and Michigan, and the announcer was pointing out all the scouts and GMs watching.
it's sort of like my son playing AAU ball. he wasn't very talented, but the college scouts watched his team play. his coach gave him the opportunity to be seen. and the same goes for painter and Purdue. Purdue may not be flashy or elite, but we play the elite schools, and most times, we win. As a player and a fan, you can't ask for more than that.
So if a coach cheats and gets all those final fours you would trade it with Painter's record? Got it, you have zero integrity the if something so irrelevant to life means that much to you that you are willing to have a a coach cheat to get it and tarnish a university's name.
He clearly stated in his previous post that he would not be okay with CMP doing anything illegal (cheating).
He clearly stated: "Well, what ever he's doing, I'd trade Painters tourney record for Izzo's, no questions asked".
Which contradict what you are saying here.
Edit: But then again, maybe it was this you were referring to: https://purdue.forums.rivals.com/threads/painter-at-center-grove-this-morning.126266/#post-1476430
Which is what YOU said almost verbatim to your comment above. You forget to switch ID's when replying?
No one would be okay with CMP cheating. Period. Izzo, to my knowledge, has never been caught cheating, so there is nothing to suggest he cheats.
Fair enough. Not some big scandal, but it is "cheating".
You are right Wole. But what 73 and a few others don't see is that how you say something is as important as the message. He could have made all of those points in a manner that does not illicit backlash from this group. It's probably to late now.
I actively try to word things in a way that is clear and not overly aggressive, usually. Even then I will occasionally write things that are more harsh than I intended. It takes effort that he is not willing to make.
you are right. I've learned a few things from my mistakes. I doubt my future posts will ever be brief. And I will always speculate. that's my nature. but in growing up, there are smart people who are always right, that you believe, like and follow. and there are others who say the exact same message, and you hate that person and everything they say and stand for - sort of like Hillary and Donald.
two things, if you do not provide feedback, a person will never know and never improve. on the other hand, sometimes you try too hard to find the good in somebody and you end up wasting both his time and yours. I've spent a lifetime trying to change the world and make it a better place. I've had a few success stories. and a lot of failures. I could have used my education n and military experience to become a rich stock broker on Wall street or work for Citibank in NYC I chose my family and education. Rather than taking advantage of people, I try to teach people how not to be taken advantage of, and how to look for the signs. Sometimes, it's obvious. many times it's not.
That's why I'm a sports fan. I've made a personal investment, and I like to watch it grow. In the stock world, Purdue would be seen as a cash cow rather than a small market or growth fund. Purdue would be in the Dow Jones and one of the 500 with a healthy , steady return.
I understand the frustration and the temptation. But not succumbing to it is the definition of integrity.
I don't know if Izzo "cheats" to get recruits or not, nor do I really care. But to suggest that you (not you) would trade records of some sports program and ask no questions is just mind boggling to me and shows just one big lack of integrity.
Tom Izzo is a stand up guy who hates social media. I got to see a different side of Izzo when my son and i took our official visit to Mich state when we were going through this process. Trust me when I tell you a lot of crooked things going on in recruiting I've seen it some tried to come at me with it but u get caught doing it you loose out in the end. Izzo good guy and so is painter both do things the right way. What painter is trying to do is change the perception of the program and getting kids that want to be here is all he can do. Purdue time is coming they have pieces this season and beyond that I see a team that gonna be a very dangerous team come tournament time.
Everyone shows a lack of integrity at times including CMP. No one is perfect. My point was tell a high level recruit whatever he needs to hear (as long as it is not illegal). Tell him he will come in and start right away, and he would play 25+ minutes a game. Tell him you will play him at PF even if you plan to play him at Center as well. Sell the program.
Except for the fact that he put together the team that ultimately Swanigan wanted to play for and recruited the players he wanted to play with.
Didn't Izzo get caught up in something 5-10 years ago and was suspended one game early in a season? But let's dive a little deeper into this issue that you say you do not support cheating. Here is your quote from post 35 of this thread. "I'd rather stretch truths and get to the championship than lose in the round of 32." That, sir, is the same characteristic of a person that supports cheating. I am sorry to say here, but you seem to be a strong hypocrite when related to the visions and values offered by our head basketball coach. Listen to what "Treed" is saying and don't say anything, but just think about how your comments here relate. CMP is honest with his recruits when they are discussing playing for Purdue. If he was dishonest with any of them in the slightest and we ended up getting the players that like that, then we would have players that could not be trusted on the court and in society. Stretching truths doesn't guarantee anything except the truth was stretched. So the risk taken when doing that is much worse than the outcome. Aren't many on this board claiming that Archie is "stretching truths"? We can not burn the candle from both ends and be successful, especially more successful than we have been.
Stretching the truth is not cheating. See my last post to "Steel" where I outlined what I meant. I'm sure Archie is stretching truths, but I'm also sure what he is doing isn't illegal. I work in sales, so I stretch truths every day. You have to in order to win the deal.
This is a classic example of false equivalency!
"Everyone shows a lack of integrity at times"
What a load of absolute horse manure
"Everyone shows a lack of integrity at times"
What a load of absolute horse manure
I'd say he's doing a great job then.
Question do you really think painter is not selling the program. So you say lie to that kid just to get him there and when that kid gets there and all the promises and guarantees that coach made to that kid does not happen bcuz that will happen. I'm talking high level player you suggest he lie too but now that kid is there and everything that coach promised him it does not happen. 865 transfers suggest even with the high level players that sometimes that might not work for them. Marquees bolden at Duke was sold on all that he didn't play much and might not play much this season bcuz the overload of players they recruit. Have met painter in person have you talk to him in person or are you going off what people say about him. I met with him and many many more coaches and what sold me and my son he made no promises that he can't keep especially if that player don't turn out to be what the hype made that player out to be. Pay attention to this as the season goes on watch Kentucky, Arizona, Duke, Kansas watch how many of those all Americans be sitting the bench bcuz of the overload of players with same status that was told they will be the man not play not on minutes but may play out of position bcuz coaches will put you were they need you. You can stretch the truth to get high level recruit but to me it cud hurt the player and program if it don't work.
If that is what you do, then I will not address you again on this. I am assuming you are "young." Well I am old and I will assume old enough to be your father or grandfather. And I can honestly say that the older I got, the smarter my father got.
I'd rather have a coach who was honest and built a culture off that honesty rather than a coach who is known to lie to get his way. Just me as a person and who I want my university to have as the lead representatives of the sports I root for.
It is very likely that it wouldn't be lies at all. A 5* recruit coming to Purdue will almost always start and play starter minutes.
I am young. FWIW my father is a very successful salesman, who taught me everything I know about sales. I will trust his judgement over just about anyone. Thanks for the advice though.
As a HC at Purdue, Matt Painter is 265-141 for a win percentage of .653. Keady's was actually .647. Arguably, CMP has been a better HC than what many consider one of the greatest coaches in conference history.
Is Cal known to lie? Is Coach K known to lie? is Izzo known to lie? No, they aren't. Do all of these coaches stretch truths in recruiting? Yes they do. Painter could too and be just as respected as he is now.
The definition of 5* player, something I read about 6 years ago, is that they can be a very large contributor to a team right away. It doesn't mean that they start right away, or get the most shots. Just that they can be a significant contributor right away. To some that means starting and playing more minutes than the rest of the squad. But it has been demonstrated many times that many 5* players do not attain that. But the is more to this than starting and shooting the most and playing the most minutes. You have to go to class and remain eligible. You have to stay out of jail. And so on. It isn't all about basketball.
I think the bigger problem with your posts are that they come off very trollish. I don't disagree with everything you say, but the way you say it is wrong.
Before we accuse other coaches of cheating, we must admit we have also been cheaters as well in both the men's and women's basketball programs. There are reasons the NCAA has rules, and also reasons why certain coaches are no longer coaching at Purdue. While you may say those infractions were very small, you will have to admit those infractions were big enough to cost the coach their job, and "some" future coaching jobs and they were not made out of pure ignorance of the rules. A coach and others in other realms of life cannot use ignorance as an excuse for disobeying the rules/law.
I'm quite certain when we talk of other schools cheating, they will and probably have also pointed out those times we've cheated as well.
I'd like to believe Coach K and Izzo run a basically clean program. My son attended Coach K's camp. And admittedly Coach K has a little Bobby Knight in him and isn't the darling the media portrays him as.
When talking recruiting lies, the name Lane Kiffin always seems to cross my mind.
I'm quite certain when we talk of other schools cheating, they will and probably have also pointed out those times we've cheated as well.
I'd like to believe Coach K and Izzo run a basically clean program. My son attended Coach K's camp. And admittedly Coach K has a little Bobby Knight in him and isn't the darling the media portrays him as.
When talking recruiting lies, the name Lane Kiffin always seems to cross my mind.
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